Ask LizzyM (Almost) Anything 2012 edition

[scratchrice]

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Hey LizzyM, I was recently wait listed for an interview at one of my top choices. My stats are slightly above the average for this school in terms of GPA/MCAT.

Seeing as this is one of my top choices, should I write an appeal letter to the school? How are appeal letters looked upon during the admissions process? In your experience, has anyone ever written a successful appeal?

 

[LizzyM]

Hey LizzyM, I was recently wait listed for an interview at one of my top choices. My stats are slightly above the average for this school in terms of GPA/MCAT.

Seeing as this is one of my top choices, should I write an appeal letter to the school? How are appeal letters looked upon during the admissions process? In your experience, has anyone ever written a successful appeal?

In all my years, I've known one guy who successfully appealed in your situation. He ended up being admitted and graduating AOA (medical honor society). It was more than a decade ago and he had his pre-med advisor and a faculty member pulling for him at various stages in the process.

Apps are up this year over last year and up over two years ago. There are still a finite number of interview slots and we could fill every interview slot 3 times over with "above average" applicants.

I hope someone shows you some interview love.

 

[yjj8817]

Unless your theme is terrible (e.g "all the doctors that treated my late mother were terrible and I'm going to show the world what a real doctor is important") you should be fine recycling your old essay.

So if the secondaries questions have not changed and you want to use the exactly same personal statement that you used last time, you can literally copy/paste the essays? Even if you did not get in when you applied to a certain school for the first time, you can use the EXACTLY SAME essays when you reapply?

 

[LizzyM]

So if the secondaries questions have not changed and you want to use the exactly same personal statement that you used last time, you can literally copy/paste the essays? Even if you did not get in when you applied to a certain school for the first time, you can use the EXACTLY SAME essays when you reapply?

You can. Whether that is a good idea or not is debatable. There are few bits of prose that would not benefit from some editing.

 

[premed2000]

Hi LizzyM

Previously, you have said many will blame my current fruitless cycle on my verbal being 9.

1) What is your view on VR being 9? Is that an important factor you take into account when you assess an applicant? Will someone who has a VR of 10 be that much better than someone with a 9?

2) Does ADCOM take into account of English being second language? For me in particular, I have never learned/spoken a word of English until the age of 13. In some ways, I feel like a 9 is pretty decent for someone like me, who is now truly capable of writing, reading, and communicating without trouble.

3) This question might be a little controversial, but does race/ethnicity play a huge factor when deciding who to grant interview? I am asking this partly because being an Asian-American, I am inclined to think that even though the avg. MCAT for matriculating class of many mid to top tier schools range from 33-35, the average MCAT for matriculating Asians perhaps have a much higher average than the avg? Say school A has an avg. MCAT of 34, but would it be wrong to think that the avg MCAT for asians or caucasions that are matriculating is much higher, say 36 or 37?

So even though I have an MCAT of 34, which is around the average of many mid to top tier medical schools, but being an Asian American, I am actually much below the average? Correct me if I am wrong on this.

Thank you so much.

 

[Heavenblessing]

Hi!

I would like to know if this is considered clinical experience. I did a bit of health education with participants for HIV clinical trial research by explaining the study, noting their medical history, reviewing medical records, consenting etc
Also, I did another research study on people living with HIV with the same tasks as above including taking oral/mouth culture samples. I did both during grad school for my MPH at Emory, so about 1.5 years.

I am unsure if these will be considered clinical experience, would you consider the tasks as clinical? Should I do more clinical?

I was thinking of volunteering at a hospice clinic if those were not enough or not considered clinical. I am currently doing postbacc/premed classes at a state school and will start shadowing an ID doctor (same PI on one of the studies I worked on). Im trying to complete all prereqs, volunteering, shadowing, clinical and MCAT within the 2012-2013 year and take my MCAT Jan 2014 (provided I do well enough to avoid 2015 and have to take extra classes).

Thanks

 

[SBuck53]

Hi LizzyM!

This is a curriculum question, but I promise it pertains to application!

Many schools seem to be trending towards a 1.5 yr pre-clinical curriculum. I have seen some newer curricula looking to do 1 yr pre-clinical, or even a recent development of a 3 yr MD degree.

