Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[notdeadyet]

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Thanks for the guidance guys. I will fill out the FAFSA as well. As far as the ASR program, I will relax a bit, butI guess it is always best to prepare for the unexpected (like getting denied HPSP!)

Preparing for the unexpected is always a good call.

FAFSA deadline at a lot of schools is 03/01, I believe. Even if you haven't done your tax returns, you can estimate and adjust later. Get it in because some schools will occassionally post stuff about grants or scholarships available to their students based on need and if you haven't done FAFSA, you won't even be considered.

Also, some schools automatically give a grant of a certain amount to all students, but FAFSA is often a requirement (idea being if you are rich enough to not need financial aid, you probably don't need the tuition break either).

 

[HeroesNbc]

hi folks. first time posting on this thread, but i've been reading majority of the posts. could anyone clarify this: asr for first 3 years of med schl, then mdssp (strap jr) for ms4= no additional obligation beyond the 8 yr mso? 2 different amedd recruiters stated this was the case (versus taking "regular strap" during internship/residency which will add years<--this i understand)

and how about if mdssp was taken during ms1 followed by asr (ms2-4)=can both be served concurrently during the 8 yr mso? thanks in advance

 

[notdeadyet]

asr for first 3 years of med schl, then mdssp (strap jr) for ms4= no additional obligation beyond the 8 yr mso? 2 different amedd recruiters stated this was the case (versus taking "regular strap" during internship/residency which will add years<--this i understand)

That is incorrect. MDSSP comes with a 2:1 obligatoin. For every year you accept the $1,900/mo you get with MDSSP, you owe the Guard 2 years. So if you took MDSSP for your MS 4, you would tack on another two years of drill-time you'd owe the National Guard.

and how about if mdssp was taken during ms1 followed by asr (ms2-4)=can both be served concurrently during the 8 yr mso?

No. Any obligations that you get acquire through the National Guard outside of what you owe for ASR will be paid back after you fulfill your ASR duties. This includes MDSSP or any of the benefits you can pick up in residency.

 

[amindwalker]

You cannot go from MDSSP to ASR. ASR is for new commissions only. Koojo posted a link a few posts back that spells that out in black and white. You can however go ASR (MS I-III) to MDSSP (MS IV), but you will (as notdeadyet mentioned) incur an additional 2 year obligation. I would do that if I wasn't graduating next year.

 

[AlphaPower]

Hi, this is my first post ever on SDN. Thank you for this invaluable thread! I got accepted into UNC two weeks ago. I'm very interested in this ASR program, and I would like to get in touch with an AMEDD recruiter in Raleigh, NC asap. Can someone please help me out with that?

Also, I've only been able to read about half of the posts. Are there still ASR spots left for this year?

 

[amindwalker]

Yup. PM one of us and you will be hooked up. Whose turn is it?

 

[EMH]

Yup. PM one of us and you will be hooked up. Whose turn is it?

Honestly, we should consider organizing somewhat. Make a list of who is in what state and try to get the leads to the person that needs them. I'm in Arkansas if you talk to anyone from there PLEASE send them to me.

 

[EMH]

Hi, this is my first post ever on SDN.

It's my favorite study distraction. And I also learn quite a bit here. I keep meaning to become a donor. Now that I've got a job maybe it's time.

 

[amindwalker]

I'm in Pennsylvania.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm in California.

 

[akoman]

I'm in Iowa

Ditto on the study distraction!

 

[PrinceOfPersia0]

hey I got a question from the guy in PA cause Im applying to their guard too. I know we get $4500 from federal govnt. But how much money we get from the state for school? I know they said something about matching up to the undergrad tuition for the state school if your going private. You know how much that would be around?

 

[amindwalker]

I have not heard about that (the matching thingy). I submit that is prolly just for undergrads. I can put you in contact with my boss in PA if you would like (ya gotta PM me). Have you been accepted into med school?

 

[pianoman90]

Can you all elaborate on the duties while in med school? I read somewhere that you may be required to give presentations, etc... to students. I just worry about this plus the overwhelming course load in school. Also, as an ASR, will I be required to meet a quota each month like other ANG recruiters?

