Ask the resident (previously ask the 4th year)

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So I'm gonna be starting DO School this fall. I keep getting this feeling that there is NO WAY my brain can hold as much information as its about to be subjected to. How did you feel before starting? I keep hearing that its nothing like I've ever experienced before. Is there any way to mentally prepare myself for the journey? Any kind of inspirational sayings or readings you've used to prepare yourself or keep a level head under stress?
 
So I'm gonna be starting DO School this fall. I keep getting this feeling that there is NO WAY my brain can hold as much information as its about to be subjected to. How did you feel before starting? I keep hearing that its nothing like I've ever experienced before. Is there any way to mentally prepare myself for the journey? Any kind of inspirational sayings or readings you've used to prepare yourself or keep a level head under stress?
Not really. You grovel and celebrate with your new friends. They're going through it with you.

You can't really prepare for it since there's nothing like it that we've done in the past.

You'll be fine. You'll adjust. For me the biggest "prize" was at least being able to think, "Hey third year will come soon enough." Third year has its own issues, but at least there's medicine going on.
 
Some PCOM related questions:

What are some of the rotation sites that were especially good? Which are ones that are notorious and should be avoided?

How good was the clinical education in your 3rd and 4th years at PCOM?
 
Some PCOM related questions:

What are some of the rotation sites that were especially good? Which are ones that are notorious and should be avoided?

How good was the clinical education in your 3rd and 4th years at PCOM?

Its hard to comment on the rotation sites because I haven't been to all of them. Some respected Pennsylvania sites include Lankenau, Lehigh Valley Hospital, Geisinger, the UPMC system among others.

Your clinical education is what you make of it. When you apply for rotations you definitely should get the opinions of upperclassmen to get an idea of good and bad sites.
 
I am a junior in undergrad. My dream has always been to a doctor but sometimes I underestimate myself. Currently have a 3.5 (got 3.9 last semester and looking at the same for this semester) I am shadowing a DO this summer and have volunteered in a hospital for ~100 hours. Is it as hard to do well as people say it is? if you could go back would you do it differently? Is there any hard feelings towards DO vs MD? Do you have any advice for me?
 
Did your advisor at med school help you screen for residency programs?

Also, in your opinion, if all else being equal, how/why did one choose between/over an AOA residency vs. ACGME residency in overlapping fields like IM or EM?

PCOM didn't give me a faculty advisor. However, now it seems they are pairing students with faculty so students can ask questions. Before I applied for FM, I met with our OPTI (hospital network) director since she had been an FM PD before joining us to get the necessary information.

I applied AOA but am going to a dually accredited program. The ACGME accreditation requires more OB than the AOA for FM and I liked that because its an interest of mine.

If your top programs are dually accredited or the majority of them are AOA it makes sense as a DO to apply through the AOA match since these residencies will want to take MDs through the ACGME match.
 
I am a junior in undergrad. My dream has always been to a doctor but sometimes I underestimate myself. Currently have a 3.5 (got 3.9 last semester and looking at the same for this semester) I am shadowing a DO this summer and have volunteered in a hospital for ~100 hours. Is it as hard to do well as people say it is? if you could go back would you do it differently? Is there any hard feelings towards DO vs MD? Do you have any advice for me?

If you put your mind to it you will do well. If you notice you're struggling you need to seek out help ASAP in order to avoid possible problems in the future that can't be fixed.

If I could do it differently I probably would have tried to figure out I was going to do medicine going into college and then pick a cheaper place to go.

The old guard MDs have some prejudice against DOs as do some MD residency programs. Most people I've met have no issues.

As far as advice, I'd read these forums. That's all you need.
 
Joining this awesome thread. be back later to read 🙂
 
Great thread by Bacchus and well-deserving of a bump. I'm a 4th year heading into ACGME EM and will answer questions as well if anyone still has any.
 
How does a DO student decide if she/he should go into the osteopathic or allopathic match? Will this even matter for those of us starting this fall because by the time we apply many people think we will have a combined match?
 
How does a DO student decide if she/he should go into the osteopathic or allopathic match? Will this even matter for those of us starting this fall because by the time we apply many people think we will have a combined match?

The combined match isn't set in stone, so I wouldn't count on it.

