Applying to Med school with a specific criminal history?

[j_diggity]

I’m attending a Postbac right now and am doing very well in my Chem and Physics classes, all A’s so far. I’ve gotten worried though that I won’t be able to get into med school or residency with my criminal background. Can you help me out?

More info about my case: I have two charges on my record, a misdemeanor for DUI Cannabis and a possession of drug paraphernalia. They are both ~10 years old. I have to disclose them because they cannot be expunged, even though only one is a conviction. I’ve grown up a lot since then; I don’t smoke weed anymore and have no intention of ever doing drugs again.

I met with one private advisor who told me that I have a very slim-to-none chance of getting accepted, but n=1 there and they based this information off of their spouse who works on the adcom at a top medical school (think Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford). However, I once asked here on SDN and some of the adcoms said I should be totally fine, but at that time I actually thought I could expunge the more recent charge, so they were maybe going off of that information. I don’t know what to think, and my own internal bias is to believe that I can achieve anything if I work hard to overcome it, but I need to be honest with myself about my prospects here.

I come from a low SES background and I can’t afford to go $100k in debt for this Postbac only to get rejected everywhere. If I can’t do it, then I would like to know so that I can go to community college and pursue research or the nursing route with way less debt. Ive checked with several lawyers that tell me I will be able to get licensed to practice medicine or nursing; the issue is whether any medical schools will accept me. I’m performing at the top of my class and I have a real passion for science and patient care, and I deeply want to be a physician.

I want people to be honest: am I setting myself up for failure by applying for medical school?

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[jamaica jan sun princess]

I can't speak to the legal issues, but there are post-bac programs that allow you to work as a graduate teaching assistant in exchange for tuition and a stipend.

 

[LizzyM]

Check out what has to be reported on the AMCAS application based on where you reside (not where you did the crime). (starts on page 24 https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/5186/download). You might want to consider relocating if all else fails.

New Hampshire or Nevada might be a good place to settle down (there are others, too).

 

[Moko]

I agree with @gonnif , if the full extent of your violations is possessing and smoking marijuana, I don't think that this will adversely affect your application. Be sure to avoid any further misdemeanors and violations.

 

[YCAGA]

Since the stuff as a minor will not be disclosed, it is just a bag of weed. Possession of marijuana is literally the least serious misdemeanor offense in the scheme of medical school admissions. I guess 18-20 y.o. in possession of alcohol is even less serious, but that is a civil infraction in many states.

Honestly I would be more concerned about moving violations like speeding to the point of getting a reckless driving charge than possession of weed. I know of at least one school who auto-rejects for reckless driving charges within X years because of the disregard for other people it shows...quite the opposite of what you want in a physician. Smoking weed on your couch and eating chips on the other hand does not put anyone in danger.

Using weed in an illegal state is not perfect judgement, but no one expects you to be perfect. It was also 7 years ago.

Keep grinding in your post-bacc and I think you will be fine! 🙂

 

[j_diggity]

1) the pleading guilty at in 2009 at 17 does not, repeat, does need to be reported as you were a juvenile
2) the one in 2014 when you were 22 is for possession for weed is in many places not even a crime anymore. I would consider this minor and unlikely to affect you application that much
3) I have worked with nontraditional, atypical, reapplicant, and problematic applicants for many years. This criminal record is not a reason to give up on medical school
4) Why are you spending $100K on a PB? give us your academic background, SES background, and plans and lets see what we can do

Thank you so much for the response!! So I was looking at the fine print that LizzyM posted (thank you as well) - I was adjudicated as an adult, so I do think I would have to disclose it. I’ll post more later in response to your 4th point but wanted to get this part out there now.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would be wary of taking advice from this “advisor.”

Was his comment on slim to none chances in regards to your overall application or just because of the previous charges? I mean statistically speaking, all applicants have a slim chance of getting into Harvard, Jhu, Stanford etc.

If it makes you feel better, I was told that my app would be DOA due to something more severe (and more recent) and just got a tenth interview this AM. Nobody actually knows your chances so don’t let the advisors words discourage or demotivate you from controlling the aspects of your application that you can control.

It’s impossible to change the past, so focus on the present and prepare for the future.

