Ask the dark side anything

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I am afraid that The Economist made a mistake. There are four individual Chinese characters and the Roman scripts should be separated, My 2 cents.

Yes, but they're the Economist and they do what they want, and if you read it then you just do what they do and you get a certificate that entitles you to be smug about it. I don't make up the rules.

 

[arc5005]

1. How would you view someone who took half of their pre-reqs at a community college? What if that student was from Low SES or URM? Would that impact why the student had to take them at a CC?

2. How would you look at a low cGPA, say 3.2/3.2, but a higher sGPA like 3.5/3.6?

3. Would a higher MCAT score (>34) for a low-ses and/or URM make up for a low GPA like 3.3?

4. How heavy is the PS taken into account? Can an extremely well written PS be a game-changer, or does pretty much everyone have a good PS?

5. Interviews: How do you view people who are nice, but socially awkward? Like, you know they are nice, hard-working, driven, etc... but you can just tell that this individual is socially awkward?

 

[ChrisMack390]

I don't think a 3.3 is that low. Try 2.8.

Lol when people with 3.3 post on WAMC they are nearly always told not to apply MD.

 

[Med Ed]

Shouldn't be "Gao Fen Di Neng?"

Gaofen derail.

 

[stemingen]

Gaofen derail.

Is it that difficult to speak English properly?

 

[Med Ed]

1. How would you view someone who took half of their pre-reqs at a community college? What if that student was from Low SES or URM? Would that impact why the student had to take them at a CC?

The question isn't so much what happened at CC, it's what happened afterwards.

2. How would you look at a low cGPA, say 3.2/3.2, but a higher sGPA like 3.5/3.6?

That would be unusual. It's impossible to really say without looking at your transcripts, but having an AO GPA significantly lower than your sGPA would raise some eyebrows.

3. Would a higher MCAT score (>34) for a low-ses and/or URM make up for a low GPA like 3.3?

Get that score and we'll talk.

4. How heavy is the PS taken into account? Can an extremely well written PS be a game-changer, or does pretty much everyone have a good PS?

PS's are largely interchangeable and neutral. With extremely rare exception their only net effect is to hurt applicants.

5. Interviews: How do you view people who are nice, but socially awkward? Like, you know they are nice, hard-working, driven, etc... but you can just tell that this individual is socially awkward?

Depends on how I feel.

 

[ridethecliche]

It is done for sheer kicks, enhanced greatly by the amount of entitlement wafting from the students. Nothing excites me more than assigning six pages of reading, having the students work through 5-6 problems during an hour, and then asking them to turn in their answers by 5 pm, because half of them act like they are being ordered to dig their own mass grave. It's quite entertaining.

You would probably enjoy it more if you didn't assign any reading, had students do problems at home before they came to a mandatory class just to discuss the answers, and make them sit there instead of just collecting the answer sheets electronically and sending out an answer key.

 

[Thpinky]

Is doing an SMP a good idea if I have 3.84? I just don't know what to do with my gap year and at this point it seems like I will have to take one with only 1 II so far.

 

[stemingen]

Is doing an SMP a good idea if I have 3.84? I just don't know what to do with my gap year and at this point it seems like I will have to take one with only 1 II so far.

Get a real job and get paid

 

[Goro]

Do something this stupid and I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!

Is doing an SMP a good idea if I have 3.84? I just don't know what to do with my gap year and at this point it seems like I will have to take one with only 1 II so far.

 

[Thpinky]

Do something this stupid and I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!

lol point taken. No SMP for me then.

 

[Mad Jack]

Do you actually have cookies? I'm dying to know.

 

[BeachBaby]

Once invited to interview, is the MCAT no longer a factor?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Is doing an SMP a good idea if I have 3.84? I just don't know what to do with my gap year and at this point it seems like I will have to take one with only 1 II so far.

That would be insane...

 

[Med Ed]

Once invited to interview, is the MCAT no longer a factor?

There are a few schools with very high cutoffs and very high average metrics that will not consider the numbers after an II is made. But those are by far the exception.

 

[AlteredScale]

What do you think is the most pressing issue to date in regards to undergraduate medical education?

 

[Med Ed]

What do you think is the most pressing issue to date in regards to undergraduate medical education?

Excessive focused preparation for Step 1 in years 1 and 2. For years 3 and 4 I would say excessive applications submitted through ERAS. These two phenomena are related.

 

[AlteredScale]

Excessive focused preparation for Step 1 in years 1 and 2. For years 3 and 4 I would say excessive applications submitted through ERAS. These two phenomena are related.

Thanks for the response!

How do you feel about the shift to a 1.5 year preclinical curriculum? It would seem that such a change only adds more emphasis on step 1. At the same time, it also seems that students are being provided more independent pathways to choose how they are to approach the material.

Are ther any good journals you suggest that are to the likes of Academic Medicine?

