Applying to medical school with no patient contact.Interested in Pathology.

[cephalexinRX]

Hi,

I am a Pathologist Assistant at an Ivy League medical center and per diem Cytotechnologist. I'm 26 (male) and interested in applying to medical school next summer for 2013 admission. Ugrad GPA: 3.61, MCAT: TBD.

My research into medical school websites etc constantly states how they are looking for applicants devoted to patient care and with lots of patient contact experience. I have basically NONE. I spend most of my day grossing and pre-diagnosing for Pathologists under a microsope, and I love it (cytology, histology/intra operative frozen sections,etc)

Im afraid my lack of exposure to patients and interest in only being a Pathologist (so far) will be a negative. Frankly, diagnosing for other Doctors is more appealing to me than treating/cutting/prescribing for patients myself.

Basically, I prefer to have no patient contact. The Pathologists I work with do not talk to Patients. Exception: Cytopathologist occasionally perform FNAs on palpable masses, which is enough patient contact for me.

I do not enjoy explaining things to lay people and in general don't like what I hear/observe about patient contact. Thus, Pathology seems like the perfect fit for me since I'll mostly be talking to other Doctors and Path Assistants and Cytotechs, etc.

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[Mattabet]

I think your assessment of the situation is fairly astute. There are going to be interviwers who don't like the relative lack of patient contact.

However, you've certainly got something nice going for you in that you understand the field you want to go into. I thnk if you just take a little time to shadow a pathologist, and maybe have him set you up with a collegue or two for a few hours, you will be sitting pretty. And you'll probably be able to get some awesome letters from real doctors too.

I say go for it! Good luck.

 

[cephalexinRX]

I think your assessment of the situation is fairly astute. There are going to be interviwers who don't like the relative lack of patient contact.

However, you've certainly got something nice going for you in that you understand the field you want to go into. I thnk if you just take a little time to shadow a pathologist, and maybe have him set you up with a collegue or two for a few hours, you will be sitting pretty. And you'll probably be able to get some awesome letters from real doctors too.

I say go for it! Good luck.

I don't think I'll shadow Pathologists. I work with them 40-50+hours/week and spend time signing out cases with them at the scope, etc.

I care about patient care, absolutely. Diagnoses coming out from a Pathologists CANNOT be wrong. But, talking to other Doctors appeals to me more than talking to patients, listening to their symptoms that they incorrectly describe with laymen terminology, and listening to their life stories.

I'm probably going to hate all non-Pathology roations in medical school but no pain no gain.

 

[Isoprop]

if you hate patient contact, you're going to hate your rotations. and you're also going to hate your clinical skills classes during your pre-clinical years.

You are going to need to get some experience with patients and sort of feign interest in being open minded about your career choices. It's unavoidable that you need to get at least some direct patient contact experience. At the very least, it shows that you can survive medical school until your residency begins (pathology doesn't have a internship year so you can throw away your stethoscope after graduation). And during interviews, you can tell your interviewers you are mainly interested in pathology but you are willing to keep an open mind to other fields.

For the love of God, don't tell anybody during your application cycle that you don't want to talk to patients.

Bottom line: you will need patient contact experience before medical school, and you will surely have patient contact during medical school.

 

[cephalexinRX]

I was a Cytotechnologist for 2 years before being a Pathologist Assistant and still do it per diem. Cytotechnologists have minor patient contact when they prepare slides at aspirations (radiology, usually) to screen for malignant/pre-malignant slides. I hope that counts. If I need more I'll figure it out.

Feign interest? Again, more medical school application BS. Everyone that volunteers in a hopsital...most of them WILL quit with an MD/DO acceptance in hand. Doing something just to pad a resume sucks.

if you hate patient contact, you're going to hate your rotations. and you're also going to hate your clinical skills classes during your pre-clinical years.

You are going to need to get some experience with patients and sort of feign interest in being open minded about your career choices. It's unavoidable that you need to get at least some direct patient contact experience. At the very least, it shows that you can survive medical school until your residency begins (pathology doesn't have a internship year so you can throw away your stethoscope after graduation). And during interviews, you can tell your interviewers you are mainly interested in pathology but you are willing to keep an open mind to other fields.

