Supreme Court Ruling, Race based admissions.

[2024 or 5 ?]

Interested in thoughts on the recent Supreme Court ruling on race in college admissions, and how it will affect medical school admissions.

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[LizzyM]

Here's the end of the Court's opinion: "nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. But, despite the dissent's assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today."

So, it is almost as if AAMC could foresee the need for the Other Impact essay. Too late for most of you today but this will be the way going forward. Keep it in mind, Grasshoppers.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Here's the end of the Court's opinion: "nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. But, despite the dissent's assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today."

So, it is almost as if AAMC could foresee the need for the Other Impact essay. Too late for most of you today but this will be the way going forward. Keep it in mind, Grasshoppers.

AAMC has been giving advice for admissions committees and med school administrators for my entire time in the field. All the higher ed consulting firms to universities have their webinars set up for the next few weeks as all legal counsels and consultants are reviewing the FIVE-plus opinions. Again, several public schools have been running admissions processes without race as a factor since 2003 (including California, 1996 referendum; 2020 failed repeal referendum). It just cannot be an issue in isolation.

Mission fit, mission fit, mission fit...

 

[TxMed55]

I asked this on reddit but it got banned which I think is comical to not people talk this out. While I see very much both sides I think that especially in undergrad I feel like there will be a decrease in diversity. What Im curious is how bias may play into into if an applicant states his race/situation in an essay that the admission committee is reading ? Also how do yall think this will change this cycle ? a friend of mine that is going into law school is persistent that med schools will not be able to use URM / ORM anymore starting this cycle

 

[MrPuff]

I imagine a simple algorithm could still sort all the applications by whatever metric the medical school deems important.

 

[Arbiter604]

Here's the end of the Court's opinion: "nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. But, despite the dissent's assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today."

So, it is almost as if AAMC could foresee the need for the Other Impact essay. Too late for most of you today but this will be the way going forward. Keep it in mind, Grasshoppers.

So essentially if applicants have a story about how they were impacted by their race and grew from it it can be considered? That makes much more sense than the current system of checking a box.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I asked this on reddit but it got banned which I think is comical to not people talk this out. While I see very much both sides I think that especially in undergrad I feel like there will be a decrease in diversity. What Im curious is how bias may play into into if an applicant states his race/situation in an essay that the admission committee is reading ?

The flash summaries I'm hearing (MSNBC broadcast) point out the issues.

I think the WP just posted an article about diversity in states where a similar AA ban was enacted for years. UC undergrad minority populations from historically marginalized races and ethnicities dropped by 50% the year after the AA ban referendum was passed. WP article today "State bans on affirmative action helped White, Asian students, hurt others" is the title.

At this time, and as @LizzyM points out, nothing in the decision says that applicants cannot mention race in any prompted application essays. However, the information cannot be used by admissions processes to somehow promote or save applicants for further consideration if another factor in the process argues against the application. Applicants should be reflective to articulate how the inequities they have or their peers have experienced that may be based on systemic racism/supremacy motivates them as future leaders and healthcare providers.

My concern is that there will be more anti-Asian resentment from underrepresented minority groups that have otherwise been helped with affirmative action. The moment when HPYSM undergrad student bodies have an Asian-majority population (say 40%), let's see if there is any backlash. As it stands there is Asian resentment in California, especially on the self-resentment side of things, and I often worry seeing it be perpetuated in our WAMC posts.

 

[Pipi&Pomegranate]

Diversity in Medical School Admissions

Updates and information for the academic medicine community in advance of and after the Supreme Court rulings on race-conscious admissions.

www.aamc.org

 

[Lawpy]

Can we end legacy admissions next?

 

[pandabear121]

Here are admissions stats by race btw: Medical School Acceptance Rates by Race (2023): Does Ethnicity Play a Role? — Shemmassian Academic Consulting
This also applies to T20s- for example, 38% of Stanford's class is URM: https://med.stanford.edu/content/da...-Faculty-Roles-2020-21-with-Class-Profile.pdf


I'm really interested in seeing this cycle's results and how the differ from next cycle as schools adjust to this.

