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Does someone getting a huge boost from a great interview, when they were otherwise a marginal candidate likely interviewing for the waitlist, happen with any frequency? Or is the interview far more likely to break someone than make them?


Do you think there is a major shift in what is being looked for regarding reseach/community service balance (not the presence thereof, but what percent of EC time they take up) when contrasting the more highly ranked, research heavy schools versus the more typical schools? More specifically, do you think such more typical schools would care less about research and would actually prefer more community service over more research to the point that they may look upon it disfavorably as "not a good fit"?
 
jaygatsby said:
So when people say that good performance in upper-div science classes can help to override lower pre-req grades, we should take that with a grain of salt?

Thanks for doing this AMA, by the way. You seem to be on FIRE right now.
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AMA?? Against medical advice?? What is AMA in this context? :laugh:

Your good performance in upper level courses got you the interviews & offer(s) you've gotten so far. Be thankful. Without a good performance in the upper level courses, you might not have gotten in anywhere.
 
ive been told that i am taking med school type classes now (anatomy, physiology, biochemistry) by an interviewer. how would an interviewer or adcom look at these classes
 
tiedyeddog said:
Ever figure out who someone was by something they posted on SDN during an application cycle? Did it make a difference in their chances?
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Yes. No.

Poster got into Harvard & Hopkins and at least 5 other schools. That I knew him through sdn didn't matter but I think that what he learned here helped him.
 
jcruiser said:
If you've offered someone with a low gpa and average stats an interview, what compelled you to do so? How did the interview go?
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Sometimes they come highly recommended by someone we respect, sometimes they have had a life experience that is unusual and could be very valuable for a physician. The interviews tend to be all over the map, from very, very good (impressive) to very disappointing.
 
Sephiroth said:
Does someone getting a huge boost from a great interview, when they were otherwise a marginal candidate likely interviewing for the waitlist, happen with any frequency? Or is the interview far more likely to break someone than make them?
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It can go both ways. 40/4.0 can end up on the waitlist and a 3.3/33 can be recruited and both can happen on the basis of the interview.
Do you think there is a major shift in what is being looked for regarding reseach/community service balance (not the presence thereof, but what percent of EC time they take up) when contrasting the more highly ranked, research heavy schools versus the more typical schools? More specifically, do you think such more typical schools would care less about research and would actually prefer more community service over more research to the point that they may look upon it disfavorably as "not a good fit"?
Click to expand...

I know nothing about what goes on in the adcoms of the "typical schools".
 
Thanks for doing this LizzyM!

In your experience, how does previous incomplete graduate work flag an applicant (I'm guessing it's a red flag)? In my case, I went to grad school for one year in a Masters program then withdrew. The withdrawal was not for any academic reason (grades were good and my advisor was quite happy with how I was doing) but due to personal reasons (abusive marriage).

Is it something that's in my best interest to address up front in my initial application, both the reasons for my withdrawal and what I've done to overcome those issues relating to it (It'll be almost 10 years past by the time I'll be applying to med school), or should I let it be and be ready to talk about it if I'm given an interview? My concern is not addressing it would potentially lead some adcoms to pass me over without knowing the details. Relatedly, is there a point where exploring/explaining your past is TMI or a red flag?
 
First, thanks ALOT for doing this. It is really kind of you to take time out to answer questions and I really appreciate it!

I have two quick questions:

1. Can the "prestige" or academic rigor of a school help offset a low GPA? I got to Yale and major in biology with about a cGPA: 3.6 and sGPA: 3.4. I know the top medical schools are out of the question, but for more average schools, will they consider my GPA in the context of the difficulty of my undergrad?


2. Also, how important is clinical volunteering? I worked in a medical clinic for about two years and accumulated 250 hours. But most of it was filing paper work and scheduling patient appointments. I did occasionally have the opportunity to take patients blood pressure, height, and weight, but very seldom.

Would this count as clinical experience?
 