Is this an important aspect to consider when looking at schools? Or do you consider the strength of the clinical experiences to be more valuable to a doctor-in-training?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM

Previously, you have said many will blame my current fruitless cycle on my verbal being 9.

1) What is your view on VR being 9? Is that an important factor you take into account when you assess an applicant? Will someone who has a VR of 10 be that much better than someone with a 9?

In percentiles a 9 is 52-68 and a 10 is 68-83. So a 9 is top half but not top third and 10 is top third but not top 15%. By comparison, there is a very small difference between a 12 (96-98) and 13 (98-100). For as long as I've been on this board, people have been talking about how double digits in all three sections are an important goal. Maybe it is just one of those things I read here but it does seem that a 9 is less desirable than a 10 and the difference by percentile is significant.

2) Does ADCOM take into account of English being second language? For me in particular, I have never learned/spoken a word of English until the age of 13. In some ways, I feel like a 9 is pretty decent for someone like me, who is now truly capable of writing, reading, and communicating without trouble.

English is the language of instruction at the medical schools you've applied to. Regardless of what other languages you speak or how old you were when you learned English, you need to be able to read and understand English quickly because the amont of material that comes at you in medical school is legendary. So, while an application reviewer might cut some slack to an otherwise highly desirable applicant who is a non-native speaker of English, it is also possible that they may not dig that deep if they don't find strong reasons to admit you in the rest of your application.

3) This question might be a little controversial, but does race/ethnicity play a huge factor when deciding who to grant interview? I am asking this partly because being an Asian-American, I am inclined to think that even though the avg. MCAT for matriculating class of many mid to top tier schools range from 33-35, the average MCAT for matriculating Asians perhaps have a much higher average than the avg? Say school A has an avg. MCAT of 34, but would it be wrong to think that the avg MCAT for asians or caucasions that are matriculating is much higher, say 36 or 37?

So even though I have an MCAT of 34, which is around the average of many mid to top tier medical schools, but being an Asian American, I am actually much below the average? Correct me if I am wrong on this.

Thank you so much.

Starting with the question in bold, at most schools there are too few URM matriculants to skew the difference between mean MCAT and mean MCAT for whites/Asians by 2-3 points. It just isn't plausible.

Schools face two competing goals. One is to admit the best applicants possible and the other is to admit an racially diverse class. We know that at the population level that URM candidates have on average lower MCAT and GPA than white and Asian applicants. However, experience has shown that above a certain relatively low threshold, those with "below average" MCATs for our school can do well. So what do we do. We interview the best applicants and that includes the best URM applicants even though some of those "best applicants" have MCATs and/or GPAs below our school's avg.

In the end, the proportion of URM matriculants at most schools is very low, usually < 20% and in some cases < 15%. If the school reports mean scores, it only takes a 41 MCAT to balance a 29 and keep the average at 35. If medians and top and bottom 10% are reported as in the MSAR all you will know is that the bottom 10% are =< x but you don't know if x is the floor or if there are a few that are x-2 or x -5.

In any case, it is best to work to be in the top 40% of applicants in your racial/ethnic group.

Here you will find a table that provides info on gpa and MCAT for applicants and matriculants by race/ethnicity:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

It shows that you are above average among all Asian applicants on gpa and just about average among all Asian matriculants.

 

[philosonista]

Hello LizzieM,

Thanks so much for doing this! I have three questions.

1. I have been noticing patterns in the sort of students pre-meds shape themselves to be or, more importantly, how they don't shape themselves. I notice lots of volunteering, research, high grades, creating non-profits, etc, and what I don't ever see are activities that have, I guess you could say, an opposing ethical slant to those typical activities. Surely, an accomplished classical violinist would be looked favorably upon by ADCOM's, but would a leader of a heavy medal band that has won multiple college level "Battle of the Bands" be looked upon favorably too? The band leader has shown himself to possess many of the traits med schools look for -- leadership, dedication, etc -- but he has done it through an activity that does not fit the ethical same mold as the classical accomplished violinist. What sorts of activities are considered digressions of the applicant that are not seen favorably? More importantly, why, if ADCOM's do view these poorly, do they feel this way?