For the love of God, don't tell anybody during your application cycle that you don't want to talk to patients.

Bottom line: you will need patient contact experience before medical school, and you will surely have patient contact during medical school.

 

[SoDakMLS]

I care about patient care, absolutely. Diagnoses coming out from a Pathologists CANNOT be wrong. But, talking to other Doctors appeals to me more than talking to patients, listening to their symptoms that they incorrectly describe with laymen terminology, and listening to their life stories.

I'm probably going to hate all non-Pathology roations in medical school but no pain no gain.

I perfectly understand how you feel--I have a laboratory background and I'm definitely leaning towards pathology at this point. I applied to school twice, and was successful the 2nd time when I put emphasis on my patient experiences and how those were what inspired me to be a doctor rather than continue as an MLS. Basically I think you're going to need to convince adcoms that your motivation is coming from the patients (even if you prefer not to deal with them directly) and that you're not just looking for a 'promotion.' If you haven't already, perhaps some volunteer time in the ER or other hands on things with patients/people will do the trick, and make sure to mention what you got out of these experiences as much or more as the relevant training you received during your PA program.

Speaking of which, years 1 and 2 will likely be much easier for you when your start med school! Even the specialized training for Med Lab Science has been a great help in Biochem so far. You will be everyone's best friend come Histo/Phys! Best of Luck! LABORATORY REPRESENT! 🙂

 

[cephalexinRX]

Laboratory Medicine represent, indeed! I did B.S. in MLS with concentration in Cytology and later a post-bac for Path Assistant.

An M.D. taught our cytology-histocorrelation courses in undergrad. He said in the begining "frankly, you will learn more about histology than medical students and doctors that are not pathologists".

I hope the critical thinking I get from diagnosing tissue/cytology will prep me for the MCAT.

I perfectly understand how you feel--I have a laboratory background and I'm definitely leaning towards pathology at this point. I applied to school twice, and was successful the 2nd time when I put emphasis on my patient experiences and how those were what inspired me to be a doctor rather than continue as an MLS. Basically I think you're going to need to convince adcoms that your motivation is coming from the patients (even if you prefer not to deal with them directly) and that you're not just looking for a 'promotion.' If you haven't already, perhaps some volunteer time in the ER or other hands on things with patients/people will do the trick, and make sure to mention what you got out of these experiences as much or more as the relevant training you received during your PA program.

Speaking of which, years 1 and 2 will likely be much easier for you when your start med school! Even the specialized training for Med Lab Science has been a great help in Biochem so far. You will be everyone's best friend come Histo/Phys! Best of Luck! LABORATORY REPRESENT! 🙂

 

[Isoprop]

I was a Cytotechnologist for 2 years before being a Pathologist Assistant and still do it per diem. Cytotechnologists have minor patient contact when they prepare slides at aspirations (radiology, usually) to screen for malignant/pre-malignant slides. I hope that counts. If I need more I'll figure it out.

This should count but it depends on how you describe it.

Feign interest? Again, more medical school application BS. Everyone that volunteers in a hopsital...most of them WILL quit with an MD/DO acceptance in hand. Doing something just to pad a resume sucks.

Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. I understand the frustration of jumping through hoops application padding/BS that pre-meds have to go through. I UNDERSTAND! But unfortunately, that's the reality, and it sucks. There will be more during medical school, especially since you have a narrow focus on pathology. Your 12 week internal medicine rotation will seem like a waste of time after your 3rd week.

The purpose of almost all medical schools is to train clinicians. So you still need to show some experience with working directly with patients.

 

[drizzt3117]

A lot of schools won't even read applications without clinical volunteering. I think your experiences will help you a lot, but pathologists still need to be able to clinically correlate their findings with disease process and clinical course, much of which you'll learn in med school.

 

[cephalexinRX]

A lot of schools won't even read applications without clinical volunteering. I think your experiences will help you a lot, but pathologists still need to be able to clinically correlate their findings with disease process and clinical course, much of which you'll learn in med school.

Clinical volunteering? What, should I go volunteer and read books to cancer kids? Volunteer "comforting" patients in the ER? Still, all adcoms know I will quit such practices with an acceptance in hand, the same way no one will probably become a neurosurgeon if it pays minimum wage.

