Are any of these aspects of surgical profession true or false?

[J. Winter]

- Have an offer from (depending on year, metrics) world's best (or one of the best) university for medicine (with a view of ultimately training for surgery, esp neuro).
- Am 29, currently a financial engineer (use statistics and programming for investment).
- Currently looking at my pros and cons list; would appreciate comments on how true (false) some of my assumption are.

(1) Surgery training and practice has more freedom and independence (no micromanagement) compared to engineering: even during training years considerable autonomy: independent interactions with patients, ability to pursue uninterrupted minor operations (say removal of artheroma or just plain suturing). No project manager, you (service provider) in direct contact with customer. Do have mentors when learning the ropes. Surgical nurses generally follow your lead.
(2) Extremely robust employment available in any geographic location. Whereas neuro-surgery is limited to large urban centers, there is demand for more basic surgical skill even in rural communities. Any financial engineering positions are few, competitive and mostly limited to about four global cities.
(3) All of the professionals you deal with frequently in your environment have above average intelligence.
(4) You can be a highly successful surgeon being in the top 10% of IQ, in contrast to financial engineering where only top 1% make it big.
(5) Studiousness is proportional to success.
(6) Little creative problem solving in surgery; a lot more procedural (i.e. can be fairly dull).
(7) In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.
(8) Knowledge sharing and academic publications highly encouraged. In contrast to trade secrets found in engineering.
(9) Age factor. Late arrivals to the field may experience difficulty via competition from younger traditional-entry colleagues. Patients may also look them down during training.
(10) As a profession more intra-competitive and political than engineering (which tends to be collegiate within the same firm).

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[HighPriest]

I think going in to medicine as a 29 year old intent on neurosurgery is something you need to consider to begin with. Don't know your specific information, but you're talking about 11 years of training and a lot of debt to go in to a high stress field with a lot of burnout, and not being able to start your career until at least age 40. I'm not saying that's a deal-breaker, but you need to make sure that's what you want.

To answer your specific questions:
1 - You're not going to find a lot of guys here who were engineers and then went in to surgery, so comparing the two will be fairly subjective. I would say your first bullet point is pretty inaccurate. There's a ton of oversight. How much you're micromanaged depends upon the individual, the individual's attending, and the setting. You're definitely in direct contact with the patient, but not when they're on the wards (nurses see them far more than you do) or when they're weeding through all of the hospital and insurance red tape. Surgical nurses may follow your lead. Or they may not. That depends upon you, them, and your relationship.
2 - Tons of employment opportunity. What'll limit you IF you end up in neurosurgery is that not all hospital systems employ NS, which you have identified here.
3 - Eeehhhh......yeah. I guess. Above average. But remember what George Carlin said: Think of how dumb the average person is, and remember that half of the people out there are dumber than that. So it doesn't take much to be above average. You're going to work with infuriating, relatively dumb people no matter what you do. Your patients will be dumb sometimes. Your nurses. Your colleagues. Your administrator overlords for sure. You can't get away from stupid.
4 - I think you're maybe putting too much weight on IQ. And it depends upon what you mean with regards to successful. Do you mean financially? Well known researcher? Well regarded clincially?
5 - Disagree. Nice in theory. Studiousness is proportional to doing the right thing. There are plenty of successful guys who don't read that much.
6- I would argue that the creative problem solving is what makes a great surgeon great. It's true that basic procedures can become dull, but I can teach anyone to do a basic procedure. When the (*& hits the fan, you need creative problem solving skills. Those are the cases that separate the milk from the cream.
7 - Sometimes. This varies depending upon location, specialty, etc. I would say that if you are the type of person who makes the statement that a larger proportion of females automatically creates a catty, leftist environment that is hostile to logic, brevity, and openness, you will probably find medicine to be all of the things you've mentioned.
8 - That is probably more true in medicine than other fields, save some basic sciences.
9 - yes.
10 - yes.

 

[LucidSplash]

7) wow. Just wow. As a female surgeon, based on this statement alone, I would not want you as a colleague.

 

[HighPriest]

I think you should seriously consider the fact that you may also have to work with minorities, possibly muslims. I think one of my nurses might be an immigrant.

