Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition

[LizzyM]

In what may become an end of the year tradition (if you do it twice, is it tradition?), here's the 2012 edition of Ask LizzyM Anything.

However, I will not answer :
•"what are my chances?" (there's a separate place for that)
•"will you read my personal statement?"
•"where do you work?"
or hypothetical questions

Keep in mind that there may be 100 different ways to do med school admissions and I'm familiar with only one and at a top tier private school so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I will be answering over the next 10 days or so but I'll also be baking, cooking, singing, sleeping, feasting, and drinking so it may take a few hours to get to you. Thank you for your patience.

And don't forget to check out LizzyM's Elf on the Shelf, another SDN tradition.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=877807

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[La Presse]

Hell Yeah! I love you LizzyM.

My question is this:

How is extensive research and teaching experience of value when the admissions committee is evaluating your application? Would it supplement portions of an application that would normally be deemed unsatisfactory?

O...and first comment

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What is the secret to immortality.










Srs.


But yah, how should one interview for medical school? Should you try to be extremely professional and formal? Or should you be human, make appropriate jokes, try to make things as close to normal human discussion as possible?

Also whats your opinion on applying to more than 20 schools (upwards of 40)? Does it work for getting applicants who are not significantly competitive in or is it just a major waste of time?

Oh, and finally if an applicant has a P ( Pass) for a senior year lower level elective that was taken only for the sake of making them full time, will that be counted against them? Or will you just ignore that?

 

[colorfulfishies]

In the scenario that someone is a reapplicant, is their application looked at differently by adcoms? I know there definitely needs to be improvement between cycles, but is there separate screening or different standards?
Thanks a lot!

 

[sliceofbread136]

Can you tell the story of the worst interviewer you have ever interviewed?

 

[SilentSoldier]

In the scenario that someone is a reapplicant, is their application looked at differently by adcoms? I know there definitely needs to be improvement between cycles, but is there separate screening or different standards?
Thanks a lot!

I guess to add to this question, say you are reapplying to the same school, do they look at the past file in order to make that distinction on what you've done since or is it basically a clean slate? I would assume that its school dependent, no?

 

[weezynation]

Thanks so much for doing this again LizzyM. One question...I assume this may be viewed differently at different schools, but how much do SMP grade updates mean at this point in the application season if one does very well in those medical school classes? I am curious considering it is getting later in the cycle and I'm sure competition is higher. Thanks for your help.

 

[Josh7]

Hey LizzyM, thanks for doing this!

My question is if doing a summer research program at a university that has a medical school will help getting into that medical school in the future?

Also, do second and third author publications look good or is it pretty much equivalent to research experience?

Thanks again!

 

[Syialb]

Hi LizzyM.

The answer to my question may vary school to school, but here it is:

Once you're at the interview stage, do med schools use just the interview to make their decision or do they go back and look at the entire application, including GPA, MCAT, etc. ?

I've heard that once you get an interview, it's your acceptance to lose. But I can't help but think GPA/MCAT can still hold you back. Thanks in advance!

 

[aspiring20]

In what may become an end of the year tradition (if you do it twice, is it tradition?), here's the 2012 edition of Ask LizzyM Anything.

However, I will not answer :
•"what are my chances?" (there's a separate place for that)
•"will you read my personal statement?"
•"where do you work?"

Keep in mind that there may be 100 different ways to do med school admissions and I'm familiar with only one and at a top tier private school so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I will be answering over the next 10 days or so but I'll also be baking, cooking, singing, sleeping, feasting, and drinking so it may take a few hours to get to you. Thank you for your patience.

And don't forget to check out LizzyM's Elf on the Shelf, another SDN tradition.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=877807

sorry if it sounds like a broken record from me, but i have a question regarding IA.

i understand that universities have different disciplinary policies. some will give out warnings for violations BEFORE giving out an "IA", while others allow students to get rid of their IA right after graduation, even for serious violations like academic issues. however, my school does neither, and warnings for first-time violations are counted as disciplinary/institutional actions.

because of this, someone with a rather serious academic violation can safely not report the incident, while i have no choice but to disclose mine. i will truthfully report the incident (and i do take responsibility for my actions), but i wonder if med schools know that different undergrads have vastly different disciplinary policies and will act accordingly.

thanks and happy holidays.

 

[sunflower18]

Thanks so much for doing this again, LizzyM!!

