Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition

[Volha]

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Someone you know in real life who is at mayo, IIRC, has already told you not to mention your kids in your personal statement. I agree. What more do you want us to say.

Some experiences with family members going through some struggles with chronic illnesses piqued your interest in medicine.

You've tested this interest in medicine through shadowing and working in labs and you have decided to pursue medicine as a career and see yourself working in laboratory research and patient care.

That's a perfectly reasonable start on a personal statment without getting into details about the exact relationship between you and these "family members".

And yes, my nephew was hospitalized as a little guy. He did beautifully, played a wind instrument in marching band and has done some intense hikes in the back country of Yellowstone, etc as a teen. It can get better.

Ok, thank you for your opinion. One very last question. I don't know if you have experience reading MD/PhD statements or any experience in this area. Do people write in their personal statements only about why they want to be a doctor OR they write why they want to be a medical scientist? I plan to apply both MD only and MD/Phd programs, therefore do you think it will be more resonable to talk only about my inspiration being a doctor but not doctor scientist or I need to talk about both of them? Did you read any succesful personal statements of such applicants? Did they write about why they want to be a doctor OR they also mention about scientist as well?

 

[LizzyM]

Despite all these microscopic efforts by medical school adcoms, why are most doctors that do graduate egotist and very arrogant. In addition to being snobbish, mean, lacking in empathy and <add your favorite adjective to describe someone you hate>?

I can only take responsibility for the graduates of my school who first matriculated in or after 2001.

That said, my experiences with physicians as health care providers have not mirrored yours.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,

Have you ever had someone cry at the interview when discussing why medicine? I was wondering because a good friend of mine got very emotional while discussing HIS reasons for going into medicine. I told him that he needs to find a way to express his feelings on the subject without losing bearing. I can't see how that would be a positive interview experience. Especially for applying into med school, where you will have to tell bad news to patients on a regular basis.

I don't recall anyone actually crying. I have seen some rather emotionally fragile applicants but usually the reason for the near-tears has been a recollection of an emotionally painful experience.

If it has been a year or more, one is expected to "have it together" at the interview. There was a time when I found out after the interview that the candiate had buried a young family member just a week earlier (the motivation for medicine included the illness and death of an older family member) but learning about this other loss changed my perspective.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Despite all these microscopic efforts by medical school adcoms, why are most doctors that do graduate egotist and very arrogant. In addition to being snobbish, mean, lacking in empathy and <add your favorite adjective to describe someone you hate>?

I think this is an urban legend fed by people who rarely interact with doctors, people who are overly sensitive, and people who feel they are entitled to full accommodation by everyone around them.

Every doctor I know is a person (shocker, right?) But most care very much about what they do and for their patients. Everyone has flaws. I suspect I would seem very arrogant to some entitled whiney ass and very empathetic and caring to someone not so. Interactions usually go in two directions.

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[us1]

Is it true that med schools add extra points to gpa of applicants that went to top tier schools?
Also are med schools aware of the academic rigor of science classes at top tier schools?

 

[LizzyM]

Something that occurred to me from another thread - when people are given interviews because other people declined interview offers, and they wouldn't have gotten an interview had everyone offered an interview accepted it, do you have any ballpark estimate as to how often these people are accepted? I wonder about this due to the general sentiment that declining an interview to a school you won't go to is benefiting someone else by letting them get an interview.

I have no idea if this happens or how often it happens so I really can't comment on what proportion of those lucky people get admitted.

How does a school with a very high average GPA look at applicants with solid (like 3.7+) GPAs that are still well below the school's very high average?

Like this:

average
applicant

That is, is being way up there really important, or do diminishing returns come into play even if a school has a mean GPA of 3.85+?

Number ****** like high numbers.

Just how bad is more than a couple W's (really wish I went to one of those schools that didn't report them...)?



Thanks for doing this again.

What do those Ws say about you? That you can't complete what you start? That you can't handle a heavy load? That you drop hard classes to protect your gpa? That you don't think ahead when registering for classes and end up in a classes that don't suit you? That you had a catastrophic injury that required dropping all your classes?