 

[Thpinky]

Would it be a bad idea to add Drexel and Tulane to my school list now? Their deadline is not until a couple days and I'm feeling awfully anxious.

 

[Med Ed]

Thanks for the response!

How do you feel about the shift to a 1.5 year preclinical curriculum? It would seem that such a change only adds more emphasis on step 1. At the same time, it also seems that students are being provided more independent pathways to choose how they are to approach the material.

The trend towards 1.5 year preclinical curricula is mainly driven by the desire to get students into elective clerkships sooner, which in turn helps them in the match. Schools that have converted from 2 to 1.5 years have most often done it by eliminating redundancies, reducing gross anatomy time, and squeezing the traditional summer between M1 and M2. Otherwise the total number of contact hours is not very different. Overall I like the trend, although it does not fit every school and every learner.

The dirty secret of Step 1 is that most learners do not benefit from more than 4-6 weeks of focused preparation, although a subset do need additional time. The NBME has made available more diagnostic prep resources, so we have more tools at our disposal than ever before to predict individual risk and performance. You can get a great Step 1 score without ruining months of your life. I wish more medical students could internalize that reality.

Are ther any good journals you suggest that are to the likes of Academic Medicine?

Ac Med drives me nuts, although I can usually find a useful kernel or two per issue. I rely mainly on Pubmed and trolling the relevant primary literature to answer specific questions.

 

[Med Ed]

Would it be a bad idea to add Drexel and Tulane to my school list now? Their deadline is not until a couple days and I'm feeling awfully anxious.

Cooking meth is a bad idea. Applying to Drexel and Tulane at this hour is not a bad idea, it's just a waste of money.

 

[AlteredScale]

@Med Ed I was looking through the AMA's MedEd consortium and saw a few schools focused on integrating EMR into the curriculum. Is your school doing that as well? Also, with the addition of the 3-4 DO programs in the consortium, do you think that's a step towards the awareness on the AMA/AAMC side of the sometimes troubling and variable clinical training that is provided at DO schools?

 

[Med Ed]

@Med Ed I was looking through the AMA's MedEd consortium and saw a few schools focused on integrating EMR into the curriculum. Is your school doing that as well?

I do have some vicarious experience with this, although it is usually incorporated into the clinical skills component of M1/M2. In theory it is good to have some exposure to EMR's before hitting the wards, but how much, and at what cost, is a matter of debate.

Also, with the addition of the 3-4 DO programs in the consortium, do you think that's a step towards the awareness on the AMA/AAMC side of the sometimes troubling and variable clinical training that is provided at DO schools?

I believe it is more a reflection of the fact that allopathic schools do not have a monopoly on pushing the curricular envelope with concepts like competency-based education and longitudinal clinical tracks. At the end of the day everyone is coping with the same basic issues: more students, a desire to use less passive lecturing, and a limited number of quality clinical training sites. If osteopaic schools can figure out how to provide a good education with class sizes of 300 and mostly ambulatory, apprentice-style clerkships, I think the allopathic world should take note.

 

[AlteredScale]

I do have some vicarious experience with this, although it is usually incorporated into the clinical skills component of M1/M2. In theory it is good to have some exposure to EMR's before hitting the wards, but how much, and at what cost, is a matter of debate.



I believe it is more a reflection of the fact that allopathic schools do not have a monopoly on pushing the curricular envelope with concepts like competency-based education and longitudinal clinical tracks. At the end of the day everyone is coping with the same basic issues: more students, a desire to use less passive lecturing, and a limited number of quality clinical training sites. If osteopaic schools can figure out how to provide a good education with class sizes of 300 and mostly ambulatory, apprentice-style clerkships, I think the allopathic world should take note.

Thanks again for your response!

For ATSU-SOMA, essentially students stay at the main school for one year before heading off into Community Centers across the US. The immersion into various types of communities is what I think made it an attraction to the consortium. The only issue with this was that I spoke with a 4th year there and they said being so far away from the schools makes it very hard to navigate or troubleshoot if there are issues with the rotation.

For clerkship year and fourth year, how detailed is your school when it comes to evaluating the quality of the rotations? I know LCME standards state that essentially every type of patient and procedure the student will be exposed to is described but what are some other ways of evaluating the clinical experience?

Also, LCME seems to have student representation on the committee. COCA does not. What's the benefit of having student representation in the accrediting process and what would be a good way of expressing interest to have student representation in COCA?

 

[Med Ed]

Thanks again for your response!

For ATSU-SOMA, essentially students stay at the main school for one year before heading off into Community Centers across the US. The immersion into various types of communities is what I think made it an attraction to the consortium. The only issue with this was that I spoke with a 4th year there and they said being so far away from the schools makes it very hard to navigate or troubleshoot if there are issues with the rotation.