I think I'll look into volunteering at the hospital I work at. I could do pet therapy with my little cute shizu dog. I play the piano, and the hospital has a piano.

 

[Brachyury]

Clinical volunteering? What, should I go volunteer and read books to cancer kids? Volunteer "comforting" patients in the ER? Still, all adcoms know I will quit such practices with an acceptance in hand, the same way no one will probably become a neurosurgeon if it pays minimum wage.

I think I'll look into volunteering at the hospital I work at. I could do pet therapy with my little cute shizu dog. I play the piano, and the hospital has a piano.

Part of med school admissions--and life--is playing the game. Jump through the hoops, learn the commands, and if you're lucky, at the end, you'll be rewarded with a Scooby snack.

To echo what someone else said, interacting with patients is important not only because ADCOMs expect to see it, but you need to make sure you can interact with patients: third year is long and brutal, and if you enter med school with the mentality that you dislike interacting with patients, your clinical rotations will kill you.

 

[gman33]

You are going to need to learn to interact with patients to make it thru med school. Ad coms want to make sure you can do this, regardless of what specialty you ultimately want to pursue.

You need to have direct patient contact to demonstrate that to them.
Somewhere in the 200+ hour range would be nice.

And you might not realize it now, but you actually need to know a lot about taking a history and physical in order to be a good pathologist.
The other docs are asking you to answer a specific clinical question when they order a test. If you don't understand that process, you might not give them a useful answer.

If you don't want to go through all this, get a PhD and just work in a lab.
No use wasting all the time/money of going to med school.

 

[drizzt3117]

Clinical volunteering? What, should I go volunteer and read books to cancer kids? Volunteer "comforting" patients in the ER? Still, all adcoms know I will quit such practices with an acceptance in hand, the same way no one will probably become a neurosurgeon if it pays minimum wage.

The thing is, you just never know what you're going to go into. There was a survey recently that found 85% of med students switched specialty choices from a survey on matriculation to graduation. It could be due to choice, the vagaries of the NRMP, or in the case of path, potentially job prospects. Adcoms know these statistics, which is why it isn't recommended to endorse a specialty in your primary, secondary, or interviews. I actually got into a verbal argument with an interview at a school about specialty choice (ended up asking for and receiving another interview during the same day, and ultimately an acceptance, although the whole situation was such a turnoff that I ended up crossing the school off my list). It just isn't a good idea. As much as you think you know what you want to go into, you really don't.



I think I'll look into volunteering at the hospital I work at. I could do pet therapy with my little cute shizu dog. I play the piano, and the hospital has a piano.[/QUOTE]

 

[cephalexinRX]

Many of the Pathologists I work with told me one of the reasons they became Pathologists was because they do not want patient interaction. However, they got through third year.

Thanks everyone, I'm going to figure something out. Maybe I can integrate patient contact in my job? My hospital/medical center is starting to introduce patients to the Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine by having employees explain tests results, etc. I was asked to start a community education program...sounds good.

You are going to need to learn to interact with patients to make it thru med school. Ad coms want to make sure you can do this, regardless of what specialty you ultimately want to pursue.

You need to have direct patient contact to demonstrate that to them.
Somewhere in the 200+ hour range would be nice.

And you might not realize it now, but you actually need to know a lot about taking a history and physical in order to be a good pathologist.
The other docs are asking you to answer a specific clinical question when they order a test. If you don't understand that process, you might not give them a useful answer.

If you don't want to go through all this, get a PhD and just work in a lab.
No use wasting all the time/money of going to med school.

 

[cephalexinRX]

I have so much experience in Pathology. I could just mention how so far I am interested in Pathology and how it relates to other specialties...and add how I am open and my mind could change.

The thing is, you just never know what you're going to go into. There was a survey recently that found 85% of med students switched specialty choices from a survey on matriculation to graduation. It could be due to choice, the vagaries of the NRMP, or in the case of path, potentially job prospects. Adcoms know these statistics, which is why it isn't recommended to endorse a specialty in your primary, secondary, or interviews. I actually got into a verbal argument with an interview at a school about specialty choice (ended up asking for and receiving another interview during the same day, and ultimately an acceptance, although the whole situation was such a turnoff that I ended up crossing the school off my list). It just isn't a good idea. As much as you think you know what you want to go into, you really don't.



