Ask a DPT Admissions Director

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IndianaDPT

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I am the Director of Student Enrollment Services at Indiana University's School of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences in Indianapolis, and would welcome the opportunity to respond to general questions regarding the admissions process from the perspective of an admissions director.

Feel free to contact me on this thread, or if desired you can reach me at [email protected].

Best wishes to all for a successful application season!

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
Indiana University School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
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I am applying to schools this semester and have not completed A&p 1 and 2 along with physics 1 and 2. I have them scheduled for this upcoming year but only the grades for the first semester will be entered by decision time. How will this effect my application process?
 
@marronew:

Thanks for your question. This depends on the institution and their policies. Most programs seem to limit the number of prerequisites outstanding at application deadline.

From your message I can't tell whether you will have all four prerequisites outstanding or just two (that is, you'll be taking A&P 1 and PHYS 1 in fall, for instance) remaining in spring, assuming you are applying to programs with a fall start date.

If the programs you're applying to allow so many outstanding courses, then you'll want to be sure all the other parts of your application are strong, including GRE scores if required, references, and personal statement(s). Basically, there is less academic data on which to judge your academic preparedness for the DPT program. In this case the other materials become more important, in my opinion.

However, if the programs you are considering do not allow that many prerequisites to be outstanding, you should not designate these programs. When we receive an application with too many prerequisites outstanding, we cannot consider that application.

Best of luck to you!

Josh Morrison
 
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I was wondering if you could help me out with a problem I'm facing. I have tried tweeting to the PTCAS and I can't get an answer. I have taken both A&P 1&2 without lab but my school has adivced me to take two biology classes to make up for the lack of a lab. The biology classes are called Human Biology 1&2. The description of the courses say the main focus of the classes are human anatomy and physiology. In terms of applying to a school how would the school itself know that I have taken these classes to satisfy the lack of an A&P lab.
 
I had a question about the PTCAS essay, if one is a re applicant and wanted to reuse the same essay would that be frowned upon? Or is it best to write a whole new one, different from last years cycle?
 
Not sure if you can answer this for all programs, but for your specific program how valuable is going above and beyond the minimum required amount of observation hours? I've heard from students that they were told when declined by a program it was because of not enough observation hours, even though minimum requirement was met. After asking the admissions dept to these very same programs I was told that as long as you meet the minimum you will get credit on their point system to be accepted into their program and it will be equal to someone who does more than the minimum.

thanks in advance for your response.
 
@lombo:

Thanks for your question. I don't think it would be intuitive to most programs that your human biology labs are intended to satisfy the human anatomy and physiology labs. My suggestion is to contact the programs and include course syllabi in order to confirm that they will meet the program requirements.

Know that programs consider these things differently so you may receive different answers. IU keeps prerequisite sheets for many colleges and universities, so if your programs have this they can tell you what set of prerequisites from that institution are approved.

Bottom line is, it's always best to check, politely and with all the relevant information, before assuming these courses will apply as you intended.

Best,

Josh Morrison
 
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@ayyntee:

The general essay is the same this year as last, and for good reason, in my view. Most programs want to be sure that candidates have made a solid decision to attend PT school. It's a serious commitment both on the part of the student and the program.

We always say that students are joining the IU family when they commit to our program. How you articulated that last year may be different than this year.

I don't think there's a stock answer to your question, that is a set "yes" or "no." However, I would encourage you to reflect on your decision-making process and ensure that whatever essay you are submitting, it reflects your true intentions and interest in the field.

Best,

Josh Morrison
 
@paulrc:

Going beyond the minimum is encouraged for a number of reasons.

First, it shows you are committed to learning about the PT profession before you start.

Second, it shows motivation to enter PT school.

Third, it provides context and content for your interviews if required by various programs.

There is more helpful experience and not so helpful experience. My recommendation is to be exposed to a wide variety of PT practice settings and clinicians.