Med school requires a lock-step march through the curriculum and there really isn't much chance to drop a course and retake it later. I think that some adcoms worry that someone who drops often will not be a good fit with a med school curriculum.

 

[JFK90787]

I think this is an urban legend fed by people who rarely interact with doctors, people who are overly sensitive, and people who feel they are entitled to full accommodation by everyone around them.

Every doctor I know is a person (shocker, right?) But most care very much about what they do and for their patients. Everyone has flaws. I suspect I would seem very arrogant to some entitled whiney ass and very empathetic and caring to someone not so. Interactions usually go in two directions.

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The only *slightly* arrogant doctors I have ever met were surgeons. One memory that sticks out was when I was shadowing an ortho surgeon, and he introduced me to his residents. Our 10 second conversation went like this:

Resident 1: "So JFK90787 you wanna be an ortho surgeon?"
Me: "I don't know what I want to be, I am just trying to shadow different things right now"
Resident 1: "Well if you wanna get into ortho, you gotta be the best of the best" (I later looked him up online and found that he graduated from George Washington)
Resident 2: "We do work, that's why we get paid bro"
*choreographed high-fives between resident 1 and 2*
Me:

edit: But I am sure they are both very good doctors and they had much better demeanor for their patients. This was just behind-the-scenes stuff

 

[SpecterGT260]

The only *slightly* arrogant doctors I have ever met were surgeons. One memory that sticks out was when I was shadowing an ortho surgeon, and he introduced me to his residents. Our 10 second conversation went like this:

Resident 1: "So JFK90787 you wanna be an ortho surgeon?"
Me: "I don't know what I want to be, I am just trying to shadow different things right now"
Resident 1: "Well if you wanna get into ortho, you gotta be the best of the best" (I later looked him up online and found that he graduated from George Washington)
Resident 2: "We do work, that's why we get paid bro"
*choreographed high-fives between resident 1 and 2*
Me:

Yea ortho is a boys club. The complaints, however are usually lodged against PCPs for not catering to some nonsense a patient thinks he or she needs.

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[LizzyM]

Ok, thank you for your opinion. One very last question. I don't know if you have experience reading MD/PhD statements or any experience in this area. Do people write in their personal statements only about why they want to be a doctor OR they write why they want to be a medical scientist? I plan to apply both MD only and MD/Phd programs, therefore do you think it will be more resonable to talk only about my inspiration being a doctor but not doctor scientist or I need to talk about both of them? Did you read any succesful personal statements of such applicants? Did they write about why they want to be a doctor OR they also mention about scientist as well?

In the past couple years, I've only seen the applications of the unsuccessful MD/PhD applicants who are then considered for MD-only.

I think that it is hard to write a Personal Statement (PS) that will resonate with both MD-only and MD/PhD committees. One will be asking "why isn't this one applying to a PhD program if they are so interested in research" or the other will be asking"why is this person applying to our program if they aren't focusing their PS on a career as a physician-scientist".

If you have what it takes to be admitted to a top-flight PhD program and you have the personality and temperment to deal with the sick and their families, then make your application playing up why you want to be a physician-scientist. Use the EC section to describe your research experiences and your experiences that demonstrate altruism and experiences with health care (shadowing/volunteering/employment). Direct your applications to schools that train physician-scientists including schools that have a thesis requirement or thesis option for MD-only students.

 

[LizzyM]

Is it true that med schools add extra points to gpa of applicants that went to top tier schools?
Also are med schools aware of the academic rigor of science classes at top tier schools?

Schools are encouraged to make a holistic assessment of an application. One of the factors to consider is the rigor of the applicant's prior courswork (what has been taken, and where it was taken).

Yes, we have senior med students who are well aware of various schools' current rigor on our adcom.

 

[us1]

In your opinion what is the minimum gpa one should apply to med school?





Thank you so much for answering my questions so far.

 

[LizzyM]

In your opinion what is the minimum gpa one should apply to med school?