 

[HighPriest]

7) wow. Just wow. As a female surgeon, based on this statement alone, I would not want you as a colleague.

So catty.....

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Stick with engineering.


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[MediCane2006]

7) wow. Just wow. As a female surgeon, based on this statement alone, I would not want you as a colleague.

Well I mean you know we females are all left leaning, catty, illogical, rambling, backstabbing and passive aggressive. Don’t you hate how logical and concise all your male colleagues are? I know I do...

 

[Jolie South]

Well I mean you know we females are all left leaning, catty, illogical, rambling, backstabbing and passive aggressive. Don’t you hate how logical and concise all your male colleagues are? I know I do...

Yea, I mean my male attendings never throw instruments or temper tantrums when things don’t go their way in the OR. And how do I function with boobs and nail polish when I am operating? Total handicap.

 

[Psai]

Yea, I mean my male attendings never throw instruments or temper tantrums when things don’t go their way in the OR. And how do I function with boobs and nail polish when I am operating? Total handicap.

See if your boobs were symmetric, you wouldn't have the problem of being so left leaning

 

[VincentAdultman]

Usually when someone mentions IQ there’s like a 99.99999 percent chance it’s a troll. Good thing I kept reading so I didn’t miss that Sweet Sweet MGTOW take.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yea, I mean my male attendings never throw instruments or temper tantrums when things don’t go their way in the OR. And how do I function with boobs and nail polish when I am operating? Total handicap.

Not to mention y'all go around ovulating all over the place

 

[mistafab]

Your use of parenthesis is unintelligent OP.

 

[J. Winter]

I think you should seriously consider the fact that you may also have to work with minorities, possibly muslims. I think one of my nurses might be an immigrant.

Would say that is not a factor as long as the individual is competent and of reasonable character. Re (7), one of my female friends (herself a doctor) keeps telling horror stories, which prompted the question whether this is anecdotal or significant. (1) - what could be examples of oversight?, (2) I am guessing one can shift surgical specialty to be a generalist if life circumstances and location requires it? (3) Meant that one does not generally have people (not patients) that are a tangible impediment / slow-down to work, plus can have good chat with your colleagues (4) I mean competence - being a high performer in your craft, conducting operations fast, with few complications, maybe if lucky making an improvement to an existing technique or even inventing a minor new one. Would imagine financial reward to follow.

General note. You mention starting career at 40. Would it not be 34? One does earn a progressively growing salary as a resident. Even engineering has pseudo residency, albeit it takes an informal, non-mandatory on the job training to progress career.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Would say that is not a factor as long as the individual is competent and of reasonable character. Re (7), one of my female friends (herself a doctor) keeps telling horror stories, which prompted the question whether this is anecdotal or significant. (1) - what could be examples of oversight?, (2) I am guessing one can shift surgical specialty to be a generalist if life circumstances and location requires it? (3) Meant that one does not generally have people (not patients) that are a tangible impediment / slow-down to work, plus can have good chat with your colleagues (4) I mean competence - being a high performer in your craft, conducting operations fast, with few complications, maybe if lucky making an improvement to an existing technique or even inventing a minor new one. Would imagine financial reward to follow.

General note. You mention starting career at 40. Would it not be 34? One does earn a progressively growing salary as a resident. Even engineering has pseudo residency, albeit it takes an informal, non-mandatory on the job training to progress career.

So,

one of my female friends (herself a doctor) keeps telling horror stories, which prompted the question whether this is anecdotal or significant.

led to

In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Based on the answers on this thread, I'm sure you noticed the answer for 7 is "yes".

So objecting to gross generalizations of an entire gender makes one “catty?” Lmao


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[VincentAdultman]

So objecting to gross generalizations of an entire gender makes one “catty?” Lmao


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This sounds a little too much like logic, which I understand is not valued by women.

 

[HighPriest]

Why all the generalizations about cats? I'm more of a dog person, but let's not assume all cats are like women.

 

[LucidSplash]

Based on the answers on this thread, I'm sure you noticed the answer for 7 is "yes".

I think you are confusing collective eye-rolling and sarcasm in the face of unveiled misogyny for “cattiness and lack of value towards brevity, openness, directness, and logic.”

