Arrowhead/Riverside/Downey vs Broward/Jackson/Mt Sinai

[zoner]

can students that have rotated at some of these hospitals give some inputs as to the quality of education they received there? I realize that these places are all selected by lottery system, but it seems like the majority of the student body rotates through one of these hospital at one point or another

for instance

1. how much work did they do?
2. attitude towards m3 or m4
3. how much scut works were there and what the corresponding schools do to protect their students from having to do too much scut works instead of learning

Thank you

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[cliquesh]

I dont know anything about them, but you should look at their web pages and see if they offer residencies in stuff you are interested in.

 

[411309]

i think arrowhead is a cool name

 

[zoner]

I dont know anything about them, but you should look at their web pages and see if they offer residencies in stuff you are interested in.

they both do and they all have great reputation, so i am trying to get the inside detail such as the quality of their teaching and how much we actually get to do as m3/m4

hey cole, there is a lake by that name straight up the mountain from Colton

 

[cliquesh]

How many electives do those school offer during m3 and m4? Early electives are important

 

[zoner]

How many electives do those school offer during m3 and m4? Early electives are important

really? i have another thread going where only one person thought doing an elective during the 3rd year was important

 

[cliquesh]

really? i have another thread going where only one person thought doing an elective during the 3rd year was important

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. 3rd year electives, for the most part, are worthless. Having many electives early in your 4th year is very important.

 

[488677]

I would go to DMU if I were you.

 

[ModernAlchemist]

I would go to DMU if I were you.

👍

 

[Mbeas]

dude this is getting ridiculous

 

[toxicwombat]

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. 3rd year electives, for the most part, are worthless. Having many electives early in your 4th year is very important.

How on earth are 3rd year electives worthless?

 

[cliquesh]

How on earth are 3rd year electives worthless?

Few hospitals offer electives to 3rd years. No university hospital will allow you to rotate as a 3rd year. I had a hard time finding a place that would let me do anesthesia as a 3rd year. Also, you are pretty much a ****** during your 3rd year, which means you are not going to impress anyone.

I guess it's nice to get exposure to something you're interested in early on, but , for me, 3rd year electives were more of a hassle than anything else.

It is important to have many early 4th year electives. When I say early, I mean having multiple electives before October 31st. If you apply to acgme programs you send your application out on September 15.

 

[PistolPete]

Recent WesternU grad here. Also interviewed at several other schools, including DMU.

Rotations at Western are decent, depending on the track you get, but they try and make them equal.

Arrowhead is the large county hospital for San Bernardino county were WesternU and Touro-CA do a lot of their cores. You will learn a good amount here. Lot of pathology. A number of our students go to their FM/IM/Neurosurg/ObGyn DO residencies here.

The other big hospital we also rotate at is Riverside Regional Medical Center, the county hospital for Riverside. Also a lot of pathology here. Never rotated here myself, so I can only go by what I heard, but they teaching is pretty good. Not sure how many spots will be left for us here in the future, though, since UCR is opening up their (allopathic) medical school.

I also rotated at Downey Regional medical center and thought this was one of the best teaching sites. Good exposure, albeit a little smaller than ARMC. This was a bit of a far drive from Upland for me though.

After that, the rotation sites drop off a bit. Citrus Valley doesn't take that many students and is so-so. Long Beach is far unless you live at there, and is so-so.

A lot of students go to Chino Valley medical center, and it is decent for some rotations like IM/surg, and not so great for others (psych).

We also go to Pomona Valley Medical center for ER which gives good exposure, and you can do other electives here but when I was a student we only did ER for our cores here.

We do get 1 elective 3rd year which is huge. You can go anywhere.

4th year is all electives except for 1 month IM subI, 1 month surg sub I (can also be interventional rads, anesthesia), and 1 month ER. So 4th year is very flexible.

In general the education was what I expected, first 2 years are like any other med school, 3rd year rotations were average or some above average, and then 4th year rotations can be very good if you do electives at great teaching hospitals nearby at UCLA/UCIrvine/Kaiser etc. Wish, like all DO schools, we had our main teaching hospital like our allopathic counterparts so that we don't have to drive so much.

 

[zoner]

Recent WesternU grad here. Also interviewed at several other schools, including DMU.

Rotations at Western are decent, depending on the track you get, but they try and make them equal.

Arrowhead is the large county hospital for San Bernardino county were WesternU and Touro-CA do a lot of their cores. You will learn a good amount here. Lot of pathology. A number of our students go to their FM/IM/Neurosurg/ObGyn DO residencies here.

The other big hospital we also rotate at is Riverside Regional Medical Center, the county hospital for Riverside. Also a lot of pathology here. Never rotated here myself, so I can only go by what I heard, but they teaching is pretty good. Not sure how many spots will be left for us here in the future, though, since UCR is opening up their (allopathic) medical school.