Thank you so much for answering my questions so far.

https://www.aamc.org/download/161700/data/table21.pdf

Go to https://www.aamc.org/download/161700/data/table21.pdf and find the average gpa for successful applicants from your state. Multiply the standard deviation by 2 and subtract from the mean. That, in my opinion, is the absolute minimum. Far better to be not less than one standard deviation below the mean and, if you are, your MCAT should be at least one standard deviation above the mean for your state.

You could use the similar tables to compare your stats to specific schools or for your race/sex.

 

[Jas1360]

Did you have a good break? Is it fun to answer our questions, annoying, or both?

 

[487806]

In before the deadline! Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions LizzyM. It helps a lot and serves as a great aid when we apply to med school. 👍

 

[PreMedJock]

Are tattoos viewed negatively in the medical field? (More so in the admissions process)

 

[LizzyM]

Did you have a good break? Is it fun to answer our questions, annoying, or both?

I am having a good break. I am enjoying answering questions and I've still had time for some of my volunteer work, some fun with family, some time for myself, and some of my adcom assignments.

Some of these questions are fun, some of the thread hijacks are annoying and the speculation about my location is hilarious... and contrary to the terms of service so those who indulge should knock it off...

but still, what gives me away, my accent? 😀

 

[LearningToWok]

I was asked this question today by a fellow classmate, "If i had a D in a course, but it didn't count towards my GPA since it was an extra course (labelled extra course on transcript-Honors Computer Science), would that be added to my cGPA on the AAMC?" I told him that there is probably a check mark for no credit received so I'm guessing that it wouldn't count, but it would still show up as a red flag for admissions. Does anyone know if my answer was right/wrong, would this *extra course* for no credit drop his GPA even though it doesn't add to his schools GPA (which is ~3.9)?

 

[LizzyM]

Are tattoos viewed negatively in the medical field? (More so in the admissions process)

Almost all applicants interview in business dress. Almost all tatoos are covered by business dress. Therefore it is rare to see a applicant with a tattoo at an interview.

The tattoos I can think of that aren't covered by business dress are the tear drop in the corner of the eye and the letter tattoos on the fingers. (eg, LOVE and HATE). I associate these often crude black ink tattoos with prison and would not think highly of someone in medicine or in the application process with such marks.

http://www.tattoopins.com/face-tattoos-prison/

Did you have something else in mind?

 

[PreMedJock]

That actually hit the nail on the head.

I am considering getting my last name down my right arm, which would be covered by business dress.

Thank you for your response, and a speedy one at that.

 

[SpecterGT260]

That actually hit the nail on the head.

I am considering getting my last name down my right arm, which would be covered by business dress.

Thank you for your response, and a speedy one at that.

Another thing to consider is how this looks in scrubs. Could it impact the way attendings see you and therefore impact your letters?

Thoughts, Lizzy?

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[Geebeejay]

The only *slightly* arrogant doctors I have ever met were surgeons. One memory that sticks out was when I was shadowing an ortho surgeon, and he introduced me to his residents. Our 10 second conversation went like this:

Resident 1: "So JFK90787 you wanna be an ortho surgeon?"
Me: "I don't know what I want to be, I am just trying to shadow different things right now"
Resident 1: "Well if you wanna get into ortho, you gotta be the best of the best" (I later looked him up online and found that he graduated from George Washington)
Resident 2: "We do work, that's why we get paid bro"
*choreographed high-fives between resident 1 and 2*
Me:

edit: But I am sure they are both very good doctors and they had much better demeanor for their patients. This was just behind-the-scenes stuff

Heh, there's a difference between arrogant and egotystical behavior, and just having fun, cracking jokes, palling around with the team behind the scenes.

 

[LizzyM]

I was asked this question today by a fellow classmate, "If i had a D in a course, but it didn't count towards my GPA since it was an extra course (labelled extra course on transcript-Honors Computer Science), would that be added to my cGPA on the AAMC?" I told him that there is probably a check mark for no credit received so I'm guessing that it wouldn't count, but it would still show up as a red flag for admissions. Does anyone know if my answer was right/wrong, would this *extra course* for no credit drop his GPA even though it doesn't add to his schools GPA (which is ~3.9)?

