Are we all Fools

[Cozell]

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Ok not to be the bad news tosser but take a look at this, according to this guy we as pods who make likely less than this FM doc would be making under 44K a year and it will only go down. WHATTT😱

http://partyhardpolitics.com/archives/9313


Starting salary= $130,000
Federal Income Tax= -$29,861 at a tax bracket of 22.97%
Malpractice insurance= -$15,000 (varies significantly by state, but we’ll go with the average)
Student Loan payment = – $3,370 per month (x12)= $40,440
What you have left= $44,699

Now he puts that student loan about 2/3 higher than what I would expect to pay back a year but nonetheless 60k after taxes is comped right back to 44k if we make slightly less than FM.

Sorry to light this fire but I think us as pre professionals need to be professional enough to look at the facts and make educated steps toward any professions.

 

[heybrother]

Calm down and don't let people get a rise out of you. Also, please, please, please refrain from using awful thread titles designed to get a reaction. Its almost as bad as the crap posted by the people from the has-been forum. Its a political piece meant to produce gasps and awes.

(1) If I made $130,000 the first thing I would start doing is making a max 401k contribution. The amount adjusts, but is roughly $~16.5K. You just made retirement progress and reduced your tax burden for the year. All of the 401k contribution would be in the 28% bracket which would reduce your tax average.

Complications have solutions. For example - if you are self employed you will have to pay both sides of social security. However, a self employed person is able to make a much larger 401k contribution. I seem to recall the pods on this forum saying you need an accountant and a lawyer, in that order. They'll have options for you.

(2) An average is a number that fits no one - people are free to choose busy friendly states and states that don't charge state income tax. As a doctor you will have the opportunity to choose a malpractice friendly state.

(3) That student loan payment is extremely high. Upon further investigation it is based on a private medical school with a tuition of $48K and living expenses of $~20k. There's a piece of advice frequently given in the pre-forums: get a medical education at the cheapest school you can attend. Don't listen to anyone in these forums who tells you that debt is nothing or "what's another $20K". They haven't paid off a loan. Debt sucks.

 

[ilovefeet]

Calm down and don't let people get a rise out of you. Also, please, please, please refrain from using awful thread titles designed to get a reaction. Its almost as bad as the crap posted by the people from the has-been forum. Its a political piece meant to produce gasps and awes.

(1) If I made $130,000 the first thing I would start doing is making a max 401k contribution. The amount adjusts, but is roughly $~16.5K. You just made retirement progress and reduced your tax burden for the year. All of the 401k contribution would be in the 28% bracket which would reduce your tax average.

Complications have solutions. For example - if you are self employed you will have to pay both sides of social security. However, a self employed person is able to make a much larger 401k contribution. I seem to recall the pods on this forum saying you need an accountant and a lawyer, in that order. They'll have options for you.

(2) An average is a number that fits no one - people are free to choose busy friendly states and states that don't charge state income tax. As a doctor you will have the opportunity to choose a malpractice friendly state.

(3) That student loan payment is extremely high. Upon further investigation it is based on a private medical school with a tuition of $48K and living expenses of $~20k. There's a piece of advice frequently given in the pre-forums: get a medical education at the cheapest school you can attend. Don't listen to anyone in these forums who tells you that debt is nothing or "what's another $20K". They haven't paid off a loan. Debt sucks.

👍 nicely put.

 

[Cozell]

Calm down and don't let people get a rise out of you. Also, please, please, please refrain from using awful thread titles designed to get a reaction. Its almost as bad as the crap posted by the people from the has-been forum. Its a political piece meant to produce gasps and awes.

(1) If I made $130,000 the first thing I would start doing is making a max 401k contribution. The amount adjusts, but is roughly $~16.5K. You just made retirement progress and reduced your tax burden for the year. All of the 401k contribution would be in the 28% bracket which would reduce your tax average.

Complications have solutions. For example - if you are self employed you will have to pay both sides of social security. However, a self employed person is able to make a much larger 401k contribution. I seem to recall the pods on this forum saying you need an accountant and a lawyer, in that order. They'll have options for you.

(2) An average is a number that fits no one - people are free to choose busy friendly states and states that don't charge state income tax. As a doctor you will have the opportunity to choose a malpractice friendly state.

(3) That student loan payment is extremely high. Upon further investigation it is based on a private medical school with a tuition of $48K and living expenses of $~20k. There's a piece of advice frequently given in the pre-forums: get a medical education at the cheapest school you can attend. Don't listen to anyone in these forums who tells you that debt is nothing or "what's another $20K". They haven't paid off a loan. Debt sucks.

Great post thanks man, sorry to come across as looking for shock value but things like this Tick me off and get me thinking. Sure its not all about the money either but we all have to be able to put food on the table.

P.S. I tried so hard to change the thread title after it posted but I was too late I dont like it at all.

 

[jellybean2020]

OP you posted this in the Allopathic forums and got laughed out by everyone there. Now you're posting it here. Sounds like you're having a sudden crisis of faith in going into medicine. You need to do some thinking...posting shock-value threads like this to get a rise out of people is not your solution.