In other words, openly stating that a high proportion of women in a profession is a negative at all, especially by attributing an entire gender with such negative stereotypes, is a great way to get the many female surgeons on this forum to tell you to **** off. Who wants to help someone like that?

 

[LucidSplash]

Ya know, I don’t actually disagree with the cattiness part of the comment. The genders each have their own pluses and minuses (and it’s a beautiful thing). At the worst extremes, women are indeed as a whole more gossipy (if you’ve ever worked in an all-female office, it gets kind of ridiculous; I have to deal with tears and finger-pointing on a weekly basis) and men more likely to be rude/jerks (also something I see in my mostly male field—can’t remember the last time I saw a woman hurl a chair at work). My problem with OPs post is that it a) doesn’t seem to realize that surgery has a really high percentage of women and b) that female surgeons, if allowed to flourish in large numbers, will be illogical and gossip like a bunch of bored secretaries, despite the fact that they are goddamn surgeons. At some point, what’s beneath the scrubs ceases to matter.


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Yeah, that’s BS. My own direct experience with that is that female surgeons as a whole have a “Ain’t nobody got time for that ****” take on cattiness and gossip. Anywhere I’ve worked if any new person be it an intern or attending tried to start with that nonsense it was collectively shut down by the other women FAST. My male attendings were complete gossips about the residents and other attendings where I trained for residency and the women were 100%, professional probably partly BECAUSE of the ridiculous stereotype.

So again, **** off with that misogynist ****.

The fact that you are a woman yourself is very disappointing that you think this is a truism that should be allowed to proliferate. If YOU don’t act this way, then I don’t know how you can agree with the stereotype.

 

[DokterMom]

See if your boobs were symmetric, you wouldn't have the problem of being so left leaning

Now who's being catty?!

Not to mention y'all go around ovulating all over the place

and bleeding out of our wherevers...

Stay in finance Bro.

 

[HighPriest]

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

(3) Meant that one does not generally have people (not patients) that are a tangible impediment / slow-down to work, plus can have good chat with your colleagues

I’d like to interrupt the popcorn-fest long enough to point out that my patients themselves are not infrequently the largest tangible impediment to my work. As is WebMD.

 

[LucidSplash]

You sound triggered. Sorry to be so “disappointing” and not in line with the third wave feminist “everyone is equal and exactly alike” mentality. And this over the top reaction to my words actually proves op’s point, no? How dare a female surgeon see some truth in what OP says??! She has a vagina! She must never say anything bad about women ever, they are perfect and logical and just like men and how dare she abandon the sisterhood!!
I have my opinion because I know what real life is like. Most catty humans I’ve met have been female. And most vicious jerks have been male. Stereotypes exist for a reason because there is truth in them. Whether someone denies that truth doesn’t make any difference to reality. A ridiculous stereotype is “women aren’t as smart as men” because it has no basis in reality. “Women are gossipy” is not a ridiculous stereotype at all. It has every basis, including social psychology that clearly states female communication skills, as well as the emotion-based communication styles, are different from men and more widely used. Ever met a bunch of “aunties?”
People these days act like making a legitimate generalization about women, or any group of people, is some cardinal sin that you need to be hung for, throwing out useless “isms” (misogynist!) to make people who comment on reality feel like they’re inferior somehow. What idiocy.
And the point I was making, by the way, is precisely that female surgeons are just surgeons, and surgeons in general have a logical non-gossipy attitude regardless of gender. I was disagreeing with the OP, but not for the same reasons others were. I also commented specifically on cattiness; I disagree with the other parts of his statements about women.


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I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on our view of gender-based stereotypes. I would argue against stereotypes of male surgeons as much as I am arguing against those of women. You and I have had different experiences of surgeons in general it seems. Your "real life" is different from mine it seems and I object to the inference that your viewpoint is more reflective of reality than mine and I suspect the majority of other women surgeons here would too.

Negative gender-based stereotypes ARE misogynist/misandrist because they assume a black and white definition of gender and behavior. Honestly the same can be said for many positive gender-based stereotypes, as they usually imply a lack of that quality by the opposite gender. I see no utility in any stereotype, I'd rather consider people on their own merit as individuals rather allow some nonsense stereotype to color my expectations of their behavior before I even know them. Picking and choosing "catty" vs "illogical," "left-leaning" (in the perjorative or positive sense), "closed-minded," etc as true or false stereotypes is completely nonsensical in my view.