I think I'll look into volunteering at the hospital I work at. I could do pet therapy with my little cute shizu dog. I play the piano, and the hospital has a piano.

[/QUOTE]

 

[drizzt3117]

I have so much experience in Pathology. I could just mention how so far I am interested in Pathology and how it relates to other specialties...and add how I am open and my mind could change.

[/QUOTE]

Part of medical education is training well-rounded doctors. This is why mid-levels frequently encounter difficulty in med admissions, because a certain amount of retraining in worldview is necessary. This is especially important as medicine has gotten more soecialized with the demise of the rotating internship.

 

[DrBowtie]

You gotta play the game. Use some connections to shadow some specialties. I'm sure you can find people in Heme/Onc and Surgery to shadow. You need to broaden your cone of knowledge about healthcare.

 

[Isoprop]

I have so much experience in Pathology. I could just mention how so far I am interested in Pathology and how it relates to other specialties...and add how I am open and my mind could change.

That really isn't going to cut it. You need to actually DO something to show that you are broadly interested in medicine. ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PATHOLOGY. This would be slightly different for a paramedic who is narrowly interested in emergency medicine. But for a PathA interested in only pathology, you will get more resistance from adcoms just because pathology is generally misunderstood by a lot of clinicians.

I'm getting the feeling that you feel above the typical volunteering/shadowing premed-kiddie activities to get into med school because you are interested in only pathology and you are likely older than the majority of applicants. If I am right, I strongly suggest you change that attitude. No adcom is going to be impressed by your extensive experience as a pathologist assistant if they think you hate being near patients.

 

[Longshanks]

No adcom is going to be impressed by your extensive experience as a pathologist assistant if they think you hate being near patients.

Especially since you will be spending plenty of time with patients during your clinical years, and earlier depending on the school. Even as a pathologist with limited patient contact, you're going to need to display a sense of compassion and empathy for those whom you are providing care for, even if these are consultations for another colleague's patient. That is what is going to get you through the four years of med school, and what the adcoms want to see: that you can work with patients and be someone who can work professionally and competently with your professional colleagues. Being a shut in isn't going to win the adcom over to your side. They want to see that you understand the big picture of health care and not treat your cases as just pictures of micrographs from textbooks or a game, but that these are real live people you are dealing with.

 

[cephalexinRX]

Well, I have a year and more (hoping for 2013 admission) to show adcoms I can handle patient contact/interaction enough to get through medical school.

I cannot honestly tell adcoms in written or verbal form that any volunteering or work (integrated in my employment) I do to get patient contact experience is truly for the sake of it. It's just to gem"t experience. I'm not afraid to admit that either. I cant sugar proof it with "I wanted to help them".

If I'm still interested in Pathology in medical school, I will probably still only do the minumum amount of rotations that require patient contact. There's alot of cool pathology rotations like neuropath, hematopathology, etc.

Someone said it, part of me doesnt want to do this volunteer crap because I'm older (26). Yeah, I'll get over it.

I can't pretend to love patient contact, but if I need to bring myself to accept/endure it, I will. People that really enjoy patient contact, kudos to you.

Especially since you will be spending plenty of time with patients during your clinical years, and earlier depending on the school. Even as a pathologist with limited patient contact, you're going to need to display a sense of compassion and empathy for those whom you are providing care for, even if these are consultations for another colleague's patient. That is what is going to get you through the four years of med school, and what the adcoms want to see: that you can work with patients and be someone who can work professionally and competently with your professional colleagues. Being a shut in isn't going to win the adcom over to your side. They want to see that you understand the big picture of health care and not treat your cases as just pictures of micrographs from textbooks or a game, but that these are real live people you are dealing with.

 

[cephalexinRX]

What do some of you think about patient contact? Do you actually like it? Explaining things to very very lay people, dealing with crap (figurative), etc?

