Are acceptances for minorities really that skewed?

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I'm serious. I try to work in specific areas related to places that I see room for improvement. This includes:
1. GRE preparation
2. Research mentoring and lab placement
3. Straight up taking URMs to graduate school classes with me

You really have no idea what I've done at my University to help URMs.
Let's be cereal, are you just mentoring these kids so that you can say that you are down with minority communities so that you stand a better chance of admission to California schools? Like, if I told you right now, I had an acceptance letter to, I dunno, UCSF, would you just drop the mentoring and focus on your grades? Man to man, I just need to know. If you really feel passionately about it, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you. All I'm asking for you to keep it real for a moment and answer my question straight.
 
Where's the pie chart that says how much race ethnicity matter versus gpa/mcat versus the entire rest of the application?

(I'm not referring to existing SDN charts and graphs. I'm suggesting there should be a graph like what I described above.)

Sorry, you're kind of late. Right now we're discussing penises and math. Feel free to contribute though.
 
Let's be cereal, are you just mentoring these kids so that you can say that you are down with minority communities so that you stand a better chance of admission to California schools? Like, if I told you right now, I had an acceptance letter to, I dunno, UCSF, would you just drop the mentoring and focus on your grades? Man to man, I just need to know. If you really feel passionately about it, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you. All I'm asking for you to keep it real for a moment and answer my question straight.

I'm serious. It geeks me to help poor kids and minorities. I attended 5 community colleges; 2 were in poor areas and were predominantly hispanic/black/asian, and 2 were rural (College of the Siskiyous and Columbia College in Sonora)... I've seen a lot of people struggle and never make it through school.
 
I'm serious. It geeks me to help poor kids and minorities. I attended 5 community colleges; 2 were in poor areas and were predominantly hispanic/black/asian, and 2 were rural (College of the Siskiyous and Columbia College in Sonora)... I've seen a lot of people struggle and never make it through school.
Aight, I believe you. But if you care about those kids so much, let the three or four of them that actually make it to the medical school application process get into school. Sure, they might need extra help and resources if they have lower scores, but that is the school's prerogative to decide if they want to provide in exchange for a more diverse student body. Not many minorities apply, and we need them if we want to have a class that can properly treat the citizens of this country and understand the issues that they face and must overcome in order to stay healthy.
 
Where's the pie chart that says how much race ethnicity matter versus gpa/mcat versus the entire rest of the application?

(I'm not referring to existing SDN charts and graphs. I'm suggesting there should be a graph like what I described above.)

This graph can't exist. The application evaluation process is totally subjective outside of GPA/MCAT
 
There are two very wrong misconceptions held by people here.

1.) URM are all "underachieving"
2.) any GPA/MCAT combo below 3.7/30 automatically makes one a subpar doctor.

While a large % of URMS get in with belo average stats, just by the sheer number of ORM Applicants, more ORMs are getting in with the same stats than URMS in terms of absolute numbers! Where's the ferocious arguments against these ORM's?

It's been stated multiple times by adcoms here that anyone with a 3.0/28(?) is perfectly capable of withstanding the rigors or medical school. There's more to medicine than just the raw scores. Numbers are just one part of the equation. Meeting the needs of the patient populations as well as bedside manners are just as important.
 
There are two very wrong misconceptions held by people here.

1.) URM are all "underachieving"
2.) any GPA/MCAT combo below 3.7/30 automatically makes one a subpar doctor.

While a large % of URMS get in with belo average stats, just by the sheer number of ORM Applicants, more ORMs are getting in with the same stats than URMS in terms of absolute numbers! Where's the ferocious arguments against these ORM's?

It's been stated multiple times by adcoms here that anyone with a 3.0/28(?) is perfectly capable of withstanding the rigors or medical school. There's more to medicine than just the raw scores. Numbers are just one part of the equation. Meeting the needs of the patient populations as well as bedside manners are just as important.
I agree. The first assumption is insulting and very much inaccurate. The second is neglectful of the variety among med school admissions around the country. I recently attended a prospective student visit at a private school, and during the mock admissions session, the dean told us very clearly that someone with a 3.4/28 with experience in rural/underserved communities, would straight up beat out someone with 3.9/36 + heavy research. That school puts people in rad onc and dermatology every year, along with many great PCPs.
 
