Are you working more than 80 hours?

[Winged Scapula]

thanks for the replies abt my concerns. yeah, my PI says the same thing: 'you just gotta plow through'.
i guess that's just not the mentality that i'm used to. ..i can't stand to do something while i'm unhappy about doing it; i want to love the process and not just the result. but i guess medicine will bring out that endurance in me? hopefully.

i think it also bothers me to know that my prime childbearing years are essentially wiped out by plans to learn medicine. most of my friends (early 20's) would probably like to have children in their late 20s. some earlier, some later, but i would say that's what most college educated women are aiming for these days.

so maybe more than just the cruel hours, i dread the feeling of wondering if my time could be put to better/more appropriate use. . .but hey, i guess taking care of 20 children per day (peds residency for me maybe?) should actually be more satisfying from a utilitarian standpoint than taking care of your own 1 or 2. . .let's hope so!

Your concerns over child-bearing (and rearing) are valid. Most residents would suggest you have children during medical school (obviously if you have a partner who is willing and able - not only to father them but to assist when you're at the hospital for long hours) rather than residency or beyond. The truth is that medical training, regardless of speciality, does take place during prime childbearing years. There are residencies which are more "family friendly" and conducive to being pregnant. However, the consensus yesterday (during a Women in Surgery meeting after reviewing data and our own personal experiences) was that if you can get married and have children during medical school, that's the best plan.

BTW, don't worry about your ability to work 80+ hours...your body adjusts. I'm a fair bit older than the usual resident (and twice as lazy) and I found that I got used to the long hours (and this was in the days before the 80 hour workweek). Somehow almost all of us make it through...you will too.

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[care bear]

thanks kimberli!

wow, that's really something to think abt. i appreciate your honesty- and encouragement abt the hours question.

take care

 

[DrIng]

Well it's true Kimberli that your body adjusts but I must say when youre sitting in one part of the world looking at whether or not to come to the US those kind of hours do weigh heavily on your mind!

 

[Docgeorge]

If my g/f (also a med student) and I want to have kids were going to have to wait untill she's 35. That will put us in the high risk catagory for pregnancy. YIKES!!!!!!!

 

[kinetic]

I'm not in that situation, but (as a serious [OK, half-serious] question):

Do you ever get angry that you have to put off family and (like DocGeorge) maybe put yourself at higher risk for having a kid with congenital defects ...and then you take care of some lame-o who is 20 years old and pumping out kids like there's no tomorrow?

 

[Apollyon]

I'm not in that situation, but (as a serious [OK, half-serious] question):

Do you ever get angry that you have to put off family and (like DocGeorge) maybe put yourself at higher risk for having a kid with congenital defects ...and then you take care of some lame-o who is 20 years old and pumping out kids like there's no tomorrow?

Nail on the head, bud....

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm not in that situation, but (as a serious [OK, half-serious] question):

Do you ever get angry that you have to put off family and (like DocGeorge) maybe put yourself at higher risk for having a kid with congenital defects ...and then you take care of some lame-o who is 20 years old and pumping out kids like there's no tomorrow?

This hasn't been an issue for me (at least the former) because the years have just flown by and I've yet to feel the maternal urge. I have lost sympathy (or patience in the case where there was no sympathy) for some categories of patients - especially drunk drivers who always seem to show up just as I'm getting a little shut-eye for the night.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Well it's true Kimberli that your body adjusts but I must say when youre sitting in one part of the world looking at whether or not to come to the US those kind of hours do weigh heavily on your mind!

I don't doubt that those hours are concerning to someone looking at them from a different prospective. However, if you ask many US residents whether they would rather work longer hours for fewer years or train as others do abroad (ie, less hours but more years in training) many of us would choose the former. This is especially true for those of us older than the typical resident.

 

[moondance26]

OK, I am very scared. I'm currently an intern in Australia and have just completed my time sheet for the fortnight- 98 hours.

DrIng: are you an ortho intern? it's the only way i can think of to explain those work hours. am in my final year at adelaide uni, working surg at the royal adelaide, and am so tired. not looking forward to being an intern!

 

[Winged Scapula]

OK, I am very scared. I'm currently an intern in Australia and have just completed my time sheet for the fortnight- 98 hours.

DrIng: are you an ortho intern? it's the only way i can think of to explain those work hours. am in my final year at adelaide uni, working surg at the royal adelaide, and am so tired. not looking forward to being an intern!

Really? 98 hours per fortnight is less than 50 hrs per week which is about average (or a little less) than most Aussie residents.

 

[boxdoc]

Interesting article in the AMSA magazine: www.amsa.org/tnp/perspectives.cfm. More about the ongoing saga of work hours regs, the Hopkins loss of accreditation, and whistleblower protection.

 

[NaeBlis]

MacGuyver still hasn't fessed up about his level of training. I'm beginning to wonder if he's in medicine at all.

He never fesses up to it, he is asked this often when he rants in various forums. As near as anyone can estimate he is an MDPhd student, who has finished his first two years and in now doing research. He has no clinical experience as far as I can tell.

 

[Svetlana117]

When working long hours, the important thing is to keep the scut work at a minimum and do the essential things.

Economize on your writings and H & P. Write 4 lines which say the essential things and oh...dont miss that Troponin of 4.5

 

[freelancewriter]

There's a story from New York City (April 29, 2004) about resident work hours titled "City Hospitals Still Overworking Residents." New Yorks work hours regulation is often held up as a model, but enforcement seems to be either lacking or not severe enough.

Hospitals discussed include Mt. Sinai and New York Presbyterian, and St. Mary's in Brooklyn, St. Vincent's Hospital in Staten Island, and Montefiore are mentioned near the end:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/investigators/wabc_investigators_042904residents.html

 

[enceph]

He never fesses up to it, he is asked this often when he rants in various forums. As near as anyone can estimate he is an MDPhd student, who has finished his first two years and in now doing research. He has no clinical experience as far as I can tell.

I would be very surprised if this individual is an MD PhD candidate. Judging from his questions on medical cases, I am inclined to believe that he is an M1, if he actually is in med school to begin with. The manner in which he presents cases is especially revealing, almost as if he is unfamiliar with the clinical mehod.

Just my 2c worth of ennui induced speculation.