I also rotated at Downey Regional medical center and thought this was one of the best teaching sites. Good exposure, albeit a little smaller than ARMC. This was a bit of a far drive from Upland for me though.

After that, the rotation sites drop off a bit. Citrus Valley doesn't take that many students and is so-so. Long Beach is far unless you live at there, and is so-so.

A lot of students go to Chino Valley medical center, and it is decent for some rotations like IM/surg, and not so great for others (psych).

We also go to Pomona Valley Medical center for ER which gives good exposure, and you can do other electives here but when I was a student we only did ER for our cores here.

We do get 1 elective 3rd year which is huge. You can go anywhere.

4th year is all electives except for 1 month IM subI, 1 month surg sub I (can also be interventional rads, anesthesia), and 1 month ER. So 4th year is very flexible.

In general the education was what I expected, first 2 years are like any other med school, 3rd year rotations were average or some above average, and then 4th year rotations can be very good if you do electives at great teaching hospitals nearby at UCLA/UCIrvine/Kaiser etc. Wish, like all DO schools, we had our main teaching hospital like our allopathic counterparts so that we don't have to drive so much.

Pistol: Thanks for the rotation sites at Western. They were excellent and very informative. So when you say some were above average/alright do you mean that as in it was educational and not much scut work? What does Western do to protect their rotating students from scut works and etc...? Do those hospitals have somewhat close working relationship with Western admin?

Why did you think having that 1 elective was huge? Is it possible to do all your core at Downey and Arrowhead?

 

[Siggy]

Why did you think having that 1 elective was huge? Is it possible to do all your core at Downey and Arrowhead?

Probably not. You can try to get as many cores as possible, but Downey and ARMC is generally really hard to trade to get into because so many people want them. I got lucky and ended up originally scheduled for 5 of 7 rotations (not counting elective or the ones that can't be done at ARMC) at ARMC and another one at Riverside (OB/Gyn). Neither Downey or ARMC offer an OMM rotation (which is a required 3rd year core) and everyone does an IM at Rancho Los Amigos rehabilitation hospital in Downey (designated IM3).

 

[PistolPete]

Having 1 elective in 3rd year is huge because it allows you to do a rotation that is non-core that you may have an interest in, and allows you to solidify whether in fact this is something you may want to apply to 4th year, ie anesthesia, radiology, PMR etc. Wouldn't it suck if you were thinking anesthesia all along, did research, got your letter writers to talk about how awesome you will be for it, only to do your first rotation of 4th year in anesthesia and have all your aways already set up, and realize you hate that field?

Therefore it's an advantage to have a 3rd year elective somewhere in the middle of the year for you to try out the field.

Not really possible to have EVERY rotation at ARMC/Downey due to how the tracks work. You will go to a bunch of different settings, which is good in a a way because you can figure out what you like.

ARMC and Downey are great because there is minimal scut work and good teaching, from residents and attendings. To be honest I was never really subjugated to scut work at any rotation site, so that was never an issue, it was always about the academics.

 

[Siggy]

Not really possible to have EVERY rotation at ARMC/Downey due to how the tracks work. You will go to a bunch of different settings, which is good in a a way because you can figure out what you like.

ARMC and Downey are great because there is minimal scut work and good teaching, from residents and attendings. To be honest I was never really subjugated to scut work at any rotation site, so that was never an issue, it was always about the academics.

...except that the majority of non-ARMC, non-Downey are low path, low volume sites. As a medical student, I don't need to be at a CVMC where all I do is an H&P with minimal teaching except which key words bill more. Heck, my specific family medicine team at ARMC has more ICU patients than all of CVMC on average does (not counting the patients on psych holds taking up CVMC ICU beds).

Side note for people not familiar with ARMC: ARMC IM practices a "closed ICU" where IM ICU patients are transferred to the ICU team (IM Team A). Family Medicine-Inpatient (FMI) only takes care of inpatients seen at the ARMC family med clinics, and if they end up in the ICU they are still managed by the FMI team they were admitted by.

 

[docnotsopc]

PistolPete: Jealous your class had EM core at Pomona Valley. We no longer have an EM core 🙁

I wonder what changed (our third year is 3 IM, 1 FM, 1 Surg, 1 OMM, 1 Peds, 1 Radiology, 1 psych, 1 OB/GYN , 1 vacation, 1 elective). Thats really disappointing considering im interested in EM.

Also, i find it interesting that you say ARMC is minimal work. The reputation among my class is that ARMC works students into the ground (not in a good way). Maybe things changed?