I sometimes hear medical students/doctors complain about patients. They must not really like it. I'm afraid if I go into other fields...part of my residency and maybe even attendinghood will be spent being some sort of semi-social worker (trouble in the ER, in clinic, etc). In Pathology, I deal with just the underlying science of medicine (clinical correlation, histo/cyto diagnosis, immunohistochem, etc). That's what I want to go to medical school for....not to deal with social issues.

 

[LRAccord624]

I cannot honestly tell adcoms in written or verbal form that any volunteering or work (integrated in my employment) I do to get patient contact experience is truly for the sake of it. It's just to gem"t experience. I'm not afraid to admit that either. I cant sugar proof it with "I wanted to help them".

If I'm still interested in Pathology in medical school, I will probably still only do the minumum amount of rotations that require patient contact. There's alot of cool pathology rotations like neuropath, hematopathology, etc.

Someone said it, part of me doesnt want to do this volunteer crap because I'm older (26). Yeah, I'll get over it.

I can't pretend to love patient contact, but if I need to bring myself to accept/endure it, I will. People that really enjoy patient contact, kudos to you.

No, you can't pretend to love patient contact, but you can acknowledge that it is an integral component of any physician's career, regardless of his/her specialty. I'm not especially fond of patient contact (also considering pathology) and our clinical medicine classes are very stressful for me, BUT I know how important that experience is. I have generally done very well and gotten great feedback from standardized patients and our course director, and really proud of it because this is something that's very difficult for me.

Regardless of what your plans are you need to play the game. It's just the way things are.

1. Shadow a few doctors to demonstrate your "open-mindedness" and interest in medicine overall
2. Find some kind of volunteering that YOU enjoy and do it. Your volunteer work doesn't even need to be in a hospital, but you DO need to work with people- that's what is important.
3. Know that you will be doing required clinical experiences with standardized and later real patients during your first and second year. Furthermore, you will spend your ENTIRE 3rd year doing required patient-oriented rotations. You will NOT get a chance to do sub specialty work in pathology unless you do it over the summer, schedule an elective or two 4th year, or later during a fellowship if you choose to do one.

You have a long way to travel down a road saturated with patient-contact before you'll ever get the chance to do what you really want to do (as of right now). But like you said, no pain, no gain. Just gotta figure out if it'll all be worth it in the end.

 

[cephalexinRX]

To start getting patient contact experience, I'm probably gonna start in the pet therapy program at the medical center I work at. Pet owners still talk to patients, so that's a start. At the same time I'll spend time with my dog.

Later I'll sign up for the community educator thing the Department of Path and LabMed is starting. I'll get paid, so good. It involves talking to patients about lab tests, and their tissue diagnoses, etc.

No, you can't pretend to love patient contact, but you can acknowledge that it is an integral component of any physician's career, regardless of his/her specialty. I'm not especially fond of patient contact (also considering pathology) and our clinical medicine classes are very stressful for me, BUT I know how important that experience is. I have generally done very well and gotten great feedback from standardized patients and our course director, and really proud of it because this is something that's very difficult for me.

Regardless of what your plans are you need to play the game. It's just the way things are.

1. Shadow a few doctors to demonstrate your "open-mindedness" and interest in medicine overall
2. Find some kind of volunteering that YOU enjoy and do it. Your volunteer work doesn't even need to be in a hospital, but you DO need to work with people- that's what is important.
3. Know that you will be doing required clinical experiences with standardized and later real patients during your first and second year. Furthermore, you will spend your ENTIRE 3rd year doing required patient-oriented rotations. You will NOT get a chance to do sub specialty work in pathology unless you do it over the summer, schedule an elective or two 4th year, or later during a fellowship if you choose to do one.

You have a long way to travel down a road saturated with patient-contact before you'll ever get the chance to do what you really want to do (as of right now). But like you said, no pain, no gain. Just gotta figure out if it'll all be worth it in the end.

 

[LRAccord624]

To start getting patient contact experience, I probably gonna start in the pet therapy program at the medical center I work at. Pet owners still talk to patients, so that's a start. At the same time I'll spend time with my dog.

Later I'll sign up for the community educator thing the Department of Path and LabMed is starting. I'll get paid, so good. It involves talking to patients about lab tests, and their tissue diagnoses, etc.