 

[Stoasty]

Here are admissions stats by race btw: Medical School Acceptance Rates by Race (2023): Does Ethnicity Play a Role? — Shemmassian Academic Consulting
This also applies to T20s- for example, 38% of Stanford's class is URM: https://med.stanford.edu/content/da...-Faculty-Roles-2020-21-with-Class-Profile.pdf


I'm really interested in seeing this cycle's results and how the differ from next cycle as schools adjust to this.

I thought AA was already banned in CA, so I don’t see how this would change Stanfords results.

 

[deleted1166622]

I thought AA was already banned in CA, so I don’t see how this would change Stanfords results.

This is correct, the UCs are also similarly diverse.

 

[pandabear121]

I thought AA was already banned in CA, so I don’t see how this would change Stanfords results.

That does not apply to Calfornia's private schools, only the public schools, so Stanford has been practicing AA despite the ruling.

In California, the use of race as a factor in public university admissions has been prohibited since the passage of Proposition 209 in 1996. Proposition 209 is a constitutional amendment that prohibits state government institutions from considering race, sex, or ethnicity for public employment, public contracting, and public education.

As a result, public universities in California, including the University of California system, have not been able to use race as a factor in admissions for many years. This includes universities such as UCLA and UC Berkeley. However, private universities, such as Stanford, were not subject to this restriction and could use affirmative action in their admissions policies if they chose to do so.

 

[Stoasty]

That does not apply to Calfornia's private schools, only the public schools, so Stanford has been practicing AA despite the ruling.

In California, the use of race as a factor in public university admissions has been prohibited since the passage of Proposition 209 in 1996. Proposition 209 is a constitutional amendment that prohibits state government institutions from considering race, sex, or ethnicity for public employment, public contracting, and public education.

As a result, public universities in California, including the University of California system, have not been able to use race as a factor in admissions for many years. This includes universities such as UCLA and UC Berkeley. However, private universities, such as Stanford, were not subject to this restriction and could use affirmative action in their admissions policies if they chose to do so.

Oh, interesting. I wonder how much they’ll get around it using info volunteered in essays.

 

[StressfulMD]

Can we end legacy admissions next?

So long as universities and medical schools alike are businesses and like to continue making money, this is wishful thinking 😛

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Can we end legacy admissions next?

FWIW, Gorsuch raised that point. Earlier the AMA passed a resolution calling for the end of legacy admissions. At the undergrad level, many colleges like Amherst have done this.

 

[john7991]

Oh, interesting. I wonder how much they’ll get around it using info volunteered in essays.

Wouldn’t that be considered illegal?

 

[Stoasty]

That doesn't really answer the question though and that statement is vague. The Court says the information can be volunteered, and can be considered, but not in the same way. Which doesn't really answer how schools will consider it, or if they'll even de facto comply with the court's statement at all.

Wouldn’t that be considered illegal?

The Court Statement says you're allowed to volunteer race in essays and talk about it but the schools can't use that information to sort based on race. Though how they'll actually enforce that or even prove it I'm not sure. After all a student applying to Howard writing an essay about how much being an African-American affected him still seems like they'd have an advantage, even if they can no longer just check a box. Seems like it will be a de jure vs de facto thing.

 

[deleted1166622]

That doesn't really answer the question though and that statement is vague. The Court says the information can be volunteered, and can be considered, but not in the same way. Which doesn't really answer how schools will consider it, or if they'll even de facto comply with the court's statement at all.

I predict that schools will make admissions even more obfuscated in an effort to continue recruiting diverse applicants. we will probably see several lawsuits as disgruntled applicants try to prove that someone who is URM was "stealing their spot" in a court of law. it might take a few cycles for the real effects of this to be put into place as new laws or clauses are written that spell out what exactly can and cannot be used in admissions decisions. I'm no lawyer though, so maybe none of that will happen.

 

[LizzyM]

So essentially if applicants have a story about how they were impacted by their race and grew from it it can be considered? That makes much more sense than the current system of checking a box.