If you want to do something surgical you should probably focus your efforts on osteopathic programs, especially if you are interested in orthopedics, urology, ENT, neurosurgery, or eyeballs. If you're not interested in surgery, then just apply to whichever programs, Acgme/AOA, that tickle your fancy. Many applicants apply to both matches and kind of "test the waters" in the acgme match before they commit their efforts.

TAKE THE USMLE. People will tell you that you don't need to take it to match at Acgme programs, which is true, but it's a lot easier to match if you do take it, and your opportunities will be vastly greater if you take usmle and do well.

If you take the usmle and do about average for your speciality of choice (except the surgical subspecalties) and you are not geographically restricted, then I wouldn't worry about matching in the acgme match.
 
Will this even matter for those of us starting this fall because by the time we apply many people think we will have a combined match?

Hard to say. I'm not the most up to date with the ongoing policy discussions but as far as I know, there isn't a definite start date for the match merger. The last time I read about the matter I remember seeing a 2015-2017 proposed period.

How does a DO student decide if she/he should go into the osteopathic or allopathic match?

It sortof depends on the specialty you're applying to, the number of available positions and where you get interviews. A DO student pursuing ENT is probably most likely to enter the osteopathic match because their options on the allopathic side are likely to be limited with respect to receiving interviews. A DO student pursuing PM&R is probably most likely to enter the allopathic match because the number of osteopathic PM&R positions is significantly less when compared to the allopathic side. For some specialties like family medicine or internal medicine, there are enough programs on both sides such that you have enough opportunities to pick and chose your program depending on what you want (academic versus community focus, etc.). In this instance, people usually enter whichever match their preferred programs participate in. For EM, all osteopathic programs are 4 years and about 75%-80% of allopathic programs are 3 years (with the remainder being 4 years). I auditioned at and was primarily considering an osteopathic program early on in the application process due to personal reasons that would have tied me to a certain geographic area. By the time rank list submissions were due, I no longer had those restrictions and opted for the allopathic match.
 
I'm a 4th year from LECOM-E who matched Army ortho so if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.
 
I'm a 4th year from LECOM-E who matched Army ortho so if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.

I'm assuming you went the PBL route? If so, how do you feel it prepared you? Did you have ample time for step studying? Are they getting better with rotations or are you pretty much on your own? If you did rotations in the area, how did you like them?

Sorry for all the questions. Originally from PA and thinking of returning. Thanks for offering to do this!
 
I'm assuming you went the PBL route? If so, how do you feel it prepared you? Did you have ample time for step studying? Are they getting better with rotations or are you pretty much on your own? If you did rotations in the area, how did you like them?

Sorry for all the questions. Originally from PA and thinking of returning. Thanks for offering to do this!

I was LDP. I felt very prepared for boards and rotations. We had about 6 weeks of good board study time, but I started prepping in January. I wanted to get through one pass of my sources (FA, Goljan, BRS Phys) by the beginning of March with a 75:25 split of my study time for classes and boards. Once March hit, I shifted it closer to 30:70 classes to boards which got me through another pass of the material by April. Come April my focus was entirely on boards. I was able to make 5 passes through the material by the time I took COMLEX at the end of May. PM irJanus for more helpful advice. He's a buddy of mine who was PBL.

Rotations were completely set up on our own. We were given a list of affiliate hospitals and told to pick within our groups. I did a 13 in Binghamton, NY and enjoyed it. It sounds like LECOM is moving toward all students doing a 13 (doing all core rotations at one hospital). I didn't do any rotations in Erie, luckily. I did do a radiology rotation at Pinnacle in Harrisburg which was a joke (rotation, not hospital).

Plan on staying in the Army for an extended period--or just do your time and get out?

No idea. I owe 4 years to the government. I am going to wait and see what the civilian sector and military sector is like in about 7-8 years. No point in worrying about it now since it's so far away and things can change. Some days I think I'll make it a career, others I feel like just doing 4 and getting out.
 
Fourth year from KCOM going into ACGME FM and will answer questions too if anyone has one.

Congrats to everyone, we made it!! 🙂
 
Fourth year from KCOM going into ACGME FM and will answer questions too if anyone has one.

