Are Caribbean schools really THAT horrible?

[bayliferous]

I've read tons of threads about how bad of an idea it is to go to the Caribbean, and it seems that this is mainly true because of high attrition rates, lower USMLE scores, and higher difficulty of matching into competitive US residencies (especially in a specialty).

My question is, are the "top 4" schools (SGU, Saba, AUG, Ross) really THAT bad for someone who is planning on entering primary care?

I wouldn't be considering the Caribbean at all if I hadn't royally screwed myself by not trying at all academically in undergrad, but sadly I can't go back in time and punch my past self in the face. Realistically, my only two possible options are SMP to DO or Caribbean. Obviously SMP to DO would be way better but with my cGPA and sGPA, I'm not counting on it.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[freak7]

My question is, are the "top 4" schools (SGU, Saba, AUG, Ross) really THAT bad for someone who is planning on entering primary care?

Well they do have:

high attrition rates, lower USMLE scores, and higher difficulty of matching into competitive US residencies

So...

 

[Goro]

I've read tons of threads about how bad of an idea it is to go to the Caribbean, and it seems that this is mainly true because of high attrition rates, lower USMLE scores, and higher difficulty of matching into competitive US residencies (especially in a specialty).

My question is, are the "top 4" schools (SGU, Saba, AUG, Ross) really THAT bad for someone who is planning on entering primary care?

I wouldn't be considering the Caribbean at all if I hadn't royally screwed myself by not trying at all academically in undergrad, but sadly I can't go back in time and punch my past self in the face. Realistically, my only two possible options are SMP to DO or Caribbean. Obviously SMP to DO would be way better but with my cGPA and sGPA, I'm not counting on it.

*sigh*
Quoting the wise gyngyn:

The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.


Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

 

[CAFFEINE!]

Just read every post on this wordpress blog:

Million $ Mistake

 

[Toutie]

Realistically, my only two possible options are SMP to DO or Caribbean. Obviously SMP to DO would be way better but with my cGPA and sGPA, I'm not counting on it.

Just how bad is your GPA? And have you taken the MCAT yet?

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Not everyone should be a doctor.

 

[BombsAway]

*sigh*
Quoting the wise gyngyn:

There are a number of spots at US schools with grade replacement for these candidates.

No mas

 

[Goro]

No mas

Fixed!!

 

[efle]

I've read tons of threads about how bad of an idea it is to go to the Caribbean, and it seems that this is mainly true because of high attrition rates, lower USMLE scores, and higher difficulty of matching into competitive US residencies (especially in a specialty).

My question is, are the "top 4" schools (SGU, Saba, AUG, Ross) really THAT bad for someone who is planning on entering primary care?

I wouldn't be considering the Caribbean at all if I hadn't royally screwed myself by not trying at all academically in undergrad, but sadly I can't go back in time and punch my past self in the face. Realistically, my only two possible options are SMP to DO or Caribbean. Obviously SMP to DO would be way better but with my cGPA and sGPA, I'm not counting on it.

If

1) your GPA is beyond repairing to DO level and
2) you've recently performed at a level on GPA/MCAT that predicts success in med school and
3) you're not afraid of being locked in by the debt and
4) you're not afraid to match to the least desirable residencies

then MAYBE it might make sense. People do go this route and come out as US physicians.

But if you are fresh out of college with a terrible academic record, then there's a good chance you'd end up part of the high attrition rate. You really need to know you'll make it through academically.

 

[LnSin]

It's just not worth it. I mean, if you're going to study to the point where you get 99%ile boards, and you STILL only match into IM, is your time being valued?
Million $ Mistake

 

[laricb]

I've read tons of threads about how bad of an idea it is to go to the Caribbean, and it seems that this is mainly true because of high attrition rates, lower USMLE scores, and higher difficulty of matching into competitive US residencies (especially in a specialty).

My question is, are the "top 4" schools (SGU, Saba, AUG, Ross) really THAT bad for someone who is planning on entering primary care?