If all of one's summer research experiences are at one's home university or local medical school, does this look less good than if that applicant had gone to various institutions across the country to do summer research?

Also, is it seen as a major negative if an applicant doesn't complete original research for his/her senior thesis?

Thanks again!

 

[TheShaker]

Yay it's happening!!

About what proportion of the people you interview express a desire to go into academic medicine and spend a substantial amount of their time on research (50:50 ratio)? I recently interviewed at two institutions that I thought were research oriented but their student body turned out to be mostly service oriented rather than research oriented. How does this affect an applicant such as myself in terms of fit with their school and the interviewer's impression of me?

 

[Member 331305]

What is the difference between an ok/satisfactory interviewee and a phenomenal/memorable interviewee? Is it personality? The formation of a personal connection? Is it numbers?

 

[LizzyM]

Hell Yeah! I love you LizzyM.

My question is this:

How is extensive research and teaching experience of value when the admissions committee is evaluating your application? Would it supplement portions of an application that would normally be deemed unsatisfactory?

O...and first comment

It is hard to get an interview at my school if any portion of your application is unsatisfactory. That said, at a research-intensive school, having extensive research experience prior to applying is a plus. Given that many schools expect students to "watch one, do one, teach one", having teaching experience is helpful, too. (AMCAS even has a separate tag in the experience section for "teaching/tutoring".)

 

[LizzyM]

But yah, how should one interview for medical school? Should you try to be extremely professional and formal? Or should you be human, make appropriate jokes, try to make things as close to normal human discussion as possible?

As the Genie said to Alladin, "Be yourself". It also helps to be able to read the interviewer and adjust according to the interviewer's signals. You'll do the same as a doctor where some patients will be happy that you distract them with friendly banter as you do something painful to them while another patient, perhaps anxious and tears, will need a different approach.

Also whats your opinion on applying to more than 20 schools (upwards of 40)? Does it work for getting applicants who are not significantly competitive in or is it just a major waste of time?

I developed the LizzyM score to help people target their applications to the schools that, in terms of stats, are a good fit for them. I do not believe that anyone needs to apply to more than 20 schools if they choose wisely.

Oh, and finally if an applicant has a P ( Pass) for a senior year lower level elective that was taken only for the sake of making them full time, will that be counted against them? Or will you just ignore that?

A Pass is mostly going to be ignored.

 

[LizzyM]

In the scenario that someone is a reapplicant, is their application looked at differently by adcoms? I know there definitely needs to be improvement between cycles, but is there separate screening or different standards?
Thanks a lot!

Sometimes the fact that an applicant is a re-applicant is overlooked. In other cases, the application will be looked at closely to see if there has been improvement/up-dates. In terms of gap year activities, re-applicants and other college grads tend to be judged similarly in that regard.

 

[LizzyM]

Can you tell the story of the worst interviewer you have ever interviewed?

That's a supressed memory. Let's not bring it back to the surface.

 

[LizzyM]

I guess to add to this question, say you are reapplying to the same school, do they look at the past file in order to make that distinction on what you've done since or is it basically a clean slate? I would assume that its school dependent, no?

It might be school dependent. On rare occasion, we have pulled the old file and compared while at a meeting discussing a final disposition of an interviewed applicant.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for doing this again LizzyM. One question...I assume this may be viewed differently at different schools, but how much do SMP grade updates mean at this point in the application season if one does very well in those medical school classes? I am curious considering it is getting later in the cycle and I'm sure competition is higher. Thanks for your help.

At my school we don't see many SMP applicants. I do think that a grade up-date may provide evidence that the student has the capacity to do well in a tough classroom situation so it could help a student's case but, as you recognize, you are in competition for a dwindling number of interview slots.

 

[music2doc]

LizzyM, I've never been entirely clear what your role is at your school. I believe you have said you are faculty -- is that right? What is your general area of research/interest? What is your most memorable interview/application?

 

[LizzyM]

Hey LizzyM, thanks for doing this!

My question is if doing a summer research program at a university that has a medical school will help getting into that medical school in the future?

Also, do second and third author publications look good or is it pretty much equivalent to research experience?

Thanks again!

Doing summer research at a university/med school will not give you a leg up at that school in the application process. We treat applicants who did research at our school the same as people who did summer research at other schools.

