Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[v-lander]

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I'm so not well versed when it comes to matters of the law - I've never really got into trouble in my life other than 3 speeding tickets in 14 years (which makes this TRO even harder to swallow for me). Does anyone know how these things work? To my knowledge, it's not technically a crime so if the TRO were to be removed, would it then be gone off my "record" (i.e. it wouldn't affect my ASR chances)?

 

[EMH]

posted in EM forum, but maybe better to post here...how do yall feel about the conditions for getting a job post-residency, (ie when you are now deployable in the ASR program), do think it will hurt your chances for a getting hired, are there enough jobs open it doesn't matter, will it hurt you in more "competitive" markets? thanks!

I think none of us are qualified to give a good answer to this question. I'd ask some of the guard docs in your state this question.

 

[koojo]

My packet is pretty much complete. We sent it up to NGB and it was returned due to some discrepencies, but that's being fixed and will be forwarded back to NGB.

So what I'm being told is that because I'll be going to school in WV, I have to fly down there probably next month or so (whenever the packet is done), and swear in to become a commissioned officer.

I should be enrolled in ASR by March, and probably start getting paid in April (before school even starts).

The best way to do it is not to sign up for strap, special pay, or loan repayment on the spot. The reason is that all these programs require additional obligation, and because you have these obligations, you cannot receive the physician special pay, which you get for "reinlisting" every three years. The special pay now is $75k, and is a 3 year obligation. So theoretically every three years you will be paid $75k ($25k/year). If you do sign up for STRAP or MDSSP, you must first fulfill their obligations, prior to being eligable for special pay. You cannot be eligiable for both. Also, the Loan Repayment isn't that great because it gives you $50k and a 3 year obligation...whereas if you sign up for Special Pay down the road, you will get $75k and a 3 year obligation (it will probabably be a lot more than $75k in a few years).

 

[EMH]

I have made some updates to the FAQ and first post of this thread. If you want to add or change something let me know.

 

[dogpython]

just curious what kind of equipment, uniforms, badges, and stuff you receive when you join and what is going to need to be purchased and how much to expect to spend?

 

[notdeadyet]

The reason is that all these programs require additional obligation, and because you have these obligations, you cannot receive the physician special pay, which you get for "reinlisting" every three years. The special pay now is $75k, and is a 3 year obligation. So theoretically every three years you will be paid $75k ($25k/year).

From my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), you can collect the Special Pay while in residency (assuming it's in one of the approved specialties), but your obligation will be paid back AFTER your initial obligation is owed. So if you were due to finish your obligation two years after residency, it would now be five.

Just wanted to clarify, as the Guard site is a little vague on this added obligation.

 

[NavyFP]

From my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), you can collect the Special Pay while in residency (assuming it's in one of the approved specialties), but your obligation will be paid back AFTER your initial obligation is owed. So if you were due to finish your obligation two years after residency, it would now be five.

Just wanted to clarify, as the Guard site is a little vague on this added obligation.

Residents in their first residency only get Variable Special Pay.

 

[BKMD]

just curious what kind of equipment, uniforms, badges, and stuff you receive when you join and what is going to need to be purchased and how much to expect to spend?

I just became offical in this amazing program. I had to spend about $200 on a uniform and boots. They gave me most of the patches and I had to order some. I think I may need to buy some more uniform items for OBLC. They told me if anything qualifies as "equipment" I don't need to buy that. The example the used was a cold weather jacket is equipment and would be given to me. Hope this helps.

 

[iatrosB]

I just became offical in this amazing program. I had to spend about $200 on a uniform and boots. They gave me most of the patches and I had to order some. I think I may need to buy some more uniform items for OBLC. They told me if anything qualifies as "equipment" I don't need to buy that. The example the used was a cold weather jacket is equipment and would be given to me. Hope this helps.

Honestly, plan to spend closer to $800 when it's all said and done.

 

[EMH]

just curious what kind of equipment, uniforms, badges, and stuff you receive when you join and what is going to need to be purchased and how much to expect to spend?