I'm trying to help you. Maybe you don't see it, but I think that you do.

Excuse me for saying so, but it sounds like you've been blinded by PC nonsense. It's okay if you want to hate on me because I'm white and help URMs... it's not any different than the strange looks I get when I go to MESA programs. People can't believe that I'm trying to help them for no money. Be my guest and hate some more.

Great. Another white person thinking they are helping people of color. Your white-savior complex is really messed up.
 
At least your stereotype includes being smart. When I walk into a patients room they think I'm an aid or there to fix the TV ugh
Do aids and TV repairmen often wear white coats? Maybe you're the kind of doc who doesn't?
 
Do aids and TV repairmen often wear white coats? Maybe you're the kind of doc who doesn't?
So many people wear a white coat or some type of outfit that patients don't really pay attention to who's wearing what. People are not as observant as you think. And not everyone knows that doctors wear white coats.
 
So many people wear a white coat or some type of outfit that patients don't really pay attention to who's wearing what. People are not as observant as you think. And not everyone knows that doctors wear white coats.
One would think that that was common knowledge. More and more, I'm starting to think such a thing doesn't exist.

Most people don't frequent hospitals or healthcare settings. It seems like someone within a novel environment would pay more attention to their surroundings.
 
One would think that that was common knowledge. More and more, I'm starting to think such a thing doesn't exist.

Most people don't frequent hospitals or healthcare settings. It seems like someone within a novel environment would pay more attention to their surroundings.
IDK, I think that within medicine we think we really matter, but patients and families are less concerned with your coat or figuring out who the parade of people coming in and out of their room are than getting better and getting what they want. Med school has made me realize outside of the hospital bubble and cocktail parties, doctors are not that special.
 
At least your stereotype includes being smart. When I walk into a patients room they think I'm an aid or there to fix the TV ugh

Yeah I was swapping stories with a friend of mine who is a black physician. People think I'm the nurse, but that he is the janitor. Le sigh
 
Yeah I was swapping stories with a friend of mine who is a black physician. People think I'm the nurse, but that he is the janitor. Le sigh
Happens all. The. Time. I used to get offended. But it is pretty funny to see how embarrassed they are when they find out I'm not a cleaning person.
 
So many people wear a white coat or some type of outfit that patients don't really pay attention to who's wearing what. People are not as observant as you think. And not everyone knows that doctors wear white coats.

If a tall white guy walked into a hospital room, even if he was wearing jeans and a t-shirt patients mind will automatically go..... doctor? A black guy, patients mind goes......maintenance? Yeah it sucks
 
Yeah I was swapping stories with a friend of mine who is a black physician. People think I'm the nurse, but that he is the janitor. Le sigh
I honestly got tired of having to tell patients I wasn't their doctor every time I went in the room. Stereotypes are annoying for everyone.
 
I honestly got tired of having to tell patients I wasn't their doctor every time I went in the room. Stereotypes are annoying for everyone.
Where I volunteer, our patients mistake me for a doctor or PA, all the time. When I asked one lady how old she thought I was, she said 29. I'm 20. I guess it's the combination of looking older and being white within a clinical environment. I find it rather flattering; that's until they start asking me a bunch of serious questions about their health.
 
I honestly got tired of having to tell patients I wasn't their doctor every time I went in the room. Stereotypes are annoying for everyone.


Oh how hard for you....🙁. people think you're a highly trained professional based on your skin color and gender. Just shows how much priviledge some groups have.
 
Oh how hard for you....🙁. people think you're a highly trained profession based on your skin color and gender. Just shows how much priviledge some groups have.
It isn't flattering, it's a PITA that gets in the way of me doing my job. I probably wasted 30 minutes a shift explaining to my patients that I wasn't their loved one's physician, that I have no idea how to interpret the scan that they just went for, and that, furthermore, I have no effing clue how to get a hold of the physician that actually does because tracking down an attending or senior resident in a teaching hospital isn't nearly as easy as one might think. And I can't just not address them calling me the doctor, because if I don't it's "the doctor came in the room and started playing with the ventilator and just ignored our questions" or "the doctor came in and told us X and X about their pulmonary status"- it opens me and the hospital up for all kinds of legal liability. Yeah, first world problems, I know, but I hate having to play 5 minutes of legal CYA every time I meet a patient's family in the ICU for the first time just because I happen to be a white guy.
 