So again there's no set answer here, but more observation hours, and quality observations, could make a difference when it comes to an interview, and may put you "over the top" if programs take number of hours into consideration above their minimums.

Best wishes,

Josh Morrison
 
This thread might be good to be re-branded as a "sticky" if one of the moderators thinks that's a good idea. It seems like it could be very helpful to applicants.
 
Hello!

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I was just wondering if Indiana University, looked at the applicant holistically, or if it was GPA and GRE based for interviews etc?
 
@ptlover:

Thanks for your question. Full details on our admission process are available here: http://shrs.iupui.edu/physical_therapy/admissions/. I encourage you to read through each link carefully and also view the "About" link and the FAQs.

We base interview offers on the following:

1. Application completeness. This just means - did the applicant turn in all documents on time? Are PT hours verified? Are GRE scores reported? By the way, our GRE code is 1325. These get loaded into the IU student information system, so it's a faster process. But GRE scores are required to be submitted to this code.
2. Applicant cumulative (undergraduate) GPA, as calculated by PTCAS.
3. Applicant prerequisite GPA, as calculated by us (using PTCAS data).
4. Applicant GRE score -- we consider Verbal score only. Other programs use V+Q or V+Q+AW. We only use Verbal scores.

Based on a formula weighting 2-4 roughly equally, we invite applicants to interview. At the interview we examine PT experience, written responses to our questions, and interview performance. This year's interview date is Friday, December 6th. We'll invite between 80-100 candidates on campus for the mandatory interview. From this group we will invite 38-40 candidates to join the program. Typically between 30-40 applicants are placed on an alternate list.

To determine who is on the "admit" and who is on the "alternate" list, we simply add pre-interview scores to the interview score and rank by total score.

Hope this helps! Glad to hear you are interested in joining IU!

Best,

Josh Morrison
 
Josh, I have one PT who has been to the US for about 20 years, but his English is not perfect. This PT is submitting a recommendation letter for me. His written English is ok (his co-workers helped him to write it), but if a school contacts him on the phone, they will hear all the mistakes that he makes when speaking. I am not sure if that can have any bad impact on my application. ???
 
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@easb:

I doubt that programs will be calling your references, so breathe easy on that one.

The point of references is to get a deeper sense of each candidate from those that know her/his work best. References on PTCAS are typically checklists with numerical rankings and then a space for comments. If the reference is strong on the numerical items and shows your experience and dedication to PT, I expect things to go just fine.

References are often a small part of a candidate's overall file. I would not expect many programs to weigh them heavily in the overall decision.

Good luck!

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
[email protected]
 
Hi Josh,
Does retaking the GRE have a negative impact on an applicant's chances for admission? Specifically, a low GRE score the first time and a higher GRE score the second time?
Thanks.
 
@DancerFuturePT

Thanks for your message. A low GRE first attempt may harm your chances, depending on the program's policies.

Indiana's program uses the highest GRE score. Some programs may take the average, highest score, or the first score. I'd check out the programs you are considering to determine their policies. Keep in mind that the GRE is only one part of an applicant's file. It is used to give some sense of academic preparation of a candidate, and isn't the only determinant of an applicant's rank in an applicant pool.

Best of luck to you! I do think this is not a huge concern for most programs.

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences
[email protected]
 
Josh,
Thanks for the quick reply! Another quick question: I know it varies by program; however, how much of an impact is it if an applicant hasn't completed all of the prerequisites for a program by the time of submitting the application? Coming from a student that has changed from athletic training to PT sophomore year of college, I have about 75% of prerequisites completed, and I am nervous this would be a reason for denial from a program.
Thank you again!
 
Hello Josh,

I'm in my last year of undergrad this coming fall. I plan on applying for the upcoming October deadlines at several universities, though I have core science classes I am retaking this coming fall, which are Biology 2 and Chemistry 2. But I know if I do send in grades and apply, they wont be able to receive my final updated grades for those targeted classes til probably mid semester or the end of the semester and I know those classes are crucial to the science GPA portion of the application. Will there be an affect on my acceptances? or is there anyway for the institution to see the grades in progress while retaking those courses?
 