 

[Winged Scapula]

My experience is that of @LucidSplash 's.

Amongst surgeons, I find the men much more likely to talk about the students, residents and other surgeons in a gossipy way. This was definitely true during residency. My female attendings were less likely to badmouth other surgeons, gossip about the residents (at least in front of us).

Just today, I was doing a case, chitchatting about vacation and the plastic surgeon and anesthesiologist started talking about another plastic surgeon and some issues with his practice ethics, they then changed the topic to another anesthesiologist and whether he was married and if his /GF (or is she his wife?) has breast implants and then about a female plastic surgeon who looks frumpy and how she should die her gray hair because she doesn't look like a plastic surgeon, and lastly, they began discussing a female general surgeon (whom the plastic surgeon I was with shares office space with) and how unattractive her front office woman was and that it gave the "wrong vibe" in the office. One of the nurses then piped up to agree and then talk about how obese the surgery scheduler from the plastic surgeon with the gray hair was and how come she (the plastic surgeon) didn't do liposuction on her staff because, of course, that gives a bad impression to patients.

All men in the OR except me.

We all have different experiences but I find, by and large, female surgeons are different than other women. I could be easily convinced to state that nurses, male and female, are pretty gossipy but that's true with a large segment of our population with more time than sense or courtesy.

 

[VincentAdultman]

My experience is that of @LucidSplash 's.

Amongst surgeons, I find the men much more likely to talk about the students, residents and other surgeons in a gossipy way. This was definitely true during residency. My female attendings were less likely to badmouth other surgeons, gossip about the residents (at least in front of us).

Just today, I was doing a case, chitchatting about vacation and the plastic surgeon and anesthesiologist started talking about another plastic surgeon and some issues with his practice ethics, they then changed the topic to another anesthesiologist and whether he was married and if his /GF (or is she his wife?) has breast implants and then about a female plastic surgeon who looks frumpy and how she should die her gray hair because she doesn't look like a plastic surgeon, and lastly, they began discussing a female general surgeon (whom the plastic surgeon I was with shares office space with) and how unattractive her front office woman was and that it gave the "wrong vibe" in the office. One of the nurses then piped up to agree and then talk about how obese the surgery scheduler from the plastic surgeon with the gray hair was and how come she (the plastic surgeon) didn't do liposuction on her staff because, of course, that gives a bad impression to patients.

All men in the OR except me.

We all have different experiences but I find, by and large, female surgeons are different than other women. I could be easily convinced to state that nurses, male and female, are pretty gossipy but that's true with a large segment of our population with more time than sense or courtesy.

lol

I definitely buy into the notion that “small people talk about other people.”

It’s also harder to get in trouble if you don’t go around the hospital bad mouthing the people you work with.

 

[akwho]

I think everyone made excellent points and changed other posters points of view with well reasoned and logical statements.

And we can all agree OP is a doofus for statement #7.

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

#TeamOrthoTrauma

 

[HighPriest]

This is America. There are no ties. This isn’t some soccer-loving, scarf-wearing, cheese eating country! Someone needs to win.

 

[HighPriest]

But everyone gets a participation trophy.

 

[NITRAS]

OP, thanks for this thread. It had lots of laughs.

Please stay where you are, you won't like it in medicine.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'm still waiting on some mansplaining!

 

[Goro]

- Have an offer from (depending on year, metrics) world's best (or one of the best) university for medicine (with a view of ultimately training for surgery, esp neuro).
- Am 29, currently a financial engineer (use statistics and programming for investment).
- Currently looking at my pros and cons list; would appreciate comments on how true (false) some of my assumption are.