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you so much for the response!! So I was looking at the fine print that LizzyM posted (thank you as well) - I was adjudicated as an adult, so I do think I would have to disclose it. I’ll post more later in response to your 4th point but wanted to get this part out there now.

Look at that AMCAS page 24 and onward. Some states laws prohibit asking about ANYTHING of this sort that happened more than 7 years ago, whether you were a minor or an adult.

 

[YCAGA]

Look at that AMCAS page 24 and onward. Some states laws prohibit asking about ANYTHING of this sort that happened more than 7 years ago, whether you were a minor or an adult.

Exactly. To put into further perspective how important time away from less than perfect behavior is here is an interesting fact: to get a federal secret clearance, many, many of the questions on Form SF86 are limited to "within the past 7 years?"...that phrase is even bolded on the form lol. This applies to not only drug use, but drug sales and distribution! Now of course getting a secret and TS is a wholistic process with the FBI interviewing your references, so you can't just waltz in as a reformed Pablo Escobar.

But my point is that even the feds, who are notoriously anti-drug (1 joint was fine for alphabet soup agencies but 2 was way too much!), have realized that young people are not perfect, and that a lot of very reasonable, smart people used weed at some point in the past. They have also adopted that view in terms of mental health, at least if we take SF86 as a sign.

Now the kind of stuff the feds will not overlook if it was more than 7 years ago...

29.3: Have you EVER advocated any acts of terrorism or activities designed to overthrow the U.S. Government by force?

 

[Styrene]

I’m attending a Postbac right now and am doing very well in my Chem and Physics classes, all A’s so far. I’ve gotten worried though that I won’t be able to get into med school or residency with my criminal background. Can you help me out?

More info about my case: I have two charges on my record. One is from 2009 when I was 17 and is a misdemeanor for DUI Cannabis. It’s not a conviction but I pled guilty and I cannot expunge or seal it at all. The other is from 2014 and is a misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia (a bag of marijuana). This one is a conviction and the chances are very low that any kind of expunction is available. This is due to the laws in that state. I’ve grown up a lot since then; I don’t smoke weed anymore and have no intention of ever doing drugs again.

I met with one private advisor who told me that I have a very slim-to-none chance of getting accepted, but n=1 there and they based this information off of their spouse who works on the adcom at a top medical school (think Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford). However, I once asked here on SDN and some of the adcoms said I should be totally fine, but at that time I actually thought I could expunge the more recent charge, so they were maybe going off of that information. I don’t know what to think, and my own internal bias is to believe that I can achieve anything, but I need to be honest with myself so that I don’t end up old and destitute.

I come from a low SES background and I can’t afford to go $100k in debt for this Postbac only to get rejected everywhere. If I can’t do it, then I would like to know so that I can go to community college and pursue research or the nursing route with way less debt. Ive checked with several lawyers that tell me I will be able to get licensed to practice medicine or nursing; the issue is whether any medical schools will accept me. I’m performing at the top of my class and I have a real passion for science and patient care, and I deeply want to be a physician.

I want people to be honest: am I setting myself up for failure by applying for medical school?

You will be fine as long as you give it 100% effort and put it all out there. This comes from my own experience with a DWI six years before medical school and seven WFs and five Ws on my AMCAS transcript from when I signed up for college classes and never went. I actually almost died in a drunk driving accident, hit a wall going 60. Woke up in the hospital three days later, pulmonary contusions, broken ankle, severe concussion, Foley catheter, all that stuff. Got three years of probation and no license for few years also. Reinvented myself through sobriety (now almost 11 years) and started over at the local community college taking the train and bus to school. Went on to earn 38 As in a row, 99%ile MCAT, research, volunteer, clinical experience, gap year as scribe, etc. Applied to 40-50 med schools (don't remember exact number), three interviews, two acceptances, went to realistic dream school.