Congrats to everyone, we made it!! 🙂

how many students from your class do you know are pursuing competitive surgical specialties such as ortho, optho, ENT, Uro?
 
Fourth year from KCOM going into ACGME FM and will answer questions too if anyone has one.

Congrats to everyone, we made it!! 🙂

Where did you do your rotations and what do you know about the 3 Utah rotation sites? (I know they're pretty much entirely preceptor based)
 
how many students from your class do you know are pursuing competitive surgical specialties such as ortho, optho, ENT, Uro?

From our self reported class match list, not the entire class:

Anesthesia ACGME -9, AOA - 4
EM ACGME - 8 , AOA - 6, Military - 1, Dual - 1
ENT ACGME - 1, AOA - 1
FM ACGME - 14, AOA - 8, Military - 4, Dual - 11
Gen Surg - ACGME - 2, AOA - 4
IM ACGME - 10, AOA - 2, Military - 4, Dual - 2
NMM AOA - 1
OB/GYN ACGME - 2, Military - 3
Ophtho ACGME - 1, AOA - 1
Ortho AOA - 4, Military - 1

Path ACGME - 1
Peds ACGME - 8, Dual - 2, Military - 2
PMR ACGME - 2, AOA - 1
Psych ACGME - 2, Military - 1
Rads ACGME - 3, AOA - 1, Military - 1
Uro Military - 1
Plus a handful of TY for those going into Derm/unmatched/etc

And yes, 50% of the class entered the MD match and 50% were AOA & Military
 
Where did you do your rotations and what do you know about the 3 Utah rotation sites? (I know they're pretty much entirely preceptor based)

I rotated in Michigan and loved it. I know little to nothing about Utah, sorry!
 
Is it more common for DO students to go for the military match? Is that many military matches (based on that match list) normal?

*I am new don't hate me 🙂
 
I'm a 4th year from LECOM-E who matched Army ortho so if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.

Was it difficult matching ortho in the military? I know it's a broad question, but what about GMO tours and the like? You didn't have to do one of those I'm assuming.
Just signed up for the AF HPSP here. Starting at western next month. Possibly interested in a surgical specialty and I'm just wondering how difficult it is to go straight into one without doing a GMO or earning "points" to have a better chance of matching my preferred specialty. Thanks
 
Is it more common for DO students to go for the military match? Is that many military matches (based on that match list) normal?

*I am new don't hate me 🙂
I don't think its necessarily more common. With that said, there are a fair number of people in my class going the military route.
 
Was it difficult matching ortho in the military? I know it's a broad question, but what about GMO tours and the like? You didn't have to do one of those I'm assuming.
Just signed up for the AF HPSP here. Starting at western next month. Possibly interested in a surgical specialty and I'm just wondering how difficult it is to go straight into one without doing a GMO or earning "points" to have a better chance of matching my preferred specialty. Thanks

It was tough for sure. Last year only 1 DO matched Army ortho. This year there were at least 4 (3 in the program I'm going to). I know 2 of the 3 and they were stellar. Good board scores, hard working, personable, did well on auditions.

One thing that helped us was taking at least USMLE step 2 CK. I noticed an interesting trend at some programs. The DOs who matched right out of med school all had taken USMLE. Those who didnt took COMLEX only. So if you want to increase your chances, take USMLE. It puts you on a similar level to MDs when they are comparing applicants.

I know quite a few residents who did GMO tours before matching. It definitely increases your chances, although I can't speak for the AF. I would've gone this route had I not matched. I would do your best to study hard in school, do well on boards and rotations and shoot for matching as an MS4.
 
It was tough for sure. Last year only 1 DO matched Army ortho. This year there were at least 4 (3 in the program I'm going to). I know 2 of the 3 and they were stellar. Good board scores, hard working, personable, did well on auditions.

One thing that helped us was taking at least USMLE step 2 CK. I noticed an interesting trend at some programs. The DOs who matched right out of med school all had taken USMLE. Those who didnt took COMLEX only. So if you want to increase your chances, take USMLE. It puts you on a similar level to MDs when they are comparing applicants.

I know quite a few residents who did GMO tours before matching. It definitely increases your chances, although I can't speak for the AF. I would've gone this route had I not matched. I would do your best to study hard in school, do well on boards and rotations and shoot for matching as an MS4.