LizzyM said:
That if you refuse to refer patients for abortions for reasons of conscience, you can't be a doctor.
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:laugh: 👍
well played. I'm surprised you actually followed that thread.
 
Damn, I actually contributed to starting a useful thread on sdn.

1- have you ever rejected a candidate because they have been too good? Do you think this might happen as suggested at "lower-tier" schools?

2- do letters of interest / update letters get read closely enough to make a difference?

3- do you tend to prefer interviewees that are the opposite gender of you?

4- what do you think of students graduating in 3 years and applying after their second?
Is it simply a matter of maturity or does it ever become a problem that they may have taken fewer classes.

5- when evaluating applicants, is the fact that someone who is 22 as opposed to 20 should have had much more time to get ECs in taken into account.

Pre-emptive thank you
 
Elewynne said:
Thanks for doing this LizzyM!

In your experience, how does previous incomplete graduate work flag an applicant (I'm guessing it's a red flag)? In my case, I went to grad school for one year in a Masters program then withdrew. The withdrawal was not for any academic reason (grades were good and my advisor was quite happy with how I was doing) but due to personal reasons (abusive marriage).

Is it something that's in my best interest to address up front in my initial application, both the reasons for my withdrawal and what I've done to overcome those issues relating to it (It'll be almost 10 years past by the time I'll be applying to med school), or should I let it be and be ready to talk about it if I'm given an interview? My concern is not addressing it would potentially lead some adcoms to pass me over without knowing the details. Relatedly, is there a point where exploring/explaining your past is TMI or a red flag?
Click to expand...

If it has been a long time ago (>5 yrs) and you have a good reason for choosing medicine, you can make a brief mention of the aborted program but it isn't necessary to go into details. "Wrong program at the wrong time" would be enough given the time that has elapsed. A school just wants to make sure that whatever caused it isn't going to recur & cause you to drop out of med school.
 
Dbate said:
First, thanks ALOT for doing this. It is really kind of you to take time out to answer questions and I really appreciate it!

I have two quick questions:

1. Can the "prestige" or academic rigor of a school help offset a low GPA? I got to Yale and major in biology with about a cGPA: 3.6 and sGPA: 3.4. I know the top medical schools are out of the question, but for more average schools, will they consider my GPA in the context of the difficulty of my undergrad?
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Yes. Some top tier schools will even consider you if your grades aren't too bad (nothing less than B minus) and you have done some interesting things beside going to school.

2. Also, how important is clinical volunteering? I worked in a medical clinic for about two years and accumulated 250 hours. But most of it was filing paper work and scheduling patient appointments. I did occasionally have the opportunity to take patients blood pressure, height, and weight, but very seldom.

Would this count as clinical experience?
Click to expand...

You interacted with people seeking medical care. In some cases you even touched them. That counts.
 
ialwayslose said:
Damn, I actually contributed to starting a useful thread on sdn.

1- have you ever rejected a candidate because they have been too good? Do you think this might happen as suggested at "lower-tier" schools?
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No. Maybe, not sure.
2- do letters of interest / update letters get read closely enough to make a difference?
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Sometimes.
3- do you tend to prefer interviewees that are the opposite gender of you?
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No preference.
4- what do you think of students graduating in 3 years and applying after their second?
Is it simply a matter of maturity or does it ever become a problem that they may have taken fewer classes.
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They don't have enough of a record. It puts them at a disadvantage compared with seniors and recent grads.
5- when evaluating applicants, is the fact that someone who is 22 as opposed to 20 should have had much more time to get ECs in taken into account.

Pre-emptive thank you
Click to expand...
We don't cut the 20 year old any slack, if that's what you are asking.
 
1)Are third time reapplicants looked down upon?

2)Is post undergraduate unemployment (1 year +) looked down upon? What if it is filled with volunteer work for 30-40 hrs a week?

3)How can a reapplicant find out if he has a red flag?