It was like my hidden past, and I was ashamed of it. Many work colleagues were shocked when I told them I had only three interviews. I said it was just bad luck. The funny thing is, the school where I ended up going was the one that gave a secondary essay prompt about a hurdle in life that was overcome. I randomly decided to put it all out there and wrote about my story of starting over at community college. The story is that I had to go to mandated substance treatment as part of sentencing, and on the other side of the treatment place was a community college satellite campus. One day I stumbled across it, remembered my lost dream of medical school, and signed up for classes. At the time, it was the only way I could think of to boost my self-esteem just a little bit. I was always smart, so I figured I could actually do well in school. In my first few months of sobriety, one of my best friends committed suicide, so I knew life is short, and I had one more chance, and I'd be the best version of myself for him, for my family. I taught myself about the whole process using SDN (thank you, really). That's what I wrote about on the serendipitous secondary--just the truth of my crazy personal struggle. I was accepted there.

Found the perfect specialty for me, psychiatry, in med school, and now PGY-2. Still can't believe this worked out for me, but if it can for me, it can for most. Too bad my father didn't get to see me graduate from med school. That was a big part of my dream. He died suddenly a few weeks before my graduation. So here's to my dad and all the aspiring med students who screwed up really bad in the past. Keep moving forward.

 

[j_diggity]

1) the pleading guilty at in 2009 at 17 does not, repeat, does need to be reported as you were a juvenile
2) the one in 2014 when you were 22 is for possession for weed is in many places not even a crime anymore. I would consider this minor and unlikely to affect you application that much
3) I have worked with nontraditional, atypical, reapplicant, and problematic applicants for many years. This criminal record is not a reason to give up on medical school
4) Why are you spending $100K on a PB? give us your academic background, SES background, and plans and lets see what we can do

Alright so now responding to #4. Thanks again for your time. The postbac isn’t 100k but that’s how much I will owe when I’m done - undergrad I have about $30k and the postbac + COL will be around $65k. If I end up not going to med school and do nursing or something instead, it will be pretty hard if not impossible to make those $1k+/mo payments. I’m not sure what I could do to reduce the cost of the PB; I could go to a state school but I’m currently not considered in state resident until next fall, and the out of state tuition is about the same as I’m paying now. I could try for a better job but I couldn’t balance working full time with my PB. I’m open to ideas.

My SES: grew up in public housing, raised by a single mom, dad paid child support but it didn’t keep us out of poverty. Had the power shut off many many times and had even the water shut off a few times. Regularly went hungry, it was common to open the fridge and see nothing but ketchup and mustard. We were on food stamps and relied on donations for a lot of things like clothes, winter coats, etc. Got involved with the wrong crowd (easy to do when growing up in my neighborhood). Basically the DUI was the best thing that ever happened to me; I’d never have gone to college if it hadn’t shook me out of complacency. Things have looked up for me since college. I became a software engineer and had that as a career for about 6 years, and that leads me to where I am today.

My plans are to become a doctor. I’m thinking psychiatry because I have family experiences that relate to psych, also interested in EM. I'm completely open-minded, though. I have also really been loving my chemistry lab and could totally see myself doing lab-based research/medicine, so maybe that looks like immunology or genetics, I don’t know, but I think an MD-PhD is not my lane due to my age and financial situation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

[j_diggity]

You will be fine as long as you give it 100% effort and put it all out there. This comes from my own experience with a DWI six years before medical school and seven WFs and five Ws on my AMCAS transcript from when I signed up for college classes and never went. I actually almost died in a drunk driving accident, hit a wall going 60. Woke up in the hospital three days later, pulmonary contusions, broken ankle, severe concussion, Foley catheter, all that stuff. Got three years of probation and no license for few years also. Reinvented myself through sobriety (now almost 11 years) and started over at the local community college taking the train and bus to school. Went on to earn 38 As in a row, 99%ile MCAT, research, volunteer, clinical experience, gap year as scribe, etc. Applied to 40-50 med schools (don't remember exact number), three interviews, two acceptances, went to realistic dream school.

It was like my hidden past, and I was ashamed of it. Many work colleagues were shocked when I told them I had only three interviews. I said it was just bad luck. The funny thing is, the school where I ended up going was the one that gave a secondary essay prompt about a hurdle in life that was overcome. I randomly decided to put it all out there and wrote about my story of starting over at community college. The story is that I had to go to mandated substance treatment as part of sentencing, and on the other side of the treatment place was a community college satellite campus. One day I stumbled across it, remembered my lost dream of medical school, and signed up for classes. At the time, it was the only way I could think of to boost my self-esteem just a little bit. I was always smart, so I figured I could actually do well in school. In my first few months of sobriety, one of my best friends committed suicide, so I knew life is short, and I had one more chance, and I'd be the best version of myself for him, for my family. I taught myself about the whole process using SDN (thank you, really). That's what I wrote about--just the truth of my crazy personal struggle. I was accepted there.