At most schools, most courses are worth 3 or 4 credits. An A is worth 4 points times the number of credits for the class. A B is worth 3 points and so forth. The number of points earned is divided by the number of credits attempted to determine the gpa. A "D" in a zero credit course adds nothing to the numerator (grade points times zero credits equals zero) and adds nothing to the denominator (zero credits). Even if it is an "extra class", a D in a 3 credit class will add 3 points to the numerator and 3 points to the denominator in a calculation of gpa.

 

[LizzyM]

Another thing to consider is how this looks in scrubs. Could it impact the way attendings see you and therefore impact your letters?

Thoughts, Lizzy?

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do it in a color that is lighter than your skin tone. My sister-in-law has an inspirational word tattooed in white on her wrist. It is hard to see unless it is pointed out but she knows that it's there. She works in scrubs.

 

[SpecterGT260]

do it in a color that is lighter than your skin tone. My sister-in-law has an inspirational word tattooed in white on her wrist. It is hard to see unless it is pointed out but she knows that it's there. She works in scrubs.

So in other words, they are not to be seen 👍

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[PreMedJock]

do it in a color that is lighter than your skin tone. My sister-in-law has an inspirational word tattooed in white on her wrist. It is hard to see unless it is pointed out but she knows that it's there. She works in scrubs.

So in other words, they are not to be seen 👍

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Thank you both for your feedback. Much appreciated.

 

[LizzyM]

My college-student daughter and I went to the Apple Store for a Genius Bar appointment. As We were waiting for our appointment and looking around at the people working there, I said to her,

"How many tattoos do you need to get a job here?"
"Six"
"Can piercings subsitute for 'tats?"
"Yes"
"What about gauges?"
"They're worth six 'tats."

Then it was our turn to meet with a "genius". He was a personable and highly skilled guy who was clean cut and well groomed. He went in the back to get something and I said to my daughter, "he doesn't have any visible tattoos or piercings."

"That", she said with a twinkle, "is what makes him so mysterious."

 

[LearningToWok]

So his GPA wouldn't be affected on AAMC GPA calculation and it wouldn't be RED flagged by admissions? Seems rather odd if that is the case. I know there may have been a reason for such a poor performance, but to me it seems like he found a loop hole to not have his schools GPA lowered. Wouldn't this be something brought up during the interview? (assuming he receives an interview)

 

[Sephiroth]

Med school requires a lock-step march through the curriculum and there really isn't much chance to drop a course and retake it later. I think that some adcoms worry that someone who drops often will not be a good fit with a med school curriculum.

Is that something that would be screened for pre-interview or is it something that could potentially kill an app post-interview?

In the past couple years, I've only seen the applications of the unsuccessful MD/PhD applicants who are then considered for MD-only.

I think that it is hard to write a Personal Statement (PS) that will resonate with both MD-only and MD/PhD committees. One will be asking "why isn't this one applying to a PhD program if they are so interested in research" or the other will be asking"why is this person applying to our program if they aren't focusing their PS on a career as a physician-scientist".

If you have what it takes to be admitted to a top-flight PhD program and you have the personality and temperment to deal with the sick and their families, then make your application playing up why you want to be a physician-scientist. Use the EC section to describe your research experiences and your experiences that demonstrate altruism and experiences with health care (shadowing/volunteering/employment). Direct your applications to schools that train physician-scientists including schools that have a thesis requirement or thesis option for MD-only students.

In whatever possibly very limited exposure to it, how successful have MD/PhD apps that were handed off to MD-only been?


Thanks again.

 

[LizzyM]

So his GPA wouldn't be affected on AAMC GPA calculation and it wouldn't be RED flagged by admissions? Seems rather odd if that is the case. I know there may have been a reason for such a poor performance, but to me it seems like he found a loop hole to not have his schools GPA lowered. Wouldn't this be something brought up during the interview? (assuming he receives an interview)

If it is a zero credit course, it does not not affect gpa. It is unlikely it would even be noticed. If it were noticed, it might raise an eyebrow... "this guy got a D and still manged a 3.xx gpa, ???.... Oh, it was a D in a zero credit course, I guess he didn't make much effort for zero credit."

