applying to MD with a DO deferred admission?

[894rty]

I currently have an admission at a DO school. If I have my admission deferred to 2010, can I apply to MD schools this upcoming summer? My main purpose is to have something lined up that is more feasible financially than my current place of admission.

Here are my stats: 4.0/4.0 gpa, 32 MCAT, lots of ECs

I think the reason why I haven't had any MD admissions yet is because I applied in October. However, I've had 3 interviews so far (am waiting for a response on all three) and one more in April.

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[Bacchus]

Your reason for deferral?

 

[fahimaz7]

What schools did you apply to..... Wash U, Harvard, and Yale?

lol @ 4.0GPA and a 32 with no acceptances. Branch out and apply to more schools.

 

[DrWBD]

If you can get the deferral, and don't mind taking off a year, I'd say just do it.

Based on your numbers it doesn't sound like you'd have a tough time getting into a DO program the second time around from scratch anyway.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think you could defer admission. I wouldn't tell the DO program why you want to do it, though...they'll be understandably unhappy!

 

[LaTortuga]

I had a similar thought to Dragonfly's comment ... be sure that you don't end up screwing yourself over if you do get that deferral from your DO school and apply to MD programs. The MD program where I was accepted points out in big, plain terms that students may petition for 1 year medical deferral or deferral to pursue educational opportunities, however, if it is granted, the applicant must sign a contract and may not apply for admissions elsewhere during the year off.

Tread carefully, and make sure you know your school's policy regarding deferral and outside applications before taking the leap ... (that or be very sneaky).

Other than that ... take a good look at your application. Your numbers look great, and it sounds like you have EC's coming out your ears. Your application was complete late ... yet I know people who were complete very late, and still have gained admission this cycle. So make sure you are being honest about your chances of gaining MD admission before doing the deferral game. If they all said no ... maybe there is something more fundamental missing from your application? Sorry to be negative nelly ... I just want to make sure that you've covered all your bases.

Oh yea, if your don't get an acceptance from the places where you are waiting to hear back, be sure to call and ask for an exit interview or get feedback from the school regarding why you were not accepted. Might be something that you can easily fix.

Good Luck

 

[futIDdoc]

tread carefully my friend. Make sure you read the fine print on the conditions of your deferral. You should maybe even go as far as getting a legal opinion from someone qualified to give one. There is a good chance you are in violation if you apply to allo schools instead of taking the spot in the osteo school. Ask yourself why you used DO as a backup to an MD, then didnt want to go when your plans for an allo school fell through? if you really want to go to an allo school, be a man and just decline the DO school outright.

 

[sarahl86]

tread carefully my friend. Make sure you read the fine print on the conditions of your deferral. You should maybe even go as far as getting a legal opinion from someone qualified to give one. There is a good chance you are in violation if you apply to allo schools instead of taking the spot in the osteo school. Ask yourself why you used DO as a backup to an MD, then didnt want to go when your plans for an allo school fell through? if you really want to go to an allo school, be a man and just decline the DO school outright.

...yeah, I was wondering if you could even do that. I'd imagine that they would DEFINITELY stipulate that you can't apply to other medical schools while in deferral. I would just go and get your DO: get med school over with. You shouldn't have applied DO if you really didn't want it at the end of your name.

Money is an issue for everyone. I personally am considering military scholarships but either way, you'll be making money someday.

 

[Just Joshin]

Don't secondaries ask if you've ever been accepted to any other U.S. medical school? How do you plan to answer that question? It's not like you can say "yes, but I deferred to apply again".

 

[sarahl86]

Don't secondaries ask if you've ever been accepted to any other U.S. medical school? How do you plan to answer that question? It's not like you can say "yes, but I deferred to apply again".

Because DO schools don't count, remember? I wonder if anyone thought that would be a loop hole.

...kidding, btw. If it doesn't say it on AMCAS, then its definitely on secondaries.

 

[FreddieMercury]

Don't secondaries ask if you've ever been accepted to any other U.S. medical school? How do you plan to answer that question? It's not like you can say "yes, but I deferred to apply again".

I think they ask matriculated, which means you were accepted and actually enrolled.