Officer's do have to buy their own uniforms. This means your ACU's and boots and also your PT uniform. You will get a uniform allowance to pay for the stuff but you don't get it until you've completed OBLC. You can be issued a goretex coat and fleece. I think if you go about it right you can get issued camelbaks and such. Since you'll be in recruiting you will be interacting with the people who have all the free marketing stuff to give out. I've gotten a nice coat and I'm working on one of those digital camo national guard backpacks and some digital camo scrubs.

An ACU uniform without boots will cost about $140 including all the misc stuff like socks, t-shirts, belt, and patches.
A good pair of boots can be bought for $100.
So far I've gotten by with one uniform.

 

[starfishprime]

I've read the thread, but I don't think I've seen this question asked or answered:
What are health/fitness requirements for med students joining?
I'm about 15 pounds over the weight chart max. for new enlistees, and possibly slightly over the body fat requirement. I could pass the APFT pushups barely... I need to add about 10 situps and shave a couple minutes from my 2-mile-run.
So, what's the deal? Do I need to whip myself into shape before seeing a recruiter?

 

[iatrosB]

Officer's do have to buy their own uniforms. This means your ACU's and boots and also your PT uniform. You will get a uniform allowance to pay for the stuff but you don't get it until you've completed OBLC. You can be issued a goretex coat and fleece. I think if you go about it right you can get issued camelbaks and such. Since you'll be in recruiting you will be interacting with the people who have all the free marketing stuff to give out. I've gotten a nice coat and I'm working on one of those digital camo national guard backpacks and some digital camo scrubs.

An ACU uniform without boots will cost about $140 including all the misc stuff like socks, t-shirts, belt, and patches.
A good pair of boots can be bought for $100.
So far I've gotten by with one uniform.

Things to think about are the fact that you will need at least two more ACU's for OBLC (I think 3 is plenty), another pair of boats, PT gear, etc. Another thing to remember is that all that recruiting stuff with logos are NO GO at OBLC...they freak out about any logos on bags, camelbacks, etc (we're talking Nike, National Guard, whatever).

 

[EMH]

I've read the thread, but I don't think I've seen this question asked or answered:
What are health/fitness requirements for med students joining?
I'm about 15 pounds over the weight chart max. for new enlistees, and possibly slightly over the body fat requirement. I could pass the APFT pushups barely... I need to add about 10 situps and shave a couple minutes from my 2-mile-run.
So, what's the deal? Do I need to whip myself into shape before seeing a recruiter?

I can say that one of the first things a recruiter is going to do is size you up. The fitness standards aren't going to be important until you get to OBLC but the height weight is an absolute requirement for joining. You will have to either be under your weight at MEPS or tape within the requirements. If they look at you and think you won't be able to pass this requirement there's a good chance they won't take you very seriously.

 

[iatrosB]

and the clothing allowance is about $500...almost half what you spend.

 

[iatrosB]

I've read the thread, but I don't think I've seen this question asked or answered:
What are health/fitness requirements for med students joining?
I'm about 15 pounds over the weight chart max. for new enlistees, and possibly slightly over the body fat requirement. I could pass the APFT pushups barely... I need to add about 10 situps and shave a couple minutes from my 2-mile-run.
So, what's the deal? Do I need to whip myself into shape before seeing a recruiter?

You do not have to pass the APFT...even in OBLC.

 

[notdeadyet]

You do not have to pass the APFT...even in OBLC.

What about during the three years? If you're activated National Guard during ADSW, wouldn't you be required to pass the APFT 2x/year like the rest of activated guard?

 

[starfishprime]

You do not have to pass the APFT...even in OBLC.

Quote from OBLC Class Advisor Welcome Letters pulled from the web:
" .Students that cannot meet minimum physical requirements for the course may be disenrolled from the course, recycled to the next scheduled course after they are able to meet the minimum physical requirements, or recommended for separation from the Army.."

What are said minimum physical requirements, if not the APFT?