To the URM med students/residents/docs posting here:

I am an accepted (MD) African American male who has worked very hard to earn a high GPA/MCAT. I am graduating from an HBCU where everyone is supportive and hardworking to achieve their desired goals. All I want to do is earn my MD and practice medicine just like the next guy. However, I'm always shocked at what I read in these threads. Much of this shock comes from the fact that I will soon be working alongside over-represented med students who seem to resent my very existence as a student doctor.

Therefore, I raise these questions:
Are/were your classmates receptive of you?
Do/did you have a hard time finding classmates to study with?
Have you ever been mistreated because of your skin color in medical school?
 
To the URM med students/residents/docs posting here:

I am an accepted (MD) African American male who has worked very hard to earn a high GPA/MCAT. I am graduating from an HBCU where everyone is supportive and hardworking to achieve their desired goals. All I want to do is earn my MD and practice medicine just like the next guy. However, I'm always shocked at what I read in these threads. Much of this shock comes from the fact that I will soon be working alongside over-represented med students who seem to resent my very existence as a student doctor.

Therefore, I raise these questions:
Are/were your classmates receptive of you?
Do/did you have a hard time finding classmates to study with?
Have you ever been mistreated because of your skin color in medical school?


Where are you going to med school?
 
To the URM med students/residents/docs posting here:

I am an accepted (MD) African American male who has worked very hard to earn a high GPA/MCAT. I am graduating from an HBCU where everyone is supportive and hardworking to achieve their desired goals. All I want to do is earn my MD and practice medicine just like the next guy. However, I'm always shocked at what I read in these threads. Much of this shock comes from the fact that I will soon be working alongside over-represented med students who seem to resent my very existence as a student doctor.

Therefore, I raise these questions:
Are/were your classmates receptive of you?
Do/did you have a hard time finding classmates to study with?
Have you ever been mistreated because of your skin color in medical school?
One of the best physicians I have ever worked with, my freakin' medical director, is an AA. I respect him immensely and hope to one day be even close to as good as a physician as him. I may not yet be a medical student, but as someone who's worked in a damn good teaching hospital for over 6 years now, I can tell you from observation that no one gives a damn what your race is once you're a resident or attending. And when I start med school, I surely won't care about the race of my classmates. I think it's more butthurt premeds that fear the 5-8% of apps that are URMs on a given year will edge them out that are complaining.
 
It's absolutely a reflection of reality...those charts are actual stats. Don't cry over your stats...they show you have a 90% chance of getting an MD school if you apply like most people do and interview like a reasonably personable person. 90% is amazing...and you have even better odds at DO. Enjoy it and take your seat in med school and don't look back or regret it.

Now if you are asking if everyone gets that same treatment, no, they don't. With my pigmentation and your stats, I'd have less than a 50% chance of getting an MD spot. I don't like the system and you can decide whether you like or not based on your own opinions, but it's there. The justification given is that minority doctors are often more willing to work in areas with minority patients that aren't near enough doctors. There is also some evidence that minority patients prefer doctors who look like them and simply put, there aren't a lot of black doctors. The last of the big three reasons I see a lot is that sociologically a black student in america is more likely to grow up in a bad school district and household with less money and that med school admissions can help even the playing field a bit with extra consideration for black applicants. But that's a policy discussion for another place and not something you will change as an applicant( even if you wanted to, you may not). If you want to change it, you can push for change once you are a doctor. For now, just be a successful applicant. Every single one of us would check any box we could to increase our odds rights now. I will repeat, and I mean this sincerely...Enjoy it and take your seat in med school and don't look back or regret it.

