Are some specialties really just about money?

Prncssbuttercup

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    I am wondering if people choose some specialties not for a particular interest but really because they are high paying. Clearly some specialties offer a high degree of difficulty, and pay more, while others seem to be competitive because they are high paying... How many of the higher paying specialties are picked just because they are high paying and for no other reason???
     
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    ChE04

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      Uhh, have you ever been to the pre-allo forum?

      But anyway, not sure why these things wouldn't factor into your decision. Most residents I know went into medicine ultimately for 1) job stability, and 2) earn a good living, and I highly doubt that this is not in everyone's head when deciding on medicine/specialties, irregardless of other factors. Premed idealism will only get you so far...
       
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      LLB2MD

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        yes, higher pay can mean higher competition, but not always. it is more the coupling of pay and lifestyle. derm for example offers good pay with good hours contrasting that with ER with better hours but less pay or orthopedic surgery which offers better pay with more hours.

        Are you saying that ER has better hours than Derm...or did I read that incorrectly?
         

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          Are you saying that ER has better hours than Derm...or did I read that incorrectly?

          Some would say yes, some no. In EM, you might work 10-15 12-hours shifts in a month. You get lots of time off, but you're sometimes swinging shifts and working weekends/holidays/etc. In derm, you are most likely working 9-5. Not a lot of emergent dermatological issues that require you to be on-call. Just depends on how and when you want your time off.
           

          Prncssbuttercup

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            Uhh, have you ever been to the pre-allo forum?

            But anyway, not sure why these things wouldn't factor into your decision. Most residents I know went into medicine ultimately for 1) job stability, and 2) earn a good living, and I highly doubt that this is not in everyone's head when deciding on medicine/specialties, irregardless of other factors. Premed idealism will only get you so far...

            First, irregardless isn't a proper word. Unless you mean I should regard it. Regardless is the correct word.

            second, I try as much as possible to avoid the pre-allo forum. It reeks of immaturity, which bugs me. I'd much prefer to spend my forum time with people of my age range, or at least my maturity level. 18-21 yr olds aren't that group. No matter how hard they try.

            Third, my question isn't 'idealism' it's a question of, are there actually people who go into anesthesiology or dermatology because they have a passion for the medicine, or is it really a specialty where it's pretty much 100% about money, not actually about helping people.
             

            Prncssbuttercup

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              I once went to a church where the pastor used that "word" at least once in every sermon. It was like listening to a skillful pianist who can't seem to find the B-flat key.

              EEEEKKKKKKKKKKK... I just hope it doesn't get into a personal statement...
               

              ChE04

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                First, irregardless isn't a proper word. Unless you mean I should regard it. Regardless is the correct word.

                second, I try as much as possible to avoid the pre-allo forum. It reeks of immaturity, which bugs me. I'd much prefer to spend my forum time with people of my age range, or at least my maturity level. 18-21 yr olds aren't that group. No matter how hard they try.

                Third, my question isn't 'idealism' it's a question of, are there actually people who go into anesthesiology or dermatology because they have a passion for the medicine, or is it really a specialty where it's pretty much 100% about money, not actually about helping people.

                First, I was not attacking you in any way, shape, or form. I can't stand the pre-allo forum myself.

                Secondly, grammar police, irregardless is a word, check the dictionary; believe it or not, irregardless is a "nonstandard" synonym of regardless:
                http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless
                http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
                I happen to like it in an informal setting, as I feel that it emphasizes the word more. I didn't realize that by posting here I was entering an essay contest. Silly point to bring up, but please let me know if that was improper use of a semicolon in the previous sentence.

                Third off, the pre-allo forum is going to be the majority of your classmates in medicine. So, like it or not you're going to have to "deal with them."

                Fourth, I'm sure there are people who love medicine in these specialties. Perhaps they just realize that there is more to life than medicine, or perhaps they really enjoy the work, or perhaps it's a combination of both. Perhaps they realized the could combine their love of medicine with a high salary and/or good lifestyle? IRREGARDLESS, who are you to question their motivations, as long as they do a good job?
                 