Both of those are great ideas. I have a dog too and I would love to put her in the pet therapy program, but at the hospital I tried to do so at required a lot of certifications that I just don't have the time or money to get right now 🙁. Good luck this year getting stuff squared away before you apply!

 

[cephalexinRX]

Both of those are great ideas. I have a dog too and I would love to put her in the pet therapy program, but at the hospital I tried to do so at required a lot of certifications that I just don't have the time or money to get right now 🙁. Good luck this year getting stuff squared away before you apply!

I have a shizu just like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKq1z0ifudY

(not mine)

2 years old now. Name is Wolfi, after W.A. Mozart.
He's afraid of the Hurricane now.

 

[Isoprop]

I cannot honestly tell adcoms in written or verbal form that any volunteering or work (integrated in my employment) I do to get patient contact experience is truly for the sake of it. It's just to gem"t experience. I'm not afraid to admit that either. I cant sugar proof it with "I wanted to help them".

You don't have to be dishonest. You can talk about what you've learned from patient contact experience and how you have grown to appreciate the doctor-patient interaction. You can say that being a pathA sparked your desire to enter medicine, and patient contact increased your desire to pursue medicine (you were willing to put up with it so it did increase your desire). You can honestly say you are comfortable around patients from these experiences. You don't have to LIE and say you fell in love with it.

What do some of you think about patient contact? Do you actually like it? Explaining things to very very lay people, dealing with crap (figurative), etc?

I have found out that I am naturally comfortable and sometimes even good at talking to patients. Like you, however, I don't prefer it. Right now, I'm interested in radiology or pathology.

 

[drizzt3117]

Your patients are people at their most vulnerable state. Theyre out of their comfort zone and in yours. The ability to put them at ease and help them feel that even if things aren't going to be ok, they'll be as good as they possibly can is very important. These are some of the factors that differentiate a pathology tech from a pathologist, that and broad knowledge of medicine.

What do some of you think about patient contact? Do you actually like it? Explaining things to very very lay people, dealing with crap (figurative), etc?

I sometimes hear medical students/doctors complain about patients. They must not really like it. I'm afraid if I go into other fields...part of my residency and maybe even attendinghood will be spent being some sort of semi-social worker (trouble in the ER, in clinic, etc). In Pathology, I deal with just the underlying science of medicine (clinical correlation, histo/cyto diagnosis, immunohistochem, etc). That's what I want to go to medical school for....not to deal with social issues.

 

[Isoprop]

One last thing:

Don't fall into the trap thinking that you have nothing to learn or gain from clinical extracurricular activities just because you want to be a pathologist.

 

[cephalexinRX]

As a career changer I'm definately newbie to the medical school application process. I've been getting advice from doctors I work with (residents/fellows/attendings) of multiple specialties.

Apparently, even non-medical things I do may be of interest. I directed the orchestra my undergraduate opera group in productions of five Mozart operas-it was a big leadership role.

I've been composing music since I was seven and occasionally perform as a piano soloist (paid) with professional symphony orchestras.

So, I guess adcoms will care about non-medical things. I just hope they dont think I'm better off being a musician than a medical doctor.

 

[shadowfox87]

I had 0 patient contact and 0 volunteering. Use your talents and other accomplishments to shine in the interview. The rest is just polish.

 

[drizzt3117]

I had 0 patient contact and 0 volunteering. Use your talents and other accomplishments to shine in the interview. The rest is just polish.

At my program you app wouldn't even be considered regardless of stats. It's silly not to put yourself in a position to succeed.

 

[Asp]

I understand where you're coming from but..

You're not going to get into medical school if you don't say you're interested in patients. Period.

You should get shadowing/clinical experience ASAP. Yes these activities will be 90% useless. Suck it up. Write in your essay that although you love histology you always wanted to connect a human story, a human face to those Reed-Sternberg cells and Orphan Annie nuclei.

You gotta fake it until you make it.

 

[shadowfox87]

At my program you app wouldn't even be considered regardless of stats. It's silly not to put yourself in a position to succeed.