Found the perfect specialty for me, psychiatry, in med school, and now PGY-2. Still can't believe this worked out for me, but if it can for me, it can for most. Too bad my father didn't get to see me graduate from med school. That was a big part of my dream. He died suddenly a few weeks before my graduation. So here's to my dad and all the aspiring med students who screwed up really bad in the past. Don't give up.

This is an awesome story of redemption, thank you so much for sharing this. I feel like I know a lot of people who had your story but without the redemption part, just from growing up where and how I did. Awesome story man. Good choice going psych btw, I love psych.

 

[Styrene]

Alright so now responding to #4. Thanks again for your time. The postbac isn’t 100k but that’s how much I will owe when I’m done - undergrad I have about $30k and the postbac + COL will be around $65k. If I end up not going to med school and do nursing or something instead, it will be pretty hard if not impossible to make those $1k+/mo payments. I’m not sure what I could do to reduce the cost of the PB; I could go to a state school but I’m currently not considered in state resident until next fall, and the out of state tuition is about the same as I’m paying now. I could try for a better job but I couldn’t balance working full time with my PB. I’m open to ideas.

My SES: grew up in public housing, raised by a single mom, dad paid child support but it didn’t keep us out of poverty. Had the power shut off many many times and had even the water shut off a few times. Regularly went hungry, it was common to open the fridge and see nothing but ketchup and mustard. We were on food stamps and relied on donations for a lot of things like clothes, winter coats, etc. Got involved with the wrong crowd (easy to do when growing up in my neighborhood). Basically the DUI was the best thing that ever happened to me; I’d never have gone to college if it hadn’t shook me out of complacency. Things have looked up for me since college. I became a software engineer and had that as a career for about 6 years, and that leads me to where I am today.

My plans are to become a doctor. I’m thinking psychiatry because I have personal experiences that relate to psych (I have high-func. ASD), also interested in radiology. I have also really been loving the hell out my chemistry lab and could totally see myself doing lab-based research/medicine, so maybe that looks like immunology or genetics, I don’t know, but I think an MD-PhD is not my lane due to my age and financial situation.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

That's a good story. Utilize it.

 

[Styrene]

This is an awesome story of redemption, thank you so much for sharing this. I feel like I know a lot of people who had your story but without the redemption part, just from growing up where and how I did. Awesome story man. Good choice going psych btw, I love psych.

Thank you. I got lucky in some ways. But man those first few years sober were tough. I also had severe social anxiety, fear of public speaking, etc. First things I signed up for? Public speaking class and orientation leader/peer advisor program. Those fears are long gone. I have a huge tolerance for frustration and suffering now. Resilience is a great thing to learn before med school and residency.

 

[Goro]

I’m attending a Postbac right now and am doing very well in my Chem and Physics classes, all A’s so far. I’ve gotten worried though that I won’t be able to get into med school or residency with my criminal background. Can you help me out?

More info about my case: I have two charges on my record. One is from 2009 when I was 17 and is a misdemeanor for DUI Cannabis. It’s not a conviction but I pled guilty and I cannot expunge or seal it at all. The other is from 2014 and is a misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia (a bag of marijuana). This one is a conviction and the chances are very low that any kind of expunction is available. This is due to the laws in that state. I’ve grown up a lot since then; I don’t smoke weed anymore and have no intention of ever doing drugs again.

I met with one private advisor who told me that I have a very slim-to-none chance of getting accepted, but n=1 there and they based this information off of their spouse who works on the adcom at a top medical school (think Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford). However, I once asked here on SDN and some of the adcoms said I should be totally fine, but at that time I actually thought I could expunge the more recent charge, so they were maybe going off of that information. I don’t know what to think, and my own internal bias is to believe that I can achieve anything, but I need to be honest with myself so that I don’t end up old and destitute.

