are there really classes which will have a 42 test average?

[FuturepharmD343]

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I keep hearing how some classes are like that..then how is it possible to keep a 2.5/3.0 average?

How is the grading scale in pharmacy school?
What grade is an A+, A, A-, B+, etc..

 

[owlegrad]

I keep hearing how some classes are like that..then how is it possible to keep a 2.5/3.0 average?

How is the grading scale in pharmacy school?
What grade is an A+, A, A-, B+, etc..

I am pretty sure if we ever had an average that low my classmates would revolt. We use a standard grading scale in most classes.

 

[nrsair]

Have you not had any classes like that in undergrad? My first p-chem test had an average in the upper 50s and that was higher than the professor expected. That class wasn't curved. My dad tells stories of his EE classes at Georgia Tech where a 40 was a B. It's a necessary reality check to some kids, IMO.

 

[owlegrad]

Have you not had any classes like that in undergrad? My first p-chem test had an average in the upper 50s and that was higher than the professor expected. That class wasn't curved. My dad tells stories of his EE classes at Georgia Tech where a 40 was a B. It's a necessary reality check to some kids, IMO.

Didn't take p-chem (thank God).

My calc II class had averages in the 50's but it was curved, so who cares? I have never taken a class where the scaled scores averaged in the 50's.

 

[crazybob]

I keep hearing how some classes are like that..then how is it possible to keep a 2.5/3.0 average?

How is the grading scale in pharmacy school?
What grade is an A+, A, A-, B+, etc..

The grading scale depends on the professor.

You pretty much try to study as much as you can, and hope you do well enough on the exams. If you don't do well at any point, you have to figure out what works quickly and bring your grades back up.

 

[diastole]

My first exam in college had an average of 39. It was quite the wake-up call. My engineering friend told me about an exam with an average of 19. Nearly all my classes were curved.

In pharm school, all the classes are pass/no pass but you have to get a 90% to pass. That forces everyone to study harder but I'm pretty sure our exams aren't as hard as they could be because they don't want half the class flunking out.

 

[confettiflyer]

Have you not had any classes like that in undergrad? My first p-chem test had an average in the upper 50s and that was higher than the professor expected. That class wasn't curved. My dad tells stories of his EE classes at Georgia Tech where a 40 was a B. It's a necessary reality check to some kids, IMO.

i know right...my old ochem classes saw a 40 as the mean, and the cutoffs for grades were +/- 1 SD. straight scaled tests weird me out still.

 

[confettiflyer]

In pharm school, all the classes are pass/no pass but you have to get a 90% to pass. That forces everyone to study harder but I'm pretty sure our exams aren't as hard as they could be because they don't want half the class flunking out.

Only a few schools are like this (all P/F), most are traditionally graded.

 

[diastole]

Only a few schools are like this (all P/F), most are traditionally graded.

Sorry, I meant in my pharm school as opposed to my undergrad education. I didn't mean to imply that all the schools work the same way.

 

[confettiflyer]

Sorry, I meant in my pharm school as opposed to my undergrad education. I didn't mean to imply that all the schools work the same way.

Curious though, how does that work for a) Rho Chi, b) residency GPA requirements, and c) other random things that generally expect a GPA/class rank or percentile?

Is everyone assumed to be an an A/90%+ student? Just wondering how you guys work around it. Or is it more like pass w/ high honors, pass, and no-pass?

 

[oh no dont stop]

I think curving exams/classes is silly. In real life, things are not curved. If you mess up and someone gets hurt, that error is on you.

Granted curving is silly, but so are exams that are designed for the student to fail.

 

[Sparda29]

My physics midterm back in undergrad had an average of 24. Lowest grade was a 4, and the highest grade was an 82. I was happy with my 79. It was almost the same story with the final. Average was in the 30s, highest was an 75, which was me but I still got a C+ in the class because he didn't curve.

I later found out that the professor failed like 15/30 people in the class.

 

[eagles22]

I think curving exams/classes is silly. In real life, things are not curved. If you mess up and someone gets hurt, that error is on you.

Granted curving is silly, but so are exams that are designed for the student to fail.

In real life you look things up and don't rely solely on memory. Standard testing is an artificial measure of clinical ability.