 

[rookem11]

michigan here

 

[rookem11]

Can you all elaborate on the duties while in med school? I read somewhere that you may be required to give presentations, etc... to students. I just worry about this plus the overwhelming course load in school. Also, as an ASR, will I be required to meet a quota each month like other ANG recruiters?

Pianoman: We have no quotas. Depending on your state you may be required to meet with the recruiting team once a month and pass on new leads. Also I don't know that presentations are required but I have given a few to both my medical school and some premed groups in the state. To be honest even if there was a quota it wouldn't be a problem. I think we have something like 20 packets going right now, I can hardly keep track.

 

[amindwalker]

Yeah, this deal really sells itself. I've picked up 10 people at my school just by wearing the uniform and answering some questions. My CO told me yesterday to just keep doing that 'cuz it's working. I would do presentations, but it's just not necessary.

 

[amindwalker]

BTW, I need a favor.

I've been asked/told to put together a report regarding all of my referrals. If I referred you, please PM me with your name, state, & phone #. I put many of you in contact with a regional recruiter without even knowing your names (I just knew your SDN names).

Thanks guys

 

[notdeadyet]

Yeah, this deal really sells itself. I've picked up 10 people at my school just by wearing the uniform and answering some questions. My CO told me yesterday to just keep doing that 'cuz it's working. I would do presentations, but it's just not necessary.

You wear your uniform as a third year? I'd be curious to see if my hospital would let me swing that.

 

[amindwalker]

At the hospital: Class B (with tie) under my whitecoat when not in scrubs. On campus: ACU.

 

[EMH]

Class B under my whitecoat.

I never realized you were wearing the uniform in rotations. Have you experienced any negativity from residents/attendings for this?

 

[koojo]

Did my board today with one officer. Tomorrow I do another board with the 2 other officers and I take the oath. Thank god this is almost over.

 

[notdeadyet]

At the hospital: Class B (with tie) under my whitecoat when not in scrubs. On campus: ACU.

As an aside, did you buy your class B online or at the PX or somesuch? I need to get mine and was curious the easiest way to go about it.

I'm having a tough time finding people still selling them online. I definitely want to get a set for daily wear before the new ASU's are rolled out. Ugly. As. Sin.

 

[koojo]

Wait, are we supposed to wear a uniform when we go to class when taking ASR...?

 

[EMH]

Wait, are we supposed to wear a uniform when we go to class when taking ASR...?

I don't. But I believe since you're on orders it's authorized. Amindwalker chooses to do so. It's how he recruits, people say "why are you wearing a uniform".

 

[amindwalker]

Regulations are pretty specific about active duty officers wearing the uniform of the day (UD or UOD) when on duty at their duty station (UD is where the leeway is to be found). The official policy regarding ASRs has not yet been set (because it is still a new program & policy makers haven't gone to med school, so there are things that haven't yet come up).

The policy in Pennsylvania is 3x/week minimum (actually set about an hour ago) unless it is inappropriate at your school/hospital. Last year when I got my orders, I asked NGB about it (because I thought some students might get turned off by the prospect of having to wear a uniform), and the reply was that I should ask my CO. My CO then set the above mentioned UD which has today become policy.

Bottom line, ask your CO. The HPSP guys don't wear their uniforms because it is not necessarily appropriate. On active duty it is required unless otherwise stated by your chain of command. If you don't wanna wear a uniform every day, get your CO to say you don't have to. Get it in writing for absolution (because of the specificity of the regs; obviously, not everyone's a med student).

My school (LECOM) has a dress code, so ACU is really convenient for me. If you go to a school where a banana hammock and a 2-beer Helmut is considered normal, then you might feel a bit stifled by the ACU. If LECOM did not have a dress code I would prolly only wear my ACU once in a while, truth be told.

EMH: No problems with anyone while on rotations. I mostly get thanked for my service. Some Douche bag PGY-1 did bitch me out about a month ago for having my hands in my pockets 'cuz he was prior enlisted and felt the need to dress-down an officer. He was right and wrong at the same time.

