Are there URMs other than race-based, like rural-based?

[dorian baltar]

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I feel like there should be multiple threads about this, but I can't find them due to the plethora of threads about URMs based on race. There is no option for this in the Medical School Matriculants Data spreadsheet. I've been looking online and looking through posts for over half an hour, I'm sorry if this has already been covered.
I thought I read that URMs can also be from underserved areas. I grew up near a very small, likely underserved town.
1)Are underserved populations an URM?
2)If so, how do I determine whether I am one? Is there a list? This is one of the things I searched for, but I could not find, even after looking at the NHSC.

 

[GoPelicans]

URM is based on race, nothing else. If you are not black, Latino, or Native American, you are not URM. Some schools also includes certain ethnicities are URM (EG Colorado counts Viatnamese).

You will have opportunities elsewhere in the application to mention that you are from a rural area, but you are most definitely not URM.

 

[dorian baltar]

URM is based on race, nothing else. If you are not black, Latino, or Native American, you are not URM. Some schools also includes certain ethnicities are URM (EG Colorado counts Viatnamese as URM).

You will have opportunities elsewhere in the application to mention that you are from a rural area, but you are most definitely not URM.

Oh well. Less AA for me then 😛

 

[circulus vitios]

Some rural medical schools care about applicants from rural backgrounds...but the majority of their students are still from urban areas.

 

[Wasted Energy]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but if you were from a rural area and were interested in pursuing rural medicine, would a certain activity or EC be necessary to demonstrate (validate) this interest to adcoms?

 

[Goro]

YES! because plenty of people talk the talk of wanting to do rural medicine, but most doctors end up in pratice in (surprise!) urban or suburban regions.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but if you were from a rural area and were interested in pursuing rural medicine, would a certain activity or EC be necessary to demonstrate (validate) this interest to adcoms?

 

[Goro]

Kind of parallel, I'm told that some schools hold seats for applicants from particular geographic regions, like U WA for Alaska residents.

URM is based on race, nothing else. If you are not black, Latino, or Native American, you are not URM. Some schools also includes certain ethnicities are URM (EG Colorado counts Viatnamese).

You will have opportunities elsewhere in the application to mention that you are from a rural area, but you are most definitely not URM.

 

[dorian baltar]

YES! because plenty of people talk the talk of wanting to do rural medicine, but most doctors end up in pratice in (surprise!) urban or suburban regions.

What activities would indicate that someone wants to actually do primary care in a rural area?
I didn't realize people lied about wanting to work in rural areas 0_o

 

[Goro]

It would help if they're actually from a rural area, or spent some significant time there, or did a significant activity in such a place. I'll be a liittle more leery about someone from the suburbs of Seattle than someone who was a camp counselor in rural eastern WA state, for example, or someone actually from, say, Hanford, WA.

What activities would indicate that someone wants to actually do primary care in a rural area?
I didn't realize people lied about wanting to work in rural areas 0_o

 

[Wasted Energy]

YES! because plenty of people talk the talk of wanting to do rural medicine, but most doctors end up in pratice in (surprise!) urban or suburban regions.

Right, I figured as much. That's a shame really.

Well, if being born and raised in a rural, underserved county/region doesn't cut it then I guess we'll all have to find some way (EC) to demonstrate our commitment to rural medicine. Although, the nature of a "rural environment" tends to make that slightly difficult.

 

[Goro]

See my post immeditely above yours.

Right, I figured as much. That's a shame really.

Well, if being born and raised in a rural, underserved county/region doesn't cut it then I guess we'll all have to find some way (EC) to demonstrate our commitment to rural medicine. Although, the nature of a "rural environment" tends to make that slightly difficult.

 

[Wasted Energy]

See my post immeditely above yours.

I read it, but maybe I misunderstood. Are you saying that simply being from a rural area is sufficient? I only ask because I haven't had many significant medically-related experiences in my hometown. Most of that has been in a large city (at school). Because of this, part of me feels like an adcom would think "sure you know rural, but you don't know rural medicine."

Also, I don't want come off as trying to present myself as rural when I may not be. I think of my town as rural, and it is classified by the government as a rural, medically-underserved population, but I can't help but think it's not rural enough. If that makes any sense.

 

[Goro]

Yup, being from a rural area gives you some street in the "put your money where your mouth is" dep't.

[quote="Wasted Energy, post: 14630614, member: 578382"]I read it, but maybe I misunderstood. Are you saying that simply being from a rural area is sufficient? I only ask because I haven't had many significant medically-related experiences in my hometown.

No AdCom member is going to think like that.