 

[Cozell]

OP you posted this in the Allopathic forums and got laughed out by everyone there. Now you're posting it here. Sounds like you're having a sudden crisis of faith in going into medicine. You need to do some thinking...posting shock-value threads like this to get a rise out of people is not your solution.

If you will notice I posted this Directly after the Allo post. Before I even got nor read any comment on the allo thread so c'mon buddy dont judge or assume, my only crisis is a motivation that I cant seem to stop researching the direction my life is heading sorry if that's a bad thing. But you likely are uninformed on the status of medicine/healthcare Furthermore I was never laughed out it appears as though some people will read a title and then shoot to the bottom and post without reading anymore this is an Inquiry on a startling article to prove or disprove this ridiculous salary range. We can make light of the situation or we can address it or we can simply view the thread and move along I would roll with the latter if you have no constructive input for the topic.

I would also recommend some reading glasses because you obviously have yet to read anything but my title and send me all these messages ease up bud I dont know you like that cut back on the PM's and stalking my profile. we had a good debate going in the allo thread for a good while.

 

[jellybean2020]

I would also recommend some reading glasses because you obviously have yet to read anything but my title and send me all these messages ease up bud I dont know you like that cut back on the PM's and stalking my profile. we had a good debate going in the allo thread for a good while.

😱 What are you talking about? I have never sent you any PM's before in my life. I think you're rambling about the wrong person?

 

[Cozell]

😱 What are you talking about? I have never sent you any PM's before in my life. I think you're rambling about the wrong person?

Embarrassed much, just ease up bro im not replying to anymore of them.

 

[Ferocity]

Cool thread, bro.

 

[jellybean2020]

Embarrassed much, just ease up bro im not replying to anymore of them.

Hahaha...now I know you're unstable. I have never contacted you before. Please show me some of these PM's I sent you. The only one this is embarrassing for is you.

 

[frankcfromny]

In my opinion, people need to chill out a little bit around here. Every time someone raises a concern about podiatry, individuals tend to get their panties in a bunch while making drab or sarcastic comments.

This is a valid concern now more than ever. I'm not even speaking of podiatry, but rather medicine as a whole. I can't tell you how many podiatrists, physicians and surgeons I have met with that both praise their profession and also caution against it. All of them are older and have actually experienced/felt the change over the last 20 years. The medical field continues to change, and now more than ever.

I think what is important to keep in mind is that no one knows how it will change. It is all fear and speculation at this point.

Can you blame the OP for soliciting advice from his peers before he makes an extremely important life-altering decision? I certainly don't.

/rant off

 

[Pktgresch]

Cool thread, bro.

Cool post, bro.

 

[Cozell]

Hahaha...now I know you're unstable. I have never contacted you before. Please show me some of these PM's I sent you. The only one this is embarrassing for is you.

Im not gonna play your game, Two words "Ignore List"

In my opinion, people need to chill out a little bit around here. Every time someone raises a concern about podiatry, individuals tend to get their panties in a bunch while making drab or sarcastic comments.

This is a valid concern now more than ever. I'm not even speaking of podiatry, but rather medicine as a whole. I can't tell you how many podiatrists, physicians and surgeons I have met with that both praise their profession and also caution against it. All of them are older and have actually experienced/felt the change over the last 20 years. The medical field continues to change, and now more than ever.

I think what is important to keep in mind is that no one knows how it will change. It is all fear and speculation at this point.

Can you blame the OP for soliciting advice from his peers before he makes an extremely important life-altering decision? I certainly don't.

/rant off

Thank you, This is pretty much all my intentions were but we apparently cant simply address the concern. I don't know if its because people don't want to think about it/don't believe it/ or just don't care, but hey best of luck to everyone I still want to become a physician regardless I just like to know what im up against.

 

[jonwill]

A couple things to consider:

1) A starting salary is just that. It will increase over the years as you produce more.

2) Malpractice is generally not paid out of your salary. It is paid by your employer or if you are solo, it is paid out of overhead.

3) $3370 for student loans a month??? Where did you get that number? I had a wife and started with one kid in podiatry school and ended residency with four kids. Unless you had insane undergrad debt or lived like a doctor while you were in pod school, your loan payments are no where near that.

4) Taxes suck but there are plenty of write offs and ways to minimize the damage.

 

[jellybean2020]

Im not gonna play your game, Two words "Ignore List".

I really can't figure you out. So I criticize you. Then you lose it and make a bunch of lies about me. I call you out on it and ask you to provide evidence. Then you run away behind an 'ignore list' pretending to be victimized. I guess the internet's the internet, so you can do whatever you want.

Just some advice though: blowing a fuse and slandering the other person just because you're being criticized is a very cowardly (not to mention unethical) tactic. I sure hope you don't pick podiatry school because I'd hate to have to work with you someday.

EDIT: I'm done with this thread....what a waste of time.

 

[nikkisorous]

The entirety of this thread is misleading. Like most health care professions, how much you make depends on what you do and how much you choose to work. Unfortunately though, if obama care does happen, salary will turn into a giant mystery for everyone. Bottom line: don't do it for money, do it only if you will enjoy this career for your life.