2. This is a bit of an extrapolation off my last question, but a separate question nonetheless. How do ADCOM's feel about students who have profiles which suggests a life geared simply toward the goal of medical school with no other interests. Sure, this student may have everything -- the high MCAT, the GPA, the research, the volunteering, the shadowing -- but it may seem like his/her entire life has been simply geared toward the hope of a medical school admission. Do ADCOM's look at such a thing poorly or favorably and why?

3. My college's honors program requires that I study abroad. Are there any specific programs or just general ideas for programs that might be optimal for pre-meds? Or, instead, is this considered a time for pre-meds to indulge their other interests and gain different experiences? I'm assuming that I'm right in that med schools do not like pre-reqs done abroad.

Thank you so much for your time.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi!

I would like to know if this is considered clinical experience. I did a bit of health education with participants for HIV clinical trial research by explaining the study, noting their medical history, reviewing medical records, consenting etc
Also, I did another research study on people living with HIV with the same tasks as above including taking oral/mouth culture samples. I did both during grad school for my MPH at Emory, so about 1.5 years.

I am unsure if these will be considered clinical experience, would you consider the tasks as clinical?

I'm known for my sig line "If you can smell patients, it is a clinical experience." Certainly if you close enough to the people with whom you interacted but were they patients?? If someone works at Weight Watchers and weighs clients who are suffering from the disease of obesity (yes, obesity is a chronic condition, just like HIV) is that clinical experience??

What you did was a low level research experience, similar to managing a mouse colony and taking samples from the study subjects (with no disrespect meant to to human beings who were subjects of your study).

So, while you have engaged in interactions with people who have a medical condition and you have dug into samples for research purposes, you haven't had any experiences with patients.

Should I do more clinical?

Yes, you should have some experience with people who are seeking and receiving medical care (not research interventions).

I was thinking of volunteering at a hospice clinic if those were not enough or not considered clinical. I am currently doing postbacc/premed classes at a state school and will start shadowing an ID doctor (same PI on one of the studies I worked on). Im trying to complete all prereqs, volunteering, shadowing, clinical and MCAT within the 2012-2013 year and take my MCAT Jan 2014 (provided I do well enough to avoid 2015 and have to take extra classes).

Thanks

Shadowing is important. If the hospice experience is in people's homes, it might be helpful to have a clinical experience in an institutional setting as well whether a hospital, public clinic, private practice setting or elsewhere.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM!

This is a curriculum question, but I promise it pertains to application!

Many schools seem to be trending towards a 1.5 yr pre-clinical curriculum. I have seen some newer curricula looking to do 1 yr pre-clinical, or even a recent development of a 3 yr MD degree.

Is this an important aspect to consider when looking at schools? Or do you consider the strength of the clinical experiences to be more valuable to a doctor-in-training?

I really have no opinion on this subject. The manner in which medicine is taught is changing and time will tell if the change better prepares students for the modern practice of medicine. I just don't know enough to be able to form an opinion.

 

[LizzyM]

Hello LizzieM,

Thanks so much for doing this! I have three questions.

1. I have been noticing patterns in the sort of students pre-meds shape themselves to be or, more importantly, how they don't shape themselves. I notice lots of volunteering, research, high grades, creating non-profits, etc, and what I don't ever see are activities that have, I guess you could say, an opposing ethical slant to those typical activities. Surely, an accomplished classical violinist would be looked favorably upon by ADCOM's, but would a leader of a heavy medal band that has won multiple college level "Battle of the Bands" be looked upon favorably too? The band leader has shown himself to possess many of the traits med schools look for -- leadership, dedication, etc -- but he has done it through an activity that does not fit the ethical same mold as the classical accomplished violinist. What sorts of activities are considered digressions of the applicant that are not seen favorably? More importantly, why, if ADCOM's do view these poorly, do they feel this way?

Violinists (and pianists) are a dime a dozen. Leaders of heavy metal bands are very, very rare among medical school applicants or perhaps, fearing discrimination, said leaders don't list it on the application. We can't view them favorably or unfavorably if we never see them.