 

[EMH]

Quote from OBLC Class Advisor Welcome Letters pulled from the web:
" .Students that cannot meet minimum physical requirements for the course may be disenrolled from the course, recycled to the next scheduled course after they are able to meet the minimum physical requirements, or recommended for separation from the Army.."

What are said minimum physical requirements, if not the APFT?

I've been under the impression that you have to pass at OBLC but I haven't been so I don't know.

 

[starfishprime]

"3. OBC (RC) includes a physical fitness evaluation (as
measured by the Army Physical Fitness Test) and field training .
exercises (FTX). Officers will not be enrolled in this course if.
they have a medical or physicalcondition, or a valid physical
profile (to include a pregnancy profile), that precludes them
from participating in the field training exercises, or the
mandatory Diagnostic Army Physical Fitness Test (DAPFT)"

Whether or not a passing score is required, dunno.

EDIT:
"b. RC Soldiers, however, are not required to pass the
DAPFT because they are not stationed at Ft. Sam Houston long
enough to develop themselves physically before returning to their
units."
​

 

[Mr. Freeze]

I was told not to worry about APFT during the ADSW period. Which sounded really strange to me. I guess as long you are held to 600-9, height-weight standards, there won't be fat-bodies running around trying to sell AMEDD to people.

 

[iatrosB]

nothing to see here

 

[iatrosB]

nothing here either

 

[starfishprime]

All you have to do is ATTEMPT the APFT...not PASS, I promise, I just did it 2 months ago.

That's good to know.
However, I don't like to fail. Therefore, I'm going to go do some pushups 😉.

Thanks.

 

[jyoudan]

FAQ:

• As I understand it they do not reject applicants, they take the first 200 each year (the military year begins 1 OCT). If you apply for an ASR spot and they're already full then you are put on the list to get one when the next fiscal year begins 1 OCT.

I had a couple questions, and being my first post, excuse me if i missed something from another thread.

Is this 200 acceptance figure for the nation or per state? If so, b/c the military year starts on oct 1st, would you be applying during your first year of med school? Or do you apply after you get your acceptance letter, and since the 200 spots for that year have already been given out, you will be in the 200 figure for the following year.

Also, Im still not really understanding the difference between ARNG and IRR in terms of deployment. Were you trying to say that if in the 2 of 8 years could can in be in IRR, deployment would be longer that the 90 day policy? If so, you can opt to remain in the ARNG for all 8 years? Personally, I dont think a 3 month deployment is too bad, but I dont want to make some mistake that gets me deployed for any longer than that.

 

[EMH]

I had a couple questions, and being my first post, excuse me if i missed something from another thread.

Is this 200 acceptance figure for the nation or per state? If so, b/c the military year starts on oct 1st, would you be applying during your first year of med school? Or do you apply after you get your acceptance letter, and since the 200 spots for that year have already been given out, you will be in the 200 figure for the following year.

Also, Im still not really understanding the difference between ARNG and IRR in terms of deployment. Were you trying to say that if in the 2 of 8 years could can in be in IRR, deployment would be longer that the 90 day policy? If so, you can opt to remain in the ARNG for all 8 years? Personally, I dont think a 3 month deployment is too bad, but I dont want to make some mistake that gets me deployed for any longer than that.

About the 200 spots. It's 200 nationwide. The ideal way to do it would be to start applying when you get an acceptance letter. Last year they didn't get 200. It's uncertain how quickly they will reach the 200 # in the future but as a rule of thumb, the sooner you get on it the sooner your chances of getting started.

About the ARNG and IRR I am basing my statement on what I've been told so other people's knowledge may be helpful here as well. Your MSO is 8 years from the day you start. Since your obligation to the ARNG is only 6 years you could spend the last two years of your MSO on IRR status. I was told that this isn't a very good idea because you can be picked up by any branch of the service for a deployment and the 90 day policy likely wouldn't apply to you. I think as a general rule, the people in the guard will be more likely to look out for you if you are one of them and not trying like mad to get out. Docs in my state tell me they look out for each other.

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, Im still not really understanding the difference between ARNG and IRR in terms of deployment.