 

[LizzyM]

Is that something that would be screened for pre-interview or is it something that could potentially kill an app post-interview?

A multitude of Ws should be caught pre-interview. If not, they might be caught during an open file interview and commented on negatively or the applicant might be asked for an explanation. It could also be caught post-interview depending on how a school structures its file review and interview invitation protocols.

In whatever possibly very limited exposure to it, how successful have MD/PhD apps that were handed off to MD-only been?


Thanks again.

Not very successful. They are the last applications to be seen by the MD-Only committee because the MD/PhD committee sits on them until they've chosen the applicants that they wish to interview. Then you look at the application and you have the feeling that this person does not really want an MD-only program and that given the option to go elsewhere for an MSTP, they'll go elsewhere. So, we tend not to give them high priority for interview.

Do not apply MD/PhD because the finanical arrangement is enticing and do not apply for MD/PhD because it looks like an easier way into medical school (fewer applicants taking that route). Apply only if you can't think of anything you'd rather do than spend 60 hours/wk in the lab for the rest of your life with a day a week or 2 months/year devoted to patient care before you can get back to the lab.

 

[gettheleadout]

Am I the only one who's never heard of a zero-credit course? lol


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[PreMedJock]

Am I the only one who's never heard of a zero-credit course? lol


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The only one I know of is a required transition course I took last semester as an entering freshman. Other than that, no.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Am I the only one who's never heard of a zero-credit course? lol


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No... we had courses that could be audited for no credit. But there was also no reported grade.

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[487806]

Am I the only one who's never heard of a zero-credit course? lol


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I didn't. Zero-credit courses sound pointless, but it's good as long as there are no grades involved (pointless since it doesn't affect your gpa)

 

[neuro nephrons]

Would it be a negative to mention another university in your PS (ex: you were given a rare opportunity at a top notch university to take a class that was sort of an introduction to medicine" that gave you amazing opportunites that started your passion for medicine?

 

[LearningToWok]

He told me it was a 4 credit course, he changed majors and it wasn't required for graduation. Since it wasn't required it didn't count towards his GPA, so the transcript shows CS -XXX- Intro Comp Sci-Honors I D (4.00) EXTRA COURSE. So it just shows nothing for the points earned. Usually it looks like this CS -XXX- Intro Comp Sci-Honors I A 4.00 16.00. That semester's GPA was 4.0 overall.

 

[Bbutterfly]

I just spent quite a bit reading over this thread to make sure that my questions were not asked and answered before I post, and it looks like I might be late??? Might have missed the post mentioning the deadline but if not here are my questions

1. My school has just put together a pre-health committee, and people applying this coming cycle ( as me) will be the first for which they write the letters. For that reason and the fact that they are still organizing the committee ( that is trying to define the roles and how to help the students, we as students often do suggestions in that regard), I feel like a letter by them will not be the best evaluation of who I am. However, I have some science professors, several, that I feel will write a better description of who I am , what makes me a good candidate etc.... Could I try to obtain letters from 2 of them in addition to that of the committee? Or should it be one or the other? I have been told that if your school has a pre-Heath committee, they should be the one to write a letter, not professors. Is that accurate?

2. I am registered for only 8 credit hours this semester, because I want to take time to further my volunteering activities, start shadowing as well as prepare for the MCAT. Since I decided to go back to school and apply for medical school, I have taken about 30 to 32 credit hours per year( last semester was 17) while holding a job ( seven years as CNA/ Patient Care Tech/ Certified Medication Technician, working mostly in hospital settings), and with a family to take care of. Will it be looked down upon, the fact that I am taking only 8 credit hours this semester? I may also be involved in a Biostats research lab of a medical school during the semester for about 16 hours a week and will sill be working

If that helps I am a Nontrad student

Thank you for your answers if you have time

 

[noncon]

A University of California pre-med advisor wrote to one of our students and told her a few medical schools have recently started insisting on Calculus-based Physics instead of Algebra-based Physics. Apparently this is new. Do you (LizzyM) or anyone else know anything about this development?