2. This is a bit of an extrapolation off my last question, but a separate question nonetheless. How do ADCOM's feel about students who have profiles which suggests a life geared simply toward the goal of medical school with no other interests. Sure, this student may have everything -- the high MCAT, the GPA, the research, the volunteering, the shadowing -- but it may seem like his/her entire life has been simply geared toward the hope of a medical school admission. Do ADCOM's look at such a thing poorly or favorably and why?

Ever hear of the desirability of being "well rounded". That's not a reference to one's waist to hip ratio. 😉 Adcoms like to see people who are interesting to chat with, who have interests outside of medicine and who they would enjoy having as colleagues. Let's face it, if you are going to have a med student on your team and eat lunch with him every day for 4-10 weeks during his clerkship in your area, don't you want someone who is going to be fun to be with as well as whip smart, hard working and a team player?

3. My college's honors program requires that I study abroad. Are there any specific programs or just general ideas for programs that might be optimal for pre-meds? Or, instead, is this considered a time for pre-meds to indulge their other interests and gain different experiences? I'm assuming that I'm right in that med schools do not like pre-reqs done abroad.

Thank you so much for your time.

I've seen pre-meds do something like physics or o-chem abroad. The concepts are the same although the teaching methods and grading systems can screw a US pre-med student (much stricter or different in their focus). That said, some students will do a summer program or otherwise pack in the pre-reqs and then spend the semester abroad doing foreign language, art/music appreciation, history, health policy, ecology or marine biology to take advantage of the location of the study abroad program.

 

[Gauss44]

On the AMCAS application, I've heard that they give the option of listing a reference for each club or event a student was part of (...held office in, organized, etc.). How much does it matter to admissions committees whether or not a reference is left based on your experience? If the applicant does NOT provide a reference, does that club, etc. still count as much as it would with a reference? Does it matter if the student is traditional or non-traditional and out of school for a while? Thanks.

 

[LizzyM]

On the AMCAS application, they give the option of listing a reference for each club or event a student was part of (...held office in, organized, etc.). How much does it matter to admissions committees whether or not a reference is left based on your experience? If the applicant does NOT provide a reference, does that club, etc. still count as much as it would with a reference? Does it matter if the student is traditional or non-traditional and out of school for a while? Thanks.

First, you need provide information only on those activities you choose to list on the application. You are not required to list every activity you've been a part of.

Second, the listing of a name of a contact person for a given experience is optional. Frankly, I barely register that the field is filled in, never mind the name and title of the person listed there. In the last 5 years, I can only remember one time when the adcom asked the dean of admissions to call a contact and check out whether the entry was "legit" (the answers provided by the applicant during the interview made us wonder if the entry was fabricated.... and I don't even remember what the outcome of that phone call was, maybe I was absent when the follow-up was reported to us).

 

[sinombre]

Have you observed a general correlation between numbers and charisma/personability/social aptitude? I find it somewhat interesting that the most personable applicants I know have low-ish numbers, while those with the highest numbers are comparatively awkward. I'm guessing because your institution is saturated with top-notch applicants that you probably don't observe this phenomenon while interviewing, or at least to a lesser degree than it may exist. But have you observed it in other contexts (e.g. advising undergraduates, advising your friends' kids, etc.)?

 

[k2on3hru]

Could a medical school rescind an acceptance if an adcom member runs into the applicant in public and doesn't approve of their behavior? (Nothing outrageous...just being loud or cursing or something along those lines)

 

[Ipsca]

Hi,

Thanks for your response to my earlier question about retaking o-chem!

I have one more question- in general, how much of a red flag is it when recommendation letters that you might expect to see aren't there?

For instance, I worked in a lab for a year, but the PI in the lab has a policy that she won't write a letter of recommendation for anyone who spent less than two years working in the lab. And my current supervisor is lovely, but has poor writing skills. I have letters from three professors and another PI, as well as a premed committee letter. But will it be weird that letters from those other people are missing?

 

[alamofire]

Hi Lizzy,

Is it possible for an recommender to update their letter?

I asked a former business partner and mentor to write a letter on my behalf. He wrote about qualities that made me a great entrepreneur-- eg competitive drive and cunning-- and omitted ones that would make me a good physician-- eg team leader, or product manager who listens to and would do anything to help a customer. Ultimately I think his letter has turned the strongest part of my app into the weakest and I'm trying to do damage control.