"nothing [in today's decision] should be construed as prohibiting that" story about how something such as race impacted your life.

 

[Stoasty]

I predict that schools will make admissions even more obfuscated in an effort to continue recruiting diverse applicants. we will probably see several lawsuits as disgruntled applicants try to prove that someone who is URM was "stealing their spot" in a court of law. it might take a few cycles for the real effects of this to be put into place as new laws or clauses are written that spell out what exactly can and cannot be used in admissions decisions. I'm no lawyer though, so maybe none of that will happen.

Yeah I remember people were saying this was one of the motivations for them all dropping out of US News rankings.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

More power to creative writers.

 

[Lawpy]

More power to creative writers.

*laughs in ChatGPT*

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

That doesn't really answer the question though and that statement is vague. The Court says the information can be volunteered, and can be considered, but not in the same way. Which doesn't really answer how schools will consider it, or if they'll even de facto comply with the court's statement at all.


The Court Statement says you're allowed to volunteer race in essays and talk about it but the schools can't use that information to sort based on race. Though how they'll actually enforce that or even prove it I'm not sure. After all a student applying to Howard writing an essay about how much being an African-American affected him still seems like they'd have an advantage, even if they can no longer just check a box. Seems like it will be a de jure vs de facto thing.

If you listen to court hearings/debates, Justice Roberts says that an essay dictating a journey in the US as a black person or any minority should be used since the information is about the individual, not the race in general.

 

[john7991]

So, it is almost as if AAMC could foresee the need for the Other Impact essay. Too late for most of you today but this will be the way going forward. Keep it in mind, Grasshoppers.

When you say “too late for most of you,” what do you mean?

 

[Pipi&Pomegranate]

When you say “too late for most of you,” what do you mean?

most people submitted their primary already for thie cycle

 

[SpicyHotSauce]

I am wondering now, in the demographics section, would adcoms be able to see the race data or not for this application cycle, and would it be a part of the application for future cycles?

 

[Pipi&Pomegranate]

I am wondering now, in the demographics section, would adcoms be able to see the race data or not for this application cycle, and would it be a part of the application for future cycles?

Same, since the initial transmission date is tomorrow i believe

 

[Pathdocmd]

I imagine a simple algorithm could still sort all the applications by whatever metric the medical school deems important.

MCAT, GPA, and state of residency are the major metrics. Maybe socioeconomic status, veteran status, languages spoken well could be used in a screen. Sorting on what is important to med schools is more qualitative than quantitative.

 

[throwawayftw]

Here are admissions stats by race btw: Medical School Acceptance Rates by Race (2023): Does Ethnicity Play a Role? — Shemmassian Academic Consulting
This also applies to T20s- for example, 38% of Stanford's class is URM: https://med.stanford.edu/content/da...-Faculty-Roles-2020-21-with-Class-Profile.pdf


I'm really interested in seeing this cycle's results and how the differ from next cycle as schools adjust to this.

I think the real question is whether this decision will cause the average GPA and MCAT for admitted students to converge for all groups as schools can no longer consider race in admission (or will the personal statement loophole mean nothing changes).

Also how will the ACGME change its accreditation rules for diversity in response to the court decision ?

 

[Stoasty]

Same, since the initial transmission date is tomorrow i believe

I was wondering about this as well, especially with med-mar.

 

[tzuyu&yuqi]

My thoughts as a CA “ORM” who will matriculate to a MD school, wrong decision.

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

Political and religious diversity are also not given fair consideration. One does not dare comment on conservative religious beliefs , or they will never be accepted to certain medical schools.

 

[rainbowsunshine]

What if race can be used in a way to organize applicants, but not assign "points" if that makes sense? Can admissions still see race, just not confer a numerical advantage to it? Also, what about the LCME? They require schools to recruit diverse classes, I assume that must override this decision.

 

[senecca]

These are my thoughts and humble opinions …

I wholeheartedly welcome the Supreme Court decision. Time to stop treating Asian American citizen children with hatred and as second class citizens.