@DancerFuturePT:

This is an area in which an applicant should tread carefully. I do not recommend designating programs in PTCAS and applying to programs for which you are unqualified in any way. So if a program says two prerequisites may be outstanding, it doesn't make any sense to apply with three outstanding. The application will just not be reviewed. Now, if the program says X prerequisites may be outstanding, this generally means all applicants are considered equally, no matter if the "real" X for an applicant is X, or X-1, or 0. That is, everyone's considered the same if they meet this X prerequisites outstanding rule. So it is likely not a factor, because programs reason that if you do well in all but 1-2 prerequisites, then the outstanding prerequisites should be fine also. Of course, these prerequisites will have to meet the requirements, such as C or higher if applicable. But I've not seen an applicant be admitted and then have to be denied due to poor final prerequisite grades.

These situations happen a lot for the Indiana University DPT program. We have a set of prerequisites and our rules must be followed in order to ensure each candidate is considered on the same level playing field.

If you meet or exceed all program requirements, there's no harm in applying. If you don't meet them, I wouldn't put forth that effort and the expense. We have to deny dozens of applications a year because applicants apply with too many prerequisites outstanding or make other fundamental admission errors.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
[email protected]
 
Last edited:
@rl91:

PTCAS does have an academic update feature, but you are likely correct that the updated grades will not be available to programs (that is, verified course grades) by the time the admission decision is made. For instance, IU has its interviews in early December, and we do not recalculate GPAs based on fall grades. So in this case you could earn As in all outstanding courses, but it wouldn't matter for our process.

Some programs may recalculate grades using fall scores if their process allows. This may be indicated on a program admission site, but if not it is useful to check with admissions staff.

Bottom line is: Yes, this will impact your chances.

I do not think many programs would look at "in progress" grades, because we have to consider each applicant fairly and it's quite impractical to obtain this data from the dozens of applicants that are otherwise complete in their applications.

Best of luck to you,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
[email protected]
 
Hi Josh,

Thanks for answering my previous question. I had one more. On the part of the application where you can describe how your academic record does not adequately reflect your abilities what is the best way to go about answering this question?
 
I believe he already answered this question somewhere in this thread, or maybe another.
 
He basically said don't mind excuses, but if you have genuine reasons that you think really influenced your ability to do well then go for it!
 
@ptlover:

The most honest and forthright way possible. If there were legitimate issues that prevented you from doing your best work, then articulate that. If they are not currently impacting your work, let us know. If they are, we need to know that you've developed a plan to deal with them and excel in spite of these challenges.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
[email protected]
shrs.iupui.edu
 
How much do you take into consideration classes taken 9 or 10 years ago versus classes taken within the last 4? Do you weigh the more recent classes more heavily?
 
@mikerags:

Thanks for your question.

The answer likely depends on the program. IU's program does not have any restrictions in this regard. Prerequisites don't "time out" after 5 or 7 years. Many programs have these restrictions, with the understanding that if it has been a long time since you've looked at anatomy, you're likely to be less competent in it than someone who has seen the course in the last few years.

If you are referring to prerequisites, I'd say the above holds, and you can easily find information about what the rules are on most program websites.

Regarding other courses and degrees, I doubt it matters at all. That you've been out of school of 9-10 years is not really a factor. What most programs are looking for are the most well qualified students; those they think will do well in the program. No program that I know of has the mindset that we should admit a certain number and work them until a few fail. That's not the goal. The goal is always to select a competent, high-quality class, and see them through to graduation and PT license.