 

[diastole]

Curious though, how does that work for a) Rho Chi, b) residency GPA requirements, and c) other random things that generally expect a GPA/class rank or percentile?

Is everyone assumed to be an an A/90%+ student? Just wondering how you guys work around it. Or is it more like pass w/ high honors, pass, and no-pass?

There is just one version of pass. We don't have Rho Chi and I have heard that there are some residency programs that flat out won't take grads from schools like ours because we don't have a GPA. I have heard that the dean will write some kind of letter giving an approximate rank if you apply to a program that requires a GPA but the truth is that having no GPA is a disadvantage. Sucks for me because I'm a good student and I think I would have a pretty decent GPA at a normal school. It works much better for those students who like to be president of every club but don't want to spend all their time trying to get a high GPA.

 

[confettiflyer]

I think curving exams/classes is silly. In real life, things are not curved. If you mess up and someone gets hurt, that error is on you.

Granted curving is silly, but so are exams that are designed for the student to fail.

Disagree...if you design an exam where a majority of the class is piled up against the 90-100% mark, how do you know where people stand?

Example, imagine a sprint race that was only 2 feet long. You start the race and everyone finishes at about the same time, not very useful in determining who the fastest person is.

An exam with a 32 average is like having a 100m race, you get to pile on harder and harder material as an instructor to see what people are picking up. You truly get to see the top 10% whereas standard deviations and means are less useful when half the class is scoring 95-100/100.

Most top universities go this route for their undergrad/lower division courses when you have an n=500-1000 in one class. It's less useful when your n=32 in an upper div lab.

Another aside, whoever said that school and real life were related?

 

[owlegrad]

I think curving exams/classes is silly. In real life, things are not curved. If you mess up and someone gets hurt, that error is on you.

Granted curving is silly, but so are exams that are designed for the student to fail.

INR are you presented with three wrong options and one right one? Are you allowed to use outside resources? Can you use a scantron and a #2 pencil?

Testing is so far removed from real life that comparing the two is silly. And I would say that work performance is at least partially judged based on the norm in your facility, so it is "curved" in a sense.

 

[bacillus1]

Not 42, but averages around 65-70 aren't too uncommon with therapeutics exams here, and that can be after they give some points back for poorly worded questions.

 

[rxlea]

Our exam averages are in the mid 80's. Lots of smarties in my class. The tests aren't that easy, either. In undergrad, the test averages were in the 70's- usually the typical Bell Curve. Physics was the only one with a lower average in the 60's, at least that I remember... But I did hear in other classes, they were lower.

 

[UES Girl]

At my school, there are no +/-. There is no grade inflation and there is no curving. You get what you earn, hence you got 62 - you get a D, no one is going to curve you up to a C.

No rounding offs of points either - my 89.5 in biochem forever remainded a B and lots of other people 1-0.5 points away got what they earned. Tough and frustrating at times, but at least it's fair you have really no one other than yourself to blame or praise for your accomplishments. 🙂

 

[oh no dont stop]

In real life you look things up and don't rely solely on memory. Standard testing is an artificial measure of clinical ability.

Not to mention inaccurate measure of ability.

 

[Sparda29]

I think it would be much better if they did away with testing, and instead grading was based on research projects, presentations, papers, etc.

 

[type b pharmD]

I think it would be much better if they did away with testing, and instead grading was based on research projects, presentations, papers, etc.

that would be terrible for people with adhd or organizationally challenged. maybe if this was a school that was clinical faculty training ground... but in retail, (60+% of pharmacists) , you perform the job by being a cashier with application of memorized facts to make decisions about stuff, not preparing posters, writing papers, and researching

 

[Sparda29]

that would be terrible for people with adhd or organizationally challenged. maybe if this was a school that was clinical faculty training ground... but in retail, (60+% of pharmacists) , you perform the job by being a cashier with application of memorized facts to make decisions about stuff, not preparing posters, writing papers, and researching

You don't think those papers, research, and project are going to make you memorize facts?

 

[Sine Cura]

There is a faculty member at my school notorious for having exams with means in the 40-50 range. I'm skeptical the exams are actually that hard since most people seem not to take this course (part of the PharmD curriculum) seriously or anything requiring conceptual thinking as opposed to rote memorization is too hard.

I agree that difficult exams are good for making arrogant, entitled little freshmen more humble (as was once done to me).