 

[Jas1360]

He told me it was a 4 credit course, he changed majors and it wasn't required for graduation. Since it wasn't required it didn't count towards his GPA, so the transcript shows CS -XXX- Intro Comp Sci-Honors I D (4.00) EXTRA COURSE. So it just shows nothing for the points earned. Usually it looks like this CS -XXX- Intro Comp Sci-Honors I A 4.00 16.00. That semester's GPA was 4.0 overall.

I'm fairly sure that it will be counted in his GPA even though the school doesn't use it for their calculation.

I opted to retake a SPA class that I already had credit for at a different university because I needed to take the next level and it had been a long time ago. Anyways, my transcript shows the class, the grade, and credit hours but it is changed by the current school to 0.0 GPA hours because I already had credit. Anyways, AMCAS will still factor the course into their calculation because my transcript lists the grade and credit hours.

 

[Xenops]

Hello LizzyM! Thanks for answering questions, it has been very helpful. I have a couple of my own:

1. You indicated that LOR's from doctors shadowed and volunteer coordinators are not helpful, but what about religious leaders or pastors that organized missions trips?

2. If I have more than 4 years of school/credits, what are the extra years considered? Is there room on the AMCAS to put additional years that are not post-bacc?

Thanks,

Xenops

 

[LizzyM]

He told me it was a 4 credit course, he changed majors and it wasn't required for graduation. Since it wasn't required it didn't count towards his GPA, so the transcript shows CS -XXX- Intro Comp Sci-Honors I D (4.00) EXTRA COURSE. So it just shows nothing for the points earned. Usually it looks like this CS -XXX- Intro Comp Sci-Honors I A 4.00 16.00. That semester's GPA was 4.0 overall.

I would think that AMCAS has the information it needs to count that as 4 credits at 1 point (D) per credit. That's going to sting a bit gpa-wise.

 

[LizzyM]

Question can be posted until Noon Pacific Standard Time (in about 90 minutes). I will get to them, and those I haven't answered yet, later today.

Hope you have some fun planned to ring in the new year!

 

[noncon]

I think this is an urban legend fed by people who rarely interact with doctors, people who are overly sensitive, and people who feel they are entitled to full accommodation by everyone around them.

Or maybe this is a sentiment frequently expressed by people who are not white? Most of our students are Black, Hispanic or some other minority and this sentiment has often been expressed by our students. A white gay student told us how his dentist, one Ian Miller from Calgary in Alberta, Canada, made anti-gay comments to his nurse while performing a root canal after learning his patient was gay. This dentist was deliberately insulting to his own patient. Or making sure the patient won't return to him, in which case he was deliberately pushing away a gay patient. Throughout the root canal, the student had to put up with anti-gay comments from his own dentist of several years.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Or maybe this is a sentiment frequently expressed by people who are not white? Most of our students are Black, Hispanic or some other minority and this sentiment has often been expressed by our students. A white gay student told us how his dentist, one SpecterGT from Calgary in Alberta, Canada, made anti-gay comments to his nurse while performing a root canal after learning his patient was gay. This dentist was deliberately insulting to his own patient. Or making sure the patient won't return to him, in which case he was deliberately pushing away a gay patient. Throughout the root canal, the student had to put up with anti-gay comments from his own dentist of several years.

Not really what we were talking about. I hear most of the complaints from white lower-middle class individuals. Those who tend to make enough to have solid health insurance but little enough that they dont take care of themselves (or whatever causes the correlation between lower SES and health issues). I just have seen plenty of these people act like the doctor is there to serve them and only them as if there aren't any other patients to be seen and as if the patient's webMD searches and arbitrary demands are in any way appropriate.

Our students? As a pre-med admitting up front to a selection bias in your sample I am curious how you are making this connection.

 

[AOK123]

Hey LizzyM, thanks for taking the time to do this Q&A, much appreciated 🙂

LizzyM,

Do the top schools expect all of their medical students to be significantly involved in research in their future careers? If so, then why wouldn't they expect their medical students to get MD-PhDs if they want them all to do major research? For me, I feel like getting an MD means that I can be involved in significant patient care and then do research if time permits...