IU doesn't weigh the last 60 credits or the last X years more heavily in the admission offer; it's just a matter of most well qualified in terms of verbal GRE, cumulative GPA, and prerequisite math/science GPA. Those in the top 80-100 are invited to interview, and from that list we select a class of 38-40.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
[email protected]
shrs.iupui.edu
 
How much influence does prior professional work experience that is not related to physical therapy have on an application? For example, a former military officer or manager in the business world looking to do a major career change.

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
IndianaDPT said:
I am the Director of Student Enrollment Services at Indiana University's School of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences in Indianapolis, and would welcome the opportunity to respond to general questions regarding the admissions process from the perspective of an admissions director.

Feel free to contact me on this thread, or if desired you can reach me at [email protected].

Best wishes to all for a successful application season!

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
Indiana University School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
Click to expand...

How do you guys look at repeated pre reqs and Ws
 
@diarock:

I expect the answer for most programs is "not much," at least until the interview phase. Keep in mind the idea is to find the most well qualified and capable applicants. To the extent that your non-health related experience supports your claims to qualifications, it can be helpful. I would certainly think that military service gives candidates discipline, a "never give up" attitude, and the ability to meet deadlines. These are all good things.

Will they make up completely for a lackluster academic record? I expect not for most programs. The point is to admit a class and graduate that class, and academic merit is certainly key to that discussion.

Good luck!

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
@SHU Undergrad 5:

It depends on the program. Personally I don't ascribe any meaning to a "W", because it is by definition meaningless in terms of academic merit. There is no GPA associated with a W.

Prerequisites may be repeated for our program up to 15 credit hours with the highest grade counting. Programs vary so you'll want to review their website for policy direction.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
Hello Josh,
For those who are re-applying, there is a question on how we strengthened our application. Can I give a dry list of specific things that changed since the last application cycle? Or do you expect us to write an essay on it?
 
@easb:

The field for reapplicants is open, so you can, in theory, input whatever text you'd like.

I would recommend a more narrative style, particularly if you are aware of the potential problems with your application last year. So instead of simply saying:

I have improved my application by:
1. Doing more observation
2. Working in a rehab center
3. Eating my vegetables and brushing my teeth three times daily
4. Repeating coursework

I'd rather see a narrative form addressing what issues there were roadblocks and how you've overcome them.

So that would go something like this:

After applying to DPT programs last year, I reflected on my experiences and the areas in which I could improve. During the intervening months I've taken significant steps to improve my preparation for a high-quality PT program. These include....

Faculty are going to be interested in some reflection on your strengths and areas to improve, and want to see a strong relationship between the improvement areas and what you've done.

Good luck!

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
Hi Josh:)

Thank you so much for doing this for us! I have two questions if you don't mind.

My first question is how much do PT schools care whether you took your pre-reqs at a university or a community college? I just graduated from UCLA with a major in Psychology and just recently decided I wanted to do PT and so I haven't taken much science classes. I can't afford post-bac programs so my only option was taking classes at a CC but I've heard that it makes you less competitive regardless of how well you do. Do you think taking courses at a CC would really hurt me and suggest I just save up for a post-bac program or do you think I'll be fine?

My second question involves pre-req classes I've already taken. I took a statistics class at a community college in which i received an A as well as at UCLA in which I received a C. Would PT schools most likely accept the higher grade, the grade at the accredited university, or would they average out the two grades?

Once again thanks your help and I look forward to hearing from you!
 
Sleung, all depends on the schools. Call around and ask and you may or may not get some answers.
 
@sleung906:

Thanks for your question.

Some programs prefer prerequisites from 4-year institutions, generally on the theory that the courses are more rigorous. I find that argument unsatisfying. Programs will vary depending on their perspective and policies; your best option is to view their websites carefully. If no preference is indicated, then there is likely not one.

If the UCLA and CC stat courses both meet the requirement, again this varies by program. Some programs take the last grade, average them, or use the highest. IU uses the highest grade for up to 15 credits of prerequisites repeated.