(1) Surgery training and practice has more freedom and independence (no micromanagement) compared to engineering: even during training years considerable autonomy: independent interactions with patients, ability to pursue uninterrupted minor operations (say removal of artheroma or just plain suturing). No project manager, you (service provider) in direct contact with customer. Do have mentors when learning the ropes. Surgical nurses generally follow your lead.
(2) Extremely robust employment available in any geographic location. Whereas neuro-surgery is limited to large urban centers, there is demand for more basic surgical skill even in rural communities. Any financial engineering positions are few, competitive and mostly limited to about four global cities.
(3) All of the professionals you deal with frequently in your environment have above average intelligence.
(4) You can be a highly successful surgeon being in the top 10% of IQ, in contrast to financial engineering where only top 1% make it big.
(5) Studiousness is proportional to success.
(6) Little creative problem solving in surgery; a lot more procedural (i.e. can be fairly dull).
(7) In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.
(8) Knowledge sharing and academic publications highly encouraged. In contrast to trade secrets found in engineering.
(9) Age factor. Late arrivals to the field may experience difficulty via competition from younger traditional-entry colleagues. Patients may also look them down during training.
(10) As a profession more intra-competitive and political than engineering (which tends to be collegiate within the same firm).

8/10!!!

As an aside, most engineers who have matriculated to my school have trouble with medical school.

I remember one who constantly kept saying "but as an engineer I was trying to think this way."

He finally shut up when my pathologist colleague told him, "your days as an engineer ended the day you put on that white coat."

 

[balaguru]

I was a fairly successful software developer who started med school at age 29.

1. No. In residency your time and efforts are owned by someone else for the next 5+ years. There will be some rotations where basic functions of being human (eating, sleeping and eliminating waste) will be secondary to the task at hand for 24+ hour stretches.
2. Yes. There is some job security in medicine in general. It is relatively recession proof unless you do a disproportionate amount of truly elective stuff.
3. Sure. Medicine has several barriers to entry that select indirectly or directly for intelligence.
4. Depends on what "make it big" means to you.
5. Sure. Like almost any field.
6. No. Redo surgery, ER call, scar tissue, aberrant anatomy can require quite a bit of on the spot problem solving.
7. No.
8. Sure. Its nice not to have to reinvent the wheel all the time.
9. No. Gray hairs in medicine are usually a plus when it comes to perceived ability or judgement.
10. No. In private practice, at least, you can keep your head down and just focus on doing a good job.

- Have an offer from (depending on year, metrics) world's best (or one of the best) university for medicine (with a view of ultimately training for surgery, esp neuro).
- Am 29, currently a financial engineer (use statistics and programming for investment).
- Currently looking at my pros and cons list; would appreciate comments on how true (false) some of my assumption are.

(1) Surgery training and practice has more freedom and independence (no micromanagement) compared to engineering: even during training years considerable autonomy: independent interactions with patients, ability to pursue uninterrupted minor operations (say removal of artheroma or just plain suturing). No project manager, you (service provider) in direct contact with customer. Do have mentors when learning the ropes. Surgical nurses generally follow your lead.
(2) Extremely robust employment available in any geographic location. Whereas neuro-surgery is limited to large urban centers, there is demand for more basic surgical skill even in rural communities. Any financial engineering positions are few, competitive and mostly limited to about four global cities.
(3) All of the professionals you deal with frequently in your environment have above average intelligence.
(4) You can be a highly successful surgeon being in the top 10% of IQ, in contrast to financial engineering where only top 1% make it big.
(5) Studiousness is proportional to success.
(6) Little creative problem solving in surgery; a lot more procedural (i.e. can be fairly dull).
(7) In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.
(8) Knowledge sharing and academic publications highly encouraged. In contrast to trade secrets found in engineering.
(9) Age factor. Late arrivals to the field may experience difficulty via competition from younger traditional-entry colleagues. Patients may also look them down during training.
(10) As a profession more intra-competitive and political than engineering (which tends to be collegiate within the same firm).

 

[Dares Dareson]

(7) In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.

Wow, I can't tell if you're an incel or just trolling. Either way, 0/10 and please do not become a doctor.

