Applying to med school in the UK with plan to work in UK (Canadian/UK citizen; Canadian resident)

[Mike32110]

Hey, I am requesting some somewhat specific information about applying to medical school in the UK. I have done a lot of research, but was looking for someone who may be in my less common situation. I was born in Scotland, and lived in England for several years before leaving the UK at ten years old. We grew up in Canada, and my family moved back to Scotland about 7-8 years ago, and live there permenantly. I am a dual citizen, and have the ability to get a UK passport. I was wondering if anyone has applied to a UK school from Canada/US as a UK citizen without residency. I am trying to see if there is anyway that I could be put into a different category. Right now, based on all my research, some guy from a random EU country such as Poland who has never even been to the UK would have admission preference and would pay much lower tuition, and this just doesn't seem right. I should also mention that I am likely NOT returning to North America, and would sell my home and move down with the goal of obtaining a UK residency match.

The only problem is that the 30k/year tuition would be tough to pull off (i'd have to sell my home, all my assets, and I would still likely need 50-100k extra) and the much lower wages for physicians in the UK would make it realistic that I would be paying off loans until I retired. Has anyone had any experience with this?

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[Medstart108]

Even though i'm not in your situation, I do have some working knowledge of how it works. I understand it isn't fair, but the reality is in order to qualify for EU tuition aka low tuition they look at first your citizenship but then where you have lived for the last 3 years.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/feesandfunding/fees/information/feestatus/
http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/fees-finance/fee-status

I just found this but generally they determine this by where you live. If you don't have the residency requirement, I'm pretty sure they will put you in the overseas fee status pool. The question is whether or not they will "reasses" you after 3 years. Oxford gave an example where if you were studying for a 4 year MMath they wouldn't reasses your fees normally after the 3rd year even though you could technically leave with a BSc. However, if lets say you finished the BSc and decided to apply to a MSc course they would reasses your fees. So basically, they will definitely reassess each time you apply for a program, but they may not in the middle of a program.

The unfortunate thing is that your family live in Scotland and presumably pay taxes there, if they are your immediate family it does seem a bit BS that you are forced to pay international fees while some Polish kid who has never paid a cent in British taxes will get subsidized by the Scottish government. I would ask, because if it really is your immediate family who live in Scotland you may be able to apply as a home student although I doubt it because they look at where you are normally resident in not your family.

Its also important to check both the Scottish policy and the British policy as your family is in Scotland, Scotland covers the entire cost of its medical schools and they may have a different policy compared to the RUK schools.

Go try studentroom.co.uk they might be able to give you a better idea, but there is no better than asking a university themselves to determine your fee status.

 

[Mike32110]

Even though i'm not in your situation, I do have some working knowledge of how it works. I understand it isn't fair, but the reality is in order to qualify for EU tuition aka low tuition they look at first your citizenship but then where you have lived for the last 3 years.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/feesandfunding/fees/information/feestatus/
http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/fees-finance/fee-status

I just found this but generally they determine this by where you live. If you don't have the residency requirement, I'm pretty sure they will put you in the overseas fee status pool. The question is whether or not they will "reasses" you after 3 years. Oxford gave an example where if you were studying for a 4 year MMath they wouldn't reasses your fees normally after the 3rd year even though you could technically leave with a BSc. However, if lets say you finished the BSc and decided to apply to a MSc course they would reasses your fees. So basically, they will definitely reassess each time you apply for a program, but they may not in the middle of a program.

The unfortunate thing is that your family live in Scotland and presumably pay taxes there, if they are your immediate family it does seem a bit BS that you are forced to pay international fees while some Polish kid who has never paid a cent in British taxes will get subsidized by the Scottish government. I would ask, because if it really is your immediate family who live in Scotland you may be able to apply as a home student although I doubt it because they look at where you are normally resident in not your family.

Its also important to check both the Scottish policy and the British policy as your family is in Scotland, Scotland covers the entire cost of its medical schools and they may have a different policy compared to the RUK schools.

Go try studentroom.co.uk they might be able to give you a better idea, but there is no better than asking a university themselves to determine your fee status.

Thanks for all the info, really helpful! I think I should enquire about the possiblity of doing it in two phases as many schools do 3 years leading to a Bachelors in Med, the 3 more years which is mostly clinical leading to the MD; Iknow some poeple do change programs within this period, so it COULD be a technicality. However, I also remember reading that they do NOT consider F/T education as establashing residency, therefore preventing this loophole.

 

[Medstart108]

Thanks for all the info, really helpful! I think I should enquire about the possiblity of doing it in two phases as many schools do 3 years leading to a Bachelors in Med, the 3 more years which is mostly clinical leading to the MD; Iknow some poeple do change programs within this period, so it COULD be a technicality. However, I also remember reading that they do NOT consider F/T education as establashing residency, therefore preventing this loophole.

Yeah I read that as well, but they also said that they reassess fee status when you apply for a different program. Don't know how fee status would change unless they considered "education" years.