4) What advice would you give for a reapplicant who went through 6 interviews---> 0 acceptances during one cycle. And in the next cycle received professional interview help, but still receives 0 acceptances after 6 interviews? Should he call it quits?
 
CaliforniaAppli said:
1)Are third time reapplicants looked down upon?

2)Is post undergraduate unemployment (1 year +) looked down upon? What if it is filled with volunteer work for 30-40 hrs a week?

3)How can a reapplicant find out if he has a red flag?

4) What advice would you give for a reapplicant who went through 6 interviews---> 0 acceptances during one cycle. And in the next cycle received professional interview help, but still receives 0 acceptances after 6 interviews? Should he call it quits?
Click to expand...

If you've had 12 interviews over two cycles and no offers of admission, you have a red flag in either your application or in the way you come across at interview. Not being employed for more than a year after college graduation could be a related issue although in this economy, I've been giving applicants the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Third applications are like third marriages when the first two ended in divorce. One has to wonder why it hasn't worked out in the past.
 
LizzyM said:
They don't have enough of a record. It puts them at a disadvantage compared with seniors and recent grads. We don't cut the 20 year old any slack, if that's what you are asking.
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Do you think this can be overcome by good grades (As) in almost all courses and a solid MCAT score >37? Or do you think it's still too large of a disadvantage for top tier schools?

Edit: given good ECs
 
For someone out of college two or three years before applying do you tend to look at their recent activities more-so than their college activities?

And do you have different extra-curricular expectations for a 24-year old working full time, for example, than a 21-year old who is a student?
 
Assuming you work in the northeast..

How many applicants do you see from the southwest US? Do a lot of them stand a fair chance against applicants from northeast/ivys?
 
Hi Lizzy, thank you for doing this!

When admissions committees say they only look at an applicant's most recent MCAT scores, to what extent is this true? Adcoms are, after all, human, and surely there will be at least one member who keeps the first set of scores in the back of his or her head. Also, if the difference in scores is significant (e.g., 10-12 points), how do adcoms perceive such an improvement?
 
ialwayslose said:
Do you think this can be overcome by good grades (As) in almost all courses and a solid MCAT score >37? Or do you think it's still too large of a disadvantage for top tier schools?

Edit: given good ECs
Click to expand...

Sometimes they just come off as "too young" in the interviews. I interviewed a reapplicant/college graduate who was excellent at 20 but who I could have imagined as "too inexperienced/immature/green (as in not fully ripe)" a year earlier.
 
LizzyM said:
Yes. Some top tier schools will even consider you if your grades aren't too bad (nothing less than B minus) and you have done some interesting things beside going to school.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that having a C or two on your transcript is a disqualifier at some schools? What if a high gpa was still maintained?
 
Before I start, I would just like to thank you for doing this. You are the best.

1. I know that doing EMT work is categorized as "Pre-hospital" care, but is it looked down upon if most of your clinical volunteering comes from this (even if you shadow multiple doctors or do other hospital volunteering where you don't see patients)?*

*EDIT: I just saw your post about smelling patients, so I'm going to go on a limb here and say it is okay.

2. You mentioned earlier you screen against actors during interviews, but what if that is one of their major ECs (like enjoying partaking in art endeavors, like music and theatre)?

Thank you again!
 
cheesier said:
Are you saying that having a C or two on your transcript is a disqualifier at some schools? What if a high gpa was still maintained?
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I'm saying that a 3.4 science gpa is on the low side for some of the top tier schools. If that includes a bunch of C+ and C grades it might hurt your chances of getting an interview. That's all I was saying. If you have a C or two and your science gpa is 3.7 or better, you might be ok.
 
when you view an MCAT retake scores, what do you look for? How much of an improvement do you deem significant?
 
Wizrox said:
Before I start, I would just like to thank you for doing this. You are the best.

1. I know that doing EMT work is categorized as "Pre-hospital" care, but is it looked down upon if most of your clinical volunteering comes from this (even if you shadow multiple doctors or do other hospital volunteering where you don't see patients)?
Click to expand...