 

[golfandmedicine]

There are always ways to make the most out of whatever salary you have coming in. As one poster stated, you can contribute large amounts to your 401k, and you can also invest the money, both options reduce the taxes paid on your income. Another option is for those that own their own practice. They can create a second company which will own the building your practice is in and your practice can pay rent to your second company. Now you have rent coming in every month that gets taxed at a lesser rate, not to mention if you ever get sued you cant lose your building because your practice wont technically own it.
Sorry to ramble off but the point is that there are so many ways to make money and conserve money that with the right business knowledge podiatrists shouldnt need to worry. To each their own but I am very excited to be heading down this path, I see a lot of opportunity here.

 

[billBOB213]

Well said my friend, I feel like if you have some business sense you will still make a great living. Also doesn't hurt to be personable and likable-you get sued less!

 

[dyk343]

There are always ways to make the most out of whatever salary you have coming in. As one poster stated, you can contribute large amounts to your 401k, and you can also invest the money, both options reduce the taxes paid on your income. Another option is for those that own their own practice. They can create a second company which will own the building your practice is in and your practice can pay rent to your second company. Now you have rent coming in every month that gets taxed at a lesser rate, not to mention if you ever get sued you cant lose your building because your practice wont technically own it.
Sorry to ramble off but the point is that there are so many ways to make money and conserve money that with the right business knowledge podiatrists shouldnt need to worry. To each their own but I am very excited to be heading down this path, I see a lot of opportunity here.

I want to open a practice with you.

 

[golfandmedicine]

I want to open a practice with you.

where do you go to school? Just curious, I am currently applying and favoring NYCPM. I also like Barry, DMU, and possibly Scholl for the research.

 

[dyk343]

where do you go to school? Just curious, I am currently applying and favoring NYCPM. I also like Barry, DMU, and possibly Scholl for the research.

I actually keep that information secretive for reasons of anonymity.

 

[TheWookie]

Starting salary= $130,000
Federal Income Tax= -$29,861 at a tax bracket of 22.97%
Malpractice insurance= -$15,000 (varies significantly by state, but we’ll go with the average)
Student Loan payment = – $3,370 per month (x12)= $40,440
What you have left= $44,699

The Wookie says:
You should not be paying for your own malpractice. No need to pay off your student loans so quickly. Money is better used for other things. May the Force be with you.

 

[newfeet]

The Wookie says:
You should not be paying for your own malpractice. No need to pay off your student loans so quickly. Money is better used for other things. May the Force be with you.

No need to pay of your loans so quickly? The faster the better in my opinion. There is no reason to have that debt on shoulders if you can help it. If i can pay my loans off in the next 10 years I would be a happy man.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

No need to pay of your loans so quickly? The faster the better in my opinion. There is no reason to have that debt on shoulders if you can help it. If i can pay my loans off in the next 10 years I would be a happy man.

Well, the numbers cozell gave looked like you could pay it off in about 7 years.

I agree that student debt sucks, but historically (maybe not anymore..) your loan interest rate would be lower than what you could get out of the market. So, you'd get a couple more percentage points of wealth if you invest your money instead of paying off your debt. In our current economic climate, this probably is no longer true, but by general convention, this is why people take 30 years to pay off debt.

 

[heybrother]

If the optometry forum is any indicator, one possible reason that starting medical professionals didn't pay off debt was to try and control their cash flow so that they could start businesses (ie. their practice) with the potential to generate greater returns.

 

[TheWookie]

No need to pay of your loans so quickly? The faster the better in my opinion. There is no reason to have that debt on shoulders if you can help it. If i can pay my loans off in the next 10 years I would be a happy man.

The Wookie says:
Ask your Jedi Account Manager and check your investments on Corescant before making statements that are daft.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

If the optometry forum is any indicator, one possible reason that starting medical professionals didn't pay off debt was to try and control their cash flow so that they could start businesses (ie. their practice) with the potential to generate greater returns.

Exactly the same spirit as my post: your income can generate more income than the loan interest is causing you!

Real talk though: pods do have the highest loan default rate of all medical professionals apparently. I read it in an old business week a month or so ago (might have changed now?)

 

[EK18]

pods do have the highest loan default rate of all medical professionals apparently. I read it in an old business week a month or so ago (might have changed now?)

Really? How come?

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Really? How come?

They might count people that drop out/don't get a residency. In which case the statistic may have been "those who go to podiatry school," instead of "podiatrist...." I can scour the Internet for the business week article as my source. I mean, realistically, with all those that don't match/pass part 2 there's no way thy don default... And that's a pretty decent percentage...

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

The verbiage is actually "among the highest in medicine," not, "the highest in medicine," but I think my point is valid nonetheless.


http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/09/worstjobs_bestpay/source/3.htm

 

[newfeet]

The Wookie says:
Ask your Jedi Account Manager and check your investments on Corescant before making statements that are daft.

Yea... You're not going to be able to convince me that's it's better to hold debt for 30 years. It's bad enough I'm going to have a mortgage and student loans at the same time then maybe a practice loan. Yea if I can pay of my student loans in ten years I would. Just like I would prefer a 15 year mortgage over a 30 year one. In my opinion being 100% debt free in my 40s would an amazing feeling.