When you are in drilling status of the ARNG, you current policy is a maximum of 120 day deployments, 90 days boots-in-sand (30 of the 120 would be in the States preparing to leave or returning).

In IRR, if you were activated, you would be activated into the active Army, which I believe is currently doing 12 month deployments.

A couple of things to keep in mind, though:

If you were in the National Guard right now, your odds of being deployed would be very good. It would happen no more than once every 18 months or so, but odds would be very good you would be called up.

NO DOCTOR in the IRR has been called up in this war as of yet. That's not to say it couldn't happen, but it's highly unlikely.

Were you trying to say that if in the 2 of 8 years could can in be in IRR, deployment would be longer that the 90 day policy?

Yes. Though, again, your odds of being called up are pretty remote. Closer now than anytime since Vietnam, but it hasn't happened yet, so I wouldn't be particularly worried about it necessarily happening.

If so, you can opt to remain in the ARNG for all 8 years?

Yes. They'd love it.

Personally, I dont think a 3 month deployment is too bad, but I dont want to make some mistake that gets me deployed for any longer than that.

Hmmm.

Do not sign up for the ASR program thinking that you can only be deployed for 90 days. That is current policy, but that might not be the policy 7 years from now when you're drilling. National Guard deployments for physicians could very well be standard 1 year deployments. You have no way of knowing.

Before taking the National Guard money, be sure you are comfortable with the idea of being deployed. If you aren't, it's not a smart scholarship to take. And don't put too much stock into the policies that are in place right now, because they could be very different by the time you sign up.

90 days boots-in-sand is not going to be in your contract. It is a policy that can be changed by a flick of the pen. Your contact only mentions that you will be drill status for six years, a total MSO of 8 years, non-deployable during medical school and internship. Anything beyond that should be taken with an asterisk.

 

[notdeadyet]

Since your obligation to the ARNG is only 6 years you could spend the last two years of your MSO on IRR status. I was told that this isn't a very good idea because you can be picked up by any branch of the service for a deployment and the 90 day policy likely wouldn't apply to you.

I'm with you on this one. But I think the issue isn't as big as people make it out to be.

There is an outcry right now over the amount of folks that were pulled in off of IRR. It's not something the military does lightly. They are much more prone to extending tours and up-tempo'ing than they are pulling folks in from IRR.

So if things got so bad that they really needed docs, I think you'd find the Army extending the 90 day boots-in-sand a lot sooner than they'd start blowing the mothballs off of folks on IRR.

So the IRR or not-to-IRR is probably something that is pretty moot until it's time to flip the switch. They haven't pulled up doctors yet on IRR, so unless things get a lot worse before they get better, I wouldn't be too frightened of it happening right now.

 

[jyoudan]

So i've read everything you guys have said, and yikes that is a lot, thanks for all ur advice and knowledge, this definitely something you'd wouldn't find easily on a military site.

I was wondering, could any of you sum up which of the stipends or programs you would be participating in if you were or were not going to be going into one of the specialties that qualify you for bonuses such as HPLRP. Ive read through koojo file as well (thanks for posting it!) but what did you all plan out or intend on doing? Id like to hear from all of you that are already in the program, if you dont mind.

From what I think so far...

Med School Years 1-3: ASR
Med School Year 4: Federal Tuition Assistance
Residency: MDSSP and STRAP = 3 year additional total b/c now 1:1,
Professional: HPLRP (3 years), HPB (3 years)
This would all be for 17 years MSO? but only 11 if you do not enter one of the bonus qualifying specialties and do not take the HPLRP and HPB.

All these acronyms are confusing...

One more question. Do you know if you go to a medical school in another state, can you qualify for resident tuition as a member of the national guard?

 

[EMH]

From what I think so far...

Med School Years 1-3: ASR

You can actually get ASR and FTA at the same time, you can also get the CME trip money once a year from the day you start.

Med School Year 4: Federal Tuition Assistance

You could take the strap stipend as well this year if you wish.

