Army Match Statistics

[xax]

I keep checking the mods site to see when they will put up the results for the class of 2009. Are they available anywhere yet? Does anyone know about when they are usually available?

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[ieatpizza]

Army match 2009 statistics recently posted here: https://apps.mods.army.mil/MedEd/HPSP/Powerpoint/GMEslideshow_files/frame.htm

Specialty (slots) Applicant:Slot Ratio

Emergency Medicine (27) 1.15
Family Medicine (43) 0.56
General Surgery (26) 1.65
GS Neurosurgery (2) 7
GS Urology (7) 1.57
Internal Medicine (51) 0.65
Neurology (5) 1.20
Child Neurology (1) 0
OB-GYN (15) 1.20
Orthopedics (19) 1.47
Otolaryngology (6) 1.00
Pathology (6) 1.00
Pediatrics (26) 0.62
Psychiatry (14) 0.71
Psychiatry/Internal Medicine (2) 1.5
Transitional (15) 0.13
Aerospace Medicine (2) 0
Anesthesiology (12) 1.50
Dermatology (7) 1.29
Ophthalmology (7) 1.57
Physical Medicine (3) 1.00
Preventive Medicine (3) 0.50
Radiation Oncology (1) 1
Radiology (15) 1.00

Previous discussion on Army matching here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=367738. I don't think we need to redo the great debate on what these numbers mean.

 

[ieatpizza]

My guess about the uptick in Neurosurgery applicants: the Army told applicants that they were offering deferrals for Neurosurgery.

 

[ieatpizza]

Also interesting is that the Army is also posting average board scores of matched applicants: https://apps.mods.army.mil/MedEd/HPSP/Powerpoint/GMEslideshow_files/frame.htm. Check out slides 13 to 15.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Hmm, 0.71 for psych and the avg step I score isn't really that low. I may be in trouble

 

[ieatpizza]

Hmm, 0.71 for psych and the avg step I score isn't really that low. I may be in trouble

As long as you passed and the applicant-to-position ratio is less than 1 for the 2010 match, I wouldn't sweat it. You just need to cross your fingers that 2007 or 2005 doesn't happen when there were more applicants for psychiatry than there were available positions.

 

[mslall]

not a good year for general surgery either.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Here are a couple of questions to clarify some things I've heard/read


1) I was told after the match there is a sort-of military "scramble", where you can fill out a form to request to be changed into one of the unfilled spots. ie, if I ranked psych and for whatever reason did not match into psych but into one of the crappy TY things, I could fill out this form and request a spot in one of the many unfilled IM positions.


2) If we rank one of the combined programs, are we also able to rank the non-combined programs if they're in the same fields? ie, can I rank IM/Psych as #1, then psych as #2 and #3?

 

[DogFaceMedic]

Here are a couple of questions to clarify some things I've heard/read


1) I was told after the match there is a sort-of military "scramble", where you can fill out a form to request to be changed into one of the unfilled spots. ie, if I ranked psych and for whatever reason did not match into psych but into one of the crappy TY things, I could fill out this form and request a spot in one of the many unfilled IM positions.


2) If we rank one of the combined programs, are we also able to rank the non-combined programs if they're in the same fields? ie, can I rank IM/Psych as #1, then psych as #2 and #3?

1. Yes, it is essentially as you described. But I don't know any stats regarding how many changes were made, etc.

2. You can rank anything any way you want, just be realistic.

 

[psychbender]

2) If we rank one of the combined programs, are we also able to rank the non-combined programs if they're in the same fields? ie, can I rank IM/Psych as #1, then psych as #2 and #3?

Yeah, you would select IM/Psych as your specialty goal, then rank the NCC IM/Psych program #1. I believe #2 would have to be Transitional, then Psych at TAMC and NCC #3 and 4, and something else as #5.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Yeah, you would select IM/Psych as your specialty goal, then rank the NCC IM/Psych program #1. I believe #2 would have to be Transitional, then Psych at TAMC and NCC #3 and 4, and something else as #5.

Why would you have to rank TY as #2 and then everything else? You would match to the TY, making everything else useless.

 

[ieatpizza]

Why would you have to rank TY as #2 and then everything else? You would match to the TY, making everything else useless.

I think psychbender is wrong on this account. You can rank a mixture of psych and combined programs before ranking TY. Here's a quote from an old fact sheet from 2005 (note that the Army psych-fp program is no longer active, I think):

Psychiatry: There are two Army residency programs in psychiatry. There are also combined residency programs in psychiatry/internal medicine and psychiatry/family medicine. Students may rank the programs in order of preference to include a mixture of the straight and combined programs. However, the specialty goal must indicate either psychiatry or one of the combined options.

http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/userlogon/PublicFactSheet_2005.htm

 

[psychbender]

Why would you have to rank TY as #2 and then everything else? You would match to the TY, making everything else useless.

I'll see if I can dig up the FYGME application primer that was sent out this past summer, but I am fairly certain that they required that you list a TY after listing all of the programs for your specialty goal, and before listing any programs for other specialties. Please standby.