Thanks for the info. Good stuff, especially knowing about USMLE vs COMLEX. I had been told (mostly by recruiters and we all know how good their word is🙂) that it makes no difference if you take USMLE or not.
Did you do anything else to make yourself more desirable as an applicant? Auditions at the military program you wanted to match to? I'm assuming you did, but how long/many were those rotations and when in your schooling did you do them? Is it hard to get rotations at specific sites/programs?
I don't mean to derail the thread with military specific stuff so feel free to PM if you'd prefer, but since you seem to be willing I'd love to pick your brain. 😉
 
Really? I've never hear of this occurring even infrequently.

Sure it wasn't military?

100% sure as she is a close friend. And a straight baller, worked her tail off. Most important thing...she made it a point to meet the PD and he remembered her for that.
 
Is it more common for DO students to go for the military match? Is that many military matches (based on that match list) normal?

*I am new don't hate me 🙂

I know that KCOM has one of the higher percentages of Military. Not sure why.
 
100% sure as she is a close friend. And a straight baller, worked her tail off. Most important thing...she made it a point to meet the PD and he remembered her for that.

Wow. That's awesome. Much respect for her.
 
Thanks for the info. Good stuff, especially knowing about USMLE vs COMLEX. I had been told (mostly by recruiters and we all know how good their word is🙂) that it makes no difference if you take USMLE or not.
Did you do anything else to make yourself more desirable as an applicant?

Did well through pre-clinicals, was in the top quartile of my class, did well on boards, excelled on clinical rotations especially auditions. Participated in a couple research projects. Got along with the residents, worked hard, took call, volunteered for as many chances I could to showcase my knowledge (presented the anatomy of the shoulder on a cadaver to all the residents/attendings, led journal club, participated in OITE questions). I also did a very good presentation that started a good debate about the topic I chose.

Auditions at the military program you wanted to match to? I'm assuming you did, but how long/many were those rotations and when in your schooling did you do them?

I auditioned at 3 programs but matched at one I didn't rotate at. Military programs are a small world and most of the PDs are close friends. It helps to have a couple be in your corner and go to bat for you. It's how I matched where I did.

Is it hard to get rotations at specific sites/programs?
I don't mean to derail the thread with military specific stuff so feel free to PM if you'd prefer, but since you seem to be willing I'd love to pick your brain. 😉

It's not hard to get the rotations. Just have to email the coordinator to set it up.
 
Did well through pre-clinicals, was in the top quartile of my class, did well on boards, excelled on clinical rotations especially auditions. Participated in a couple research projects. Got along with the residents, worked hard, took call, volunteered for as many chances I could to showcase my knowledge (presented the anatomy of the shoulder on a cadaver to all the residents/attendings, led journal club, participated in OITE questions). I also did a very good presentation that started a good debate about the topic I chose.



I auditioned at 3 programs but matched at one I didn't rotate at. Military programs are a small world and most of the PDs are close friends. It helps to have a couple be in your corner and go to bat for you. It's how I matched where I did.



It's not hard to get the rotations. Just have to email the coordinator to set it up.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!!
 
I'm not the best with PMs and I've been having several users ask me questions through them. Sorry to anyone I did not reply to. I'm going to bump this and also answer from the POV of a resident at this point.
 
I'm not the best with PMs and I've been having several users ask me questions through them. Sorry to anyone I did not reply to. I'm going to bump this and also answer from the POV of a resident at this point.
You have a lot of fancy badges now.
 
I'm not the best with PMs and I've been having several users ask me questions through them. Sorry to anyone I did not reply to. I'm going to bump this and also answer from the POV of a resident at this point.

Could you describe a day in the life of an FM resident? In terminology for the uninitiated? (When I read residency reviews and such I only get like half of the terminology they use.)
 
Do you feel as though PCOM adequately prepared you for boards? Did you have enough time for uninterrupted studying?
 