 

[slick27]

Maybe if you get your application in eary, forward your previous year's letters of rec you might have the summer to still think about your choice. If you have interview offers by the end of july or august you could walk away from your DO school and place a bet on gaining a MD acceptance. But, I don't know if schools will offer interviews early enough for this to work.

 

[Just Joshin]

I think they ask matriculated, which means you were accepted and actually enrolled.

No you're wrong. They ask that on AMCAS, but on secondaries, they ask if you've ever been accepted to a med school.

 

[Just Joshin]

You are correct.

And you're wrong too.

 

[Law2Doc]

...I've heard of people deferring DO school acceptances to rapply MD. I think you can only not apply if you are holding another MD acceptance that's been deferred. i've seen it happen with a couple of people so that's why I can say this.

It totally depends on the terms of the deferral, which is a contract. There is no way you can make a blanket statement about this. In fact there is (or was) one allo med school that allowed you to defer and reapply, but most forbid it. I suspect most osteo places would forbid it as well. That you know of people who were allowed to do this doesn't suggest that all osteo school's deferrals work similarly.

Whether anyplace would enforce these contracts is unlikely, since they don't have much damages if they can satisfactorily fill the next year's class, but you do run a risk of making a bad name for yourself in a very small profession. Best not to start off like this from day 1.

 

[futIDdoc]

Law2doc comes through again! People just coming out of undergrad may not understand that when you sign a deferral agreement it is a CONTRACT. Non-trads, like me and I am assuming Law2doc, have been in 'the real world' (copyright MTV) and have had to deal with these sorts of things. It is sage advice that beginning your professional career by breaking a contract is probably not the best strategy. You never know who you might piss off

post script: Reversing the situation here. Could you imagine the fury raised if the school did not hold you deferment? That school would instantly lose all credibility with its applicants.

 

[futIDdoc]

I highly doubt that they have problems filling spots in this sorta situation because deferred spots usually go to someone else on the waitlist or someone else from the overacceptees. Then if they officially withdraw before starting the following year that spot too will get filled. Of course keep in mind, that most of the time such a handful of deferrals take place that they are hardly going to have a hard time filling their class.

This is completely besides the point. If you defer, you are under a contractual obligation to attend that school. If you do not attend and try to gain admissions elsewhere, you have broken a contract. Whether any you'll suffer any repercussions from your actions is debatable. If you have no moral objections to breaking promises and your willing to face any consequences, than go ahead and break that agreement.

 

[Law2Doc]

I highly doubt that they have problems filling spots in this sorta situation because deferred spots usually go to someone else on the waitlist or someone else from the overacceptees. Then if they officially withdraw before starting the following year that spot too will get filled. Of course keep in mind, that most of the time such a handful of deferrals take place that they are hardly going to have a hard time filling their class.

Agree with the prior poster. But also I'd point out that applicants are not fungible, and so by losing you in their subsequent class a school is losing someone they thought would be a good fit. The person they get to take that seat in the subsequent class might not be as good, and so understandably a program can feel burned when you break your contract. My point is that while it's unlikely to get enforced in court, it could ruffle feathers badly in a very small profession. You don't know who is friends with whom, and it's best not to break a contract, upset somebody influential and show your word is worth nothing, all before your first day of embarking on a new career. I mean, what's left for the second day?

 

[futIDdoc]

I've never applied DO. Does it specifically say that you can't do such if you have an acceptance to DO? From what I gathered from others this is not what I've seen. I've also seen from a few others that since they wre different application systems and not run by the same people, I've seen people have not necessarily been required to report the DO acceptance. But then again that is just what I saw in a few instances. I don't know how it works for each individual school's secondary or each individual DO school for that matter.

1st- From the acceptances I got (osteo and allo), the answer is you are legally bound to go to that school (like early decision applicants).

2nd- The two systems AACOMAS and AMCAS may not talk to each other, but you would be violating the spirit of the contract by not being completely forthcoming.