Most of that has been in a large city (at school). Because of this, part of me feels like an adcom would think "sure you know rural, but you don't know rural medicine."

 

[Espadaleader]

When you apply to medical school via AMCAS you have to tell them what county you are from. If you are from an under served county you will see a "U" next to your county name. Being from an underserved county is considered disadvantaged. You will get a boost in admissions.

 

[LizzyM]

When you apply to medical school via AMCAS you have to tell them what county you are from. If you are from an under served county you will see a "U" next to your county name. Being from an underserved county is considered disadvantaged. You will get a boost in admissions.

Following up on Espadaleader's post, if you are from a rural county (as defined by the gov't), you will see an (R) next to your county name. Being from a (R) county is not considered "disadvantaged" but it is considered "under-represented" and you *may* get a boost in admissions, particularly if a school has a mission of training physicians for rural areas.

Shadowing a physician in a rural area might be a good idea (I've even seen arrangements where a shadow lives with the physician for a week to see what the life is like.) If your school has any alumni who practice rural medicine, the alumni office might help you identify them and reach out to them.

 

[rain4venus]

What activities would indicate that someone wants to actually do primary care in a rural area?
I didn't realize people lied about wanting to work in rural areas 0_o

They also lie about wanting to do primary care to fit some schools' mission statements.

 

[Wasted Energy]

Following up on Espadaleader's post, if you are from a rural county (as defined by the gov't), you will see an (R) next to your county name. Being from a (R) county is not considered "disadvantaged" but it is considered "under-represented" and you *may* get a boost in admissions, particularly if a school has a mission of training physicians for rural areas.

It's good to know that it's automatically verified by AMCAS, and that you don't have to fill out forms/jump through hoops to prove it.

 

[Mr Avante]

what are some rural areas in usa?

 

[circulus vitios]

what are some rural areas in usa?

Uhhh...

 

[La Presse]

what are some rural areas in usa?

Probably the entire midwest. 😆

 

[ChemEngMD]

what are some rural areas in usa?

Everything from light orange to pale yellow is rural. And even some of the orange areas are rural since its done by county.

 

[CyberMaxx]

Wow, I didn't realize that nobody lives in Alaska.

When you apply to medical school via AMCAS you have to tell them what county you are from. If you are from an under served county you will see a "U" next to your county name. Being from an underserved county is considered disadvantaged. You will get a boost in admissions.

How much do you think schools really value this? After I read your post I checked my application and noticed that every place I have lived is classified as (U), yet I have lived in the two biggest cities (with the two biggest hospital systems) in my state. Since counties can include vastly diverse areas, some affluent and others poor, do you think this information is really useful? I'm honestly asking here 😉

 

[GoPelicans]

Wow, I didn't realize that nobody lives in Alaska.

Check out the capital of Alaska (Juneau) on google maps street view... it looks like a small town.

 

[Mr Avante]

Uhhh...

Probably the entire midwest. 😆

Everything from light orange to pale yellow is rural. And even some of the orange areas are rural since its done by county.

Thanks for the info guys.
I am swedish; thus, I hardly consider the usa to have rural regions.

 

[rain4venus]

Thanks for the info guys.
I am swedish; thus, I hardly consider the usa to have rural regions.

The US has more land area that's rural than sweden does (in other words, the US has more rural land area than the entire land area of sweden - several times over)

 

[dorian baltar]

Thanks for the info guys.
I am swedish; thus, I hardly consider the usa to have rural regions.

Thirty percent of the states in the USA have population densities less than that of Sweden. Also, unless you live north of the Stockholm metropolitan area and inland, most of the USA has a lower population density than where you live.
I don't see why you don't consider the USA to have rural regions. Did you just not know much about its geography and demographics until now?

 

[Mr Avante]

The US has more land area that's rural than sweden does (in other words, the US has more rural land area than the entire land area of sweden - several times over)

Thirty percent of the states in the USA have population densities less than that of Sweden. Also, unless you live north of the Stockholm metropolitan area and inland, most of the USA has a lower population density than where you live.
I don't see why you don't consider the USA to have rural regions. Did you just not know much about its geography and demographics until now?

I based my statement on the fact that I am from another country and know very little of yours, and was never comparing agronomic areas.
To me, rural isn't something pretty like this:

but rather, this:

However, I do now like both of your opinions, and begin to understand all the sdn talk about "rural america."

 

[LizzyM]

Whether or not a school cares that you are in a (R) and/or (U) area depends on the school and its mission which may depend on its funding (state schools charged with educating physicians to serve the needs of that state might care more than private reserach powerhouses care).