From our self reported class match list, not the entire class:

Anesthesia ACGME -9, AOA - 4
EM ACGME - 8 , AOA - 6, Military - 1, Dual - 1
ENT ACGME - 1, AOA - 1
FM ACGME - 14, AOA - 8, Military - 4, Dual - 11
Gen Surg - ACGME - 2, AOA - 4
IM ACGME - 10, AOA - 2, Military - 4, Dual - 2
NMM AOA - 1
OB/GYN ACGME - 2, Military - 3
Ophtho ACGME - 1, AOA - 1
Ortho AOA - 4, Military - 1

Path ACGME - 1
Peds ACGME - 8, Dual - 2, Military - 2
PMR ACGME - 2, AOA - 1
Psych ACGME - 2, Military - 1
Rads ACGME - 3, AOA - 1, Military - 1
Uro Military - 1
Plus a handful of TY for those going into Derm/unmatched/etc

And yes, 50% of the class entered the MD match and 50% were AOA & Military

That is a freakin' solid match list. Well done.
 
Could you describe a day in the life of an FM resident? In terminology for the uninitiated? (When I read residency reviews and such I only get like half of the terminology they use.)

FM residency is a mix of inpatient and outpatient rotations and electives. I'll give you my day to day as an intern. It does not vary much as you progress, except as you move through the residency you get more clinic days and less time to see patients per visit.

Typically, during most rotations, you have a half day of clinic where you see patients in the office. When I started, I would see acute visits but now have started to collect a variety of chronic management patients (HTN, DM, lipids, etc.). When I started, I got 1 hour per patient. Currently I have 40 minutes a patient. This change was made 1 month in. Once the new year comes, I believe we get decreased to 30 minutes and then finally 20 minutes when the year ends and we become a second year. Becoming a second year, I believe you have 3 half day sessions and as a senior you have 5 half day sessions in clinic.

In addition to clinic, we have an academic day which is a half day. This is our teaching time where we have lectures. There is usually a central theme for the day. For example, tomorrow's theme is psychiatry. We also occasionally do evidence based medicine reviews during this time and have a procedure workshop once a month. The last procedure workshop took the half day and was OB/GYN related: colposcopies, IUD insertions, endometrial biopsies with supporting lectures.

When you're on the hospital service, you don't have clinic at all. When you're on surgery, your clinic day is different than the other interns because of the surgeon's schedule.

As far as rotations go, my EM rotation was easy. I did 12 ten hour shifts. No problems there. Surgery was a bit more hectic because there was a lot of clinic time and OR time. On EM my hours usually were 7-5 but on surgery can be 6-6 or 6-7 depending on the day. On service you're scheduled for 7-7. On OB you're scheduled 6-6.

I have call. Some months like EM and peds I have one call every weekend because of the way scheduling works. Other rotations I don't have many if any calls.

Its not bad. Its definitely doable. I still get plenty of time to hang out with hometown friends and go to the gym.
 
Do you feel as though PCOM adequately prepared you for boards? Did you have enough time for uninterrupted studying?

I don't know the resources PCOM is providing at this time for the boards, but the preparation materials we were provided were not good. I know a lot of people used loan money and bought Doctors in Training or Boards Boot Camp.
 
FM residency is a mix of inpatient and outpatient rotations and electives. I'll give you my day to day as an intern. It does not vary much as you progress, except as you move through the residency you get more clinic days and less time to see patients per visit.

Typically, during most rotations, you have a half day of clinic where you see patients in the office. When I started, I would see acute visits but now have started to collect a variety of chronic management patients (HTN, DM, lipids, etc.). When I started, I got 1 hour per patient. Currently I have 40 minutes a patient. This change was made 1 month in. Once the new year comes, I believe we get decreased to 30 minutes and then finally 20 minutes when the year ends and we become a second year. Becoming a second year, I believe you have 3 half day sessions and as a senior you have 5 half day sessions in clinic.

In addition to clinic, we have an academic day which is a half day. This is our teaching time where we have lectures. There is usually a central theme for the day. For example, tomorrow's theme is psychiatry. We also occasionally do evidence based medicine reviews during this time and have a procedure workshop once a month. The last procedure workshop took the half day and was OB/GYN related: colposcopies, IUD insertions, endometrial biopsies with supporting lectures.

When you're on the hospital service, you don't have clinic at all. When you're on surgery, your clinic day is different than the other interns because of the surgeon's schedule.