 

[psychbender]

I think psychbender is wrong on this account. You can rank a mixture of psych and combined programs before ranking TY. Here's a quote from an old fact sheet from 2005 (note that the Army psych-fp program is no longer active, I think):



http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/userlogon/PublicFactSheet_2005.htm

Ahhh, I didn't see the Psychiatry-specific section, I was going on this part from the 2009 FYGME LOI:

3. Required Documents -
a. Rank Order List: The Army FYGME Preference Priority List is utilized to designate your specialty goal and rank your programs for the Army match process. Your specialty goal must be consistent with the programs that you rank. You are required to rank all advertised Army training locations associated with your specialty goal for the FYGME match; these must be the same Army programs designated in MyERAS. Any application not listing all programs in the specialty area and at least 1 transitional program (if appropriate) will be considered incomplete and will be returned to the applicant for completion.
- For specialty goals with fewer than five Army programs, you must rank a minimum of five Army programs; your first rankings should agree with your specialty goal and the balance of your list should be made up of at least one transitional program and then programs that can be considered as preliminary training such as the transitional year. You may list more than five programs,.

 

[DD214_DOC]

So I could choose Psych as my specialty goal, then rank Psych/IM as #1, then Tripler psych #2, NCC psych #3, then whatever I have to rank for 4 and 5?

 

[AKchick]

I am an Army HPSP student and I was talking with an Air Force HPSPer today-- she said that the Air Force 2009 match made for a TON of civilian deferrals because there weren't enough residency program spots for all the applicants. What is the story on this? She said all of these 4th year AF students were going to have to do civilian residencies, essentially against their will, no AF salary, etc. Is this common? And most importantly (for my own selfish reasons), does this ever happen in the Army? I had never heard of it--and I don't want a deferral!!

 

[psychbender]

I am an Army HPSP student and I was talking with an Air Force HPSPer today-- she said that the Air Force 2009 match made for a TON of civilian deferrals because there weren't enough residency program spots for all the applicants. What is the story on this? She said all of these 4th year AF students were going to have to do civilian residencies, essentially against their will, no AF salary, etc. Is this common? And most importantly (for my own selfish reasons), does this ever happen in the Army? I had never heard of it--and I don't want a deferral!!

The Air Force has been steadily shrinking their GME for years, and thus offer the most civilian deferrals of the three. I am not sure how many would view doing a civilian residency as some undesireable thing "against their will." I doubt such a thing will happen in the Army any time soon, unless they suddenly start closing residency programs left and right.

 

[Darkside90]

Also interesting is that the Army is also posting average board scores of matched applicants: https://apps.mods.army.mil/MedEd/HPSP/Powerpoint/GMEslideshow_files/frame.htm. Check out slides 13 to 15.

Is anyone else as suprised as I am about how competitive PM&R is? The average STEP I and II scores are about as high or higher than Ortho, ENT, Derm, etc. Plus they don't offer many positions. I may have to look into a civilian deferment. Anyone have any comments/advice?

 

[ieatpizza]

Is anyone else as suprised as I am about how competitive PM&R is? The average STEP I and II scores are about as high or higher than Ortho, ENT, Derm, etc. Plus they don't offer many positions. I may have to look into a civilian deferment. Anyone have any comments/advice?

These averages are only from the most recent match (there are plans to collect more data in future matches). Specifically, it appears the USMLE (Step I 234/Step II 241) is based on an n=1. The COMLEX (I 443/II 426) also appears to be based on an n=1; I'm not an osteopath so I don't how these scores are, but it seems to be one of the lowest averages compared to the other specialties on that powerpoint. With PMR being such a small specialty in the Army, competitiveness will fluctuate year to year based on interest (if look at the applicant to slot ratio in the past 5 years, it has ranged from 1.0 to 4.5).

 

[NavyFP]

These averages are only from the most recent match (there are plans to collect more data in future matches). Specifically, it appears the USMLE (Step I 234/Step II 241) is based on an n=1. The COMLEX (I 443/II 426) also appears to be based on an n=1; I'm not an osteopath so I don't how these scores are, but it seems to be one of the lowest averages compared to the other specialties on that powerpoint. With PMR being such a small specialty in the Army, competitiveness will fluctuate year to year based on interest (if look at the applicant to slot ratio in the past 5 years, it has ranged from 1.0 to 4.5).

400 is passing on COMLEX and 500 is average. So a 443 and a 426 are not very good. Looks like an excellent allopath and a mediocre osteopath. Were there only 2 applicants?

 

[jkmph]

400 is passing on COMLEX and 500 is average. So a 443 and a 426 are not very good. Looks like an excellent allopath and a mediocre osteopath. Were there only 2 applicants?

Not two dig up an old thread, but I have been unable to find this answer.

Do osteopathic students take both COMLEX & USMLE when applying to military residencies? Many do as civilian applicants and some consider it essential to match into an ACGME residency. Does the military have the same expectation of their osteopathic HPSPers?

 

[psychbender]

Not two dig up an old thread, but I have been unable to find this answer.

Do osteopathic students take both COMLEX & USMLE when applying to military residencies? Many do as civilian applicants and some consider it essential to match into an ACGME residency. Does the military have the same expectation of their osteopathic HPSPers?

For the most part, no. There area a huge number of DOs in the military, so they're fairly used to dealing with the COMLEX, even among the so-called "ROAD" specialties. Just kick ass on whatever board you have to take, don't bother taking the USMLE (and wasting the money) if you don't need to.