Residency: MDSSP and STRAP = 3 year additional total b/c now 1:1,
Professional: HPLRP (3 years), HPB (3 years)
This would all be for 17 years MSO? but only 11 if you do not enter one of the bonus qualifying specialties and do not take the HPLRP and HPB.

I actually get a bit fuzzy on some of the post graduation stuff. I figure I'll figure it out when I get there. Someone else can fill in some of this detail.

One more question. Do you know if you go to a medical school in another state, can you qualify for resident tuition as a member of the national guard?

This info is based on something that a HPSP recruiter told me. What he said was "If uncle sam is going to pay for your school, he's not going to pay out of state tuition." This is a question that should be asked of someone in the education office at your state's guard. I keep meaning to ask but forget when I'm up on base.

 

[jyoudan]

This info is based on something that a HPSP recruiter told me. What he said was "If uncle sam is going to pay for your school, he's not going to pay out of state tuition." This is a question that should be asked of someone in the education office at your state's guard. I keep meaning to ask but forget when I'm up on base.

But they don't really pay for your tuition besides for the FTA though right? So what does it matter to them if you are paying in state vs out of state tuition?

 

[stiz]

I think the key word here is 'diagnostic' ...

"3. OBC (RC) includes a physical fitness evaluation (as
measured by the Army Physical Fitness Test) and field training .
exercises (FTX). Officers will not be enrolled in this course if.
they have a medical or physicalcondition, or a valid physical
profile (to include a pregnancy profile), that precludes them
from participating in the field training exercises, or the
mandatory Diagnostic Army Physical Fitness Test (DAPFT)"

Whether or not a passing score is required, dunno.

EDIT:
"b. RC Soldiers, however, are not required to pass the
DAPFT because they are not stationed at Ft. Sam Houston long
enough to develop themselves physically before returning to their
units."
​

 

[iatrosB]

But they don't really pay for your tuition besides for the FTA though right? So what does it matter to them if you are paying in state vs out of state tuition?

You'll get FTA no matter what. As for state money, who knows. What you have to remember is that, unlike HPSP, the FTA has a cap and they pay UP TO a certain amount (usually based on in state tuition). So there may be a gap where you're not covered.

 

[iatrosB]

From what I think so far...

Residency: MDSSP and STRAP = 3 year additional total b/c now 1:1,

When did STRAP become 1:1?

 

[notdeadyet]

Med School Years 1-3: ASR
Med School Year 4: Federal Tuition Assistance
Residency: MDSSP and STRAP = 3 year additional total b/c now 1:1,
Professional: HPLRP (3 years), HPB (3 years)
This would all be for 17 years MSO?

I don't know if you're tossing this out for the sake of checking your math or if this is an actual plan. But I'd be very careful about committing to a 17 year MSO for the sake of paying for medical school.

If you live frugally and spend wisely, with ASR alone you can graduate from medical school anywhere from debt free (for low tuition schools, or states like Illinois where being in the Guard = free tuition) to owing about $100K (going to an average osteopathic or the most expensive allopathic school).

ASR to me is the smartest financial military service option. But if you add on MSSSP/STRAP/HPLRP/Special Pay, you're packing on the years of obligation, and can do so to the point of absurdity.

Worst case scenario, you could owe $100K, which can be paid off over several years. 10 years of extra service for the sake of that $100K is not the best decision you could make.

My $0.02, plan on taking ASR and then play things by ear. Wait until residency, when you are drilling as a physician with your local Guard unit and see if the Guard is for you. If it is, consider signing up for a program that commits you to another few years (max). After residency, consider waiting until your first deployment to deciding whether or not to commit to anything more than a few years at a time.

Life changes a heck of a lot over 17 years. You will not be the same person you are now 17 years from now. You may fall in love and want to move to Paris for a year. You may want to do Doctors without Borders. You may want to take six months off an hike the Appalachian Trail. None of these things will be possible until you pay back your MSO.

The only exception I'd make to this is if you are prior service who regrets leaving and just misses the military terribly. In which case, you're probably better off with UHUHS or even HPSP.