But, I feel that the Supreme Court should have avoided giving colleges an opening to circumvent their own ruling. The colleges are capable of making a tunnel out of this hole. If using race in admissions is unconstitutional, how come letting applicants mentioning their race in their application to gain admission is not? Baffles me. This is like saying “you cannot kill the Asian Americans with guns but you can use knife “. We all know how the colleges interpreted the court’s past directive “use race as one of the many factors as the tie breaker “ as “race as the most determining factor “. Also, they should’ve directed colleges to use only objective admission criteria or at least have an open admissions system (making the applications and decisions public) so that the process will be honest. You can already see discussion happening here on how colleges can circumvent the decision. Even our own president calls the colleges to ignore the Supreme Court decision and continue with the discrimination.

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Also, those colleges who would plan to circumvent the decision will feel a lot more pressure on them now because more number of aggrieved students will file a lawsuit. They will be mindful of that. Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

 

[rainbowsunshine]

These are my thoughts and humble opinions …

I wholeheartedly welcome the Supreme Court decision. Time to stop treating Asian American citizen children with hatred and as second class citizens.

But, I feel that the Supreme Court should have avoided giving colleges an opening to circumvent their own ruling. The colleges are capable of making a tunnel out of this hole. If using race in admissions is unconstitutional, how come letting applicants mentioning their race in their application to gain admission is not? Baffles me. This is like saying “you cannot kill the Asian Americans with guns but you can use knife “. We all know how the colleges interpreted the court’s past directive “use race as one of the many factors as the tie breaker “ as “race as the most determining factor “. Also, they should’ve directed colleges to use only objective admission criteria or at least have an open admissions system (making the applications and decisions public) so that the process will be honest. You can already see discussion happening here on how colleges can circumvent the decision. Even our own president calls the colleges to ignore the Supreme Court decision and continue with the discrimination.

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Also, those colleges who would plan to circumvent the decision will feel a lot more pressure on them now because more number of aggrieved students will file a lawsuit. They will be mindful of that. Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

Being a good doctor is more than metrics, cultural competence is a key component. If you think that the school's mission to enroll diverse student bodies will somehow be thwarted, you are mistaken.

 

[Stoasty]

These are my thoughts and humble opinions …

I wholeheartedly welcome the Supreme Court decision. Time to stop treating Asian American citizen children with hatred and as second class citizens.

But, I feel that the Supreme Court should have avoided giving colleges an opening to circumvent their own ruling. The colleges are capable of making a tunnel out of this hole. If using race in admissions is unconstitutional, how come letting applicants mentioning their race in their application to gain admission is not? Baffles me. This is like saying “you cannot kill the Asian Americans with guns but you can use knife “. We all know how the colleges interpreted the court’s past directive “use race as one of the many factors as the tie breaker “ as “race as the most determining factor “. Also, they should’ve directed colleges to use only objective admission criteria or at least have an open admissions system (making the applications and decisions public) so that the process will be honest. You can already see discussion happening here on how colleges can circumvent the decision. Even our own president calls the colleges to ignore the Supreme Court decision and continue with the discrimination.

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Also, those colleges who would plan to circumvent the decision will feel a lot more pressure on them now because more number of aggrieved students will file a lawsuit. They will be mindful of that. Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

I think it's because race does have a big impact on your life growing up in America, so it only makes sense to be able to talk about that as part of your journey in your PS. Though I'm fairly sure a college can reject you for any reason.

This ruling doesn't make it so that they have to auto-accept you if you're a 3.9, 524+, and I find it kind of dubious such applicants were losing their spots to URM candidates anyway. Statistically they were more likely to have lost it out to other applicants who were White/Asian. I'm not sure how that's a viable lawsuit, all the school has to say is "We rejected X overachiever because they didn't do well in an interview" ( which might be true. I have an ORM friend who applied with similar stats and was rejected because in his P.S he wrote "I want to be a doctor because I love blood and guts" ) etc.

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Maybe the school knows 520+ applicants won't attend your state school even if they are admitted, however good you may think your school is.

 

[Pipi&Pomegranate]

These are my thoughts and humble opinions …

I wholeheartedly welcome the Supreme Court decision. Time to stop treating Asian American citizen children with hatred and as second class citizens.