I come from a low SES background and I can’t afford to go $100k in debt for this Postbac only to get rejected everywhere. If I can’t do it, then I would like to know so that I can go to community college and pursue research or the nursing route with way less debt. Ive checked with several lawyers that tell me I will be able to get licensed to practice medicine or nursing; the issue is whether any medical schools will accept me. I’m performing at the top of my class and I have a real passion for science and patient care, and I deeply want to be a physician.

I want people to be honest: am I setting myself up for failure by applying for medical school?

I'm not happy about the second conviction, it says that you didn't learn your lessons. BUT, I'm more interested in the you of now than the you of then, so I think you'll be OK.

$100K for a post-bac???? You got robbed. You could have done one DIY for a lot less. At least, is there any linkage for you program with some med school(s)???

 

[j_diggity]

I'm not happy about the second conviction, it says that you didn't learn your lessons. BUT, I'm more interested in the you of now than the you of then, so I think you'll be OK.

$100K for a post-bac???? You got robbed. You could have done one DIY for a lot less. At least, is there any linkage for you program with some med school(s)???

Yeah, the second charge is what I'd be most worried about; that's what the private advisor said as well.

My program does have linkages - not sure if any would be willing to overlook the charges.

 

[MDMechEngr]

Exactly. To put into further perspective how important time away from less than perfect behavior is here is an interesting fact: to get a federal secret clearance, many, many of the questions on Form SF86 are limited to "within the past 7 years?"...that phrase is even bolded on the form lol. This applies to not only drug use, but drug sales and distribution! Now of course getting a secret and TS is a wholistic process with the FBI interviewing your references, so you can't just waltz in as a reformed Pablo Escobar.

But my point is that even the feds, who are notoriously anti-drug (1 joint was fine for alphabet soup agencies but 2 was way too much!), have realized that young people are not perfect, and that a lot of very reasonable, smart people used weed at some point in the past. They have also adopted that view in terms of mental health, at least if we take SF86 as a sign.

Now the kind of stuff the feds will not overlook if it was more than 7 years ago...

also if you every injured or killed anyone while operating a vehicle under the influence, you are essentially SCREWED.

 

[j_diggity]

You were under 18 and therefore a juvenile by definition for purposes of AMCAS. Whether or not you were processed as an adult in your state’s system is irrelevant to this

Ah, I think I see what you mean now. I was understanding this phrase in the manual:

> excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile,

To mean anything where I was treated as a juvenile by the court. You are interpreting it to mean any adjudication that occurred when the applicant was a juvenile. I guess there could be some uncertainty there, but I would feel better disclosing it. I don't want anything to come back to bite me. One of my mentors told me that honesty and trust are two of his highest values in medical trainees, and if I didn't disclose this he would not be able to trust me. Reflecting on that, I agree completely with him and I would feel the same in his shoes. I would rather disclose and be up front.

 

[Browns99]

Since the stuff as a minor will not be disclosed, it is just a bag of weed. Possession of marijuana is literally the least serious misdemeanor offense in the scheme of medical school admissions. I guess 18-20 y.o. in possession of alcohol is even less serious, but that is a civil infraction in many states.

Honestly I would be more concerned about moving violations like speeding to the point of getting a reckless driving charge than possession of weed. I know of at least one school who auto-rejects for reckless driving charges within X years because of the disregard for other people it shows...quite the opposite of what you want in a physician. Smoking weed on your couch and eating chips on the other hand does not put anyone in danger.

Using weed in an illegal state is not perfect judgement, but no one expects you to be perfect. It was also 7 years ago.

Keep grinding in your post-bacc and I think you will be fine! 🙂

Didn't the OP say it was a DUI cannibas as I assume that to mean driving under the influence---marihuana?

Either way, I would speak to an attorney and see what if any disclosure would be required based on how a question is asked, conviction vs arrest, juvenile vs adult...DUI, etc. It is critical as to how you answer questions. Dishonesty will get the app canned sooner than a minor criminal infraction. This is why I say, seek legal/adcom advice.

I do agree with some of these comments that say the small amount of marihuana will likely not be a huge red flag, but I am concerned about the DUI and again, how you answer the questions.