 

[slick27]

You also have to look at everything that comes with reapplying. You'll have to do something that will enhance your application from the following year. Get letters of rec. It is also getting competitive to get DO acceptances so you'll might not get into DO upon reapplication. Just reapplying MD won't get you an acceptance. You'll have to retake the mcat, get further research experience, more clinical, etc...Also waitlist opportunites from the previous year doesn't meand you'll get in the following year. I've found out that they usually don't consider the previous application for up comming applications.

 

[CrepesofWrath]

I would forget about reapplying. If money is the real reason: 1) MD programs on average tend to cost more than DO and 2) most schools are willing to work with students to arrange a stable financial arrangement. If you're reapplying because you don't think that a DO program is worth attending, I'd say forget about the reapply. Med school is med school, you're a doctor if you're either an MD or a DO, and DOs can make as much money as MDs. If MD admissions committees found out that you were applying after deferring a DO acceptance, you'd have a hard time explaining why in an interview.

Check mentor forums about this topic - they say something along these lines.

PS - Hope you heard some good news this week.

 

[rkaz]

All DO schools are private schools and therefore generally cost more then typical state schools.

I don't mean to lead this conversation astray, but not all DO schools are private - MSUCOM (Michigan) and UMDNJ-SOM (New Jersey) are two public DO schools that immediately come to mind, although there may be a few more.

Edit: Those 'few more' public DO schools also include: OU-COM (Ohio), OSU-COM (Oklahoma), WVSOM (West Virginia), TCOM (Texas). So at least 6 DO schools there.

 

[nlax30]

Not true to the bolded statement. Actually most public state schools are far more cheaper. All DO schools are private schools and therefore generally cost more then typical state schools.

Wrong.

Ohio Univ, TCOM, Michigan State, Oklahoma State, UMDNJ

 

[nlax30]

I don't mean to lead this conversation astray, but not all DO schools are private - MSUCOM (Michigan) and UMDNJ-SOM (New Jersey) are two public DO schools that immediately come to mind, although there may be a few more.

Edit: Those 'few more' public DO schools also include: OU-COM (Ohio), OSU-COM (Oklahoma), WVSOM (West Virginia), TCOM (Texas). So at least 6 DO schools there.

Haha, you beat me to it. I also left out WVSOM, oops.

 

[QofQuimica]

I currently have an admission at a DO school. If I have my admission deferred to 2010, can I apply to MD schools this upcoming summer? My main purpose is to have something lined up that is more feasible financially than my current place of admission.

Here are my stats: 4.0/4.0 gpa, 32 MCAT, lots of ECs

I think the reason why I haven't had any MD admissions yet is because I applied in October. However, I've had 3 interviews so far (am waiting for a response on all three) and one more in April.

Whether you *could* reapply with a deferral doesn't begin to address the real question here, which is whether you *should* reapply with a deferral. I think it's a bad idea for at least three reasons:

1) As others have already pointed out, it is unethical for you to do this unless the DO school's deferral policy permits it. Assuming they do not, whether you can get away with behaving unethically by breaking your contract misses the main point that you would be doing something you know is wrong.

2) Even if the DO school does permit you to defer and reapply, you will be wasting precious resources (time and money) to resend AMCAS, resubmit secondaries, and go on new interviews. I can think of very few reasons why it would be worth spending thousands of dollars and countless hours of time to reapply when you already have an acceptance.

3) What do you propose to do with your year off? Work? Consider that the economy is bad at the moment, and every day brings more news reports about companies laying people off. You may or may not be able to find a decent job. Take more classes? That will consume yet more of your money and time for very little return. Travel? Certainly a worthwhile endeavor, but it will be difficult financially and practically to apply to med school while you're globetrotting. Sit at home doing nothing? Well, you can do that for free and not waste any more time and money applying.

You have one acceptance in hand and are waiting to hear from three other schools. My advice would be to sit tight and see how things turn out. If you do not get accepted to any other schools over the next few months, then matriculate this summer at the one that has already accepted you. There is no way to become a doctor that does not entail making significant sacrifices in multiple areas of your life. Although it would be ideal to have the choice of going to a cheaper med school, if the ideal does not pan out, then you deal with the actual. Best of luck.

 

[dragonfly99]

Good advice from Q,
Although some of this depends on your career goals and specialty goals too (if you know them). Some fields are easier to get via the MD route.