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                Law2Doc

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                  The more experienced career changer nontrads will have already come to the conclusion that if you are spending 50+ hours/week at your career (and pretty much all medical specialties are going to involve this during the early years, whether or not that's the popular preallo conception), you have to like it, because that's going to be your life. Everything else in your life is going to get less time, and so that had better be something you are doing for more than just to pay the bills.

                  Nobody goes into eg derm just for the money. (Well, maybe some naive premeds do, but those are the people you later see changing or doing second residencies). Money and hours and less call and not as terminal patients are all very nice perqs of the field, but the bottom line is that if you don't like talking with patients about their skin hygeine and you aren't into skin ailments, this is a really bad choice for you, and you will be miserable for 50 hours/week for life. Not to mention the fact that you probably have to put in a lot more hours in med school and in the research lab just to get looked at in derm, so you are sacrificing hours in med school in hopes you will have fewer hours after residency.

                  You shouldn't be looking at your career as a prison sentence -- something you just have to bide your time during while waiting for your real life each evening or weekend. A 20 year old who never worked may not have come to this conclusion yet, but anyone on the nontrad board who has worked for a few years ought to have. You must must must find something you enjoy and find interesting -- everything else (money, hours) is a nice perquisite if you can get it, not the driving force.

                  I also would suggest that fields change in terms of how lucrative they are -- what seems high yield now, may not be in the decade it's going to take before you complete residency/fellowship. If you look at what's happening in spine surgery today (just got killed by a change in reimbursements), and what may happen in other fields if the current health care law revisions get off the ground you will see that the carpet can all too easily get pulled out of under you. At least if it's something you enjoy, you will always have that.

                  As for "nonstandard" word usage, I think you have to realize that if you are going into a professional setting (or even in a preprofessional setting such as this one), the standard word usages are what is the vernacular. If you are a 17 year old named Bubba who drives a tractor for a living, then sure, irregardless probably passes muster.:)
                   
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                    Third, my question isn't 'idealism' it's a question of, are there actually people who go into anesthesiology or dermatology because they have a passion for the medicine, or is it really a specialty where it's pretty much 100% about money, not actually about helping people.

                    The simple answer is NO, there are no specialties about "making money."

                    Reality says that there will be individuals in any specialty that only care about making money. So instead of looking at the specialty, look at the person.
                     
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                      First, I was not attacking you in any way, shape, or form. I can't stand the pre-allo forum myself.

                      Secondly, grammar police, irregardless is a word, check the dictionary; believe it or not, irregardless is a "nonstandard" synonym of regardless:
                      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless
                      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
                      I happen to like it in an informal setting, as I feel that it emphasizes the word more. I didn't realize that by posting here I was entering an essay contest. Silly point to bring up, but please let me know if that was improper use of a semicolon in the previous sentence.

                      Third off, the pre-allo forum is going to be the majority of your classmates in medicine. So, like it or not you're going to have to "deal with them."

                      Fourth, I'm sure there are people who love medicine in these specialties. Perhaps they just realize that there is more to life than medicine, or perhaps they really enjoy the work, or perhaps it's a combination of both. Perhaps they realized the could combine their love of medicine with a high salary and/or good lifestyle? IRREGARDLESS, who are you to question their motivations, as long as they do a good job?

                      I don't usually chime in on these side notes but...

                      I think it's a fair criticism to ask for correct word usage. Irregardless really shouldn't be used. Most of us are going to be working in a highly educated field and using our language properly is important and worth correcting (even in a forum post).

                      I hope your ok with that beacause its a important issue you cant ignore.
                       

                      EdLongshanks

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                        I hope your ok with that beacause its a important issue you cant ignore.

                        lol.

                        I don't know what percentage of educated people wince whenever they hear or read non-standard word usage. I just know that I am one of them and I have met a few others.

                        Of course, this is not an essay contest. It's pretty rare for anyone to correct someone about something like this. The fact that SBB brought it up, though, might tell you how many people had a negative reaction to that particular usage.
                         