And if these schools are looking for "future leaders in medicine", can't I become a doctor who leads by providing quality patient care instead of only doing research most of the time?

If these schools want academic physicians, I feel like I can become one through patient care and teaching students through association with a medical school.

 

[Dadcore]

I've been lurking these forums for a few months and the discovery of this great thread prompted me to finally create an account and post.

Reading through all of your informative,prompt and accurate (not to mention witty) responses to the questions posed in this thread has been so much more helpful than spending time with the somewhat lackluster pre-med advisor at my institution. I'd like to thank you for taking your time to assist us!

Now for my questions:

1. I feel much closer to the post-doc that I work under in my research lab than my PI, and that as a result my post-doc could potentially write a better LOR. Is it still recommended to ask my PI for the letter, and if so, how would I go about getting to know my PI better in order to instill a sense of familiarity that would otherwise be incommunicable through the LOR?

2. How do adcoms feel about LOR's from professors NOT in the natural sciences, i.e. math or physics professors?

3. To the adcoms, is there any perceived difference in shadowing a practitioner in a general hospital (e.g. a University-affiliated one) compared to a private practice (not sure if this counts as a hypothetical or not)?

I know many of these answers can be found through the search function but I would prefer a definitive answer from someone knowledgeable.


Oh, and happy 2013

 

[Sephiroth]

Do not apply MD/PhD because the finanical arrangement is enticing and do not apply for MD/PhD because it looks like an easier way into medical school (fewer applicants taking that route). Apply only if you can't think of anything you'd rather do than spend 60 hours/wk in the lab for the rest of your life with a day a week or 2 months/year devoted to patient care before you can get back to the lab.

oh, of course. That'd be stupid - the sacrificed years of attending salary would most likely outweigh the funding, and each program has very few spots - I'm just wondering on a back-up level.


Thanks.

 

[noncon]

In countries like China, India and elsewhere, there are programs where MILLIONS of students apply for a few hundred seats. At US MD schools, about 50% of students who apply are accepted. Then you have osteopathic medical schools which probably accept even more. More students get accepted the next time they apply. And many choose the Caribbean path. The result appears to be that almost everyone who seeks medicine eventually gets accepted. Now medical school admission is big business with consultants, test prep companies, etc. It is in the interest of these companies to exaggerate the difficulty of admissions and make them more complicated than they are. It is also in the interest of students to exaggerate the difficulty of the admission process in order to dissuade other students from applying so there is less competition. My question to you is - is the medical school admission process really that complicated? Is complicating something simple making us all neurotic?

 

[SpecterGT260]

In countries like China, India and elsewhere, there are programs where MILLIONS of students apply for a few hundred seats. At US MD schools, about 50% of students who apply are accepted. Then you have osteopathic medical schools which probably accept even more. More students get accepted the next time they apply. And many choose the Caribbean path. The result appears to be that almost everyone who seeks medicine eventually gets accepted. Now medical school admission is big business with consultants, test prep companies, etc. It is in the interest of these companies to exaggerate the difficulty of admissions and make them more complicated than they are. It is also in the interest of students to dissuade other students from applying so there is less competition. My question to you is - is the medical school admission process really that complicated? Isn't complicating something simple making us all neurotic?

China? You sure about that?

You just named a few countries associated with academics and flew with it...... china does not have med school competition. Their med school is a consolation prize for not getting accepted into COLLEGE (with grad school understood to be a part of that)

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[Geebeejay]

Not really what we were talking about. I hear most of the complaints from white lower-middle class individuals. Those who tend to make enough to have solid health insurance but little enough that they dont take care of themselves (or whatever causes the correlation between lower SES and health issues). I just have seen plenty of these people act like the doctor is there to serve them and only them as if there aren't any other patients to be seen and as if the patient's webMD searches and arbitrary demands are in any way appropriate.

Our students? As a pre-med admitting up front to a selection bias in your sample I am curious how you are making this connection.

+1. This is pretty much the case. This is a reason (of many) I prefer an urban hospital setting.