 

[plukfelder2017]

~

 

[VincentAdultman]

In response to #7, I can see why certain students, residents, and attendings above have sided with you or have gotten triggered by your statement. Medical school and most residencies are exceptionally left leaning. It is a different environment of training and learning than it was 30 years ago. Look at the way society has progressed in terms of their social norms and you can see why. wouldn't you expect this change in a field where most patients expect you to possess a certain amount of empathy in addition to competence? Surgeons cannot behave in the fashion that they used to 30 years ago without facing repercussions from administration and colleagues. This is unlike capital markets where malignant behavior is common and is encouraged as you climb the ladder from analyst>associate>AVP>VP>MD. (i'd say the worst behavior i've seen has been on global trading desks. not saying i disagree with the culture as they were cranking out +200mM P/L on that desk alone, but it has no place in the field of medicine.)

People got "triggered" because Ive heard more woke takes on the opposite sex from Brick Tamland.

 

[plukfelder2017]

i'm not saying i disagree with you. my objective in responding was to hopefully allow this individual to understand that that kind of thought wouldn't necessarily be respected in the medical field. sorry if triggered was the wrong word.

 

[Mad Jack]

8/10!!!

As an aside, most engineers who have matriculated to my school have trouble with medical school.

I remember one who constantly kept saying "but as an engineer I was trying to think this way."

He finally shut up when my pathologist colleague told him, "your days as an engineer ended the day you put on that white coat."

Being an engineer is like being a doctor- once an engineer, always an engineer. One of the best surgeons I ever worked with was an emgineer that worked in robotic surgery. He recorded every operation and would watch them afterward and look for even the smallest process improvements, a major skill and passion left over from his engineering days. He had the lowest complication rates in the region by far, performed operations in less than half the time of his colleagues, and taught his colleagues with passion and skill. His engineering background and the processes that came with it were an asset to himself and the profession.

 

[Mad Jack]

- Have an offer from (depending on year, metrics) world's best (or one of the best) university for medicine (with a view of ultimately training for surgery, esp neuro).
- Am 29, currently a financial engineer (use statistics and programming for investment).
- Currently looking at my pros and cons list; would appreciate comments on how true (false) some of my assumption are.

(1) Surgery training and practice has more freedom and independence (no micromanagement) compared to engineering: even during training years considerable autonomy: independent interactions with patients, ability to pursue uninterrupted minor operations (say removal of artheroma or just plain suturing). No project manager, you (service provider) in direct contact with customer. Do have mentors when learning the ropes. Surgical nurses generally follow your lead.
(2) Extremely robust employment available in any geographic location. Whereas neuro-surgery is limited to large urban centers, there is demand for more basic surgical skill even in rural communities. Any financial engineering positions are few, competitive and mostly limited to about four global cities.
(3) All of the professionals you deal with frequently in your environment have above average intelligence.
(4) You can be a highly successful surgeon being in the top 10% of IQ, in contrast to financial engineering where only top 1% make it big.
(5) Studiousness is proportional to success.
(6) Little creative problem solving in surgery; a lot more procedural (i.e. can be fairly dull).
(7) In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.
(8) Knowledge sharing and academic publications highly encouraged. In contrast to trade secrets found in engineering.
(9) Age factor. Late arrivals to the field may experience difficulty via competition from younger traditional-entry colleagues. Patients may also look them down during training.
(10) As a profession more intra-competitive and political than engineering (which tends to be collegiate within the same firm).

Medicine has a lot of micromanagement by others from day one until the day you retire. You will be miserable

 

[Shufflin]

- Have an offer from (depending on year, metrics) world's best (or one of the best) university for medicine (with a view of ultimately training for surgery, esp neuro).
- Am 29, currently a financial engineer (use statistics and programming for investment).
- Currently looking at my pros and cons list; would appreciate comments on how true (false) some of my assumption are.