                        mauberley

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                          you shouldn't be looking at your career as a prison sentence -- something you just have to bide your time during while waiting for your real life each evening or weekend. A 20 year old who never worked may not have come to this conclusion yet, but anyone on the nontrad board who has worked for a few years ought to have. You must must must find something you enjoy and find interesting -- everything else (money, hours) is a nice perquisite if you can get it, not the driving force.

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                          RFHawks

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                            The more experienced career changer nontrads will have already come to the conclusion that if you are spending 50+ hours/week at your career (and pretty much all medical specialties are going to involve this during the early years, whether or not that's the popular preallo conception), you have to like it, because that's going to be your life. Everything else in your life is going to get less time, and so that had better be something you are doing for more than just to pay the bills.

                            Nobody goes into eg derm just for the money. (Well, maybe some naive premeds do, but those are the people you later see changing or doing second residencies). Money and hours and less call and not as terminal patients are all very nice perqs of the field, but the bottom line is that if you don't like talking with patients about their skin hygeine and you aren't into skin ailments, this is a really bad choice for you, and you will be miserable for 50 hours/week for life. Not to mention the fact that you probably have to put in a lot more hours in med school and in the research lab just to get looked at in derm, so you are sacrificing hours in med school in hopes you will have fewer hours after residency.

                            You shouldn't be looking at your career as a prison sentence -- something you just have to bide your time during while waiting for your real life each evening or weekend. A 20 year old who never worked may not have come to this conclusion yet, but anyone on the nontrad board who has worked for a few years ought to have. You must must must find something you enjoy and find interesting -- everything else (money, hours) is a nice perquisite if you can get it, not the driving force.

                            I also would suggest that fields change in terms of how lucrative they are -- what seems high yield now, may not be in the decade it's going to take before you complete residency/fellowship. If you look at what's happening in spine surgery today (just got killed by a change in reimbursements), and what may happen in other fields if the current health care law revisions get off the ground you will see that the carpet can all too easily get pulled out of under you. At least if it's something you enjoy, you will always have that.

                            As for "nonstandard" word usage, I think you have to realize that if you are going into a professional setting (or even in a preprofessional setting such as this one), the standard word usages are what is the vernacular. If you are a 17 year old named Bubba who drives a tractor for a living, then sure, irregardless probably passes muster.:)

                            Law2Doc hits it on the head. I know a retired Rads that made millions during the MRI startup era. Those numbers are way out of the question now for that specialty. However, Rads still looks competitive even after decreases in reimbursements. This is as L2D says, just a perk for my career goals. Before I decided on medicine, I shadowed a few Rads and fell in love the process of reading studies. And I asked myself, "Could I do this everyday for the rest of my life?" After talking to another Rad who does 50/50 DR/IR I saw the perfect career for me regardless of the pay and hours. The fact is, is that I love it and feel excited about the specialty. Even if reimbursements continue to decrease (they probably will) it sure beats what I was doing and making beforehand (shipping and loading boxes for $23K/year.
                             

                            ChE04

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                              I don't usually chime in on these side notes but...

                              I think it's a fair criticism to ask for correct word usage. Irregardless really shouldn't be used. Most of us are going to be working in a highly educated field and using our language properly is important and worth correcting (even in a forum post).

                              I hope your ok with that beacause its a important issue you cant ignore.

                              Okay, okay. Due to the massive public outcry against my typed equivalent of a war crime, I promise to stop sodomizing the English language on the internet. But it ain't gonna be easy.
                               

                              EdLongshanks

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                                Okay, okay. Due to the massive public outcry against my typed equivalent of a war crime, I promise to stop sodomizing the English language on the internet. But it ain't gonna be easy.


                                It's kind of like singing loudly and off-key at church. Everyone should be polite and not mention your inability to hear pitch, but that doesn't mean their skin isn't crawling.
                                 

                                apumic

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                                  First, I was not attacking you in any way, shape, or form. I can't stand the pre-allo forum myself.

                                  Secondly, grammar police, irregardless is a word, check the dictionary; believe it or not, irregardless is a "nonstandard" synonym of regardless:
                                  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irregardless
                                  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
                                  I happen to like it in an informal setting, as I feel that it emphasizes the word more. I didn't realize that by posting here I was entering an essay contest. Silly point to bring up, but please let me know if that was improper use of a semicolon in the previous sentence.