There are two kinds of clinical experience: the kind that puts you up close & personal with the sick and/or injured and the kind that puts you in the vicinity of physicians. Some activities are both. It is good to see what physicians do but it is also good to have had the experience of providing for the needs of the sick or injured.
2. You mentioned earlier you screen against actors during interviews, but what if that is one of their major ECs (like enjoying partaking in art endeavors, like music and theatre)?

Thank you again!
Click to expand...

We don't like people who are acting during their interview ("and playing the part of the perfect medical school appliant is Wizrox". We've no issues with collegiate thespians who want a career in medicine.
 
What makes a top tier school? (*USNews?)


Did you go to medical school?


Why is the process so competitive?


Where do you see the state of medicine in regards to admissions 5-10 years from now?


What would you change about the process as it stands?


How do you feel about match list, average step scores ect?
 
BiopsychStudent said:
For someone out of college two or three years before applying do you tend to look at their recent activities more-so than their college activities?

And do you have different extra-curricular expectations for a 24-year old working full time, for example, than a 21-year old who is a student?
Click to expand...

We look at everything.

What did they do and when did they do it? When did they stop? Why? Presuming someone with a f/t job has some free time, how does the person choose to spend it?
 
LizzyM said:
We look at everything.

What did they do and when did they do it? When did they stop? Why? Presuming someone with a f/t job has some free time, how does the person choose to spend it?
Click to expand...

Does that mean if I'm 8 years out of school when I apply I should list my college experience as well as what I've been doing lately?
 
At the end of the day,
How do you determine who to grant an acceptance to between Applicant X, and Applicant Y?

What are some major turn offs you see in applicants?

Why must an applicant be "interesting" to talk with?
What is wrong with a cookie cutter premed who is smart, hardworking, and passionate about medicine?


Once Lizzy M. leaves this thread, all hell will break lose haha.
Thank you for your endless replies.
 
Techmed07 said:
What makes a top tier school? (*USNews?)
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Look at what USNews measures: NIH funding, gpa and MCAT scores, number of applications to that school (more is better), stuff like that. I think it is bull**** but I play the game and I'm happy when my school has a good place on the list.
Did you go to medical school?
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No. But I've been teaching in one for ~20 years.
Why is the process so competitive?
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Because more than twice as many people apply to medical school as we have room for nationally. I think that this is because medicine pays well and offers job security. It is also prestigious, particularly in some ethnic enclaves.
Where do you see the state of medicine in regards to admissions 5-10 years from now?
Click to expand...
If physician prestige and income declines, I think we'll see fewer applicants doing it for the wrong reasons. Like a Cubs fan, I'm hopeful but not optimistic.
What would you change about the process as it stands?
Click to expand...
I'd make my school more like Michigan with more transparency regarding interview invites, etc.
How do you feel about match list, average step scores ect?
Click to expand...

Match list and average step scores play no role in med admissions so I have no opinion.
 
dmf2682 said:
Does that mean if I'm 8 years out of school when I apply I should list my college experience as well as what I've been doing lately?
Click to expand...

Up to 15 items. Academic honors and scholarships might go by the wayside along with making Eagle Scout. Pare it down but if you did something for more than a semester, you might want to list it, particularly if it involved responsibility (e.g. being an RA), or research (even if it was social science or humanities scholarly activity).
 
If something gets flagged on a background check, do students generally have a chance to explain themselves? From what I've heard, some folks have been unaware that a traffic violation they had was actually a misdemeanor.

Similarly, what about IAs? Do undergraduate institutions send a report regarding these to the med schools, or is it included with the official transcript, or what?

For some interview questions, it seems like there's no real "right" answer, like the 'what is the biggest problem with healthcare today?' questions. Are interviewers typically looking for a particular viewpoint, or that the applicant has some idea of the issue and can form a reasonable explanation for their thoughts?