 

[Si Se Puede]

When is the last day to ask questions? New year's eve?

 

[MelissaThompson]

Hi Lizzy,

Is it possible for an recommender to update their letter?

I asked a former business partner and mentor to write a letter on my behalf. He wrote about qualities that made me a great entrepreneur-- eg competitive drive and cunning-- and omitted ones that would make me a good physician-- eg team leader, or product manager who listens to and would do anything to help a customer. Ultimately I think his letter has turned the strongest part of my app into the weakest and I'm trying to do damage control.

Cunning??

That word would get your app thrown into the trash.

 

[Member 987653]

Hi Lizzy,

I once found myself in a situation in which my interviewer was running 30 minutes behind schedule so that the interviewee before me didn't go in until I was scheduled to begin. I then had to hang around until he was finished, and so on. As a result, the first student had an hour-long interview while each of those who followed were limited to 10 to 20 minutes.

Did we do the correct thing by waiting for the first interview to finish or should we have knocked and alerted the interviewer to the fact that he had a line of students waiting to meet with him? If I find myself in a similar situation again, what would you suggest I do?

Thank you!

 

[Member 987653]

oops, double-post

 

[einstein1990]

LizzyM-

I'm on the fence about updating schools with my first semester SMP GPA. I applied last year and then again immediately, without taking a gap year. I had 5 interviews - got accepted at a place I really liked in early November. However, I have been deferred/put on hold at 3 of the other schools, 3 schools that I'd LOVE to attend. I'm waiting to hear back from the 5th. That being said, I missed a decent amount of class for interviews and I admit I slacked off a bit after getting accepted. I ended with a GPA of 3.5.

This is lower than the GPA I've gotten as an undergrad for the past 6 semesters (all of which have been 3.7+, my cGPA on AMCAS was a 3.62). The breakdown was: biochem (3h): A, cell phys (3h): B+, function of human body (4h): B, clinical bioethics (1h): A, professional development (1h); A.

Also noteworthy is that I did not list this SMP on my schools in AMCAS. However, I did mention it in my personal statement.

Would it be helpful or hurtful to send this GPA to schools - both ones I've interviewed at and ones that I'm waiting to hear from? The SMP has the guarantee that if you have a 3.5+ in the program/30+ on the MCAT (I have a 32) you get an automatic interview at this school NEXT cycle. I want to improve my chances of getting accepted at these 3 schools I'm on hold at, and I don't know if I should send the grades or not. Also, I haven't gotten an II from the school the program is at.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[t5Nitro]

Do you see it unfavorable to split the last semester of undergrad into two part time semesters to ease the workload? I feel that this will only make adcoms see it as a weakness.

 

[MelissaThompson]

Hi Lizzy,

I once found myself in a situation in which my interviewer was running 30 minutes behind schedule so that the interviewee before me didn't go in until I was scheduled to begin. I then had to hang around until he was finished, and so on. As a result, the first student had an hour-long interview while each of those who followed were limited to 10 to 20 minutes.

Did we do the correct thing by waiting for the first interview to finish or should we have knocked and alerted the interviewer to the fact that he had a line of students waiting to meet with him? If I find myself in a similar situation again, what would you suggest I do?

Thank you!

Wow what a ****ty situation - you should write a letter to the school asking for a 2nd interview.

10 minute - interview?? My interview at Temple lasted 45 minutes - 10 minutes of that was just small talk!

 

[Anathema]

Hi LizzyM

For hospital volunteering, where do adcomms decide that what will suffice and what won't? I've volunteered at a clinic during high school and very sparsely during college. I also volunteer during breaks at a nursing home and I'll be volunteering at a hospital at my college for a semester or so. Overall I'd have 250+ hours but would adcomms not like that I was all over the place with my clinical experience? The clinic during high school and college is nearby the nursing home but they're not directly affiliated.

Also, how much do adcomms care about fluctuations in GPA as long as it's high? e.g. having a 3.8+ but bouncing between 3.9 and 3.4 in semesters.