                                  Third off, the pre-allo forum is going to be the majority of your classmates in medicine. So, like it or not you're going to have to "deal with them."

                                  Fourth, I'm sure there are people who love medicine in these specialties. Perhaps they just realize that there is more to life than medicine, or perhaps they really enjoy the work, or perhaps it's a combination of both. Perhaps they realized the could combine their love of medicine with a high salary and/or good lifestyle? IRREGARDLESS, who are you to question their motivations, as long as they do a good job?[/QUOTE]

                                  Thank you for the respect you show here. Let me translate what you said but didn't mean to say there into proper English "With regard, who are you to question others' motivations insofar as they do a good job?" Ah, that's better. Seriously, though, fix the grammar. Otherwise, what you're saying isn't clearly communicated and, really, your "proof" of a word being "real" because it is listed as "nonstandard" is like saying "ain't" is okay because it's in some dictionaries (as slang). As L2D stated, the expectation of professionals, when it comes to language, is to use it properly and have a strong command of the language.

                                  As for the other stuff, I generally agree.
                                   

                                  Torr

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                                    First of all, what does srs stand for?? Does it stand for the word serious or is it an acronym? I've been waiting for a chance to ask .

                                    Also, irregardless cannot be a word!! I've been using this "word" constantly as a joke in order to make fun of people that actually seriously use it.

                                    This would devastate me.
                                     

                                    n3xa

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                                      First of all, what does srs stand for?? Does it stand for the word serious or is it an acronym? I've been waiting for a chance to ask .

                                      Also, irregardless cannot be a word!! I've been using this "word" constantly as a joke in order to make fun of people that actually seriously use it.

                                      This would devastate me.


                                      190466_569765912962_58102118_32644752_2943740_n.jpg





                                      (Yes, srs = serious :))
                                       
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                                      Prncssbuttercup

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                                        This is why I :love: the non-trad forum....

                                        Anyway, srsly, irregardless is like ain't, it's slang. You can't use it to have more emphasis of the word regardless because it is a double negative. It's like 'I don't do nothing'... Either way, we're way off topic! I was just asking because I've noticed people discuss certain specialties and I wondered whether there was an actually draw to them for the passion of treating people, or if really the major draw was the perks of the trade. Part of me is wondering because my dermatologist as a kid was really MEAN (yes mean), and part of it is because I see people post and it seems they are interested not to make people feel better, look better, etc, but because they want to be on the golf course at noon three days a week and not have to worry about an emergency with Mrs. Anderson...
                                         

                                        Law2Doc

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                                          ... Part of me is wondering because my dermatologist as a kid was really MEAN (yes mean), and part of it is because I see people post and it seems they are interested not to make people feel better, look better, etc, but because they want to be on the golf course at noon three days a week and not have to worry about an emergency with Mrs. Anderson...

                                          As I said before, some fields (eg derm) have nice perqs, but you are still going to be doing an internship, residency, and still likely work 50+ hours/week at least during your early career. Not to mention that you probably will be working a lot harder than your peers during the 4 years of med school just to get into derm in the first place. If you hate it, the perqs won't be enough to sustain you. Derm in particular gets a bad rap because the income is high, the hours are relatively decent, and the call requirements post-residency are light. But you are kidding yourself if you think someone is going to kill themselves during med school for all honors plus some research on top of that, do a legitimately intense residency with an intern year, only to spend most of their professional lives living for the weekends. If you are thinking that you are looking at the world through pre-allo colored glasses. Nontrads who have worked before can tell you better. You find something that interests you, something you don't dread getting up each morning to go to. The perqs are all nice if you get it, but is secondary. You don't want to be serving a 10+ hour/day prison sentence, biding your time until the evening or non-call weekends.
                                           