I don't think it is really right to keep a deferred DO admission...I think you probably either need to just reapply to a boatload of MD schools next year (if you have a way to support yourself for the next year, and you don't want to go DO) or just take the DO admission if you get nothing else.

 

[binko]

nft

 

[slick27]

There are some ethical problems with this, but the applicant still has to do whats best for them. Just be prepared to lose the DO acceptance.

 

[Redpancreas]

Law2doc comes through again! People just coming out of undergrad may not understand that when you sign a deferral agreement it is a CONTRACT. Non-trads, like me and I am assuming Law2doc, have been in 'the real world' (copyright MTV) and have had to deal with these sorts of things. It is sage advice that beginning your professional career by breaking a contract is probably not the best strategy. You never know who you might piss off

post script: Reversing the situation here. Could you imagine the fury raised if the school did not hold you deferment? That school would instantly lose all credibility with its applicants.

What source are you getting this from? Could you maybe PM me a copy of a deferral contract?

 

[Medschoolornah]

end well this will not

 

[Goro]

Mods, please sticky!!!!

Someone in the pre-allo raised the same issue and here is what I said then

I am not going to cover all the 4 major areas that I feel this issues raises (ethical, legal, psychological, practical) but I will mention a few points.

***Ethical: The intent of applying to medical school is be accepted and attend. That is certainly held by adcoms across MD and DO. It would seem apparent to all involved in this thread the intent/plan here goes against that implied ethical design. It would seen that a blatant attempt to push ethical boundaries would be inappropriate some entering the field of medicine where ethics are highly valued.

***Legal: When you defer, you are signing an agreement that states you will not be seeking acceptance at another program. Most of those agreements are general enough that it will legally cover ANY other medical school or academic program. While it is unlikely you will be sued, it is most likely that DO school will notify AMCAS on this issue. But they are separate systems you say. AAMC and AACOM have been working together since 2000 towards what was originally called Physician2015. That project resulted in the MD/DO Residency Match merger. One of the reasons AACOMAS has recently upgraded their application system was to be able to more easily interface with AMCAS/AAMC. Both the formal networks, such as most DO schools have the National Acceptance Report, and the informal networks across schools, an applicant is taking a huge risk in doing the idea of the OP.

Well, once you are in MD school, there is no problem, right? Your minimum of 3 agreements (AMCAS, Secondary, Acceptance) have enough language to cover any unethical issues in applying up until when you are awarded your MD. A school can not only dismiss you at any point, the the federal government will sue you for civil fraud, where immediate payback of any loans, or at least in one case Federal Criminal Case for fraud against a dismissed student. Be interesting the story you had to tell your cellmate when they ask, "what are you in for?"

***Practical: As has been mentioned previously in the thread and as I advise students who have a desire to attend a specific set of schools is just apply to those schools on the first cycle. A year of working that that makes an applicant reconsider what he school he/she is willing to go to .

***Psychological: the need for the OP to have a "safety" spot for something he really doesnt want smacks of lack of confidence, a form of desperation to make sure he has a spot somewhere, and a somewhat devious thought pattern to get around the system. It really behooves the OP to examine weather he wants to be an actual physician or simply to have the letters "MD" after his name.

On a very personal note, I find the original poster's concept wholly unethical, devious and scamming at its core, and shows a lack of personal integrity and commitment. Would you want to be treated by a physician who shows these traits? If not, then why do something like that to become one.

 

[TheWorldWarrior]

TC you have the chance to achieve something that many will not get the opportunity to. DO/MD really makes no difference down the line. Don't defer; just accept it and work hard.

 

[Nysor_bttw]

Folks realize this is 6 years old, right?

 

[Grace184]

Yeah but it was referred back to and stickied by mods bc apparently this is some sort of conundrum for premeds

First world problems ...

 

[deleted480308]

if someone is so insecure that they can't handle their DO acceptance they don't need SDN application advice, they need mental health counseling

 

[jl lin]

But you do have those that may want to move into a competitive specialty...and there is that argument again, but to whatever degree, it is still a consideration for some. I'm looking forward to primary care, so it doesn't matter one iota to me.