 

[jhmmd]

I’m attending a Postbac right now and am doing very well in my Chem and Physics classes, all A’s so far. I’ve gotten worried though that I won’t be able to get into med school or residency with my criminal background. Can you help me out?

More info about my case: I have two charges on my record. One is from 2009 when I was 17 and is a misdemeanor for DUI Cannabis. It’s not a conviction but I pled guilty and I cannot expunge or seal it at all. The other is from 2014 and is a misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia (a bag of marijuana). This one is a conviction and the chances are very low that any kind of expunction is available. This is due to the laws in that state. I’ve grown up a lot since then; I don’t smoke weed anymore and have no intention of ever doing drugs again.

I met with one private advisor who told me that I have a very slim-to-none chance of getting accepted, but n=1 there and they based this information off of their spouse who works on the adcom at a top medical school (think Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford). However, I once asked here on SDN and some of the adcoms said I should be totally fine, but at that time I actually thought I could expunge the more recent charge, so they were maybe going off of that information. I don’t know what to think, and my own internal bias is to believe that I can achieve anything, but I need to be honest with myself so that I don’t end up old and destitute.

I come from a low SES background and I can’t afford to go $100k in debt for this Postbac only to get rejected everywhere. If I can’t do it, then I would like to know so that I can go to community college and pursue research or the nursing route with way less debt. Ive checked with several lawyers that tell me I will be able to get licensed to practice medicine or nursing; the issue is whether any medical schools will accept me. I’m performing at the top of my class and I have a real passion for science and patient care, and I deeply want to be a physician.

I want people to be honest: am I setting myself up for failure by applying for medical school?

Agree w/Goro that the second infraction shows that you didn't learn your lesson. Some people will tell you whatever you want to hear--YOU need to make the decision at the end of the day if this route is best for you.

That being said, is there a less expensive post-bacc route? You don't nec. need to spend lots of money on a post-bacc; DIY is fine as long as most courses are at a four year brick-and-mortar university.

How far along are you in this post-bacc? Just chem and physics? Maybe you could take the rest in DIY format. Halfway through, take a practice MCAT and see how you score. All of the good grades in the world won't make up for a bad MCAT--you need both to get past the cursory screening.

Come back here after you have taken your first practice MCAT/beefed up your app with ECs and stuff and maybe we can help you further. Good luck.

 

[Browns99]

You were under 18 and therefore a juvenile by definition for purposes of AMCAS. Whether or not you were processed as an adult in your state’s system is irrelevant to this

To say it is "irrelevant" may or may not be true (probably not- if you committed murder at 17, would you say that is irrelevant because you were a juvenile?) , but to to provide that advice and potentially have someone answer a question the wrong way may not be sound advice and could have a huge impact on the application.

To the OP, as I said earlier, consult with an attorney (not about licensing requirements, more about the app and possibly expungement, albeit as you say chances are low) before you decide to move forward.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

probably not- if you committed murder at 17, would you say that is irrelevant because you were a juvenile?

For amcas purposes, yes. If you were adjudicated for murder as a juvenile, you are not required to disclose it, so it’s irrelevant to your application.

 

[jhmmd]

For amcas purposes, yes. If you were adjudicated for murder as a juvenile, you are not required to disclose it, so it’s irrelevant to your application.

Then again murder is a felony and rarely adjucated

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Then again murder is a felony and rarely adjucated

Yeah. But it does happen.

 

[jhmmd]

Yeah. But it does happen.

Of this I am aware

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Of this I am aware

O rly?

 

[YCAGA]

Didn't the OP say it was a DUI cannibas as I assume that to mean driving under the influence---marihuana?

Either way, I would speak to an attorney and see what if any disclosure would be required based on how a question is asked, conviction vs arrest, juvenile vs adult...DUI, etc. It is critical as to how you answer questions. Dishonesty will get the app canned sooner than a minor criminal infraction. This is why I say, seek legal/adcom advice.

I do agree with some of these comments that say the small amount of marihuana will likely not be a huge red flag, but I am concerned about the DUI and again, how you answer the questions.

The DUI was when OP was 17, so it won't be on AMCAS.