 

[zoner]

PistolPete: Jealous your class had EM core at Pomona Valley. We no longer have an EM core 🙁

I wonder what changed (our third year is 3 IM, 1 FM, 1 Surg, 1 OMM, 1 Peds, 1 Radiology, 1 psych, 1 OB/GYN , 1 vacation, 1 elective). Thats really disappointing considering im interested in EM.

Also, i find it interesting that you say ARMC is minimal work. The reputation among my class is that ARMC works students into the ground (not in a good way). Maybe things changed?

i thought the EM core was during the 4th year. where is that going to be at now?

also where did that 1 radiology come from? it's not on my list i got from the school during the interview day

 

[Siggy]

Also, i find it interesting that you say ARMC is minimal work. The reputation among my class is that ARMC works students into the ground (not in a good way). Maybe things changed?

"Minimal scut" and "minimal work" are not the same thing.

 

[zoner]

Hey Pistol, so what did you end up doing during your 3rd year elective and selective? When did you get them and did they help you decide on what you wanted to specialize in?

Please, any clinical year Western students fee free to chime in.

Btw, where are all the NSU students at???????????

 

[munchymanRX]

Hey Pistol, so what did you end up doing during your 3rd year elective and selective? When did you get them and did they help you decide on what you wanted to specialize in?

Please, any clinical year Western students fee free to chime in.

Btw, where are all the NSU students at???????????

We're in finals right now. Started on Monday.

Browards definitely near the top of my list. Great pathology, you get to learn the ins and outs of a hospital setting. Some opportunity for case reports/research, although it's on you to pursue them. Massive, 850+ bed hospital. It will prepare the **** out of you for medicine.

Also close to where I live and comparatively little commuting throughout the year compared to some of the Miami sites.

 

[Mbeas]

Massive, 850+ bed hospital.

this sounds phenomenal...right up my alley

 

[munchymanRX]

Oh, and NSU does not have a required OMM rotation.

You do come back to the main NSU campus for a couple days out of the year for OMM review, but it is not part of the core curriculum during your 3/4 year clerkships.

 

[zoner]

Oh, and NSU does not have a required OMM rotation.

You do come back to the main NSU campus for a couple days out of the year for OMM review, but it is not part of the core curriculum during your 3/4 year clerkships.

But nsu had 2 months of fm whereas western has only one month of fm and one month of omm. So evens out. No?

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[munchymanRX]

But nsu had 2 months of fm whereas western has only one month of fm and one month of omm. So evens out. No?

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No, because we don't have to do OMM during that extra month. Western students do. It's not the amount of time, it's what you spend it doing.

 

[zoner]

No, because we don't have to do OMM during that extra month. Western students do. It's not the amount of time, it's what you spend it doing.

But could you if you wanted to. I am interested in ortho and think omm will be awesome to learn. Plus my background is in the related field.

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[Siggy]

Also Family Medicine at COMP can be done as inpatient at ARMC. The Family Med Inpatient service is basically IM.

 

[PistolPete]

Did interventional radiology during my 3rd year elective, ended up in something completely different: psych. I set up my IR rotation about 2 months in advance at Kaiser LA. It was really awesome.

Just fyi, ER is a required rotation in 4th year, not 3rd.

So obgyn and peds are only 4 weeks now and they added radiology? I think that's awesome. I hated obgyn with a passion and 6 weeks was rough. Knowing radiology will help you on everything, esp internal medicine when they ask you to read a CXR during rounds.

 

[docnotsopc]

Did interventional radiology during my 3rd year elective, ended up in something completely different: psych. I set up my IR rotation about 2 months in advance at Kaiser LA. It was really awesome.

Just fyi, ER is a required rotation in 4th year, not 3rd.

So obgyn and peds are only 4 weeks now and they added radiology? I think that's awesome. I hated obgyn with a passion and 6 weeks was rough. Knowing radiology will help you on everything, esp internal medicine when they ask you to read a CXR during rounds.

Ya they mentioned that this year is first time OBGYN is 4 weeks. They switched it for logistical reasons.

Today they mentioned that the radiology might be an online course? In my opinion that would suck

 

[munchymanRX]

Ya they mentioned that this year is first time OBGYN is 4 weeks. They switched it for logistical reasons.

Today they mentioned that the radiology might be an online course? In my opinion that would suck

Radiology is definitely worthwhile. From what I hear you get pimped on it regularly starting immediately during 3rd year.

It's a class for us too during M1. In-val-u-able.

 

[zoner]

Ya they mentioned that this year is first time OBGYN is 4 weeks. They switched it for logistical reasons.

Today they mentioned that the radiology might be an online course? In my opinion that would suck

Radiology being part of the third year core is a news to me

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[munchymanRX]

Radiology being part of the third year core is a news to me

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He's probably talking about a pre-clinical course that you take so you can learn how to interpret x-rays, MRIs, and some nuclear scans without looking like a complete dunce on rotations.

at least that's how ours is.