I'm glad I didn't apply to your program then. Everyone's got their own strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I didn't decide to go into medical school until 2 months after I graduated, so doing extraneous things such as volunteering and patient contact was last on the priority list. The point is people do these things just to get into medical school, but once you're in, none of it really matters. Residency directors look for research, usmle, gpa, and other more important things.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm glad I didn't apply to your program then. Everyone's got their own strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I didn't decide to go into medical school until 2 months after I graduated, so doing extraneous things such as volunteering and patient contact was last on the priority list. The point is people do these things just to get into medical school, but once you're in, none of it really matters. Residency directors look for research, usmle, gpa, and other more important things.

What exactly do you think you do in residency? Take care of patients, perhaps? The reason we take clinical volunteering, shadowing, and patient contact seriously in admissions is because the objective of medical schools is to train clinicians, ie, people good at dealing with patients. I don't think it's a lot to ask for people seeking to enter a patient-focused profession to spend time with patients. Roughly 3% of all med students go into path, so people going into non-patient care specialties make up a minuscule % of the med school population as a whole.

 

[Jolie South]

Moving this to Pre-Allo. This is not a topic for current medical students.

 

[twentyone]

I cannot honestly tell adcoms in written or verbal form that any volunteering or work (integrated in my employment) I do to get patient contact experience is truly for the sake of it. It's just to gem"t experience. I'm not afraid to admit that either. I cant sugar proof it with "I wanted to help them".

Yeah, good luck with that.

If I'm still interested in Pathology in medical school, I will probably still only do the minumum amount of rotations that require patient contact. There's alot of cool pathology rotations like neuropath, hematopathology, etc.

I can't pretend to love patient contact, but if I need to bring myself to accept/endure it, I will. People that really enjoy patient contact, kudos to you.

PA training is pretty narrowly focused. You're going to want to get all the basic medicine you can get. The cool pathology roattions will come in your residency. You will need to focus on basic medicine, surgery, infectious disease, etc. If you were applying for residency I would tell you not to do any pathology rotations, other than maybe for a letter. If you were a med student and applying with that kind of attitude, it would be a big red flag. And I am a patholgist.

 

[Asp]

What exactly do you think you do in residency? Take care of patients, perhaps? The reason we take clinical volunteering, shadowing, and patient contact seriously in admissions is because the objective of medical schools is to train clinicians, ie, people good at dealing with patients. I don't think it's a lot to ask for people seeking to enter a patient-focused profession to spend time with patients. Roughly 3% of all med students go into path, so people going into non-patient care specialties make up a minuscule % of the med school population as a whole.

There's something to be said for pursuing what you love, as opposed to what the other 97% of people love.

 

[drizzt3117]

There's something to be said for pursuing what you love, as opposed to what the other 97% of people love.

You can (and will) do that all day long as a resident, fellow, and attending. Until then, medical students are expected to gain a broad knowledge of medicine. Again, it's what separates physicians from mid-levels.

 

[Gut Shot]

But, talking to other Doctors appeals to me more than talking to patients, listening to their symptoms that they incorrectly describe with laymen terminology, and listening to their life stories.

You think that's what clinical medicine entails? Look, third year of medical school is f-ing awesome. It's your only chance to see all sorts of crazy, bizarre stuff out in the wards/clinics. Almost every day I witnessed something jaw dropping, from traumas to unexplained neurological presentations to psychiatric curiosities. It's your only chance to do all those things you have to do in order to justify being called "doctor."

I knew I wanted to go into pathology from day 1 of medical school, so I looked at everything outside my field of interest as a means to learn how clinicians behave and hospitals function. This information will be absolutely essential to your ability to excel as a pathologist. We cannot hide behind our microscopes, so look at interactions with patients as an opportunity rather than some wasteful punishment.

 

[El Dooderino]

Hi,

I am a Pathologist Assistant at an Ivy League medical center and per diem Cytotechnologist. I'm 26 (male) and interested in applying to medical school next summer for 2013 admission. Ugrad GPA: 3.61, MCAT: TBD.

My research into medical school websites etc constantly states how they are looking for applicants devoted to patient care and with lots of patient contact experience. I have basically NONE. I spend most of my day grossing and pre-diagnosing for Pathologists under a microsope, and I love it (cytology, histology/intra operative frozen sections,etc)

Im afraid my lack of exposure to patients and interest in only being a Pathologist (so far) will be a negative. Frankly, diagnosing for other Doctors is more appealing to me than treating/cutting/prescribing for patients myself.