That can be a challenge under the best of circumstances. In the end nothing replaces a competent, dedicated, and adequately resourced support staff. I had a very traditional M3 experience, to the point of it being calcified. Troubleshooting meant stay out of trouble or you might face a firing squad.

For clerkship year and fourth year, how detailed is your school when it comes to evaluating the quality of the rotations? I know LCME standards state that essentially every type of patient and procedure the student will be exposed to is described but what are some other ways of evaluating the clinical experience?

That issue is a little outside my realm, but typically there is a review of student evaluations, including narrative comments, student logs to make sure the procedure/encounter list is reasonable, and shelf exam scores. It is generally easier to manage the quality of core clerkships rather than electives.

Also, LCME seems to have student representation on the committee. COCA does not. What's the benefit of having student representation in the accrediting process and what would be a good way of expressing interest to have student representation in COCA?

Large committees with expansive representation, like the LCME, are usually constructed that way to add legitimacy to the decisions that are rendered. Whether or not that is a primary driver of having students serve on the LCME I cannot say with certainty, but it is my presumption.

There are, of course, other benefits to student representation, something I know from my time as an adcom. They bring a different perspective to things, and it is good to give potential future leaders a chance to see what is behind the curtain.

To get COCA to do something similar, SOMA might try to organize a multi-school petition in favor of the idea, and then present it to the accrediting body as a win-win proposal. They may respond favorably to a calm, cohesive, reasoned approach.

 

[deleted738762]

Hi,
How would you view someone who works close to 20 hours per week but works in a family owned business through undergrad? I have to help my father but would this have any merit seeing my father owns it.
Thank you

 

[Goro]

If may chime in on my learned colleague's thread, your situation is very common. Having work experience is always good, and even better if you maintain high grades.

It is NOT an excuse for lacking all the other ECs you need, though.

Hi,
How would you view someone who works close to 20 hours per week but works in a family owned business through undergrad? I have to help my father but would this have any merit seeing my father owns it.
Thank you

 

[deleted738762]

If may chime in on my learned colleague's thread, your situation is very common. Having work experience is always good, and even better if you maintain high grades.

It is NOT an excuse for lacking all the other ECs you need, though.

Hi Goro,
I don't know what high grades one might need in my case, but I should be able to maintain a low 3.7ish GPA. I also do have EC's, such as soup kitchen, clinical volunteering, and shadowing of course. Thanks for answering the question, I was just skeptical because you cant ask family for LOR's, so I presumed the same would be true for working in a family business.

 

[Med Ed]

Hi Goro,
I don't know what high grades one might need in my case, but I should be able to maintain a low 3.7ish GPA. I also do have EC's, such as soup kitchen, clinical volunteering, and shadowing of course. Thanks for answering the question, I was just skeptical because you cant ask family for LOR's, so I presumed the same would be true for working in a family business.

I agree with Goro that your situation is not unusual. Many applicants have come through my committee that have reported significant, ongoing time commitments to family businesses. If the rest of your application looks good, I view it as positive indicator of your dedication and time management skills. If your GPA or EC's are a little thin, it is likewise easier to explain that in the context of working while going to school.

 

[deleted738762]

I agree with Goro that your situation is not unusual. Many applicants have come through my committee that have reported significant, ongoing time commitments to family businesses. If the rest of your application looks good, I view it as positive indicator of your dedication and time management skills. If your GPA or EC's are a little thin, it is likewise easier to explain that in the context of working while going to school.

Thank you,
Also how will they regulate I worked at my family business? because I can only reference my father. So I am afraid some adcoms might be skeptical about believing me. Which is understandable seeing as though it is a family business. But also depressing because of the time commitment I put into it.

 

[Med Ed]

Thank you,
Also how will they regulate I worked at my family business? because I can only reference my father. So I am afraid some adcoms might be skeptical about believing me. Which is understandable seeing as though it is a family business. But also depressing because of the time commitment I put into it.

You are over-thinking this. Just list it as an experience, reference your father as the contact if he is the appropriate person, and let it ride. Feel free to mention it in the PS if it makes sense in your larger narrative. Adcoms take a lot of things in AMCAS at face value, as nobody has the time or resources to verify everything. In essence you are assumed honest until proven otherwise, which is one of the reasons why IA's involving things like cheating are taken so seriously.

 

[geronimokid]

Somewhere I read on February 10th schools can see accepted students and where they are accepted. First is this information correct? And what, if anything would a SOM do with this intel?

 

[Med Ed]

Somewhere I read on February 10th schools can see accepted students and where they are accepted. First is this information correct? And what, if anything would a SOM do with this intel?

Yes, on February 10 the multi-accept list became available. A medical school must accept someone to see where else they have been accepted. It helps us to gauge who is likely to attend, which in turn lets optimize the number and timing of additional offers of acceptance. It also helps us target scholarship money where it will benefit us the most.