Notdeadyet: I bought them at clothing sales (Affes).

Koojo: emoticons are standing by.

 

[EMH]

Here we're a little more formal than the banana hammock but I think the beer hat would probably be well received by most of my class and faculty in the first two years. A policy like yours would make it more difficult to recruit here.

Sort of off topic. Which ASU do we need to get for OBLC (in October). I believe the website said green but it seemed obvious some of that hadn't been updated in a while. Is blue or green acceptable? And is the Class A needed or just suggested?

 

[koojo]

Here we're a little more formal than the banana hammock but I think the beer hat would probably be well received by most of my class and faculty in the first two years. A policy like yours would make it more difficult to recruit here.

Sort of off topic. Which ASU do we need to get for OBLC (in October). I believe the website said green but it seemed obvious some of that hadn't been updated in a while. Is blue or green acceptable? And is the Class A needed or just suggested?

You don't need an ASU when you go to OBLC. Check out this website: http://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/obc/1RCOBLC.htm, and click on the packing list in the bottom left corner. At the bottom of that document it says the ASU isn't needed, but you can purchase it when you're down in Fort Sam Houston. The base has a Clothings and Sales as well as a big PX...which is like a big Walmart but you don't have to pay taxes on anything you buy there. I plan on getting a new Class A jacket, since the one I have now is too tight on me. I got it when I was in basic training like 7 years ago.

 

[EMH]

You don't need an ASU when you go to OBLC. Check out this website: http://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/obc/1RCOBLC.htm, and click on the packing list in the bottom left corner. At the bottom of that document it says the ASU isn't needed, but you can purchase it when you're down in Fort Sam Houston. The base has a Clothings and Sales as well as a big PX...which is like a big Walmart but you don't have to pay taxes on anything you buy there. I plan on getting a new Class A jacket, since the one I have now is too tight on me. I got it when I was in basic training like 7 years ago.

Thanks, I've read that more than one time in the past but either it's changed or I remembered what it said incorrectly. I've discovered that I have a hard time remembering anything these days that won't show up on an exam somewhere.

 

[ScottW]

Update: paperwork sent up to 1st board, waiting to hear back. If everything goes smooth I should be sworn in by late march, early april. 🙂.
Questions:
1. For other people who are considering ASR that we're recruiting, are the spots going to "fill up" for this year? Or was that a hypothetical 200 person per year limit? A friend of mine considering the program is concerned the spots may fill up.
2. Just out of curiousity, could someone who is receiving ASR pay give me an estimate to how much per month we receive after taxes? I know its different for people with dependents, etc. I'm single and no dependents. I'm assuming around $3000/ month after taxes. Any insight?
thanks.

 

[notdeadyet]

2. Just out of curiousity, could someone who is receiving ASR pay give me an estimate to how much per month we receive after taxes? I know its different for people with dependents, etc. I'm single and no dependents. I'm assuming around $3000/ month after taxes. Any insight?
thanks.

It's going to vary so much as to not mean a whole lot.

Your base pay is going to depend on if you have dependents or not (wife/husband and/or kids) and if you're prior service or not. BAH (housing) depends a lot on your zip code. BAS is $203/mo (if memory serves).

My total comes out to be $4,260 before taxes. Only your base pay is taxed, so that works out to be about $3500/mo for a married, non-prior service guy living in northern California. YMMV. Look online and you can plug in your real situation.

 

[starfishprime]

Do I need to make up my mind ASAP to be one of this year's 200... or is it too late already?

 

[pianoman90]

Can someone PM me the info for an ASR/AMEDD recruiter in Alabama? I'm having trouble getting in touch with someone and I'm interested in this program.

Question...if I'm moving to FL in July to attend med school, should I start the paperwork here in AL?

 

[notdeadyet]

Do I need to make up my mind ASAP to be one of this year's 200... or is it too late already?

You need to make your mind up ASAP if you want to try for the last quarter of this year even if they have plenty of space.

