Drrrrrr. Celty

Osteo Dullahan
7+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2009
16,123
5,373
Status
Medical Student
The expansion needs to stop. There is no way around it. If we want to continue possessing a legitimate doctoral degree, then we need to defend it's integrity and the reality that it actually stands for a real education. Either we stand against reckless expansion with impoverished rotations or we subject our future to the inevitability of catastrophe.
 

HotLunch96

2+ Year Member
Apr 12, 2015
208
232
Status
Medical Student
“While we appreciate your efforts to establish new osteopathic programs, our Board does not think it [is] in the best interest of the profession to continue to establish new schools with the obvious lack of osteopathic postgraduate training sites, as well as the inability to currently keep all of our osteopathic medical students in-state for their rotations." *Tears up* Someone gets it
 

zero0

everything i hug dies
5+ Year Member
Jul 21, 2014
1,174
2,223
Status
Medical Student
Hum, there might be hope for this profession after all.
 

IslandStyle808

Akuma residency or bust!
7+ Year Member
Aug 5, 2012
5,574
4,248
“While we appreciate your efforts to establish new osteopathic programs, our Board does not think it [is] in the best interest of the profession to continue to establish new schools with the obvious lack of osteopathic postgraduate training sites, as well as the inability to currently keep all of our osteopathic medical students in-state for their rotations." *Tears up* Someone gets it
I can't trust AOMAs words after reading this...

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/106819/emails-osteopathic-association-opposed-jonesboro-location
 

NurWollen

Strong with the Force
10+ Year Member
Dec 27, 2007
3,433
2,379
United States
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I have no problem with expansion. I DO have problems with schools that:
- have poor rotation sites
- weak teaching curriculum
- accept students with <25 MCAT
in before low MCAT defenders.
Lol just about every DO school (and a lot of MD schools) have at least a few students with sub-25 MCAT scores.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChiTownBHawks

IslandStyle808

Akuma residency or bust!
7+ Year Member
Aug 5, 2012
5,574
4,248
That was too long ago. Things have changed now. For nowadays standard, 25 is low.
Correct, but that's only because of the crop of candidates. If the applicant pool stats drop, then so will the school averages. Medical school is more a supply and demand model than we like to admit.
 

NontradCA

American Hero
7+ Year Member
Sep 19, 2012
4,992
4,144
Trump Tower
Status
Medical Student
Medical education is a business, medicine is a business. Do not let anyone tell you different. Find ways to profit. The end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HotLunch96

ChiTownBHawks

5+ Year Member
Sep 17, 2013
1,685
1,785
Status
Medical Student
I have no problem with expansion. I DO have problems with schools that:
- have poor rotation sites
- weak teaching curriculum
- accept students with <25 MCAT
I know several people who got into US MD schools with below a 25. And that's just me personally. I guess we should just discard those schools as well, huh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IslandStyle808

feeling-dizzy

5+ Year Member
Aug 12, 2014
347
200
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
sigh, How many time I have to tell ppl that MCAT score is close to meaningless, except a way to weed out oversupplied applicants? MD schools in Puerto Rico still take MCAT <25, still produce good doctors; and don't let me even start about URM that have MCAT in low 20s still got accepted to US MD schools, still turn out good docs. Having said that, I do have problems with not enough resident spots left for everyone. Once you open a new school, you should be dawn sure there are enough residency spots. Why? So at least I can get a *#$#$ job to pay student loan. Or I can apply for student loan forgiveness like a bunch of student from whatever college that went bankrupt since the school lie to me about job prospects
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

Osteo Dullahan
7+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2009
16,123
5,373
Status
Medical Student
sigh, How many time I have to tell ppl that MCAT score is close to meaningless, except a way to weed out oversupplied applicants? MD schools in Puerto Rico still take MCAT <25, still produce good doctors; and don't let me even start about URM that have MCAT in low 20s still got accepted to US MD schools, still turn out good docs. Having said that, I do have problems with not enough resident spots left for everyone. Once you open a new school, you should be dawn sure there are enough residency spots. Why? So at least I can get a *#$#$ job to pay student loan. Or I can apply for student loan forgiveness like a bunch of student from whatever college that went bankrupt since the school lie to me about job prospects
Again, it's disingenuous to say that the MCAT is meaningless. It's not the ideal test and truthfully after the 50th percentile it loses all applicative value in terms of determining board performance and pass rate. But the end result is that people who score under a 25 are in fact still at risk for special circumstances, failure on board, and other things. I think while obviously it's not perfect, it does and it should communicate to a student who applies that they need to really spend some time considering whether or not they can actually do medical school.

The problem with new schools still fundamentally is not about residency spots yet. There are still enough for US grads and there are plenty of IMGs to push out. The issue is whether or not these new schools actually are worth the money you pay to attend them. Whether or not for example attending this school isn't the same as basically paying the dean a premium for a piss poor clinical education.
 

Mjolner

7+ Year Member
Apr 20, 2012
809
403
Status
Medical Student
Again, it's disingenuous to say that the MCAT is meaningless. It's not the ideal test and truthfully after the 50th percentile it loses all applicative value in terms of determining board performance and pass rate. But the end result is that people who score under a 25 are in fact still at risk for special circumstances, failure on board, and other things. I think while obviously it's not perfect, it does and it should communicate to a student who applies that they need to really spend some time considering whether or not they can actually do medical school.

The problem with new schools still fundamentally is not about residency spots yet. There are still enough for US grads and there are plenty of IMGs to push out. The issue is whether or not these new schools actually are worth the money you pay to attend them. Whether or not for example attending this school isn't the same as basically paying the dean a premium for a piss poor clinical education.
Many of the new DO schools allow (make) you schedule all of your second and fourth year selectives and electives. It seems that puts some of the onus on you to make your clinical education worthwhile. I don't know that that is fair or right, but you can't exactly complain when you knew what you were getting into when you took the acceptance.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

Osteo Dullahan
7+ Year Member
Nov 10, 2009
16,123
5,373
Status
Medical Student
Many of the new DO schools allow (make) you schedule all of your second and fourth year selectives and electives. It seems that puts some of the onus on you to make your clinical education worthwhile. I don't know that that is fair or right, but you can't exactly complain when you knew what you were getting into when you took the acceptance.
Right, my school is an ultra elective heavy 4th year school. But we have strongly established 3rd & 4th year rotation sites.
 

IslandStyle808

Akuma residency or bust!
7+ Year Member
Aug 5, 2012
5,574
4,248
Right, my school is an ultra elective heavy 4th year school. But we have strongly established 3rd & 4th year rotation sites.
People don't realize how much of a pro this is for a school...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mjolner

IslandStyle808

Akuma residency or bust!
7+ Year Member
Aug 5, 2012
5,574
4,248
What is "Medicine Selective"? Can somebody explain to me how many true elective blocks I'd be having during BCOM's 4th year?

http://bcomnm.org/academics/medical-curriculum/
Think of it as like a rotation with a specialty focus under internal medicine (ex. cardiology, gastroenterology, dermatology etc.). There is this and surgery selectives also which are a specialty focus under surgery (ex. ortho, vascular, ENT). There is a list of what you can and can't do that satisfies these requirements provided by the school.

Electives on the other hand can be any rotation you want to do. You want to make sure your school doesn't make an unreasonable limit to the amount of electives you can do (ex. 3 months or less is bad).

One big pro tip I will tell is look at school that have a lot of elective rotations. If a school has 3 or less elective rotations then that is bad, and if it has 6 or more rotations then it is awesome.

EDIT: here is a link of a past thread explaining the differences

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-is-the-difference-between-selective-and-elective.963461/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Giovanotto