 

[starfishprime]

states like Illinois where being in the Guard = free tuition

I believe this is only true for public schools - 2 out of Illinois' 7 schools. I also believe that there is no state program for tuition assistance at the other 5.

This also leads into another question: does free tuition/federal tuition assistance start on day one of year one, or is there a minimum time of service before it counts? (I vaguely recall something about one year...)

 

[notdeadyet]

This also leads into another question: does free tuition/federal tuition assistance start on day one of year one, or is there a minimum time of service before it counts? (I vaguely recall something about one year...)

No clue. I'm in California where "none" leaves little room for ambiguity.

 

[jyoudan]

When did STRAP become 1:1?

"Dual Participation in MDSSP & STRAP – The MDSSP obligation is re-calculated at six months for each six months (or part thereof) that the stipend was paid to the individual. MDSSP obligation changes from to one year for one year of benefits (cuts obligation time in half)."

This is what koojo had in his file you could download, although I havent been able to find any proof of this on the national guard website.

shrugs

 

[jyoudan]

I don't know if you're tossing this out for the sake of checking your math or if this is an actual plan. But I'd be very careful about committing to a 17 year MSO for the sake of paying for medical school.

No, no, just trying to see if im actually understanding whats going on.

 

[jyoudan]

I believe this is only true for public schools - 2 out of Illinois' 7 schools. I also believe that there is no state program for tuition assistance at the other 5.

This also leads into another question: does free tuition/federal tuition assistance start on day one of year one, or is there a minimum time of service before it counts? (I vaguely recall something about one year...)

It really depends upon the state, which each have their own rules in regards to tuition waivers. Some states even help pay for private schools, while other will pay the tuition as well as fees for public schools (MA). I recommend looking on this site.

http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/EN/Benefits/Browse/ByStateOrRegion/

 

[notdeadyet]

No, no, just trying to see if im actually understanding whats going on.

Good stuff. Sorry for jumping down your throat. I see a lot of folks more than willing to swear on a 12 year or more military commitment without giving it too deep thought. This troubles me. Maybe I'm just projecting, but if I'd made 12 year binding commitments when I was 22, I'd be one miserable camper now...

"Dual Participation in MDSSP & STRAP – The MDSSP obligation is re-calculated at six months for each six months (or part thereof) that the stipend was paid to the individual. MDSSP obligation changes from to one year for one year of benefits (cuts obligation time in half)."

I wouldn't trust this. Every mention I've heard about these programs is 6 months = 1 year obligation.

Do a quick google and you'll get info to back it up. Even on the National Guard website, it mentions the 6 months = 1 year obligation.

I've had nothing but good experiences with the recruiters who've walked me through this. But I have found that there is a lot of misquoted information out there on the Internet.

 

[Handsome1]

I have to say this is one of the better run threads out there, and the program is very tempting. I guess my question is just for a specialty like neurosurgery; I couldn't see this working out. You are grinding 88hrs in a residency notorious for its pace (if they follow hours). I could see certain program directors hesitant to rank a student who will have another serious commitment. Females are often questioned about pregnancy and family for example. This could be enough to bump you just a few spots which is crucial when programs only have 1, 2 or 3 spots. You barely get one day off a week; I could see a conflict in not performing on both ends. "Golden weekends" that you would need to serve are rare. I could see fellow residents having to cover your end, getting mad, etc... and if you don't get a truly understanding commander things could get really out of control on the other end. I'd love for any insight.

 

[starfishprime]

I guess my question is just for a specialty like neurosurgery; I couldn't see this working out.

That's a dilemma I am presently wrestling with. Mostly, I'm hesitant to limit my future specialty choices due to lingering military commitment. (Though I'm presently more interested in the primary care specialties.)

I am interested, passingly, in neurosurgery... though I'm unsure I'll have the drive, grades, foresight, or steadiness of hands to be successful. For this reason, I tend to value cardiothoracic surgery slightly higher, because of the more flexible and less competitive general surgery residency track.