The next ASR pay start (and the last of the year) is 1 JUL. To make that, you would have to finish your paperwork and go through two board reviews and be commissioned by June 1st. That's about three months away. Some have made it in that amount of time but many weren't able to.

Hurry on your paperwork and best case scenario, you make it for 1 JUL. Worst case scenario either you can't get your ducks lined up that quick and you start 1 OCT or they hit the 200 limit before getting all the 1 JUL hopefuls in the books and you have to start 1 OCT.

Either way, start the paperwork now. There is plenty of downtime for you to decide if you don't want to take the program. I waited until I was sure and then entered a 10 month process...

 

[deadlocked]

Either way, start the paperwork now. There is plenty of downtime for you to decide if you don't want to take the program. I waited until I was sure and then entered a 10 month process...

I was wondering what made you finally decide to do it notdeadyet??

I'm filling out paperwork now and I start medical school in August down here in FL. As of now I'm not sure 100% I'm going to accept, but I do want the option. I want to serve but I don't want it to interfere with any of my educational goals (whatever they may end up being, I don't want to be limited/restricted from something, hence no-way HPSP).

Also, when does the Army get its time out of me? I know they will somehow, which is my main hesitation.
Assuming I only accept the ASR for MS1-3, followed by a surgical residency, I am never deployable??😕 (4yrs medschool and >4yrs residency)

They are willing to pay me ~150K$ and make me an officer, in exchange for a little recruiting for 3yrs, drill on some weekends with the unit for 8yrs and never be deployable to actually help troops or really "serve"? (Excluding a huge catastrophic event making me leave residency)

I've read through the whole forum and that seems to be the gist, but it doesn't feel right somehow. OTW it seems like an awesome deal!

 

[ohio23]

Deadlocked and pianoman, where are you guys attending school in FL? I'll be at LECOM Bradenton, class of 2013.

Yes you should initiate paperwork with recruiters in FL if that is where you'll go to school. I'm working with CPT Elliott, who has been very very helpful throughout the process. PM me for his contact info.

I've filled out all the paperwork and taken my chapter 2 physical. I believe we are just waiting for the results of that to be finalized before things really start progressing.

I'm also nervous about the number of spots left. Not getting in would be like being one number away from a winning lottery ticket. I've got my fingers crossed!

 

[deadlocked]

I'm going to UMMSM, Miami campus.

Also, if I'm planning trips out of the country, do you think that is going to really mess up my physicals and all that?

Why do we need to be all done by June 1st to make it into the July 1st start?

 

[koojo]

Why do we need to be all done by June 1st to make it into the July 1st start?

ASR program starts 4 times a year. July 1st is a payout period, so you must have the ASR paperwork in and processed by June 1st. If not then you'll start October 1st.

 

[EMH]

Thanks, I've read that more than one time in the past but either it's changed or I remembered what it said incorrectly. I've discovered that I have a hard time remembering anything these days that won't show up on an exam somewhere.

I found where I printed that document a few months ago and it did say that you were supposed to have the class A so they must have changed it. I don't feel crazy anymore.

EDIT: Okay, now it seems the document I printed was for BOLC not OBLC.

 

[notdeadyet]

As of now I'm not sure 100% I'm going to accept, but I do want the option. I want to serve but I don't want it to interfere with any of my educational goals (whatever they may end up being, I don't want to be limited/restricted from something, hence no-way HPSP).

I ruled out HPSP for the same reasons. Little control over residency, zero control over you life and where you live for several to many years. If you still want to serve in the military in some way, you're left with the Reserves or NG and ASR is the best program in town.

Also, when does the Army get its time out of me? I know they will somehow, which is my main hesitation.

The logic behind ASR is that the NG hopes you'll stay in. Unlike full-time Army, a fair number of NG physicians stay in to retirement. So the Guard is using ASR to get enough of a pipeline to maintain manpower. Once enough are in the pipe, I'm sure ASR will go away.