Wow, thank you so much for your thorough and helpful response. I actually feel quite guilty, I won't lie. I know plenty of Asian and white students who work much harder than me at school and the fact that I may have the same chance they have, or even higher, simply because of my race seems pretty unfair.

HOWEVER, I'm not complaining. Lol. If anything it makes me want to work harder and do more in terms of EC's and studying so I can feel like I actually deserve the spot I get.

& Wow, Mr Interesting. This thread really did explode o_o Definitely wasn't expecting this many responses...
 
Wow, thank you so much for your thorough and helpful response. I actually feel quite guilty, I won't lie. I know plenty of Asian and white students who work much harder than me at school and the fact that I may have the same chance they have, or even higher, simply because of my race seems pretty unfair.

HOWEVER, I'm not complaining. Lol. If anything it makes me want to work harder and do more in terms of EC's and studying so I can feel like I actually deserve the spot I get.

& Wow, Mr Interesting. This thread really did explode o_o Definitely wasn't expecting this many responses...
I smell troll
 
Wow, thank you so much for your thorough and helpful response. I actually feel quite guilty, I won't lie. I know plenty of Asian and white students who work much harder than me at school and the fact that I may have the same chance they have, or even higher, simply because of my race seems pretty unfair.

HOWEVER, I'm not complaining. Lol. If anything it makes me want to work harder and do more in terms of EC's and studying so I can feel like I actually deserve the spot I get.

& Wow, Mr Interesting. This thread really did explode o_o Definitely wasn't expecting this many responses...
You are freakin' masterful.
Applause-For-You_o_129184.gif
 
Great. Another white person thinking they are helping people of color. Your white-savior complex is really messed up.

I'm going to print this out and tape it above my desk for added motivation.
 
It appears there is some disagreement on what to do with the fact that average accepted URM stats tend to be lower. There is only one solution. I must pass on my excellent premed genes to the URM community in an effort to raise the next generation of successful physicians.

Well, line up this way ladies of URM descent. This is a tough job, but I'm willing to do what it takes.
 
Arguing, BS, kiddy talk... it continues.

Helping community college kids, working with outreach groups, mentoring struggling students... it doesn't.

No, the gimp show continues here on SDN.


See the thing is you have this attitude that doing this somehow makes you an authority. Sadly, it does not. You mearly bringing it up shows that you want an award or a pat on the head for helping those you feel are beneath you.

I also tutor inner city high school kids. I tutored community college kids. I hold college application workshops, health education workshops and do motivational speaking for Native American youth. In my community, college isn't even on our radar but I still try to act as a connection and resource for my community.

Difference is that I don't ask for approval or a gold star for it. It also doesn't make my ravings an authority because of it.

You've chosen to remain ignorant even though people have tried to help you. I only hope that after you have gotten through your cognitive dissonance that you realize how big the gaps is for people who were not born with socioeconomic privilege or even white privilege and it helps you grow as an individual. As it statnds now, the thought of you holding a life in your hands actually scares the crap out of me. No one is beneath you and not everyone has the same opportunities you do.
 
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Yeah I was swapping stories with a friend of mine who is a black physician. People think I'm the nurse, but that he is the janitor. Le sigh

THIS, from my understanding, is one of the reasons the URM policy exists. That should just never happen - and doesn't happen to ORMs.

Wrong, you are ignorant and the 5 people who liked your post are partisan sheep.
 
Wow, thank you so much for your thorough and helpful response. I actually feel quite guilty, I won't lie. I know plenty of Asian and white students who work much harder than me at school and the fact that I may have the same chance they have, or even higher, simply because of my race seems pretty unfair.

HOWEVER, I'm not complaining. Lol. If anything it makes me want to work harder and do more in terms of EC's and studying so I can feel like I actually deserve the spot I get.

& Wow, Mr Interesting. This thread really did explode o_o Definitely wasn't expecting this many responses...

Are you married to a white guy with a huge head? I think I know who you are.
 
You seem to be completely missing the point.

Minorities need to be accepted into medical schools and not just medical schools, every professional school/graduate school. Like it or not, some patients feel more comfortable with doctors of their same racial background.