Second & third publications are good and put those applicants ahead of those who have just done low level tech work or nothing at all.

 

[Claudin]

How many interviews have been given out before December? I know it's different for each school, but do you know a rough estimate? Half? More than half?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM.

The answer to my question may vary school to school, but here it is:

Once you're at the interview stage, do med schools use just the interview to make their decision or do they go back and look at the entire application, including GPA, MCAT, etc. ?

I've heard that once you get an interview, it's your acceptance to lose. But I can't help but think GPA/MCAT can still hold you back. Thanks in advance!

I've answered this before but here goes: It does vary by school. Imagine that people are standing on a huge staircase with those who have the highest stats and the most remarkable experiences at the top stair and downward to the least among those who are interviewed. After the interview, the applicants can keep their place on their original stair, go up a step or two or go down a step or many steps. In most cases, the people with the higest stats are still at the top but some are sent to the bottom step and some people move up or down according to their performance.

 

[Twinnering]

Thanks for doing this LizzyM!

My question is for schools that release their decisions later in the year (like March), are your updates considered a measure of your interest in the school? For instance, if you don't send a letter of interest/update letter are you evaluated as someone who may not be as interested in coming as another candidate when offering an acceptance?

 

[Aluminum]

Please... help me..:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13460027#post13460027

 

[LizzyM]

sorry if it sounds like a broken record from me, but i have a question regarding IA.

i understand that universities have different disciplinary policies. some will give out warnings for violations BEFORE giving out an "IA", while others allow students to get rid of their IA right after graduation, even for serious violations like academic issues. however, my school does neither, and warnings for first-time violations are counted as disciplinary/institutional actions.

because of this, someone with a rather serious academic violation can safely not report the incident, while i have no choice but to disclose mine. i will truthfully report the incident (and i do take responsibility for my actions), but i wonder if med schools know that different undergrads have vastly different disciplinary policies and will act accordingly.

thanks and happy holidays.

I have no idea how those are handled by the subcommittee that deals with that. Even a warning is an institutional action and should be reported. A IA that has been "wiped away" must be reported.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for doing this again, LizzyM!!

If all of one's summer research experiences are at one's home university or local medical school, does this look less good than if that applicant had gone to various institutions across the country to do summer research?

Makes no difference.

Also, is it seen as a major negative if an applicant doesn't complete original research for his/her senior thesis?

Thanks again![/QUOTE]

It is a negative compared with someone who does a thesis with original research. See earlier comment about 2nd & 3rd author publications.

 

[LizzyM]

Yay it's happening!!

About what proportion of the people you interview express a desire to go into academic medicine and spend a substantial amount of their time on research (50:50 ratio)? I recently interviewed at two institutions that I thought were research oriented but their student body turned out to be mostly service oriented rather than research oriented. How does this affect an applicant such as myself in terms of fit with their school and the interviewer's impression of me?

The usual ratio is 20:80 or 80:20. If a school is highly ranked on the US News research list, it is going to applicants who are enthused about research.

 

[sazerac]

What did you dress up as for Halloween this year?

 

[LizzyM]

What is the difference between an ok/satisfactory interviewee and a phenomenal/memorable interviewee? Is it personality? The formation of a personal connection? Is it numbers?

What's the difference between a ok/satisfactory primary care doctor and a phenomenal/memorable one? Is it the personality? The formation of a personal connection? Is it the numbers? ("The numbers" being the number of minutes you wait in the waiting room and the number of minutes you wait in the exam room in a skimpy "coat").

It is a similar situation. You can't always put it into words.

 

[Wipeout416]

Hi, thanks for doing this

How does medical aid to underdeveloped countries sound to AdComs? In the sense of helping a small team of ~5 surgeons for about 15-20 days in these remote locations. Is it a huge plus or a minor positive?

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM, I've never been entirely clear what your role is at your school. I believe you have said you are faculty -- is that right? What is your general area of research/interest? What is your most memorable interview/application?

I've been a faculty member for > 20 years. I did a lot of research in my youth but as happens in most careers, my work now is mostly administration and teaching. I'd rather not mention my area of research as it is a small world out there and I value my privacy.

Most memorable applicant/interview was a former Marine and graduate of the Naval Academy.

 

[iforget2]

About how many semesters of research does an average student who matriculates have? This can include students who have published in journals and those who just cleaned glassware. I'm just curious to know how many semesters of research other students have. Thanks for doing this!