 

[Mike32110]

Okay good to know. Generally, do you think it's a good idea to apply to UK schools? Here's some other info:

I have essentially missed the deadlines for all applications for 2015, except for in the UK, as I could not realistically study for the MCAT by the August cutoff. I also have a very strong psych background, and would wait until March to write the new MCAT as this would benefit me greatly. My plan right now is this: Write the UKCAT next month as it really cannot be studied for, and is almost like an IQ test. I tend to do really well on the practice exams, and I feel that having 7 years of university would help me outperform against mostly high-school students who I would be competing with in the curve. I am ASSUMING, that my UKCAT mark would be in the top 10-30%, but who knows really. My plan would be to apply to 4 UK schools (limited by UCAS), mostly to Scotland; my brother just started going to school in the UK, and my mom said that they place a huge emphasis on your personal statement. If I were to emphasize that I grew up in the UK and am a UK citizen with family living in Aberdeen, it may work to my benefit. In addition, my mom has been sick with cancer over the last two years, so I would love to live in Scotland so I could see her more frequently, and I don't think mentioning this in my personal statement would hurt. I would also apply to Ireland schools as backups (5 year programs without MCAT requirament). I would know about interviews by December, and that would largely dictate my pace for studying for the MCATs (e.g 0-2 interviews, full time MCAT studying; 3+ interviews, more focusing on working and saving). I would know about acceptance by March, and if I did not get accepted to any UK/Ireland schools, then I would study like crazy for the new MCAT to write over the summer, then the following fall I would apply for the 2016 admissions for my two schools in my province, a few US schools, a few Australian schools, and once again another round of UK admissions (rewriting the UKCAT if necessary) with the order of preferenec being Canadian, US, UK, Australia, Ireland; if I did not get into anything that year, I would continue my career as a Nurse in Canada and give up on applying (as I am 27 this year, I am not going to apply to med school in my 30's!).

Does this seem like a pretty fair idea/plan? I figure it makes sense to try to the UK/Ireland schools for this year as i still am within the deadline, and although they would be 5 years, I would still graduate the same as a 4 year program in 2016. Any thoughts (reminder, cGPA 3.4,degree in Nursing and BSc in Psych)?

 

[Medstart108]

Okay good to know. Generally, do you think it's a good idea to apply to UK schools? Here's some other info:

I have essentially missed the deadlines for all applications for 2015, except for in the UK, as I could not realistically study for the MCAT by the August cutoff. I also have a very strong psych background, and would wait until March to write the new MCAT as this would benefit me greatly. My plan right now is this: Write the UKCAT next month as it really cannot be studied for, and is almost like an IQ test. I tend to do really well on the practice exams, and I feel that having 7 years of university would help me outperform against mostly high-school students who I would be competing with in the curve. I am ASSUMING, that my UKCAT mark would be in the top 10-30%, but who knows really. My plan would be to apply to 4 UK schools (limited by UCAS), mostly to Scotland; my brother just started going to school in the UK, and my mom said that they place a huge emphasis on your personal statement. If I were to emphasize that I grew up in the UK and am a UK citizen with family living in Aberdeen, it may work to my benefit. In addition, my mom has been sick with cancer over the last two years, so I would love to live in Scotland so I could see her more frequently, and I don't think mentioning this in my personal statement would hurt. I would also apply to Ireland schools as backups (5 year programs without MCAT requirament). I would know about interviews by December, and that would largely dictate my pace for studying for the MCATs (e.g 0-2 interviews, full time MCAT studying; 3+ interviews, more focusing on working and saving). I would know about acceptance by March, and if I did not get accepted to any UK/Ireland schools, then I would study like crazy for the new MCAT to write over the summer, then the following fall I would apply for the 2016 admissions for my two schools in my province, a few US schools, a few Australian schools, and once again another round of UK admissions (rewriting the UKCAT if necessary) with the order of preferenec being Canadian, US, UK, Australia, Ireland; if I did not get into anything that year, I would continue my career as a Nurse in Canada and give up on applying (as I am 27 this year, I am not going to apply to med school in my 30's!).

Does this seem like a pretty fair idea/plan? I figure it makes sense to try to the UK/Ireland schools for this year as i still am within the deadline, and although they would be 5 years, I would still graduate the same as a 4 year program in 2016. Any thoughts (reminder, cGPA 3.4,degree in Nursing and BSc in Psych)?

Sounds fair, with a 3.4 GPA consider applying to the undergraduate 5 year program as the GEM programs tend to be quite a bit more competitive. Avoid Edinburgh if you won't have the MCAT since they seem to only consider the MCAT for grad applicants. Otherwise your plan looks good, good luck!

 

[Mike32110]

Thanks, that's what I was planning on doing. I am going to spend a lot of time reading over every single UK medical school to find the one that will give me the best chance of acceptance (e.g minimum GPA requirament met, but less GPA emphasis, more UKCAT emphasis, and more work experience emphasis). Any recommendations?

 

[Medstart108]

I know that Newcastle has a big emphasis on the UKCAT, apart from that the Scottish schools tend to care less about the UKCAT most will have the UKCAT equal about 15-20% of the application. A few schools don't look at the UKCAT at all so avoid those like Birmingham. Honestly, I've forgotten a good chunk of this information so it is definitely better for you to look it up.

 

[Mike32110]

Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate it!