As non-trad as it gets: an intro

[Giddybri]

Hello Fellow Nontrads!

I've been lurking a lot and love the advice and insight I get on SDN. Thought it was about time to introduce myself, though whether that generates much interest around here is questionable.

I'm a 36-year old at-home mom of 3 kids (8,6,3), West Point grad with decent, not stellar grades. I'm applying right now through AMCAS and AACOMAS, after going back to school for bio and orgo and taking the MCAT last year (30). My grades and mcat aren't fantastic, but hopefully good enough to take the next step. We'll see!

Meanwhile I'm taking the lactation consultant exam this summer after being a La Leche League leader for 5 years-- that's about the sole extent of my clinical experience, which I know is also a weakness in my application.

DH is in the Army and we're headed to Ft Carson next, so my faves are of course CU Denver (quite a stretch) and RVU (I believe I'm a strong candidate). But other schools in the midwest near Army posts are also on my list. (Kansas, Louisville, etc.)

Would love to hear from other moms, military spouses, and any random hecklers who want to comment or share advice. I'm feeling antsy after the anticlimactic clicking of the "submit" button on the AMCAS file.

Bri

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[desdes]

Good luck I am also married and at Ft Bragg I wish you the best in the cycle

 

[theseeker4]

Hello Fellow Nontrads!

I've been lurking a lot and love the advice and insight I get on SDN. Thought it was about time to introduce myself, though whether that generates much interest around here is questionable.

I'm a 36-year old at-home mom of 3 kids (8,6,3), West Point grad with decent, not stellar grades. I'm applying right now through AMCAS and AACOMAS, after going back to school for bio and orgo and taking the MCAT last year (30). My grades and mcat aren't fantastic, but hopefully good enough to take the next step. We'll see!

Meanwhile I'm taking the lactation consultant exam this summer after being a La Leche League leader for 5 years-- that's about the sole extent of my clinical experience, which I know is also a weakness in my application.

DH is in the Army and we're headed to Ft Carson next, so my faves are of course CU Denver (quite a stretch) and RVU (I believe I'm a strong candidate). But other schools in the midwest near Army posts are also on my list. (Kansas, Louisville, etc.)

Would love to hear from other moms, military spouses, and any random hecklers who want to comment or share advice. I'm feeling antsy after the anticlimactic clicking of the "submit" button on the AMCAS file.

Bri

Welcome! Clinical experience and shadowing is almost required everywhere...can you get anything in starting now so you would at least have something to update schools with later? Even if you can't update schools later with the information, if you aren't successful this cycle you will want to have clinical experience starting now to put on your application next cycle. Good luck on your application cycle, but I am not sure the Le Leche League is clinical "enough" for medical schools.

 

[Leslie_Knope]

Welcome. I admire you for being a LLL leader. I'm also a mom with a five month old. I don't think LLL is clinical experience but it is definitely community service.

 

[Giddybri]

Thank you! Yes, I know I need to do more shadowing. We're stationed in Germany and getting into the military clinic has been a goat rope of paperwork and bureaucracy, and in the end we're moving (a year after I started trying) without it being even finally approved to start. I did shadow 3 German doctors for a day or two each, but that's really not much.
When we get to the states next month I'm definitely going to try to set something else up. Would be nice to get some interaction with a DO in Colorado because I know that with DO schools it's important to have that.

 

[Goro]

I wish you the best but think that the lack of clinical experience will hurt, a lot. High MCAT/high GPA folks have been rejected for similar. After all, you have to show that you know what you're getting into, and that you like being around sick or injured people. Nursing moms are far from being sick.

Hello Fellow Nontrads!

I've been lurking a lot and love the advice and insight I get on SDN. Thought it was about time to introduce myself, though whether that generates much interest around here is questionable.

I'm a 36-year old at-home mom of 3 kids (8,6,3), West Point grad with decent, not stellar grades. I'm applying right now through AMCAS and AACOMAS, after going back to school for bio and orgo and taking the MCAT last year (30). My grades and mcat aren't fantastic, but hopefully good enough to take the next step. We'll see!

Meanwhile I'm taking the lactation consultant exam this summer after being a La Leche League leader for 5 years-- that's about the sole extent of my clinical experience, which I know is also a weakness in my application.