But, I feel that the Supreme Court should have avoided giving colleges an opening to circumvent their own ruling. The colleges are capable of making a tunnel out of this hole. If using race in admissions is unconstitutional, how come letting applicants mentioning their race in their application to gain admission is not? Baffles me. This is like saying “you cannot kill the Asian Americans with guns but you can use knife “. We all know how the colleges interpreted the court’s past directive “use race as one of the many factors as the tie breaker “ as “race as the most determining factor “. Also, they should’ve directed colleges to use only objective admission criteria or at least have an open admissions system (making the applications and decisions public) so that the process will be honest. You can already see discussion happening here on how colleges can circumvent the decision. Even our own president calls the colleges to ignore the Supreme Court decision and continue with the discrimination.

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Also, those colleges who would plan to circumvent the decision will feel a lot more pressure on them now because more number of aggrieved students will file a lawsuit. They will be mindful of that. Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

Identifying with a specific race is much easier than writing/reflecting on how race impact you. So the rulling basically means that race can not dicatate results unless you were or has been actually affected, which to me makes a hell lot of sense.

 

[Dochopeful13]

Identifying with a specific race is much easier than writing/reflecting on how race impact you. So the rulling basically means that race can not dicatate results unless you were or has been actually affected, which to me makes a hell lot of sense.

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[tzuyu&yuqi]

These are my thoughts and humble opinions …

I wholeheartedly welcome the Supreme Court decision. Time to stop treating Asian American citizen children with hatred and as second class citizens.

But, I feel that the Supreme Court should have avoided giving colleges an opening to circumvent their own ruling. The colleges are capable of making a tunnel out of this hole. If using race in admissions is unconstitutional, how come letting applicants mentioning their race in their application to gain admission is not? Baffles me. This is like saying “you cannot kill the Asian Americans with guns but you can use knife “. We all know how the colleges interpreted the court’s past directive “use race as one of the many factors as the tie breaker “ as “race as the most determining factor “. Also, they should’ve directed colleges to use only objective admission criteria or at least have an open admissions system (making the applications and decisions public) so that the process will be honest. You can already see discussion happening here on how colleges can circumvent the decision. Even our own president calls the colleges to ignore the Supreme Court decision and continue with the discrimination.

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Also, those colleges who would plan to circumvent the decision will feel a lot more pressure on them now because more number of aggrieved students will file a lawsuit. They will be mindful of that. Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

L take, let’s say we switch to a system like Korea or Taiwan where you literally need to score perfect on the college admission exam (pretty much the equivalent of 4.0 528 here), an “ORM” with a 3.7-3.8 513 who thinks they would have gotten in without AA would STILL not get in lol

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

My thoughts as a CA “ORM” who will matriculate to a MD school, wrong decision.

No offense. But you were accepted, so you may not understand the utter devastation of rejection. I know many very unhappy "ORM" with much higher MCAT's and GPA's who obviously were not accepted due to their race. (BTW, I was accepted, so I am not whining.)

 

[Stoasty]

No offense. But you were accepted, so you may not understand the utter devastation of rejection. I know many very unhappy "ORM" with much higher MCAT's and GPA's who obviously were not accepted due to their race. (BTW, I was accepted, so I am not whining.)

I mean, how can you know they weren't accepted due to their race? You're replying to someone who was an ORM and accepted despite having lower stats, so shouldn't that indicate their stats + race weren't the thing gatekeeping them?

 

[tzuyu&yuqi]

No offense. But you were accepted, so you may not understand the utter devastation of rejection. I know many very unhappy "ORM" with much higher MCAT's and GPA's who obviously were not accepted due to their race. (BTW, I was accepted, so I am not whining.)

Respectfully, I am quite familiar with the utter devastation of rejection.

 

[MrPuff]

Harvard reacts to Supreme Court affirmative action ruling: Diversity is 'essential to academic excellence'​

Harvard's leadership highlighted another path to accounting for race in admissions, in wake of Supreme Court ruling.​

And they're off....