 

[notdeadyet]

I have to say this is one of the better run threads out there, and the program is very tempting. I guess my question is just for a specialty like neurosurgery; I couldn't see this working out. You are grinding 88hrs in a residency notorious for its pace (if they follow hours). I could see certain program directors hesitant to rank a student who will have another serious commitment.

I think that's a totally valid concern.

Residency program directors will know that you have National Guard commitments. Technically, they can't discriminate against you for it, but realistically, they can do as they please. It's such a subjective process.

And looking at it from their eyes, it's hard to blame them. You have a commitment that you have to take the equivalent of a weekend off every month, schedule be damned (assuming your CO does not approve flexi-time). This isn't such a big problem for psych or family practice, but I can see how it would be for neurosurgery.

There's also the risk of activation. Every residency program director has either lost residents activated by the National Guard or heard of other residency program directors who have. You've only non-deployable for ASR during your internship year. Realistically, I think things would have to be pretty dire for them to pull you from residency, but the risk is there. And civilians aren't going to make a distinction between ASR and regular National Guardsmen, who are not protected against deployment at all.

Lastly, something that doesn't often get mentioned, ASR protects you against military deployments but I haven't seen anything in there stopping you from being activated for state emergencies. Depending on where you are, this may not be such an issue, but for California, between fires and floods, our National Guard gets mobilized pretty frequently. Probably won't happen to you each time, but it's a risk.

If you're looking at a competitive specialty, I think it would be foolish to not acknowledge that your National Guard involvement will be viewed as a liability at some places and a benefit at others. And realistically, I think you'd get more of the former than the latter.

 

[EMH]

I have to say this is one of the better run threads out there, and the program is very tempting. I guess my question is just for a specialty like neurosurgery; I couldn't see this working out.

I asked this question of my dean of students before signing up. My question was essentially the same but not specific for neurosurgery. He said that as long as I didn't try to match into derm or neurosurgery he was confident it wouldn't be a big deal. He said if I wanted to match into one of the super competitive specialties and I had the grades/rank/step 1 to match into it then it may affect me at some programs but I should still be able to match somewhere.

Just a note, I don't expect this to affect me because I don't have straight A's and won't be able to match derm or neurosurgery anyways.

 

[ohio23]

This is a great thread! I've been enlisted in the OH Air Guard for 8 years and have loved it. I've now been accepted to a medical school in Florida (LECOM-B) and was looking at the Early Appointment Program for Physicians to stay in the Air Guard. Google ANGI 41-102 for the regulation governing this program. It looked appealing because it offered a bit higher drill pay as an officer vs enlisted and it specifically guarantees non deployment in medical school. There are a few other small benefits like military medical training courses (read: active duty pay), but none come close to what the army is offering. If the Air Guard offered this I'd have a mild MI and sign up immediately.

This is such a great deal that I am toying with the idea of switching to the Army Guard. My main concern is the military service obligation. In the Air Guard my prior service as an enlisted, drilling college student would negate the service obligation. In short I could drill as a 2LT/1LT while in medical school and be completely done after that.

If I could join the Army Guard ASP program for 3 years and not incur the MSO thereafter, I think it would be really really hard to say NO.

Anyone have a regulation to reference on this? I like to back up word of mouth with actual regs.

Thanks to all the people involved in this program for sharing valuable information! You are earning your salary! You definitely caught my attention; only 1 hour ago I wouldn't have given the Army a second thought. Thanks for opening my eyes to new possibility.

To those out there in college still, consider the Air Guard as an option to pay for school. The OH ANG paid my tuition and fees for two bachelor degrees for drilling 2 days a month. It's a great program!

 

[EMH]

This is a great thread! I've been enlisted in the OH Air Guard for 8 years and have loved it.

I'm not sure if you've thought of this yet or not, but with your years in so far your base pay would be significantly higher than us non PS folks. There was a post somewhere back talking about prior service and this program you might want to look at.

Start reading at post #16 on this thread.

 

[ToothBuster22]

FAQ:





Will the ARNG pay for my tuition?