                                          Prncssbuttercup

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                                            As I said before, some fields (eg derm) have nice perqs, but you are still going to be doing an internship, residency, and still likely work 50+ hours/week at least during your early career. Not to mention that you probably will be working a lot harder than your peers during the 4 years of med school just to get into derm in the first place. If you hate it, the perqs won't be enough to sustain you. Derm in particular gets a bad rap because the income is high, the hours are relatively decent, and the call requirements post-residency are light. But you are kidding yourself if you think someone is going to kill themselves during med school for all honors plus some research on top of that, do a legitimately intense residency with an intern year, only to spend most of their professional lives living for the weekends. If you are thinking that you are looking at the world through pre-allo colored glasses. Nontrads who have worked before can tell you better. You find something that interests you, something you don't dread getting up each morning to go to. The perqs are all nice if you get it, but is secondary. You don't want to be serving a 10+ hour/day prison sentence, biding your time until the evening or non-call weekends.

                                            Umm, because I'm NOT a non-trad who has worked before? :thumbdown: W T F? Apparently the 10+ years I have in my field doesn't count... Nice...

                                            I asked a question. You seem to think that NO ONE goes into medicine for $$$, which seems to me to be the rose-colored lens, not me asking a question. No job is all peaches and cream, they all have pros and cons, the cons to a high paying residency is hard work to get there, the pros are the perks.
                                             

                                            Torr

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                                              Don't worry Torr, I'm still trying to catch up with all the internet abbreviations as well. And btw everyone, I think that the nontrad forum needs more silliness. :hardy:

                                              I agree. I spend way too much time in pre-allo!

                                              Most people who regret their choice of specialty are the ones who went into a field b/c of their genuine interest in the field and DID NOT consider money/lifestyle.

                                              Well then I'm gonna hope and pray that I fall in love with one of the ROAD fields :xf:

                                              I gotta love what I do. I know what it feels like waking up dreading work and I don't think any amount of money could make up for the life it sucks out of me.

                                              How do so many pre-meds choose a specialty before they get into med school?
                                               

                                              Law2Doc

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                                                ...

                                                I asked a question. You seem to think that NO ONE goes into medicine for $$$, which seems to me to be the rose-colored lens, not me asking a question. No job is all peaches and cream, they all have pros and cons, the cons to a high paying residency is hard work to get there, the pros are the perks.

                                                I'm saying that few people who have experienced real life outside of being a premed would think that a career where you spent a decade of school and training and then ended up working 50+ hours/week doing something you didn't enjoy was a good idea. If you disagree, then you may want to take a step back and really think things through, because you are creating a prison sentence for yourself. Sure every job has pros and cons, but few involve the investment of schooling, training, debt and will require more hours of the day to maintain proficiency as medicine. Saying everybody hates their job, or that every job has its cons is really just a cop out, and only pertains to people who don't have as many choices in life. If you are pumping gas or stocking shelves, you can say, "hey no biggie, everyone hates their job" and just live for the weekend. Someone who can get into medicine has a multitide of choices in life, and is a fool if he picks one that he doesn't enjoy. Don't con yourself into thinking it's all the same, and that so what if you hate it, at least it pays well. That kind of thinking cannot sustain you on this path.

                                                Medicine is a job of endless learning, not something you can do well unless you stay immersed in it, even to some extent when you go home at the end of the day. There are plenty of jobs where when you finish at the end of the day you are done, there are no things you feel you need to know or look up, nobody you have to call in and check up on. Most non-physician jobs let you start working right out of college or graduate school and let you train on the job, rather than have you do a lengthy residency first. Medicine is just, well different. And so no, only a very naive person would go into medicine saying, yeah, I will kill myself in med school and then be run ragged for 4 years in residency to get a job I don't enjoy. THAT is what I am calling pre-allo colored glasses. Folks who lack the experience to "get it".

                                                If you truly worked 10+ years and don't get this, something doesn't compute. And it's not my rose colored glasses. You have to enjoy this field, or don't do it. It's too many years of hard work, too many hours of your life, only to look at it as a steady paycheck. Talk to more folks who became doctors in recent years. Sounds like your perspective is a bit off. And your prior post is a bit odd -- you suggest that some dermatologist you know is in it for the wrong reasons, and then you take my post awfully personally. Maybe I unearthed something.
                                                 
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