Thanks

 

[Ansar]

Also, how much do adcomms care about fluctuations in GPA as long as it's high? e.g. having a 3.8+ but bouncing between 3.9 and 3.4 in semesters.

Not LizzyM, but she's said before that they don't look at individual semesters, but at GPA per year (i.e. your freshman year, your sophomore, etc.) and that most people have a J-looking curve, where the second year is the culprit (as students tend to ochem and do a bit worse than in their other years).

 

[plabyrinth]

Hi LizzyM,

Thank you so much for doing this. It is very kind of you.

I have a question regarding my MCAT score. I took it in late July 2012 and scored a 35N (13-8-14). I was very disappointed at my verbal score but applied anyway. English is my second language and I learned it five years ago when I came to the US. I understand that it is not an excuse for scoring so badly. Should I retake the MCAT in January and update my score before some medical schools make their final decisions in March or is it too late? My GPA is 4.0 at a well-known public university.


Thank you again. Happy Holidays!

 

[plabyrinth]

oops. My questions were posted twice.

 

[VitaminVater]

How would you differently evaluate those applying as a junior as opposed to someone applying in their graduating year of UG?

 

[LizzyM]

Have you observed a general correlation between numbers and charisma/personability/social aptitude?

There is a U shaped curve. The very high end (LizzyM score > 79) and the lower end (LizzyM score < 64) seem to have greater difficulty with social interactions during interviews. At the lower end, I think they are too nervous to think straight and the high end has a a fair proportion of socially challenged individuals.

I find it somewhat interesting that the most personable applicants I know have low-ish numbers, while those with the highest numbers are comparatively awkward. I'm guessing because your institution is saturated with top-notch applicants that you probably don't observe this phenomenon while interviewing, or at least to a lesser degree than it may exist. But have you observed it in other contexts (e.g. advising undergraduates, advising your friends' kids, etc.)?

 

[LizzyM]

Could a medical school rescind an acceptance if an adcom member runs into the applicant in public and doesn't approve of their behavior? (Nothing outrageous...just being loud or cursing or something along those lines)

The behavior would have to be something illegal or immoral, I think, for it to cause an offer to be pulled. However, as we learned in November, cyber bullying can result in an offer being rescinded.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi,

Thanks for your response to my earlier question about retaking o-chem!

I have one more question- in general, how much of a red flag is it when recommendation letters that you might expect to see aren't there?

For instance, I worked in a lab for a year, but the PI in the lab has a policy that she won't write a letter of recommendation for anyone who spent less than two years working in the lab. And my current supervisor is lovely, but has poor writing skills. I have letters from three professors and another PI, as well as a premed committee letter. But will it be weird that letters from those other people are missing?

Some adcom members go nuts when a letter from a PI is missing. Others don't seem to notice or care. So, by luck of the draw, at some schools you might be reviewed by someone who doesn't notice the "missing" letter and at another school it could be considered suspicious not to have that letter. That's one of the reasons people tend to recommend applying broadly.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,

Is it possible for an recommender to update their letter?

I asked a former business partner and mentor to write a letter on my behalf. He wrote about qualities that made me a great entrepreneur-- eg competitive drive and cunning-- and omitted ones that would make me a good physician-- eg team leader, or product manager who listens to and would do anything to help a customer. Ultimately I think his letter has turned the strongest part of my app into the weakest and I'm trying to do damage control.

I suppose a second letter could be submitted but that would seem contrived.

Word to others who might be reading along here, always discuss with a letter writer what characteristics you think are important to be mentioned in the letter. ("I know, old chap, that you can recommend me for my teamwork and my customer service skills...")

 

[ur2l8]

The behavior would have to be something illegal or immoral, I think, for it to cause an offer to be pulled. However, as we learned in November, cyber bullying can result in an offer being rescinded.

Are you referring to someone on the forum?

 

[LizzyM]

When is the last day to ask questions? New year's eve?

Yes, let's say Noon PST on 12/31.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,

I once found myself in a situation in which my interviewer was running 30 minutes behind schedule so that the interviewee before me didn't go in until I was scheduled to begin. I then had to hang around until he was finished, and so on. As a result, the first student had an hour-long interview while each of those who followed were limited to 10 to 20 minutes.