Assuming I only accept the ASR for MS1-3, followed by a surgical residency, I am never deployable??😕 (4yrs medschool and >4yrs residency)

No. You are not deployable during med school nor internship. During residency, you are very unlikely to ever be deployed, but technically, they can do it. HIGHLY unlikely.

Also, you could be stop lossed and not able to resign your comission. HIGHLY unlikely.

They are willing to pay me ~150K$ and make me an officer, in exchange for a little recruiting for 3yrs, drill on some weekends with the unit for 8yrs and never be deployable to actually help troops or really "serve"? (Excluding a huge catastrophic event making me leave residency)

Correct. I think the Guard is doing ASR for three reasons:

1. Get a pipeline of incoming NG docs to replace those retiring. Primary goal.
2. Get word out about the Guard via "recruiting". Distant second.
3. "In case of emergency, break the glass". Have a pool of physicians they can call up if there is sufficient need. Even if you take ASR in your first year of med school, they technically have 3 years that they can pull you up for as long as they want if circumstances are bad enough.

Again, 3 is HIGHLY unlikely. But I'm sure the military likes to have that in their back pocket.

OTW it seems like an awesome deal!

Agreed. It really is.

 

[EMH]

Good post.

 

[deadlocked]

Awesome, thank you notdeadyet!

I was kind of figuring all of that. Basically I get a good deal and "In-case of Emergency" I go, but it has to be a big emergency to pull me out of residency and even bigger to pull me out of med-school. It is basically what I prefer. I was a volunteer firefighter and it was the same deal: normal life till there is an emergency, with some weekly/weekend training stuff.

Also, some quick math with the figures of taking 200 ea. fiscal year up to 600 total from what I read. (Which follows with the "phase out" idea of ASR after numbers are up enough).

Assuming ~150K per ASR * (600 ever) =
$90,000,000 total cost over life of program (prob more like $100mil)

What I am guessing is that they hope to eat the initial investment in "promotional costs" essentially over a few years (with the caveat of having ~600docs to call up when needed), and enjoy the benefit of people signing up for their other programs when the ASR is unavailable or full-up and/or ASR ppl-->addn'l programs: MDSSP, STRAP etc...

But that is all conjecture and me talking out *****, so I could be way, way off.

Thanks again for the all the info. I'm going to try to crunch through my pre-screen med form this afternoon.

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, some quick math with the figures of taking 200 ea. fiscal year up to 600 total from what I read. (Which follows with the "phase out" idea of ASR after numbers are up enough).

Assuming ~150K per ASR * (600 ever) =
$90,000,000 total cost over life of program (prob more like $100mil)

What I am guessing is that they hope to eat the initial investment in "promotional costs" essentially over a few years (with the caveat of having ~600docs to call up when needed), and enjoy the benefit of people signing up for their other programs when the ASR is unavailable or full-up and/or ASR ppl-->addn'l programs: MDSSP, STRAP etc...

But that is all conjecture and me talking out *****, so I could be way, way off.

No, your logic makes sense. $90m sounds like a lot of money to get you to sign up, but it's not in the big picture. You cost them $150K to sign on the dotted line for 8 years. It's double that for HPSP.

 

[AlphaPower]

I talked to my local recruiter in NC. He said since there's only 1 person in the program right now in the state, even if the 200 spots fill up, he might be able to request for more. Does that sound right to you guys? It doesn't to me.

Second, I'm a 31 year old career changer. I read here someone got some waivers for some physical exam? I have a thyroid condition for which I have to take a pill every day. I'm on the lowest dosage, and if I miss it for a few days, no big deal, just makes me tired. My recruiter said he should be able to get a waiver for it. For those of you that had to go through something similar, what do you guys think?

Finally, if you stay on in ARNG after your obligation is over for 20 years, I understand you qualify for military retirement, but you can only get it when you're 60. But are the benefits the same as the regular military retirement otherwise? i.e. full medical?

Thanks!

 

[Mr. Freeze]

The way my recruiter put it to me, and I think she was familiar with the formation of ASR, was that if half stay in, the Guard will break even on the investment of three years of ADSW salary. True? Dunno, don't care.