Manhattan (New York City) is (U) even though there are 4 medical schools and countless hospitals in that county (which encompasses the island of Manhattan). This is because although there are plenty of doctors, there is a shortage of primary care providers. When you need a primary care doc, you aren't looking for a endocrine surgeon or a neuroradiologist.

The funny thing about rural areas... we don't realize they are there because very few of us live in rural areas or know people who do. (Think about it...)

 

[LizzyM]

I based my statement on the fact that I am from another country and know very little of yours, and was never comparing agronomic areas.
To me, rural isn't something pretty like this:

but rather, this:

However, I do now like both of your opinions, and begin to understand all the sdn talk about "rural america."

rural does not mean destitute poor, although there are poor people in rural areas. It means sparsely populated. It is generally associated with farms, ranches, and some mining. Some people in rural areas can be economically successful businessmen.

 

[Mr Avante]

rural does not mean destitute poor, although there are poor people in rural areas. It means sparsely populated. It is generally associated with farms, ranches, and some mining. Some people in rural areas can be economically successful businessmen.

I just figured that by googling "rural america" and making heavy translations.
Very weird rural areas you have there liz. It seems like a nice place to live.

 

[rain4venus]

I just figured that by googling "rural america" and making heavy translations.
Very weird rural areas you have there liz. It seems like a nice place to live.

Speaking as someone from the rural US, I'm not sure if you are aware of how condescending you're being.
Not to mention that I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the third picture you posted was not from Sweden. Rural Sweden looks pretty similar to rural US to me:

In fact, this might be my exact dream house. It looks like not all of rural Sweden is impoverished either.

 

[cookiemonsters]

The US has more land area that's rural than sweden does (in other words, the US has more rural land area than the entire land area of sweden - several times over)

wow why the hell can't Indian and Chinese people stop having sex?

 

[rain4venus]

wow why the hell can't Indian and Chinese people stop having sex?

What was crazy to me is that about half of China is rural, but ALL of India is dark red. I've never been to China, but I went to India a couple years ago, and it was crazy that in areas that appeared very rural (few buildings, lots of open land, etc...), there were still TONS of people everywhere.

 

[Mr Avante]

Speaking as someone from the rural US, I'm not sure if you are aware of how condescending you're being.
Not to mention that I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the third picture you posted was not from Sweden. Rural Sweden looks pretty similar to rural US to me:

In fact, this might be my exact dream house. It looks like not all of rural Sweden is impoverished either.

Again, pal, I am not trying to contrast Sweden with United States. Rid yourself of that idea.
No one in Sweden calls that a rural area, that's why I asked where there were rural areas in the US - It was a legitimate question.
To our culture, rural is depicted exactly like my picture.

 

[rain4venus]

Again, pal, I am not trying to contrast Sweden with United States. Rid yourself of that idea.
No one in Sweden calls that a rural area, that's why I asked where there were rural areas in the US - It was a legitimate question.
To our culture, rural is depicted exactly like my picture.

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood when you said this:

I am swedish; thus, I hardly consider the usa to have rural regions.

This sounded like you were saying that since Sweden has real rural areas, you don't consider the USA to have rural areas by comparison. Now I see that what you meant is that because English isn't your first language, you don't know the exact definition of "rural" which is fair. As LizzyM said, the word "rural" doesn't carry the denotation of "poor" although there is a fairly high percentage of rural residents that are poor, so there may be some connotation. I couldn't find a single dictionary definition that even implied a link between rurality and destitution. "Rural" just means relating to country instead of city. (and occasionally relating to agriculture)

Though that still doesn't explain the offensive nature of your post with the picture of the tractor. Using the word "pal" like you did in this post is also pretty condescending. I'm not sure if all this is just a language barrier thing or if it's intentional. To be fair, I be extra sensitive after the exchange of you telling me that it's not possible for an engineer to leave engineering.

That's the end of the hijack for me. Sorry!

 

[Mr Avante]

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood when you said this:

This sounded like you were saying that since Sweden has real rural areas, you don't consider the USA to have rural areas by comparison. Now I see that what you meant is that because English isn't your first language, you don't know the exact definition of "rural" which is fair. As LizzyM said, the word "rural" doesn't carry the denotation of "poor" although there is a fairly high percentage of rural residents that are poor, so there may be some connotation. I couldn't find a single dictionary definition that even implied a link between rurality and destitution. "Rural" just means relating to country instead of city. (and occasionally relating to agriculture)

What I meant was:
"I am a foreigner; hence, I don't know a lot about your country."

