Are Asian Indians at a disadvantage?

[Aerus]

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How does my own argument not apply to myself? I believe you're misreading what I'M saying here. It's not that it does not apply to me at all - it's VERY relevant and applies to me greatly (coughreadingcomprehensioncough). If you were asian and face these very same issues, I would suggest you not to use to potentially offend people. So no, it would not change what I said at all. This has blown out of proportion and I'm going to stop this hijacked thread. Assuming you follow your trend and want to get back with the last shot, go right on ahead 😛

You've just contradicted yourself:

And it is NOT the same about me, considering that I fall under this category and very much share the sentiments of the OP and much of the other corroborating posters.

But I'll let your reading comprehension explain why you just tore down everything you said. 🙄

There's nothing wrong with using two words in conjunction to state an observation that I see in this thread. Now I'm entirely convinced that you only started this argument for the sake of arguing and/or misread what I said completely (reading comprehension) and felt offended by what I said when I, in fact, did not mean what you thought I meant.

If you're really against reading the entire thread to see that I was right, I shall define it clearly for you so you won't need to turn on your reading comprehension:

Asiatic = adjective for a noun (in this case a person) with origins from Asia.
Angst = anxiety
In general = This angst in which you speak of applies to more than just Indians

Asiatic angst in general = The anxiety in this thread does not just come from Indians, but other groups of Asians in this thread.

NO flame intention. NO condescension. NO NOTHING. My one biggest pet peeve on the internet is when people make assumptions or over-analyze what people mean. Take everything to face value unless stated otherwise, please.

If you feel like you've argued yourself into a corner, then feel free to drop out. It's not like I really care. 😛 And if it helps you sleep at night, I AM Asian. I just found it hilarious that you kept assuming (PET PEEVE) that I was some non-Asian person who looks down upon Asians.

 

[Doctorphilic]

What a lively discussion! Issues of race usually get emotional in USA for historical reasons. Here is the way I see it; it is understandable that some Asians feel discriminated against. But this is not because of affirmative action. As featured on recent MSNBC by Melissa Perry and in regards to Clarence Thomas distaste for AA, she mentioned that nobody took the place of the girl who was denied admission. Likewise, what we are seeing is Asians outcompeting Asians not because of other minorities taking their place.

For example, a school can not fill its seat with 100% Asians no matter how qualified they are because medicine is not just about numbers and competition. In a diverse country, doctors should be trained based on their potential for furthering the common good and the overall improvement of societal well-being. Yes, one has to show some degree of competence and show that you will become a responsible doctor but beyond that while some Asians like to brag about their coveted "Numbers", I am sorry to say that doctors are not even the most intelligent people. I am also an aspiring doctor and I will definitely be not taking anyone's place--

As for AA and URM, I think the American society will eventually move toward race-blind criteria to choose its future leaders whether it is in health/medicine or other professions. But, I really urge those who complain and whine about the "unfair" system whether they think that people who are enslaved for well over 400 years should start from the same type of opportunities as those who never have to go through such an experience. I am not excusing anything and every human being should work harder and try to perfect himself/herself. We are all endowed with great potentials--no doubt about it.

What I wanted to emphasize is that people are talking about AA/URM as if we live in a world where discrimination, racism and other evils have not hindered the progress of certain parts of our society including African-Americans. I am not African-American but I know these are one of the most productive and intelligent people--despite what they faced in this country and we definitely need to consider historical contexts---but still, as shown by the Johns Hopkins Dr. Ben Carson and thousands of other successful individuals, they continue to make great strides defeating one stereotype at a time.

So, I believe that given the chance everyone can contribute to the society and we should stop whining and keep working hard. And the talk about some people being lazy and not working hard is a loose talk and not founded on rational reasoning. I know this is predmed forum but we should understand the complexity of the problem and hopefully a more equitable solution will be found.

 

[Aerus]

What a lively discussion! Issues of race usually get emotional in USA for historical reasons. Here is the way I see it; it is understandable that some Asians feel discriminated against. But this is not because of affirmative action. As featured on recent MSNBC by Melissa Perry and in regards to Clarence Thomas distaste for AA, she mentioned that nobody took the place of the girl who was denied admission. Likewise, what we are seeing is Asians outcompeting Asians not because of other minorities taking their place.