I am kinda confused with your whole comment/if you even read the thread. You are saying that OP should ask adcoms, which he did in this threed and already got replies from them, and to talk to a lawyer about the stuff as a minor, which OP also did.

 

[Browns99]

The DUI was when OP was 17, so it won't be on AMCAS.

I am kinda confused with your whole comment/if you even read the thread. You are saying that OP should ask adcoms, which he did in this threed and already got replies from them, and to talk to a lawyer about the stuff as a minor, which OP also did.

He or she said they spoke to attorneys, presumably about licensing, since the OP said that attorneys said he could get licensed as a dr/nurse, that is totally different than applying to med school, op even notes "the issue is whether any medical schools will accept me", sounds like the attorneys did not provide advice on that. In addition, OP asked on this forum and several adcoms commented, surely that does not sound like the OP directly spoke to any adcom, so not quite sure what you actually read, that is unless you believe everything you read here to be gospel, certainly I do not.

"Ive checked with several lawyers that tell me I will be able to get licensed to practice medicine"

Sorry, but you apparently did not read the thread or did not comprehend what the OP said.

 

[YCAGA]

He or she said they spoke to attorneys, presumably about licensing, since the OP said that attorneys said he could get licensed as a dr/nurse, that is totally different than applying to med school, op even notes "the issue is whether any medical schools will accept me", sounds like the attorneys did not provide advice on that. In addition, OP asked on this forum and several adcoms commented, surely that does not sound like the OP directly spoke to any adcom, so not quite sure what you actually read, that is unless you believe everything you read here to be gospel, certainly I do not.

"Ive checked with several lawyers that tell me I will be able to get licensed to practice medicine"

Sorry, but you apparently did not read the thread or did not comprehend what the OP said.

Lawyers are not involved when applying to medical school so I’m not sure what else OP needs discuss with a lawyer other than licensing. The AMCAS guide gives very specific instructions on what you do not have to disclose in terms of criminal background, including state specific guidance for stuff that has been mentioned in this thread.

 

[YCAGA]

@j_diggity

"You must indicate if you have ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a misdemeanor crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) any convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court, or (3) any misdemeanor convictions for which you completed any probation and for which the court dismissed the case (in states where applicable). You need not disclose any instance in which you were:
• Arrested but not charged.
• Arrested and charged, with the charges dropped.
• Arrested and charged but found not guilty by a judge or jury.
• Arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, with the conviction overturned on appeal.
• Arrested and found guilty but received an executive pardon."

From page 24 of the 2021 AMCAS guide https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/5186/download

After reading that, I am confused why adcoms are saying the DUI does not have to be disclosed because you are 17. Like you said in a previous post, if you were charged as an adult, you will need to disclose it unless it falls under one of the other exceptions. Those exceptions sound like they might be relevant though since you said it was NOT a conviction, which could maybe full under (3) in the above quote or the second bullet point.

 

[jhmmd]

@j_diggity

"You must indicate if you have ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a misdemeanor crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) any convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court, or (3) any misdemeanor convictions for which you completed any probation and for which the court dismissed the case (in states where applicable). You need not disclose any instance in which you were:
• Arrested but not charged.
• Arrested and charged, with the charges dropped.
• Arrested and charged but found not guilty by a judge or jury.
• Arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, with the conviction overturned on appeal.
• Arrested and found guilty but received an executive pardon."

From page 24 of the 2021 AMCAS guide https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/5186/download

After reading that, I am confused why adcoms are saying the DUI does not have to be disclosed because you are 17. Like you said in a previous post, if you were charged as an adult, you will need to disclose it unless it falls under one of the other exceptions. Those exceptions sound like they might be relevant though since you said it was NOT a conviction, which could maybe full under (3) in the above quote or the second bullet point.

Yea the key word here is CONVICTION

More info about my case: I have two charges on my record. One is from 2009 when I was 17 and is a misdemeanor for DUI Cannabis. It’s not a conviction but I pled guilty and I cannot expunge or seal it at all. The other is from 2014 and is a misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia (a bag of marijuana). This one is a conviction and the chances are very low that any kind of expunction is available. This is due to the laws in that state. I’ve grown up a lot since then; I don’t smoke weed anymore and have no intention of ever doing drugs again.