DH is in the Army and we're headed to Ft Carson next, so my faves are of course CU Denver (quite a stretch) and RVU (I believe I'm a strong candidate). But other schools in the midwest near Army posts are also on my list. (Kansas, Louisville, etc.)

Would love to hear from other moms, military spouses, and any random hecklers who want to comment or share advice. I'm feeling antsy after the anticlimactic clicking of the "submit" button on the AMCAS file.

Bri

 

[NCOldie]

I wish you the best but think that the lack of clinical experience will hurt, a lot. High MCAT/high GPA folks have been rejected for similar. After all, you have to show that you know what you're getting into, and that you like being around sick or injured people. Nursing moms are far from being sick.

Does sick-and-tired of nursing count?

 

[Plecopotamus]

Thank you! Yes, I know I need to do more shadowing. We're stationed in Germany and getting into the military clinic has been a goat rope of paperwork and bureaucracy, and in the end we're moving (a year after I started trying) without it being even finally approved to start. I did shadow 3 German doctors for a day or two each, but that's really not much.
When we get to the states next month I'm definitely going to try to set something else up. Would be nice to get some interaction with a DO in Colorado because I know that with DO schools it's important to have that.

Did you at least include your shadowing on your application?

As Goro has already indicated, the clinical experience isn't about box-checking or a requirement you can explain yourself out of by the fact that you were in Germany. Unfortunately, clinical exposure is all there is to prove that you know what you're getting into. As it stands, you're applying to medical school with no proof that you know what the daily grind of doctoring entails. I would have recommended against submitting the application this cycle give the lack of clinical exposure, because it is that crucial to convincing an adcom that admitting you will likely result in production of a practicing physician.

Since you've already submitted, do anything you can to get clinical hours ASAP, explain your situation in your secondaries and send updates when applicable to schools that accept them in order to keep them updated on your (hopefully rapidly) increasing clinical exposures and how it has only added to your desire to become a doctor. Be delicate in how you justify your lack of clinical experience to date in the secondaries, because this is something you should have been working on for years, and even if you're stationed abroad, it's hard to believe you couldn't find any accommodation in the past 4 years to do shadowing and/or clinical work/volunteering.

 

[Giddybri]

Does sick-and-tired of nursing count?

LOL! So true.

I do have the shadowing on my application, and I have the LLL as a "most meaningful experience," where I go more into having dealt with moms with lyme disease, undergoing surgery, milk supply problems, babies with severe allergies, down syndrome, premature, and twins... but I do see the weakness and will do what I can to bolster the shadowing.

Also, my personal statement, while risky in taking a heavy slant toward parenting, also goes into my experiences with pediatricians, emergency rooms, c-section and VBAC, etc. For what it's worth.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

Also, my personal statement, while risky in taking a heavy slant toward parenting, also goes into my experiences with pediatricians, emergency rooms, c-section and VBAC, etc. For what it's worth.

Well, I'm afraid seeing healthcare from the parent/patient side isn't really the perspective med schools need you to have had when they want to see that you "know what you are getting into". lots of people have crashed and burned claiming that seeing healthcare from the perspective of a family member getting care should count. Med schools want you to have actually "smelled the patients" or been put in situations where there is a substantial chance of being puked on by a stranger, and to have watched doctors administer care and seen it from their end. Definitely bolster your shadowing if you can squeeze it in.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

I don't think you are in a terrible position. If you don't get in this cycle definitely shadow a doctor in the states and maybe retake the MCAT (I'm not sure when it changes to the new format). I wish you the best this cycle but if you spend a year getting some shadowing you'll be in a much better position next year I think.

What were you branched in the Army? It may help.

 

[Quizlet04]

Volunteer at the local VA. That will give you buckets of clinical experience and you'll be doing a world of good.

 

[MetalloBetalactamase]

I though my lack of clinical experience would hurt me, all I have is volunteer hours for a hospital and hospice care, but the adcoms I talked to all seemed blow right through those.

 

[Giddybri]

I though my lack of clinical experience would hurt me, all I have is volunteer hours for a hospital and hospice care, but the adcoms I talked to all seemed blow right through those.