• There is federal money that can help. You can get, if you qualify, up to $4500 a year towards tuition by the Federal Tuition Assistance (FTA) program. I believe that if you get this and you are paying OOS tuition at a public school that they have to charge you in state tuition. There is also the GI bill that you may qualify for once you complete OBLC. Some states have additional money you may be eligible for, this link may be helpful.

EMH,

Is it really true that you can get in state tuition if you qualify for this? Could you tell me where you heard that? I am currently attending a state school and am paying OOS tuition up the wazzu, so it would be really nice if I could find a way to pay IS tuition for my last three years.

 

[EMH]

I have yet to verify that and honestly I should probably remove that until I know for sure. If you are in a situation that this would benefit you then I would ask your state's recruiter. I believe the person to talk to would be someone in the education office at your state's base.

It might be worth asking as well of your school's registrar if you could attempt to be reclassified as an in state student since you are a member of your state's national guard.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

You've only non-deployable for ASR during your internship year.

I haven't seen this. Have a source? I have the exemption from mobilization memo, but it doesn't mention this.

 

[tsbuqh]

Here is a link for a memorandum from AMMED that answers some of the questions asked about non-ASR ARNG incentives. I recommend taking the time and reading through it line by line. As a prior military officer, I have seen many examples of what people thought they understood about their commitments they made not holding true to the language of the written contracts.

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/arng/ocs/amedd_incentives_program_guidance.pdf

For those of you who won't take the time to read it all, here are some quotes that may answer some questions that have been surfacing in this thread.

Statement of Understanding.
Army policy currently provides that those officers participating in STRAP and MDSSP will not be available to local commanders, or to the DARNG, in meeting mobilization cross-leveling requirements unless the Surgeon General approves such action. In the event of war or national emergency, participants will be subject to being ordered to active duty as required by HODA. In view of the foregoing, residency training may be interrupted in order to meet those mobilization requirements described above.

Special Pay
1) The special pay may not be offered again until any remaining service obligations from other incentives previously executed have been fulfilled.
2) Physicians, listed in the critical shortage list attached, must have completed residency training and meet all requirements for board candidacy in their specialty.

STRAP
1) f. Resident physicians must attend scheduled ARNG weekend drills for the duration of their authorized stipend phase in accordance with the ARNG Flexible Training Policy or at the discretion of the unit commander.

2) It is feasible that a physician could qualify for STRAP, in their third year of residency elect for HPLR and once both HPLR and STRAP payments have ceased could then receive Special Pay.

3) b. STRAP recipients that were accepted directly from the MDSSP program will have MDSSP contract amended. The STRAP obligation is calculated as a one year obligation for each six months (or part thereof) that the stipend was paid to the individual; however the MDSSP obligation is re-calculated at six months for each six months (or part thereof) that the stipend was paid to the individual.

MDSSP
1) MDSSP obligors incur an obligation of one year for every six months (or part thereof) for which they receive the stipend. This obligation period will be satisfied immediately following Medical/Dental School completion unless the individual elects to enter into the STRAP program for residency in an eligible specialty. In that event, the original MDSSP contract will be amended to defer the obligation until residency is complete.
(my undersanding of this clause is that you could do ASR for MS1-3, then MDSSP for MS4, and then serve out your MDSSP obligation in PGY1-2 and as long as you do not sign up for STRAP it will not add to your orginal commitment. ASR does not really have a repayment clause, just the original 8 year officer contract for new officers or a two year contract for prior officers who have already completed their initial 8years.)

2) Students must attend scheduled ARNG weekend drills for the duration of their authorized stipend phase in accordance with the ARNG Flexible Training Policy or at the discretion of the unit commander.

3) The monthly stipend payment is currently $1,605 per month. The monthly stipend increases annually on 1 July by the percentage that the Military Pay is increased that year, and is projected to increase to $1,907 per year in 2009.

Dual Participation in Both HPLR and Special Pay Programs.
a. The HPLR and Special Pay may be offered and contracted at the same time, in either order. However, payments and the payback time will be consecutive.