I'm in oklahoma BTW, but person covers pretty large region so if there is not someone from the board local to you lemme know, and I'll see if she covers your state. Not that she'll return my email now that I've signed!!

Which brings me to, what have you third and fourth years been told re: OBLC. You promote to o3 on grad anyway. So is oblc required? My orders say I have to go before the second anniversary of active service. I take this to mean adsw time, but idk. I will not be able to do it as a resident, and need to pick my schedule for msiv soon. Anyone know for sure?

 

[notdeadyet]

I talked to my local recruiter in NC. He said since there's only 1 person in the program right now in the state, even if the 200 spots fill up, he might be able to request for more. Does that sound right to you guys? It doesn't to me.

Who knows? No harm in applying and if you find it fill up, ask yourself if you still want to sign up starting three months later.

Second, I'm a 31 year old career changer. I read here someone got some waivers for some physical exam?

I had a med waiver, though nothing like for thyroids.

Just be honest. The recruiter will put in for a waiver. I hear they're pretty generous about what they waive. If the initial waiver is denied, you can appeal. They are funky about some conditions being permanently DQ and you have no hope of a waiver, but I haven't heard of thyroid problems on that list. Don't know.

Finally, if you stay on in ARNG after your obligation is over for 20 years, I understand you qualify for military retirement, but you can only get it when you're 60. But are the benefits the same as the regular military retirement otherwise? i.e. full medical?

First, it's 65. At least for NG.

Second, the way it works is that you have to be on Medicare B. Then you have to purchase Medicare B, which is about $100/mo. After you've paid to use these services, anything in excess of these accounts are covered by Tricare for Life.

 

[notdeadyet]

Which brings me to, what have you third and fourth years been told re: OBLC. You promote to o3 on grad anyway. So is oblc required?

My understanding (others correct me if I'm wrong) is that you are non-promotable until you have gone to OBLC. Whether that makes you ineligible for promotion to O3 on graduation is irrelevant, because of the two year requirement. Extensions can be applied for, but it would be a tough sell if you're trying to get out of it. They know you can't go in residency.

My orders say I have to go before the second anniversary of active service. I take this to mean adsw time, but idk. I will not be able to do it as a resident, and need to pick my schedule for msiv soon. Anyone know for sure?

You have two years to do OBLC. If you can't do it in residency (and I sure as hell wouldn't count on it), you have to do it in fourth year. Any reason for the hesitation? I think if you take the ASR money, you sort of lack the option of not going to OBLC.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Other than it being a surprise that I HAD to go, no hesitation. I transcribed my initial convo with recruiter and it was described as optional but preferred. Ink is barely dry on my ****, and already I've got "my recruiter told me a lie" stories! 🙂

Well, does anyone have dates? And any way to swing it as an elective in leadership or something? 🙂

 

[notdeadyet]

Other than it being a surprise that I HAD to go, no hesitation. I transcribed my initial convo with recruiter and it was described as optional but preferred. Ink is barely dry on my ****, and already I've got "my recruiter told me a lie" stories! 🙂

Bummer. Mine have been nothing but straight with me.

Well, does anyone have dates?

Go here. There's a link for current schedule. Keep in mind that some of those dates fill up pretty far in advance though.

And any way to swing it as an elective in leadership or something? 🙂

Depends on your school. Since the training includes no patient contact whatsoever, I have to use it as part of the pot of weeks we have for didactics/research/vacation.

 

[EMH]

Other than it being a surprise that I HAD to go, no hesitation. I transcribed my initial convo with recruiter and it was described as optional but preferred. Ink is barely dry on my ****, and already I've got "my recruiter told me a lie" stories! 🙂

Well, does anyone have dates? And any way to swing it as an elective in leadership or something? 🙂

To quote someone who gave me advice on stuff like this. "The army can do what ever it wants". Meaning that while it is required, if they want to promote you they can. On the other hand they could give you the boot.

To find dates for OBLC search on ATRRS
https://atrrs.army.mil/atrrscc/
The course # is 6-8-C20(RC).