For example, a school can not fill its seat with 100% Asians no matter how qualified they are because medicine is not just about numbers and competition. In a diverse country, doctors should be trained based on their potential for furthering the common good and the overall improvement of societal well-being. Yes, one has to show some degree of competence and show that you will become a responsible doctor but beyond that while some Asians like to brag about their coveted "Numbers", I am sorry to say that doctors are not even the most intelligent people. I am also an aspiring doctor and I will definitely be not taking anyone's place--

As for AA and URM, I think the American society will eventually move toward race-blind criteria to choose its future leaders whether it is in health/medicine or other professions. But, I really urge those who complain and whine about the "unfair" system whether they think that people who are enslaved for well over 400 years should start from the same type of opportunities as those who never have to go through such an experience. I am not excusing anything and every human being should work harder and try to perfect himself/herself. We are all endowed with great potentials--no doubt about it.

What I wanted to emphasize is that people are talking about AA/URM as if we live in a world where discrimination, racism and other evils have not hindered the progress of certain parts of our society including African-Americans. I am not African-American but I know these are one of the most productive and intelligent people--despite what they faced in this country and we definitely need to consider historical contexts---but still, as shown by the Johns Hopkins Dr. Ben Carson and thousands of other successful individuals, they continue to make great strides defeating one stereotype at a time.

So, I believe that given the chance everyone can contribute to the society and we should stop whining and keep working hard. And the talk about some people being lazy and not working hard is a loose talk and not founded on rational reasoning. I know this is predmed forum but we should understand the complexity of the problem and hopefully a more equitable solution will be found.

You make a very well organized argument for AA. Before I begin, I would like to say that I do understand the complexity of the issues. I guess these issues are simplified when discussing on a purely admissions standpoint.

The main argument against AA is that it does not fix the issues that you have brought up. AA usually benefits minorities who were already well off. Most of the people that were immensely affected by historical oppression are not even within the range of effect of AA. If you look at the salaries of many of the African American matriculates, you'll notice that most of them were not from the margins of society and that they came from quite privileged backgrounds. I do not have access to data at the moment, but I'm sure it's lying around the internet.

Other arguments against AA is that it also DOES discriminate. Statistically, Asian and White applicants must score higher on the MCAT and have a higher GPA than their URM counterpart. Obviously, this is justified for the sake of diversity in medicine, but this need for diversity through government programs just reinforces racism.

Rather, a better solution would be to fix the underlying problems that caused such a need for diversity. This is very very long term sight, but if everyone is on an equal playing ground, diversity should come more naturally, as groups won't be disadvantaged through years of oppression and discrimination.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Jesus, this thing is still going strong.

 

[487806]

Jesus, this thing is still going strong.

I was about to join in, but instead decided to grab a bag of popcorn.

 

[ur2l8]

Just scrolling through pre-allo when I see that someone resurrected my old thread from when I was a newb 😛

😀

 

[OPanchor]

Just scrolling through pre-allo when I see that someone resurrected my old thread from when I was a newb 😛

😀

yw 😳

 

[487806]

yw 😳

Resurrect an old thread for no reason and turn it into a flame war. 👍

 

[TexasSurgeon]

Resurrect an old thread for no reason and turn it into a flame war. 👍

Do you even sleep?

 

[487806]

Do you even sleep?

Yup. I have to get up early for work (sucks because I lose the time for sleep and SDN)

 

[OPanchor]

Do you even sleep?

👍

 

[sugarmouse]

Sorry to hijack the thread again,, but I have a quick question
A close relative of mine, who has gone through AMCAS process before, tells me that it is better not to check off anything under the "race/ethnicity" section unless I qualify for URM (he is mixed, non-URM). Is my cousin being right? What would happen if you don't check off the race/ethnicity section in AMCAS?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Sorry to hijack the thread again,, but I have a quick question
A close relative of mine, who has gone through AMCAS process before, tells me that it is better not to check off anything under the "race/ethnicity" section unless I qualify for URM (he is mixed, non-URM). Is my cousin being right? What would happen if you don't check off the race/ethnicity section in AMCAS?

it's fine.

 

[487806]

Sorry to hijack the thread again,, but I have a quick question
A close relative of mine, who has gone through AMCAS process before, tells me that it is better not to check off anything under the "race/ethnicity" section unless I qualify for URM (he is mixed, non-URM). Is my cousin being right? What would happen if you don't check off the race/ethnicity section in AMCAS?

It wouldn't matter either way.

 

[trekker94]

Like you said, I am using it as a constant reminder. However, unlike what you said, it's a constant reminder for how I should NOT act even if I get into medical school.

Haha dude, just suck it up and take the L.