So jdaniels360 is correct -- there are no standard answers as the faculty of each program may view the issue differently. Your best course is to do a thorough study of their websites/materials, and if there is no answer, inquire.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences, IUPUI
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
Should I mention how playing d1 sports held me back and after quitting it allowed me to have a better GPa?
 
SHU, that's no excuse, and I hate to hear that coming from athletes because I know even though what we go through isn't easy, we chose this route and have to do the best with what we have. If you can word what you said in a way that makes it sounds like less of an excuse and provide a more specific, legitimate reason that has some credibility then by all means do so. However, in my opinion, simply stating you didn't have enough time is not good enough. You have to sacrifice things to make time.

Sorry this is still me ranting... And I feel the need to make an example out of this case for all the student athletes out there. As an athlete, you should understand the value of work ethic and sacrifice to do what it takes to get the job done. I've made a million and one sacrifices in my college career, and have put aside what most people would call "the normal college experience" and social life to achieve my goals of becoming a PT in the very near future. So what you miss a ton of class as an athlete, get notes from a friend. So what you don't want to study after practice because you're mentally and physically exhausted, push through the wall! So what you're not playing as much as you'd like, you can't let that effect your attitude outside of your sport. So what, you overslept and missed a few classes because you got back from a road game at 5am and had class at 8am. QUIT MAKING EXCUSES! Guys, the student athlete life is NOT easy! If it was, everyone would be able to be successful at it. I know very few athletes who are currently pursuing a DPT and that will actually make it. Those that will make it have ridiculous, sickening work ethic and are willing to do whatever it takes to make their dream come true.

"if you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful!!!!"

If you're hit with a brick wall, the firSt option is to break that sucker down. If that's not possible then find a way to get around it. It may be the longer path but in the end you'll get to where you want to go. And for you non-athletes, this is all just as relevant. Im sure those of you who have succeeded know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Again though, if you feel you have a legitimate excuse, then by all means explain yourself, but tread carefully!

Have a productive day!

Joe
 
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@SHU undergrad 5:

Thanks for the additional details.

I have seen varsity athletes compete for positions in the IU DPT program and be successful. We've seen athletes join the Dietetic Internship program, which is rather competitive (only 16 spots/year), even while carrying 20+ hours in their sport and 15-16 credit hours a term.

I think you can turn your athletic experience into a positive by reflecting on your decision to leave the sport and focus on academics. It seems like you recognized a problem, made a decision that may have been difficult for you (and the expectations of others), and moved forward.

So it's relevant to your academic performance, but use it as a learning moment not as a rationale for struggle.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabiltation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
Thanks Josh, that's basically what i wanted to say, i just had to get on my soapbox for a minute! :)
 
IndianaDPT said:
@SHU undergrad 5:

Thanks for the additional details.

I have seen varsity athletes compete for positions in the IU DPT program and be successful. We've seen athletes join the Dietetic Internship program, which is rather competitive (only 16 spots/year), even while carrying 20+ hours in their sport and 15-16 credit hours a term.

I think you can turn your athletic experience into a positive by reflecting on your decision to leave the sport and focus on academics. It seems like you recognized a problem, made a decision that may have been difficult for you (and the expectations of others), and moved forward.

So it's relevant to your academic performance, but use it as a learning moment not as a rationale for struggle.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabiltation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
Click to expand...

Thanks for the guidance Josh!
 
Happy to help, SHU undergrad 5. You'll find a place that you feel comfortable with and is happy to accept you. Casting a broad net and ensuring you meet all requirements and apply early for rolling admit programs is always recommended.

Best,

Josh Morrison
 
I am retaking my stats class and there is a class offered online. I was hoping to do online so I wouldn't have to shift around my current work schedule as much. But are online classes frowned upon when applying for PT school? Thank you!
 