 

[LizzyM]

How many interviews have been given out before December? I know it's different for each school, but do you know a rough estimate? Half? More than half?

It is different for each school. I'd guess that most schools are past the half way mark by December 1.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for doing this LizzyM!

My question is for schools that release their decisions later in the year (like March), are your updates considered a measure of your interest in the school? For instance, if you don't send a letter of interest/update letter are you evaluated as someone who may not be as interested in coming as another candidate when offering an acceptance?

You might ask that school if they accept updates. If yes, then send updates if you are interested in that school. Some do try to protect their yield (not make offers that will be declined) by asking applicants to "show interest" before an offer is made.

 

[Jas1360]

So I am a senior and I have already applied this application cycle. I only have two required classes left to take so I have 5 credit hours of electives available. Does it matter what I take for those electives? One option is a 5 credit hour anatomy class for pre-meds taught by a doctor from the college of medicine who also teaches medical student anatomy. The other option is a 3 credit neuroscience course and 2 credit hours independent research (I already have two semesters of research so I would be continuing in the same lab). The second option would be the remaining courses I need for a Neuroscience minor, which I did not list on my application because the option just became available in August. In addition, the second option would allow me the chance to graduate with Honors in Biology, assuming I keep above a 3.5 GPA.

It seems like the option is up to me because I do not think it would have any effect on my current applications. I'd like to know if my assumption is wrong or if you think one of the options is better than the other. Or should I just take something fun like guitar lessons?

 

[LizzyM]

What did you dress up as for Halloween this year?

No dressing up for me this year... I was working.

 

[mellamocow]

Given that an applicant has great extracurriculars, would taking too many semester hours be looked disfavorably upon since it looks like the applicant is too academic/book focused even though that may not be the case?

How valuable are summer research programs? Would participating in a program such as AMGEN, SURF, etc be regarded more highly than researching with your current lab (I'm assuming just due to the prestige/difficulty of acceptance into such a program)?

Generally speaking, how far ahead of the rest of the class of applicants should one be stat-wise to recieve merit-based scholarships in med school?

Does an excess of presenting at oral conferences and/or poster sessions look bad? For example, if an applicant has about 10 different oral/poster presentations, could this possibly give the impression the applicant is simply trying to boost the resume?

Do adcoms give weight to masters candidates (those who are in the process during application/nterview but are on target for a master's degree by graduation)?

Does a heavy research oriented resume/app bear any weight on a regular MD application? If it does not bear substantial weight, then would that applicant be disfavored due to a lack of time for volunteering?

When it comes to volunteering clinically, how important is quality over quantity? I would imagine a few months would give one a decent understanding of what goes on in a particular clinical environment. Wouldn't it be better to volunteer in 2 or 3 different clinical settings to get a broader experience?

Thanks a TON!

 

[bmoredoc]

Thanks for doing this, it's a great resource for everyone. I have 2 questions for you:

1) When your institution gives out merit scholarships (assuming that it does) what aspects do the recipients typically possess? Obviously academic excellence is a must. I'm interested in seeing whether extracurriculars play a role in this process.

2) Is athletic excellence a major plus in the admissions process? Assuming that the student already has a good application, can this set one applicant apart from another?

Thanks and have a great holiday.

 

[BABSstudent]

I want to send an update to schools to let them know what I have been up to this last semester and what I will be doing. I just finished one of my toughest semesters because I worked three jobs, did interviews, taught a few classes, got engaged and so much more. As such, my GPA was not impressive. It was only like a 3.5 (A, A, A-, B+, B). Should I include my grades in the update? I mean, they are not great but not bad. It was my final semester. I am looking for Adcom input to see how they would take the not stellar but not bad grades.

 

[Hotshy]

What's it like working in New Haven?

 

[Aluminum]

Lizzy, is there a way I can ask him/AMCAS to remove his letter?

Will I still be admissible next year? Will they keep the letter next year or blacklist me now?

 

[TheShaker]

The usual ratio is 20:80 or 80:20. If a school is highly ranked on the US News research list, it is going to applicants who are enthused about research.

Just to clarify, do you mean the 80:20 as the ratio of research to medicine? I was wondering about how many interviewees express a serious desire to do research in their future career. Also, what is highly ranked by your definition? (top 20, top 40, etc.)