No doubt MexDoc, in fact, I only want to see white doctors. I refuse to see anyone other than a white doctor, because they "get" me, know what I"m saying? On a real, personal level. White docs only please, thanks.
 
No doubt MexDoc, in fact, I only want to see white doctors. I refuse to see anyone other than a white doctor, because they "get" me, know what I"m saying? On a real, personal level. White docs only please, thanks.
I get what you are trying to do but please try to look at it from another perspective.

There is a huge distrust between minority communities with white physicians and if we look at the horrible and unethical events in our history, their distrust may be justifiable. I’m sure you are familiar with the Tuskegee syphilis experiment or the Guatemala syphilis experiment. In fact, throughout our history minorities have been repeatedly used as guinea pigs by white physicians and researchers. In practically all those dishonorable experiments the minorities usually ended up dead though they were mislead into believing they were receiving quality health care. As a result, many minority populations do not trust most white physicians.
 
THIS, from my understanding, is one of the reasons the URM policy exists. That should just never happen - and doesn't happen to ORMs.
Just wanted to point out that while this is, in fact, deplorable, it doesn't necessarily mean that affirmative action is the most ethical way to rectify this.

I think this misconception is among the things that make this debate so heated. Not to say are or aren't doing this.
 
As soon as an Asian child is born their parents start saving for their med school tuition.
Ignorant and racist
Many people know I'm very against URM conscious admissions but I would never stoop so low as to apply stereotypes to certain demographics because that has no place in a policy-only discussion. And it's racist and embarrassing

The 21st century: A time where even complimenting a demographic group as being intelligent and responsible invokes a knee-jerk response of "that's racist!"
 
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Just wanted to point out that while this is, in fact, deplorable, it doesn't necessarily mean that affirmative action is the most ethical way to rectify this.

I think this misconception is among the things that make this debate so heated. Not to say are or aren't doing this.
The trouble is that there is no other reasonably good way to rectify it that we have yet come up with. Getting rid of affirmative action entirely would result in a substantial decline in minority physicians and certainly not help any stereotypes.
 
The troll in me so wants to counter troll this with "the only people who get passionate about ending affirmative action are borderline ORM applicants that should have worked harder in the first place so they weren't on the cusp of ORM admission stats. Why would any high stat applicant be concerned about lower stat applicants matriculating with them? That's like a free shot in the arm to their class rank. So I'm sorry your own mediocrity frightens you so much, Mr. Butthurt ORM Applicant, but affirmative action is a win all around for the rest of us." But I'm not a troll anymore, unfortunately, so I can't say such things with a straight face.
 
Edit: privacy
 
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A friend of mine mentored URMs and did a bunch of random activities in college that made it seem like he was URM (salsa club, Spanish club, Hispanic premed club etc). He applied and got into some really good schools.

I asked him how he did it, and he told me that he worked really hard and applied as a URM (he's 1/8th Mexican). I'm convinced he's a genius for coming up with this amazing strategy.
:whoa:
 
To the URM med students/residents/docs posting here:

I am an accepted (MD) African American male who has worked very hard to earn a high GPA/MCAT. I am graduating from an HBCU where everyone is supportive and hardworking to achieve their desired goals. All I want to do is earn my MD and practice medicine just like the next guy. However, I'm always shocked at what I read in these threads. Much of this shock comes from the fact that I will soon be working alongside over-represented med students who seem to resent my very existence as a student doctor.

Therefore, I raise these questions:
Are/were your classmates receptive of you?
Do/did you have a hard time finding classmates to study with?
Have you ever been mistreated because of your skin color in medical school?

I don't think anyone here (even the occassionally truly incorrect mdformee) resents urm doctors existing, or at least they haven't said so. There is a disagreement with the processes that include race as a factor.

I think every one just wants a fair shot. There are some who think the only chance of a fair shot is urm advantage to counter historical lack of a fair shot. And, there are some who think think a fair shot is going color blind in admissions.

I dug ditches last week at my construction job, I'm just happy I made it in because I hated my old life. I'm just hoping for the most level shot for eveyone else who wants out of their old lives too. Rejoice in your acceptance, don't let procedural disagreements take away your sense of accomplishments
 
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