@ashley25:

Other posters have commented here that online courses are not preferred, for either reasons of expected rigor or due to program policy. Policies of programs vary so I suggest you view each of your designation's websites carefully and if the answer is not there, inquire politely. If there is no policy listed, then it's fairly safe to assume that no particular method of instruction is preferred.

Indiana University has no policy on accepting online courses. Since "online" is such a broad label, we cannot ascribe much meaning to it. In addition I think online courses are going to become more acceptable with time, given constraints on physical facilities on many campuses.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabiltation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
Hello Josh,

I had a question about my GRE:

Hello everyone!

I am looking for advice on my GRE situation. I took it the first time and had no time to study and scored low about 141/142 and 3.5 on the writing. I want to do well on the test but I am schedule to take it August 24th and have not had a chance to study due to my summer course load, observation hours, and work. Should I still take it? Or change the date to the end of September? Some of my programs application deadlines are October 1, so they need the GRE early. Should I send my old scores? And then retake it? I am so stuck!

Thanks for the help :)
 
@ptlover:

Thanks for your note. Most programs will not update GRE scores if received after the application deadline, for fairness reasons. It looks like your score is below the average of about 150, and the AW score most programs would like to see at 4 or better, I imagine.

I suggest retaking it in August, but you have to spend some time on it. Focus on the areas that your designated programs suggest or use. For instance, Indiana University only uses the Verbal GRE score. We do not consider Quantitative or AW.

I know you are busy with other items. But preparation takes some effort. Use the GRE PowerPrep software and use it in between your summer courses and work. I know it's a sacrifice but it's necessary in order to improve your profile, particularly if your cumulative and/or math/science GPA is not otherwise competitive.

Best,

Josh Morrison
Director, Student Enrollment Services
IU School of Health & Rehabiltation Sciences
www.shrs.iupui.edu
[email protected]
 
Hi Josh,

I am going to have 2 PT's to write a letter of recommendation for me. 1 has confirmed that she will do so. Now, my question is, does it matter that the PT's are from the same hospital? The confirmed PT works in the outpatient but the 2nd works in inpatient acute. Would it look better on the application if I had 2 PT's from different hospitals/centers?

Last question... What is constitutes a good LOR? Is it one that highlights strengths, commitment/dedication, and capability of being a PT?

Thanks a lot,
dave
 
Hi Josh,

This is truly wonderful that you are taking the time to answer prospective students questions. Thanks so much for making yourself available. I have a few questions regarding my situation. I am a non-traditional student with a background in the arts, and have poured myself fully into a pursuit of a career and education in physical therapy. It has been a daunting task working full time, studying and volunteering, but I must say that this endeavor has only strengthened my grounding, commitment, and interest in the field.
I initially thought that alternative medicine was what I wanted to pursue, as I have consistently had a practice in yoga, tai chi, and meditation, having recognized great benefits from these things. However, after a short month of taking classes at a Chinese medical college in San Francisco, I realized that what they were teaching was a bit too "out there", leaving me wanting an evidence based approach to understanding the body and health care. Needless to say, I withdrew from this program quickly and began to explore physical therapy. I have thrived in my science classes since, and my volunteer experiences have given me a true desire to be in this field. What I am wondering is whether this quick withdrawal from the acupuncture program will look bad on my transcript? Will this cause me to appear indecisive? How can I address this, but not give it too much weight in my application. What draws me to healthcare in the first place is a holistic outlook of the human body and experience, and I would really love to have an integrative practice down the line.

I have about 250 hours of volunteer work since, a new job as a rehab aide in an inpatient hospital, and all the required prereqs under my belt, with a good GPA. I would hate for that to detract from my application.

I also wonder about my recent GRE scores. I scored a 165v, 4.5aw, but a less than optimal 148q. I plan to retake in a month, but I wonder if the high verbal scores might serve to offset the lowish quantitative score?

Any thoughts are welcome!

J
 
Do you have any advice for interviews? What questions do you typically ask, what are you looking for, etc.
 
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