I wouldn't be considering the Caribbean at all if I hadn't royally screwed myself by not trying at all academically in undergrad, but sadly I can't go back in time and punch my past self in the face. Realistically, my only two possible options are SMP to DO or Caribbean. Obviously SMP to DO would be way better but with my cGPA and sGPA, I'm not counting on it.

Don't waste your time on this blog. I heard it all, Grad from SGU 2017 Started my path to Interventional Radiology this month...

 

[LnSin]

Don't waste your time on this blog. I heard it all, Grad from SGU 2017 Started my path to Radiology this month...

What were your board scores, if you don't mind me asking? What made you apply Carib as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[laricb]

What were your board scores, if you don't mind me asking? What made you apply Carib as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

25x Step 1 and 2, Low GPA, Undergrad Bio Medical Eng. Switched to MD and only studied 3 months for the mcat. My point was if you really want it the carib path is another way to achieve your goal

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Don't waste your time on this blog. I heard it all, Grad from SGU 2017 Started my path to Interventional Radiology this month...

You started your path for an advanced residency. For all we know, that could mean that you've only matched your prelim or trans year. Did you also match in rads for PGY2 on? And, if so, is it a community program or a university affiliated program?

How many ranked programs interviewed you?

 

[laricb]

The question isnt your success, of which there are about 1000 year. It is a similar number a year who start Ross but either either never earn a degree or gain a residency slot. It is risk that applicants need to really understand prior to even contemplating the idea of off shore schools

I agree you have to work 3 times harder, But don't just dismiss ROSS or SGU. There good programs and have been around along time...

 

[laricb]

You started your path for an advanced residency. For all we know, that could mean that you've only matched your prelim or trans year. Did you also match in rads for PGY2 on? And, if so, is a community program or a university affiliated program?

Match PG2 Robert Wood Johnson a University Program

 

[efle]

Don't waste your time on this blog. I heard it all, Grad from SGU 2017 Started my path to Interventional Radiology this month...

What percentage of your incoming M1 class made it through the four years and matched along with you?

 

[laricb]

What percentage of your incoming M1 class made it through the four years and matched along with you?

We lost about 15 % of a 600 class size. But a majority of those students didn't make it past the 2nd Semester. SGU match rate is close to 80%.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I just pre-matched into Radiology, So it can be done....

Programs may offer out of match positions, but must be all the positions or none of the positions. Only aware of select few IM programs, did not know any radiology programs offer this.

A program that usually participates in the match. But this yr they had 2 opening and decided not to. I did a 4 week rotation there and didn't even know they were pre matching. I loved the program and was offered a position....

Did you prematch or actually get matched thru Match?

 

[laricb]

The schools have been around for a long time but the residency landscape they thrived under previously has changed greatly in the 40 years I have been observing them. Even so, as I posted previously in the thread, and as I advise all applicants

as I've said often, before considering any offshore school applicant must go through at least two application cycles for both MD and DO with at least a year break in between (ie skip a cycle) for application repair and/or enhancement. the break is necessary to analyze and understand the weaknesses in an application. Repair may be as simple as reorganizing rewriting application or it may require postbacc, SMP, MCAT, or additional extracurricular such as clinical volunteering and other items. I strongly advise that no student should consider off shore schools until the above has been done.

Agree I didn't have the luxury of waiting that many years.

 

[laricb]

Did you prematch or actually get matched thru Match?

Both Pre-match Rads and matched Pre-Lim

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Both Pre-match Rads and matched Pre-Lim

Glad it's worked out for you. You got a lucky break that a rotation happened to be at a hospital that wasn't doing match this year for rads

How many rads programs interviewed you and what were their rankings, if ranked?

 

[laricb]

DeVry, parent of AUC and Ross has reported to Bloomberg that in the class beginning Fall 2008, attrition rates were 20%-27% for the first two years. They further reported that 66% of AUC and 52% of Ross students finished their program on time.
Bloomberg report on Caribbean medical schools says DeVry on St. Maarten lures US medical school rejects - BearingPoint Caribbean

I can only talk about SGU...

 

[efle]

We lost about 15 % of a 600 class size. But a majority of those students didn't make it past the 2nd Semester. SGU match rate is close to 80%.