Though that still doesn't explain the offensive nature of your post with the picture of the tractor. Using the word "pal" like you did in this post is also pretty condescending. I'm not sure if all this is just a language barrier thing or if it's intentional. To be fair, I be extra sensitive after the exchange of you telling me that it's not possible for an engineer to leave engineering.

Forgive me if I hurt your feelings. I use pal, mate, and friend, instead of bud, bro, and dude.
For the little racing tractor, I just discovered that this morning - Including this other picture:

A racing lawn mower! I guess they are just american things.

Now, for the engineering part, I based my comment on european engineering. So, forgive me once again.
Europe has huge pride in medicine and engineering - to leave any of them is unforgivable in our society.

 

[LizzyM]

@MrAvante, I'm not sure why you are here but you are going to be schooled rather quickly in colloquial American English. Pal, mate, and friend can be considered condescending, or even outright insulting, particularly on a message board among strangers. You might want to read and observe more until you understand our language and culture. Are you intending to attend medical school in the US or elsewhere?

 

[rohirette]

Hmmm...

What exactly defines the county that you are "from?"

I spent the first 23 years of my life in very rural areas, and the next 7 in a city trying to figure out how to move back. My current zip code is urban, but that does NOT represent who I am, where I plan to live and most certainly not where I'll eventually practice!

Is the county of current address the determiner, or a lifetime before it?

 

[LizzyM]

Hmmm...

What exactly defines the county that you are "from?"

I spent the first 23 years of my life in very rural areas, and the next 7 in a city trying to figure out how to move back. My current zip code is urban, but that does NOT represent who I am, where I plan to live and most certainly not where I'll eventually practice!

Is the county of current address the determiner, or a lifetime before it?

Your birthplace is listed on the AMCAS application and it will be tagged automatically with a (U) and/or (R) if it is within the US and fits the criteria for either or both of those designations.

You can also thread this interest in rural medicine and your ties to rural areas into your personal statement.

 

[Wasted Energy]

You can also thread this interest in rural medicine and your ties to rural areas into your personal statement.

I think this is a good point, because as someone who was raised in a rural area, it doesn't seem out of the ordinary or unique to want to practice rural medicine. Therefore, it may not even cross an applicant's mind to include that information in his/her personal statement because to him/her, a passion for medicine in general is a passion for rural medicine. There is really no distinction in their mind because rural = normal.

 

[circulus vitios]

What I meant was:
"I am a foreigner; hence, I don't know a lot about your country."

Forgive me if I hurt your feelings. I use pal, mate, and friend, instead of bud, bro, and dude.
For the little racing tractor, I just discovered that this morning - Including this other picture:

A racing lawn mower! I guess they are just american things.

Now, for the engineering part, I based my comment on european engineering. So, forgive me once again.
Europe has huge pride in medicine and engineering - to leave any of them is unforgivable in our society.

You might want to explore your country a little more. Tractor pulls and other redneck things are big in Sweden, too.



edit: I didn't mean that insultingly, either. Tractor pulls are pretty badass.

 

[rain4venus]

Your birthplace is listed on the AMCAS application and it will be tagged automatically with a (U) and/or (R) if it is within the US and fits the criteria for either or both of those designations.

Hmmm... So the U/R is based on where you're born? What about people from areas with no OB access who drive hours to give birth in a small city? Or does it do that for things like the location of your high school as well?
Just seems like looking only at birth city would give you a lot of false negatives. (though very few false positives - I'm one of the only people I've known who would rather give birth in a smaller town...)
ETA: Obviously you can still write about being from a rural area pretty easily if you grew up there, even if you were born in a city, I was just curious about the auto U/R statuses.

 

[rain4venus]

.

 

[LizzyM]

Hmmm... So the U/R is based on where you're born? What about people from areas with no OB access who drive hours to give birth in a small city? Or does it do that for things like the location of your high school as well?
Just seems like looking only at birth city would give you a lot of false negatives. (though very few false positives - I'm one of the only people I've known who would rather give birth in a smaller town...)
ETA: Obviously you can still write about being from a rural area pretty easily if you grew up there, even if you were born in a city, I was just curious about the auto U/R statuses.

This is based on the county in which you were born and the county in which you currently live and your legal residence. That can be three different places or all the same place. IIRC, there is also the county you grew up in but that's on a different page and is optional. Sure there could be false negatives (listed as negative for rural when is actually rural); if you are interested in rural medicine mention it in the PS!

 

[sazerac]

When you apply to the University of Washington, a school with a real emphasis on rural medicine, you list your previous 10 towns and their populations.

I spent some time prior living on a boat, so I reported "Atlantic Ocean, population 2" for those years, lol.