Just to clarify, by that did you mean that the adcoms didn't seem put off by your lack of clinical experience/ shadowing? That it wasn't as big a deal as we expect?

 

[Leslie_Knope]

I though my lack of clinical experience would hurt me, all I have is volunteer hours for a hospital and hospice care, but the adcoms I talked to all seemed blow right through those.

How are those not clinical experience? Did you not see patients as a volunteer for a hospital and hospice?

 

[Plecopotamus]

I though my lack of clinical experience would hurt me, all I have is volunteer hours for a hospital and hospice care, but the adcoms I talked to all seemed blow right through those.

Those are clinical experience.
?

 

[mommy2three]

Welcome from a fellow mom of three





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[MetalloBetalactamase]

Just to clarify, by that did you mean that the adcoms didn't seem put off by your lack of clinical experience/ shadowing? That it wasn't as big a deal as we expect?

My volunteer hours might be considered clinical, but I had no direct pt contact. I didn't take bp, pulse, temp, etc. My adcom seemed to focus on my academics. My interview contained questions addressing moral character. I stated in my secondaries that I had not done any shadowing, I wanted to get it done during the last semester as an undergrad, but I got offers from DO schools without it.

The adcoms seemed concerned not so much with shadowing as wondering if I realized that actual healthcare isn't like Grays anatomy, like the perfect med drama world. Pts are real world people, and include people of all classes. If your only experience is with one socioeconomic class, you might be put off by the affectations of another class, race, ethnicity........think of the most inclusive set of people you can. Those are patients. The adcoms seemed to me to want me to connect with that concept more than anything. That and the fact that practicing medicine involved a lot of paperwork, including epaperwork.

 

[Giddybri]

Thank you, that's useful info!!

 

[Plecopotamus]

My volunteer hours might be considered clinical, but I had no direct pt contact. I didn't take bp, pulse, temp, etc. My adcom seemed to focus on my academics. My interview contained questions addressing moral character. I stated in my secondaries that I had not done any shadowing, I wanted to get it done during the last semester as an undergrad, but I got offers from DO schools without it. Not everyone I applied to, but certainly AZCOM, the one I wanted most. I did a few phone interviews with Drs etc.

The adcoms seemed concerned not so much with shadowing as wondering if I realized that actual healthcare isn't like Grays anatomy, like the perfect med drama world. Pts are real world people, and include people of all classes. If your only experience is with one socioeconomic class, you might be put off by the affectations of another class, race, ethnicity........think of the most inclusive set of people you can. Those are patients. The adcoms seemed to me to want me to connect with that concept more than anything. That and the fact that practicing medicine involved a lot of paperwork, including epaperwork.

Thank you, that's useful info!!

Clinical experience does not necessitate having patient contact in the form of taking bp, pulse, temp, etc. Clinical experience for a lot of pre-meds includes things like getting water and blankets for patients in a hospital. That you didn't feel your volunteer work was clinical experience does not mean it was not regarded as clinical experience if you were working in a hospital and hospice -- pre-meds aren't qualified to do much, and thus the scope of "clinical experience" simply means you committed to a job (volunteer or paid) where you had some responsibility in proximity to patients and doctors in such a way that you may have gotten an impression of the day to day of what you're getting into.

This is dramatically different from an applicant with NO volunteer or paid work in a clinical setting, and you are doing her a disservice to suggest that you are in the same situation as her.

 

[deleted367183]

This is just one person's opinion...but with less than stellar grades and MCAT I would eat the primary application fees, don't submit secondaries, withdraw, and reapply next cycle. I say this as someone who was unsuccessful in my first ill-planned cycle. It wasn't just the money--it was very demoralizing to begin my first "real, serious" cycle with a year of rejections already behind me. It wouldn't have been so bad to apply twice...lots of people do...but to do THREE cycles because of a dumb, not-for-real first cycle was really not fun.

I am not saying YOUR plan is dumb...I am saying my first cycle was dumb.

There are a lot of 30something people with the money and/or leisure, usually both, to get straight As, high MCAT, and a ton of unpaid research or volunteer stuff. It is just amazing. Maybe their spouse works, maybe they send their kids to a babysitter, maybe their first career was on Wall St., who knows? But they are out there.