Did we do the correct thing by waiting for the first interview to finish or should we have knocked and alerted the interviewer to the fact that he had a line of students waiting to meet with him? If I find myself in a similar situation again, what would you suggest I do?

Thank you!

Be patient. If there is a receptionist or other employee outside of the interview room who you (or the person ahead of you) can alert to the fact that you (or the person ahead of you) had a 10:00 appointment and now it is 10:15, then do that. At the interview you should try to be cheerful, flexible, and willing to go with the flow. A 10 or 20 minute interview can be as effective as a 30 minute interview and if you can remain upbeat and make your points despite being thrown off your game, you will be considered a stronger applicant for it.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM-

I'm on the fence about updating schools with my first semester SMP GPA. I applied last year and then again immediately, without taking a gap year. I had 5 interviews - got accepted at a place I really liked in early November. However, I have been deferred/put on hold at 3 of the other schools, 3 schools that I'd LOVE to attend. I'm waiting to hear back from the 5th. That being said, I missed a decent amount of class for interviews and I admit I slacked off a bit after getting accepted. I ended with a GPA of 3.5.

This is lower than the GPA I've gotten as an undergrad for the past 6 semesters (all of which have been 3.7+, my cGPA on AMCAS was a 3.62). The breakdown was: biochem (3h): A, cell phys (3h): B+, function of human body (4h): B, clinical bioethics (1h): A, professional development (1h); A.

Also noteworthy is that I did not list this SMP on my schools in AMCAS. However, I did mention it in my personal statement.

Would it be helpful or hurtful to send this GPA to schools - both ones I've interviewed at and ones that I'm waiting to hear from? The SMP has the guarantee that if you have a 3.5+ in the program/30+ on the MCAT (I have a 32) you get an automatic interview at this school NEXT cycle. I want to improve my chances of getting accepted at these 3 schools I'm on hold at, and I don't know if I should send the grades or not. Also, I haven't gotten an II from the school the program is at.

Any input would be appreciated.

I see very, very few applicants who are enrolled in SMPs so I'm not sure if sending an update with those grades would help or hurt you get an interview at your dream schools this year. Even if submitting hurts your chances, you have an offer already so what you you have to lose? You are going to med school in 2013! 🙂

 

[LizzyM]

Do you see it unfavorable to split the last semester of undergrad into two part time semesters to ease the workload? I feel that this will only make adcoms see it as a weakness.

It takes some hard work to notice that on the AMCAS application. I would be likely to overlook it unless I really looked at the start and end dates for the period of time spent in college.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM

For hospital volunteering, where do adcomms decide that what will suffice and what won't? I've volunteered at a clinic during high school and very sparsely during college. I also volunteer during breaks at a nursing home and I'll be volunteering at a hospital at my college for a semester or so. Overall I'd have 250+ hours but would adcomms not like that I was all over the place with my clinical experience? The clinic during high school and college is nearby the nursing home but they're not directly affiliated.

The question adcom members are asking themselves is, "How did this applicant test his/her interest in medicine?" and "Is this applicant someone who makes an effort to be of service to others? Is this applicant altruistic?"

It is not so much about the hours or the location as much as it is showing that you have had clinical experiences as an adult (which usually means after HS graduation) that have given you a glimpse of what is involved in the provision of medical care. Likewise, altruism is not about number of hours but the unselfish giving of your time to those in need. Some adcom members actually look for some non-clinical volunteering (soup kitchen, literacy volunteer, etc) as less selfish because it doesn't provide a clinical experience that an applicant is seeking for his/her own self-advancement.

Also, how much do adcomms care about fluctuations in GPA as long as it's high? e.g. having a 3.8+ but bouncing between 3.9 and 3.4 in semesters.

Thanks

They tend to look at gpa by academic year, not by semester.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

Thank you so much for doing this. It is very kind of you.

I have a question regarding my MCAT score. I took it in late July 2012 and scored a 35N (13-8-14). I was very disappointed at my verbal score but applied anyway. English is my second language and I learned it five years ago when I came to the US. I understand that it is not an excuse for scoring so badly. Should I retake the MCAT in January and update my score before some medical schools make their final decisions in March or is it too late? My GPA is 4.0 at a well-known public university.


