Are there Little 4, Lesser 4 schools?

[Shoushu]

Want to see which schools offer the next best range of state boards' approvals?

We all know the Big 4 can get licensed in all 50 states. They can practice on every square mile of US soil.

What about the next 4, or 8, or 12 schools that can practice in maybe 45, 40, or 30 states? Are they there? Who are they?

Maybe the next best thing can only practice in 40 or so, since I read about more states follow the CA List, and if 25 states follow CA, then it seems like one can't practice in half the U.S. Then what do their students do?

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[schandan13]

The list is endless. Somewhat better known schools are AUA, MUA and St. Matthews. Their students do manage to get residencies (maybe not in all 50 states). But yes, these come after the Big 4. To be honest, there is no such thing as big 4/lesser 4. Ofcourse you would be considered better/more competent if you went to AUC/SGU/Ross/SABA but they're STILL Caribbean schools and you will be referred to as a Caribbean grad. You ALREADY have the odds against you if you go off-shore. Why further decrease your chances by attending one of the "lesser 4/8/12 schools ?"

So, unless you're looking to apply to any of these schools, I don't see the point of ranking schools beyond the top 5-6.

 

[Shoushu]

The list is endless. Somewhat better known schools are AUA, MUA and St. Matthews. Their students do manage to get residencies (maybe not in all 50 states). But yes, these come after the Big 4. To be honest, there is no such thing as big 4/lesser 4. Ofcourse you would be considered better/more competent if you went to AUC/SGU/Ross/SABA but they're STILL Caribbean schools and you will be referred to as a Caribbean grad. You ALREADY have the odds against you if you go off-shore. Why further decrease your chances by attending one of the "lesser 4/8/12 schools ?"


So, unless you're looking to apply to any of these schools, I don't see the point of ranking schools beyond the top 5-6.

SGU and Ross are reach schools for me where I'm more likely getting rejected than accepted. If I can do SGU Premed or Ross's MERP program, I'd go for MERP or whatever SGU-equivalent. Saba and AUC are smaller. I prefer large schools; they have more grads and better resources, infrastructure, clinical sites/hospitals. Of course, any of the Big 4 offers widest residency application potential. If I can't be resident, what's the point?

Just for safety valve's sake, need good safety schools, ones I don't mind spending 4 years and get MD, ones that can serve as stepping stones for career

Thanks for ideas. I made safety list of: MUA, AUA, St. Matthews, St. James... I can't think of many with both good size and reputation... don't know how hard is it to transfer from lesser school to top school ...except it's very doable from MUA to Saba I hear (they're sister schools, MUA, Saba are owned by same group)

I really don't care where to practice medicine, any state in the U.S. or parts of Asia. I don't want to be shut out of residency pool, if I can't have a fighting chance, what's the use

 

[schandan13]

I don't want to be shut out of residency pool.

By going this route you are already putting yourself at a slight disadvantage. And SGU doesn't take transfers. People do transfer out to US school though.

 

[LebLlama]

If you're a carribean grad and want to go into primary care/family medicine.... is it still hard to get into US residency?

 

[Shoushu]

If you're a carribean grad and want to go into primary care/family medicine.... is it still hard to get into US residency?

These are the least selective residencies right? I don't think it'll be hard. In how many states can one be resident is another Q. I know Big 4 can get into residencies in all 50, but not sure about the other caribbean med schools

 

[RussianJoo]

primary care residencies are still hard to get. over all about 50% of all carib grads match into a residency, 50% don't and that includes primary care residencies. even at a place like SGU about 25% of the students don't match and they would be more than happy if they could get a primary care residency. There's something like 15,000 or 20,000 more applicants each year than there are residency spots in the US.

don't be fooled into thinking that just because I just want a primary care residency I can go to a caribbean school or a lesser known school and I'll be fine, because chance are you won't be fine.

 

[dragonfly99]

primary care residencies are still hard to get. over all about 50% of all carib grads match into a residency, 50% don't and that includes primary care residencies. even at a place like SGU about 25% of the students don't match and they would be more than happy if they could get a primary care residency. There's something like 15,000 or 20,000 more applicants each year than there are residency spots in the US.

don't be fooled into thinking that just because I just want a primary care residency I can go to a caribbean school or a lesser known school and I'll be fine, because chance are you won't be fine.

I agree w/you to some degree. However, if they get into St George and actually graduate and they just want primary care residency of SOME kind at SOME residency program, chances are they will be fine, eventually, right? Is it really true that 25% of SGU grads don't match on the 1st try? That's pretty dismal. It must be higher than that if you count people who prematched, etc., right? And a lot of the nonmatched probably matched the next year (I mean from SGU, not necessarily some of these other schools), right? However, people may not realize that they may not want residency at just ANY old place, and waiting a year and sitting it out waiting on a residency would totally suck, also. There are some places that don't train their residents very well, or work them like dogs, or just have a generally crappy work environment. It would totally suck to be stuck in a residency like that for 3 years.

 

[RussianJoo]

I personally know over a dozen people who didn't match and didn't prematch in 2009 and 2010.. I am sure there are just as many that i don't know. I don't know how many take prematches.. Our Chancelor sent out an email a few years and said that out of those that apply and go through the match only 74% end up matching. So that's still a significant percent. I doubt more than 15 to 20% of the class prematches.. those that don't match definitely don't prematch... so a significant # of people don't match or prematch every year. not sure what happens for them the following year.

 

[schandan13]

Did they have bad scores ? Were they applying to super competitive specialties ? Visa issues ?

 

[RussianJoo]

some applying to competitive residencies, some had poor step scores and needed visa's some had good scores and needed visas and just weren't lucky. some just didn't apply to enough places cause they thought they were competitive for the specialty they were applying to. Many were able to get one year spots but those don't lead to anything. one guy did his internship 2 times in surgery and now he won't even get accepted into family medicine cause he wasted 2 years of his government funding. basically people don't match from SGU every year it's pretty common, most just get unlucky. I've noticed visa issues are a big problem for people, not too many places want to go through the hastle of sponsering one especially when there are hundreds of applicants without visa issues with the same scores applying to the same programs.

 

[Californian]

MUA,AUA, and SMU are included in the big 7

 

[thechad]

MUA,AUA, and SMU are included in the big 7

And all the other schools are included in the big 58

 

[Californian]

And all the other schools are included in the big 58

there are no 58 schools LOL

 

[RussianJoo]

there are no 58 schools LOL

there's no such thing as the big 7.

 

[Shoushu]

there are no 58 schools LOL

lots of carib schools. Too many choices. I think by now, there are 59, or 60??

In the IMED (international medical education directory) by WHO, there are a total of btw 1800 to 2000 medical schools, the caribbean region alone has 50+, not including new ones, so if I think real hard, I can come up with 58 names.

If MUA, AUA, and St. Matthews, and St. James get California approval, they might be included with Big 4 into the Big 8. Sort of like the IV (4) League Schools (harvard, yale, princeton, U Penn), accepted four more schools into the ranks, and became the Ivy League of ancient eight schools.