Thanks!
 
CaliforniaAppli said:
At the end of the day,
How do you determine who to grant an acceptance to between Applicant X, and Applicant Y?
Click to expand...
We don't. It is up or down on each one individually, not one-on-one, head-to-head.
What are some major turn offs you see in applicants?
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Arrogance. Over-familiarity. (Unless someone says, "Please, call me Shirley", don't call someone twice your age by her first name.) Lack of self confidence. Nervousness that doesn't resolve with 10 minutes of pleasant conversation. Selfishness (in a collegiate bubble, has made no effort to help those in need outside their gates).
Why must an applicant be "interesting" to talk with?
Click to expand...
Because someone is going to have to eat lunch with them when the student is on clinical rotations. No one wants a boring M3 on their team.
What is wrong with a cookie cutter premed who is smart, hardworking, and passionate about medicine?
Click to expand...
I see several hundred of them in a cycle. Why is any one of them better than any of the other 200 I'll see this month? How should I choose?
Once Lizzy M. leaves this thread, all hell will break lose haha.
Thank you for your endless replies.
Click to expand...

And with that, I say "good night". See y'all later.
 
Perhaps you missed my question?

Assuming you work in the northeast..

How many applicants do you see from the southwest US? Do a lot of them stand a fair chance against applicants from northeast/ivys?
 
LizzyM said:
I'm saying that a 3.4 science gpa is on the low side for some of the top tier schools. If that includes a bunch of C+ and C grades it might hurt your chances of getting an interview. That's all I was saying. If you have a C or two and your science gpa is 3.7 or better, you might be ok.
Click to expand...

I didn't directly ask the question that prompted this response, but I did have a quick follow up.

My 3.4 is almost entirely due to a bunch of B+ grades. The lowest grade I have received is a B- (in physics 1) and I only have one of those so far.

Everything else has been in the B+ range, with some A-'s and Bs that evened out to a 3.4.

Is that different than having C+'s and A's balance out to a 3.4?
 
Hi LizzyM,

I was just wondering how important grade trends are. I know that upward trends are looked upon favorably, but what about slight downward trends? If someone started with a 4.0 his or her freshman year but have gotten a few A-'s/B+'s down the road (but never lower than a 3.7 in a semester), does that look bad or not a good as someone who has increased his or her GPA?

Thank you for taking the time to do this! SDN is obviously really appreciating it!
 
Hi Lizzy, I know you touched on the prior misdemeanor issue on the previous page, but I wanted to get your thoughts on a DWI. I got one seven years ago, and by the time im applying for med schoo, it will have been over a decade prior. I have searched this, but I never saw any responses from adcom members. That DWI greatly changed my life. Therefore, if I were to include this in my p/s and explained why and how it impacted my life and changed me into a better person, could I still be considered?

P.s.,immense thanks for doing this thread. 🙂
 
Is it unfavorable to have not done much the freshman year of college?
 
Although previous posts have thanked you multiple times for doing this thread, I feel that it could use another thank you. So..THANK YOU SO MUCH. You have been extremely insightful!

I know that you mentioned that one basically has no chance for admission into top-tier schools if there are a few Cs on his/her transcript (in my case, I have a couple of unfortunate C+s). Do schools (mainly schools such as yours) take into consideration extenuating circumstances that one might have encountered during those semesters in which bad grades were present? I know there is room to explain all of this in one's application but is an applicant automatically put in the reject pile or do adcoms take a holistic look at their application before rejecting an applicant?

Thank you!
 
Aww yea!! Finally the great LizzyM comes forth. My question is this:

When Thousands of applicants apply, how do you narrow down the people you give interview invites to. I know this varies from school to school, but just gimme a quick taste. Subsequently, how do you review those that receive an acceptance offer. Does the admissions committee sit down and look at each individual applicant again or turn to each other and say things like, "He sucks! Let's not take him."

Please LizzyM, give me great insight on this topic based on your experiences.
 
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