According to SGU site they have median stats of 3.4/26, which is about the same as the less competitive DO programs, so a lower attrition like that makes sense. Maybe SGU does better than others and "Caribbean" as a group is a lot more iffy than SGU in particular is?

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Both Pre-match Rads and matched Pre-Lim

You had essentially a lottery win. It doesn't sound like it's likely you would have matched rads, at least not a program associated with a university, thru the traditional way. If that's the case, then there's still too much risk, particularly for those who don't want FM or IM.

You were lucky. But so is someone who blindfolds themselves, crosses the street, and doesn't get hit. It's still not recommended. It's still risky.

 

[elpal92]

Just going to leave this link here (take a look at post #19 and connect the dots):

DO or Carribean

 

[LnSin]

Just going to leave this link here (take a look at post #19 and connect the dots):

DO or Carribean

Elementary, Watson.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Prehealth1011]

Just going to leave this link here (take a look at post #19 and connect the dots):

DO or Carribean

Caribbean med schools offer a flexible curriculum and outcomes.
Premed > Anesthesiologist > Radiologist.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Caribbean med schools offer a flexible curriculum and outcomes.
Premed > Anesthesiologist > Radiologist.

Hmmm....

In 2012, when @laricb was a premed, he was claiming this:

I graduated from SGU 2 yrs ago and I am a resident aesthesiologist at NYU. So dont discourage people from fulfilling there dreams

So, who knows what the real story is......


Is there a pants-on-fire icon?

 

[efle]

I take issue with people being able to put that they are a resident physician with no verification

I think even med student status should require verification

 

[Mian97]

150-200k debt for a 40-60% residency match rate u decide if it's horrible or nkf


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[kb1900]

I can only talk about SGU...

Can you talk about why you used to be a pgy2 anesthesiologist at a top program and then went back to the Carrib to somehow go into rads

 

[laricb]

Glad it's worked out for you. You got a lucky break that a rotation happened to be at a hospital that wasn't doing match this year for rads

How many rads programs interviewed you and what were their rankings, if ranked?

I actually

You had essentially a lottery win. It doesn't sound like it's likely you would have matched rads, at least not a program associated with a university, thru the traditional way. If that's the case, then there's still too much risk, particularly for those who don't want FM or IM.

You were lucky. But so is someone who blindfolds themselves, crosses the street, and doesn't get hit. It's still not recommended. It's still risky.

Thiswas the

Can you talk about why you used to be a pgy2 anesthesiologist at a top program and then went back to the Carrib to somehow go into rads

I am not going to address that again. You forgot to mention that I explained what happened...Whatever you want to believe I really don't care. I will be starting a PG2 Rotation in Radiology next summer .. Anyone that needs more info on SGU, please PM me I will explain the steps I took to achieve my goal...

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Can you talk about why you used to be a pgy2 anesthesiologist at a top program and then went back to the Carrib to somehow go into rads

am not going to address that again. You forgot to mention that I explained what happened...Whatever you want to believe I really don't care.

So, you're saying that there is a past post or more that explains how you were a PGY2 resident in anesthesia a few years ago, and then went BACK to med school (again in Caribb), and at some point last year, did a rotation at a hospital that decided not to participate in Match, and you were able to snag a prematch spot there for rads?

You seem to be doubling down on doo doo. If you had been a PGY2 in Anesthesia and decided to retrain in rads (which is what I think you're now trying to imply), then I doubt you would be needing to do an internship year now as a PGY1. You'd be past that, wouldn't you be? You'd have already taken Step 3, or am I confused.

And none of this squares with the fact that when you were claiming to be a PGY2 in Anesthesia, you were still an undergrad applying to med schools.


I know, I know... :troll:

 

[laricb]

So, you're saying that there is a past post or more that explains how you were a PGY2 resident in anesthesia a few years ago, and then went BACK to med school (again in Caribb), and at some point last year, did a rotation at a hospital that decided not to participate in Match, and you were able to snag a prematch spot there for rads?

You seem to be doubling down on doo doo. If you had been a PGY2 in Anesthesia and decided to retrain in rads (which is what I think you're now trying to imply), then I doubt you would be needing to do an internship year now as a PGY1. You'd be past that, wouldn't you be? You'd have already taken Step 3, or am I confused.