As far as rotations go, my EM rotation was easy. I did 12 ten hour shifts. No problems there. Surgery was a bit more hectic because there was a lot of clinic time and OR time. On EM my hours usually were 7-5 but on surgery can be 6-6 or 6-7 depending on the day. On service you're scheduled for 7-7. On OB you're scheduled 6-6.

I have call. Some months like EM and peds I have one call every weekend because of the way scheduling works. Other rotations I don't have many if any calls.

Its not bad. Its definitely doable. I still get plenty of time to hang out with hometown friends and go to the gym.

Thanks for the info!
 
I got here at 430 and probably won't be home until 9. Sad face.
 
Cliquesh and/or Bacchus:

Has the "novelty" of being a physician wore off and you are just going to work? How has the learning curve been progressing and are you happy to be around your peers? Do you feel like you have a lot to prove?
 
Cliquesh and/or Bacchus:

Has the "novelty" of being a physician wore off and you are just going to work? How has the learning curve been progressing and are you happy to be around your peers? Do you feel like you have a lot to prove?

I enjoy, but have lost some of the novelty. I've started answering phonecalls with my first name and talking to my patients using my first name. I'm over the "dr." tag.

The learning curve was steep because there was so much administrative stuff you don't learn in medical school. I'm still working on this curve because I haven't had a lot of inpatient time. I'm also working on not getting freak out over every little thing.

I do sometimes feel like I have a lot to prove, but that's my personality.
 
Cliquesh and/or Bacchus:

Has the "novelty" of being a physician wore off and you are just going to work? How has the learning curve been progressing and are you happy to be around your peers? Do you feel like you have a lot to prove?

No, not yet. I'm learning new stuff everyday and seeing cases I only read about in medical school. Eventually, in like 10 years, I'm sure everything will become pretty mundane and it will be like any other job.

The learning curve is pretty steep. I went from small community hospitals (200-500 beds) to a 1500+ bed hospital. The cases here are significantly more complicated than what I experienced in medical school. With that said, however, I'm doing completely fine.

All of the residents are cool. Most of the attendings are cool; some are jerks, but that is how it is anywhere.

Yea, I feel like I have stuff to prove, but that's me.

What specialty are you in?

Anesthesia, but I'm on a surgery rotation at the moment. Surgery is horrible. I'm still at the hospital 🙁

My anesthesia rotations are 6am to 3pm.
 
No, not yet. I'm learning new stuff everyday and seeing cases I only read about in medical school. Eventually, in like 10 years, I'm sure everything will become pretty mundane and it will be like any other job.

The learning curve is pretty steep. I went from small community hospitals (200-500 beds) to a 1500+ bed hospital. The cases here are significantly more complicated than what I experienced in medical school. With that said, however, I'm doing completely fine.

All of the residents are cool. Most of the attendings are cool; some are jerks, but that is how it is anywhere.

Yea, I feel like I have stuff to prove, but that's me.



Anesthesia, but I'm on a surgery rotation at the moment. Surgery is horrible. I'm still at the hospital 🙁

My anesthesia rotations are 6am to 3pm.
My surgery rotation is better than your surgery rotation 😛. Although I almost had a stick today 😡
 
Do you miss medical school? And

While you were in med school did you ever miss college?
I miss my friends from medical school. I don't see them nearly as often as I used to. We text, but even with that we don't communicate daily because by the time you realize you didn't text them you are summoned with a million other things to do and forget that you thought about texting them because you had forgotten.

I was fortunate in medical school to have a lot of my college friends around. I didn't switch cities for medical school and a lot of my friends were in 6 year programs so I go to see them.
 
No, not yet. I'm learning new stuff everyday and seeing cases I only read about in medical school. Eventually, in like 10 years, I'm sure everything will become pretty mundane and it will be like any other job.

The learning curve is pretty steep. I went from small community hospitals (200-500 beds) to a 1500+ bed hospital. The cases here are significantly more complicated than what I experienced in medical school. With that said, however, I'm doing completely fine.

All of the residents are cool. Most of the attendings are cool; some are jerks, but that is how it is anywhere.

Yea, I feel like I have stuff to prove, but that's me.



Anesthesia, but I'm on a surgery rotation at the moment. Surgery is horrible. I'm still at the hospital 🙁

My anesthesia rotations are 6am to 3pm.

You certainly make a good case for going big for residency.
 
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