(1) Surgery training and practice has more freedom and independence (no micromanagement) compared to engineering: even during training years considerable autonomy: independent interactions with patients, ability to pursue uninterrupted minor operations (say removal of artheroma or just plain suturing). No project manager, you (service provider) in direct contact with customer. Do have mentors when learning the ropes. Surgical nurses generally follow your lead.
(2) Extremely robust employment available in any geographic location. Whereas neuro-surgery is limited to large urban centers, there is demand for more basic surgical skill even in rural communities. Any financial engineering positions are few, competitive and mostly limited to about four global cities.
(3) All of the professionals you deal with frequently in your environment have above average intelligence.
(4) You can be a highly successful surgeon being in the top 10% of IQ, in contrast to financial engineering where only top 1% make it big.
(5) Studiousness is proportional to success.
(6) Little creative problem solving in surgery; a lot more procedural (i.e. can be fairly dull).
(7) In contrast to engineering profession a large proportion of females (starting 50% at school and gradually dropping at specialty and seniority levels), which creates a more catty, left-leaning environment. Brevity, openness, directness and logic may not always be valued.
(8) Knowledge sharing and academic publications highly encouraged. In contrast to trade secrets found in engineering.
(9) Age factor. Late arrivals to the field may experience difficulty via competition from younger traditional-entry colleagues. Patients may also look them down during training.
(10) As a profession more intra-competitive and political than engineering (which tends to be collegiate within the same firm).

Given #7, the OP would do well exploring the dyadic relationship with his mother.

 

[kitsunepixie]

As a neurosurgeon, I will tell you that despite some changes recently, it is still very much a male-dominated field and mostly right-leaning, even the women. Interestingly, I was intrigued to find out how catty and gossipy males can be in the OR (gossiping about others' divorces, lawsuits, a lot other TMI things...). You'll be over 40 by the time you finish residency. And micromanaging keeps getting worse and worse...peer-to-peer reviews for MRIs, etc.

 

[J. Winter]

As a neurosurgeon, I will tell you that despite some changes recently, it is still very much a male-dominated field and mostly right-leaning, even the women. Interestingly, I was intrigued to find out how catty and gossipy males can be in the OR (gossiping about others' divorces, lawsuits, a lot other TMI things...). You'll be over 40 by the time you finish residency. And micromanaging keeps getting worse and worse...peer-to-peer reviews for MRIs, etc.

Hate gossip - my default mode is to tell something bad about myself if people start piling dirt on others. What you say seems to be supported by data (privilege level does not allow me to post link).

My feeling is micromanaging (or perhaps lack of autonomy) is more so in engineering (your seniors can easily scrap designs for philosophical reasons). Surgery (and medicine in general) seem to often be in fire-fighting mode: demand is high - seniors are busy, residents get thrown to look after whole patient wards and finish simpler bits of operations. If one is confident there is plenty of opportunity to prove oneself and earn trust.

Agree with the age factor: it is a significant psychological downer (and I get a lot of "you must be brave" for thinking of doing this). Then again - so is being 40 and having regrets that what seems to be a knack for dexterity, sensitivity and precision has never been put to use. Financial engineering is mostly about logic, creativity and abstract thinking (something I value), but does not incorporate the former. The best expression of the former is perhaps limited to writing orderly, minimalist computer code.

 

[Donald Juan]

I must be the only person here who loves some good gossip

 

[Winged Scapula]

I must be the only person here who loves some good gossip

No I like it too.

 

[Apollyon]

No I like it too.

100% honest, completely, I would have said "no", if asked if I thought you listened to gossip. That totally surprises me.

I guess that's another reason we'll never hook up!

 

[MediCane2006]

I must be the only person here who loves some good gossip

You are DEFINITELY not the only one.

I live for good gossip.

 

[Winged Scapula]

100% honest, completely, I would have said "no", if asked if I thought you listened to gossip. That totally surprises me.

I guess that's another reason we'll never hook up!

Lol...There’s a lot of reasons not the least of which is you being married and my sense that you’re a “glass half empty” type” and I’m a “glass half full type”.

Just because I enjoy listening to gossip doesn’t mean that I trade in it or believe what I hear but just like a good soap opera on TV livens things up. There’s only so much Pandora 80s cardio I can listen to in the OR.

 

[Apollyon]

Well, true all, but I did say "another"!!

 

[MediCane2006]

Lol...There’s a lot of reasons not the least of which is you being married and my sense that you’re a “glass half empty” type” and I’m a “glass half full type”.

Just because I enjoy listening to gossip doesn’t mean that I trade in it or believe what I hear but just like a good soap opera on TV livens things up. There’s only so much Pandora 80s cardio I can listen to in the OR.

If you ever move down here to the South we are going to be the best of friends

 

[Winged Scapula]

If you ever move down here to the South we are going to be the best of friends

With me driving the boat and you pouring the drinks!