Sorry for having so many questions! Thank you so much.

 

[nabilesmail]

How important are LOR? I pretty much just got teachers who knew my name and some participation in class to write me my LOR, I know they aren't going to be great, are these auto rejectS?

 

[Romz]

Hey LizzyM. Thank you for doing this. It is very much appreciated! I also thoroughly enjoyed reading Elf on the Shelf; what a witty and eloquently written piece.

For my question:

I am Honours Molecular Biology student. I am part of some program in my school that allows "academically successful" students to work along side a researcher in any field of science and potentially co-publish on the researcher's findings. While the co-publishing is an alluring aspect, the lab work is intensive and only one semester: It will count as a credit class and I will be awarded a mark. I also have an opportunity to engage in my Honours Thesis Project, which is a year long endeavour that I am also being graded on. That project in specific will probably deal with the effects and preventive measures regarding aging and is conducted by a very prominent researcher at my university.

Both are such great research opportunities. I would go for either one but they each have their cons. I'm worried that my semester long research project seems like a hurried attempt at getting research experience/a publication in my CV. While my honours thesis is a year long, I searched on SDN that honours thesis's don't carry much weight on an application. I also might not publish. Furthermore, I have a second opportunity to work on another semester-long research project in a completely different field with possible publication. All three of these projects will be done by the time I matriculate. However, not all three will be present on my CV when I send my application in.

What are your thoughts? Should I worry about the length of my exclusive research project harming me during applications? Should I just do an honours thesis? I'm looking forward to both projects, but i'm just trying to manage which ones will make the best impressions on ADCOMS.

Thank you for your input; It will help me loads in making my decision!

 

[AOK123]

LizzyM, this question has been buggin me for weeks and I can't find an answer from searching...

On some of the secondaries of the top tier schools I applied to, I indicated that I have an *interest* in doing private practice in the future, but would explore my interests during medical school. However, I also indicated that I wanted to do research during medical school and in my career. Did I shoot myself in the foot by saying I have an interest in private practice, even though I have no idea what I really want to do in the future? Some people have been saying that the field of medicine I want to enter is a non-issue for medical school, but I know top schools value research careers. If it makes a difference, I've received interview invites to these schools already.

Thank you.

 

[altamont850]

LizzyM,

I don't know if you have any experinece with BS/MD programs but here is my scenario:

Overall, I've been told that I'm a good applicant for a particular BS/MD program but I only have about a year to "beef up" my EC's. I'm involved in clinical volunteering, community serivce and research but I wonder how Adcoms evaluate EC's. Is the evaluation truly subjective?

 

[Romz]

I'd like to ask one more question

I was discussing with a wealthy friend of mine the admissions processes of private US medical schools. We both debated whether or not capacity to pay tuition upfront would be a relevant factor in admitting foreign students. Granted that my friend is a strong applicant, would his ability to pay the Foreign Tuition Rates at a private university help him in his chances at gaining acceptances to that university? That is to say, would he be more favourably considered/offered and interview over other foreign and possibly local students when declining the need for Financial Aid?

 

[vayntraubinator]

I've answered this before but here goes: It does vary by school. Imagine that people are standing on a huge staircase with those who have the highest stats and the most remarkable experiences at the top stair and downward to the least among those who are interviewed. After the interview, the applicants can keep their place on their original stair, go up a step or two or go down a step or many steps. In most cases, the people with the higest stats are still at the top but some are sent to the bottom step and some people move up or down according to their performance.

You make a very interesting analogy.

If I have the academic ability to succeed (3.9+/33+), I've interviewed, and then waitlisted/deferred/hold at a place I'm near the mean, does that mean they are waiting for better applicants? (aka I'm not at the top #seat~ladder steps to get an offer)

Would additional letters of recommendation be beneficial? I've already been told I have strong LORs, but if I acquire say, three more really strong ones regarding my current activities, will my file be re-evaluated with each new LOR received? Would an LOR weigh more than an LOI I write, or even transcript updates? (Should I just send everything I can to get into that particular school? Is it over until its over?)

 

[LizzyM]

Hi, thanks for doing this

How does medical aid to underdeveloped countries sound to AdComs? In the sense of helping a small team of ~5 surgeons for about 15-20 days in these remote locations. Is it a huge plus or a minor positive?

Minor positive. It counts as "volunteer, medical".