Thank you again. Happy Holidays!

If you have had some interviews, you might be okay despite the low verbal score. If you have not had any interviews, you might want to retake in 2013 and reapply in June.

 

[LizzyM]

How would you differently evaluate those applying as a junior as opposed to someone applying in their graduating year of UG?

Well, someone who has already graduated has a gap year so we ask ourselves, "what is this applicant doing during the gap year?". Some adcom members also seem to be curious whether this is a reapplicant or a first-time applicant.

 

[LizzyM]

Are you referring to someone on the forum?

Over in pre-osteo. It seems an accepted applicant was talking trash on the Facebook page for admitted students. The school rescinded the offer in an email the day before Thanksgiving and said in the message something like, "don't contact us, this decision is final." Of course, the applicant was looking at a long 4 day weekend wondering if this might be a hoax but it wasn't. 😱

 

[flyers]

Hi LizzyM,

I have a question regarding end-of-semester update letters. Is there anything else important to include in update letters other than new grades and on-going EC's? Would it be helpful to reiterate our interest in the school, kind of like a letter of interest? The reason I'm asking is that I don't have anything too substantial to say in an update letter, but I feel like I should at least send in something (to show interest).

Thanks a lot.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM,

I have a question regarding end-of-semester update letters. Is there anything else important to include in update letters other than new grades and on-going EC's? Would it be helpful to reiterate our interest in the school, kind of like a letter of interest? The reason I'm asking is that I don't have anything too substantial to say in an update letter, but I feel like I should at least send in something (to show interest).

Thanks a lot.

It never hurts to say thank you for considering my application and it would be an honor to study medicine at this school.

 

[plabyrinth]

If you have had some interviews, you might be okay despite the low verbal score. If you have not had any interviews, you might want to retake in 2013 and reapply in June.

Thanks. I actually got some interviews already and I also got an acceptance. I guess I should just wait and see what will happen.

 

[IkeLikesToHike]

Hi Lizzy, longtime fan.

Does double-majoring help at all? How much?

No. not at all.

Could you explain the adcom's rationale for this? My intuition was that with schools' increasing desire for well-rounded applicants (with exposure to other academic disciplines such as in the social sciences) that a double major in biology and sociology/anthropology/psych would be more desirable than just a plain bio major.

At the least doesn't a double major indicate that the student took the extra initiative to explore another field, sometimes even at the cost of taking 18 credits a semester instead of 14 or 15?

Thanks for your input!🙂

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy, longtime fan.





Could you explain the adcom's rationale for this? My intuition was that with schools' increasing desire for well-rounded applicants (with exposure to other academic disciplines such as in the social sciences) that a double major in biology and sociology/anthropology/psych would be more desirable than just a plain bio major.

At the least doesn't a double major indicate that the student took the extra initiative to explore another field, sometimes even at the cost of taking 18 credits a semester instead of 14 or 15?

Thanks for your input!🙂

A double major indicates depth in two areas. This may have been at a sacrifice of breadth. On the other hand, a chem major, where some of the pre-reqs do double duty as credits toward the major, might leave many electives scattered across a dozen different disciplines thus sacrificing depth for breadth. It is a delicate balance and with rare exception, most adcom members don't care one way or the other. Do as you please, but not because it will impress the adcom.

 

[heartshaped box]

Over in pre-osteo. It seems an accepted applicant was talking trash on the Facebook page for admitted students. The school rescinded the offer in an email the day before Thanksgiving and said in the message something like, "don't contact us, this decision is final." Of course, the applicant was looking at a long 4 day weekend wondering if this might be a hoax but it wasn't. 😱

Wow, well-played by the school. I kind of feel bad for him. He was unwise and cruel, but had the worst Thanksgiving break an applicant can have.

 

[BruinBear13]

LizzyM,

First off, thank you so much for doing this.

My question is: would a sGPA of 3.77 offset a rather average cGPA of 3.65? Or would adcoms tend to put more weight on the cGPA? I fear that my cGPA will be the main thing holding me back from getting in high end schools.

Once again, this is very much appreciated! Hope you are having a wonderful holiday =]