And none of this squares with the fact that when you were claiming to be a PGY2 in Anesthesia, you were still an undergrad applying to med schools.


I know, I know... :troll:

Meathead, If you read the past posts you will see I didn't do a PGY2 in Anesthesia

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Meathead, If you read the past posts you will see I didn't do a PGY2 in Anesthesia

Then why in October 2012, did you post:

I graduated from SGU 2 yrs ago and I am a resident aesthesiologist at NYU. So dont discourage people from fulfilling there dreams

And if you were a PGY2, that implies that you already did PGY1, which then brings on the question as to why you're doing a PGY1 right now?? Who does PGY1 twice??

Why don't you post those relevant past posts here if they would clear things up??

What exactly WERE YOU in October 2012??

 

[laricb]

Then why in October 2012, did you post:


And if you were a PGY2, that implies that you already did PGY1, which then brings on the question as to why you're doing a PGY1 right now?? Who does PGY1 twice??

Why don't you post those relevant past posts here if they would clear things up??

What exactly WERE YOU in October 2012??

Hello,

Hope all is well. Congrats! I am pleased to inform you that we would like to offer you a position as a Diagnostic Radiology resident, at (Name of Hospital) Diagnostic Radiology Residency Program. Please see attached and return the original copy of this letter with your signature by September 26, 2016

I am done

 

[Dr.Cut.em.up]

Doesn't matter about your n = 1 success or alleged success. It's generally not advised to go south of the border for medical school. I'm glad it work for you but it doesn't work for the majority.

 

[libertyyne]

Hello,

Hope all is well. Congrats! I am pleased to inform you that we would like to offer you a position as a Resident, at Princeton University medical school program of radio-neuro-space-medicine-surgery with a focus in rocket surgery. Please see attached and return the original copy of this letter with your signature by September 26, 2016

I am done

Ftfy.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Hello,

Hope all is well. Congrats! I am pleased to inform you that we would like to offer you a position as a Diagnostic Radiology resident, at (Name of Hospital) Diagnostic Radiology Residency Program. Please see attached and return the original copy of this letter with your signature by September 26, 2016

I am done

Lol...why did you have to redact the hospital name when you already claimed that it's....

Match PG2 Robert Wood Johnson a University Program

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Be aware of shills. Med schools know about SDN, so do carribeans. It's not uncommon practice to use fake identities in order to falsify info.

 

[Toutie]

Be aware of shills. Med schools know about SDN, so do carribeans. It's not uncommon practice to use fake identities in order to falsify info.

Sorta like a student at Princeton Medical School?

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Sorta like a student at Princeton Medical School?

We got the BEST match rates! Everyone does Derm!

 

[Goro]

Just going to leave this link here (take a look at post #19 and connect the dots):

DO or Carribean

Reported

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Reported

Any one ever hear that SGU does clinical rotations at Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson? That seemed strange to me. And who knows if RWJ rads IR participated in match in March?

 

[efle]

Any one ever hear that SGU does clinical rotations at Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson? That seemed strange to me. And who knows if RWJ rads IR participated in match in March?

Looks like last year they sent people into EM and anesthesia at rutgers , so not that strange. Aside from the whole ridiculous history of lying about being a physician while pre-med, I mean.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Any one ever hear that SGU does clinical rotations at Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson? That seemed strange to me. And who knows if RWJ rads IR participated in match in March?

Looks like last year they sent people into EM and anesthesia at rutgers , so not that strange. Aside from the whole ridiculous history of lying about being a physician while pre-med, I mean.

Yes, for Match, but what about SGU's clinical rotations while in med school. Do they send students to Rutgers for those?

 

[billibilodi]

yes

 

[cactusman]

In case anyone was wondering, RJW diagnostic rads has a page of current residents and no, none of their PG2s are from the Caribbean. All residents are US MD except for one LECOM and one PCOM.
RWJMS - Departments and Institutes - Radiology

 

[bayliferous]

Wow. Well...

I guess that answers my question.