 

[john7991]

These are my thoughts and humble opinions …

I wholeheartedly welcome the Supreme Court decision. Time to stop treating Asian American citizen children with hatred and as second class citizens.

But, I feel that the Supreme Court should have avoided giving colleges an opening to circumvent their own ruling. The colleges are capable of making a tunnel out of this hole. If using race in admissions is unconstitutional, how come letting applicants mentioning their race in their application to gain admission is not? Baffles me. This is like saying “you cannot kill the Asian Americans with guns but you can use knife “. We all know how the colleges interpreted the court’s past directive “use race as one of the many factors as the tie breaker “ as “race as the most determining factor “. Also, they should’ve directed colleges to use only objective admission criteria or at least have an open admissions system (making the applications and decisions public) so that the process will be honest. You can already see discussion happening here on how colleges can circumvent the decision. Even our own president calls the colleges to ignore the Supreme Court decision and continue with the discrimination.

Though this decision will never stop the colleges from practicing racial discrimination, it will certainly slow it down. The last five years or so, things were getting extremely rough for ORMs especially the Asian Americans (Our only state medical school didn’t even offer interviews to many highly qualified applicants with 520+ even though their average is only 512, in the past cycle). Now it might slow down. I don’t believe colleges can boast themselves of the racial demographics of their student body anymore . So there is no incentive to practice discrimination and no pressure on colleges who intend to be fair and impartial, at least they can peacefully stop the racial discrimination.

Also, those colleges who would plan to circumvent the decision will feel a lot more pressure on them now because more number of aggrieved students will file a lawsuit. They will be mindful of that. Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

Not relevant but a lot of students who have 3.9 and 524 think they can get in with those alone and they think this with zero doubt and complete oblivion. One person admitted their essay was poorly written and their interview bad but they were upset anyways. I’ve seen so many people with those stats complain about not getting in on Reddit but then when people ask about their ECs and other stuff, it’s like, wow, did you really think you would get in with really low EC, volunteer, etc., stats regardless of your grades?

 

[Moko]

Colleges cannot reject an Asian American applicant with 3.9+, 524+ and hope to sleep peacefully anymore . They will surely approach the courts. That’s a good thing.

No school is rejecting a 3.9+ 524+ applicant because they are white or Asian. Unsuccessful applicants with these stats usually have significant deficiencies unrelated to their race. Just my thoughts.

 

[enchantedcalendarfruit]

There will be a ton of cat and mouse around this stuff from universities looking to identify proxies for race. That's a lot easier at the undergraduate level than at the professional school level for a number of reasons. It's easiest to articulate my thoughts around who I foresee being Winners (improved admissions odds) and Losers (lower admissions odds).

Winners: First generation students, low-income students, students who live or grew up in underserved areas, students with middling MCATs and GPAs, students with strong writing abilities, students who interview well, LGBT+ students, nontraditional students

Losers: Wealthy students, black students, Hispanic students, indigenous students, students with very good but not immaculate stats, students who are not charismatic, standardized test companies

Neutral (or TBD): Asian students, white students, students with tons of standard ECs, research-heavy students

Happy to discuss why I think certain groups are in each bucket but overall, I think we will see interviews granted much more generously and MCAT/GPA cutoffs to go down significantly across the board. The "objective" measure will be less for ranking and more likely to shift towards minimum cutoffs.

 

[Moko]

Personally, I'm not opposed to this ruling. A poor white or Asian applicant who overcame a lot should be given similar considerations as their black or Hispanic peers from similar backgrounds. A black/Hispanic student with double physician parents or >$400k income should not be given preferential treatment just to meet metrics to appear more diverse. All else being equal, that first group probably has more to offer to the class / their future colleagues, so I hope this ruling can help boost economic diversity within the medical field. Just my thoughts.

 

[rainbowsunshine]

Personally, I'm not opposed to this ruling. A poor white or Asian applicant who overcame a lot should be given similar considerations as their black or Hispanic peers, and definitely more than a black student with double physician parents. Just my thoughts.

How will this affect LCME guidelines?