Truth be told, I am a little confused about how you pled guilty to a charge and yet it was not a conviction/not expunged/not sealed. Could you clarify a bit?

It's quite likely that since it's been seven years, you cannot expunge or seal it at all, depending on the statue of limitations in your state. Also most charges aren't expunged/sealed unless you are under the age of 18 at the time that the crime was committed.
In any case you will have to report the conviction, so be aware of that.

 

[Browns99]

Lawyers are not involved when applying to medical school so I’m not sure what else OP needs discuss with a lawyer other than licensing. The AMCAS guide gives very specific instructions on what you do not have to disclose in terms of criminal background, including state specific guidance for stuff that has been mentioned in this thread.

Please, you were wrong...move on.

 

[j_diggity]

@j_diggity

"You must indicate if you have ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a misdemeanor crime, excluding (1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, (2) any convictions that have been expunged or sealed by a court, or (3) any misdemeanor convictions for which you completed any probation and for which the court dismissed the case (in states where applicable). You need not disclose any instance in which you were:
• Arrested but not charged.
• Arrested and charged, with the charges dropped.
• Arrested and charged but found not guilty by a judge or jury.
• Arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, with the conviction overturned on appeal.
• Arrested and found guilty but received an executive pardon."

From page 24 of the 2021 AMCAS guide https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/5186/download

After reading that, I am confused why adcoms are saying the DUI does not have to be disclosed because you are 17. Like you said in a previous post, if you were charged as an adult, you will need to disclose it unless it falls under one of the other exceptions. Those exceptions sound like they might be relevant though since you said it was NOT a conviction, which could maybe full under (3) in the above quote or the second bullet point.

Yes, actually, reading this again, the DUI would fall under arrested and charged, with the charges dropped. I did plea guilty, but the court did not find me guilty, instead reserving judgment and dismissing the case. AMCAS says nothing about that. I think for ERAS I would also not have to disclose the DUI, but may have to disclose the later possession charge. In any case, a background check that goes back further than 7 years would likely turn up both cases, so I have to think about what happens if I don't disclose anything and then get "found out" later. I actually just got hired by a medical school to work in a pediatric ER doing research; I doubt that I would be forbidden from rotating at any sites in M3/M4 or residency... right?

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, actually, reading this again, the DUI would fall under arrested and charged, with the charges dropped. I did plea guilty, but the court did not find me guilty, instead reserving judgment and dismissing the case. AMCAS says nothing about that. I think for ERAS I would also not have to disclose the DUI, but may have to disclose the later possession charge. In any case, a background check that goes back further than 7 years would likely turn up both cases, so I have to think about what happens if I don't disclose anything and then get "found out" later. I actually just got hired by a medical school to work in a pediatric ER doing research; I doubt that I would be forbidden from rotating at any sites in M3/M4 or residency... right?

Disclose what you are required to disclose. Criminal Background Checks are now required before you start med school. If something comes up on the CBC that was not disclosed you may be asked to explain but you won't be dinged for failing to disclose something that you were not required to disclose.

Possession of marijuana 7+ years earlier is very likely to be treated as a very small infraction that will not block you from training, licensure or practice.

 

[YCAGA]

I doubt that I would be forbidden from rotating at any sites in M3/M4 or residency... right?

As a rule of thumb, the most headaches with anything like citizenship, criminal records, drug use, etc will probably come from the VA, which is a required rotation site at many MD schools and many (most?) academic residencies. I just checked my forms for VA on-boarding for med students and they ask about any criminal convictions going back 7 years. I am not sure if their actual background check cares about further back than 7 years, but I would doubt it if they do not require you to disclose it.

 

[j_diggity]

As a rule of thumb, the most headaches with anything like citizenship, criminal records, drug use, etc will probably come from the VA, which is a required rotation site at many MD schools and many (most?) academic residencies. I just checked my forms for VA on-boarding for med students and they ask about any criminal convictions going back 7 years. I am not sure if their actual background check cares about further back than 7 years, but I would doubt it if they do not require you to disclose it.

Awesome. By the time residency rolls around, these charges will be 19 and 14 years old.