Basically, I prefer to have no patient contact. The Pathologists I work with do not talk to Patients. Exception: Cytopathologist occasionally perform FNAs on palpable masses, which is enough patient contact for me.

I do not enjoy explaining things to lay people and in general don't like what I hear/observe about patient contact. Thus, Pathology seems like the perfect fit for me since I'll mostly be talking to other Doctors and Path Assistants and Cytotechs, etc.

you have a real crappy attitude. honestly, I think the admissions process is meant to weed out persons such as yourself. I think even path residents and attendings would agree with this

 

[Gut Shot]

you have a real crappy attitude. honestly, I think the admissions process is meant to weed out persons such as yourself. I think even path residents and attendings would agree with this

I wouldn't go so far as to call it "crappy," probably just myopic. In health care, as in life, most people don't see very far past their own niche. The OP clearly has very little concept of anything outside the gross room and cyto lab. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, unless it stems from an inherent lack of intellectual curiosity.

 

[flodhi1]

OP is a clown

 

[El Dooderino]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it "crappy," probably just myopic. In health care, as in life, most people don't see very far past their own niche. The OP clearly has very little concept of anything outside the gross room and cyto lab. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, unless it stems from an inherent lack of intellectual curiosity.

there's also a sense of undeserved entitlement. I can't imagine guys like this are good for your field. Maybe there's some asperger's and he just doesn't communicate well, I don't know

 

[circulus vitios]

Just lie and do some volunteering. I'm interested in radiology but I sure as hell won't mention it if I get any interviews.

 

[El Dooderino]

I'm glad I didn't apply to your program then. Everyone's got their own strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I didn't decide to go into medical school until 2 months after I graduated, so doing extraneous things such as volunteering and patient contact was last on the priority list. The point is people do these things just to get into medical school, but once you're in, none of it really matters. Residency directors look for research, usmle, gpa, and other more important things.

I'm glad patient contact and volunteering were last on your list. It's probably important to do those things to see if you actually want to work in a healthcare setting where you primarily interact with (GASP!) patients. You sound like you're going a be a great doc though, man if this is the crop of people coming up our profession is screwed

 

[NickNaylor]

Why would I believe that you even have a faint understanding of medicine? How can I take you seriously as a medical school applicant when you haven't invested any time exploring the profession?

That's what admissions committee members will be wondering.

 

[cephalexinRX]

you have a real crappy attitude. honestly, I think the admissions process is meant to weed out persons such as yourself. I think even path residents and attendings would agree with this

Um, I did mention I am going to seek opportunities for patient contact experiences ASAP, especially integrating it in my current job.

 

[cephalexinRX]

Why would I believe that you even have a faint understanding of medicine? How can I take you seriously as a medical school applicant when you haven't invested any time exploring the profession?

That's what admissions committee members will be wondering.

Um, I mentioned I'm going to start investigating medicine beyond what pathology is.

 

[circulus vitios]

Why would I believe that you even have a faint understanding of medicine? How can I take you seriously as a medical school applicant when you haven't invested any time exploring the profession?

That's what admissions committee members will be wondering.

The admissions process is such a joke. Clinical volunteering is so quickly recommended while the majority of the opportunities available to the typical pre-med amount to transportation and custodial assistance. As if shuttling patients and making beds is any indicator of what the profession is like. Not that more "significant" experiences are any more significant, either. How many medical students, interns, residents, and attendings hate their lives because they had no idea what was coming until they were past the point of no return? I wish committee members would stop the BS and recognize clinical experience for it is really is: just another hoop to jump through.

 

[sector9]

Um, I did mention I am going to seek opportunities for patient contact experiences ASAP, especially integrating it in my current job.

Um, I mentioned I'm going to start investigating medicine beyond what pathology.

Reread your title.

You're the one who started the thread about APPLYING without patient contact, not gaining patient contact for a year prior to applying. So obviously people are going to comment about your chances at APPLYING without patient contact.