aspect of preventive medicine?

[Lady Tokimi]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Can anyone help me with this?? can you explain aspects of osteopathic medicine, such as self healing and preventative medicine.

 

[Static Line]

Simple- it is something I believe in 100%. Get the body functioning in a state of optimum health, and many of the illnesses that people face will not have to be met with a barage of antibiotics and other medicines, many of which are also harmful and poisionous to the body. The body has an inherent immune system that should allow it to heal itself if it functioning at its best. It's a great concept and idea. The problem is, many people are not willing to adopt such a healthy lifestyle that requires this optimum state of health. Hopefully, as a future physician, I will be able to influence some of my patients to live a healthy lifestyle. Yes, medicines are needed, but not to the extent they are being prescribed today. It is really because many people are lazy, fat, undisciplined, and out of shape that we have what we have with medicine today.

 

[Daddydoc]

You said that very well. That is also one reason why healthcare costs are rising so much. If people would take proper care of themselves, it would prevent much damage to their bodies later on down the road.

 

[deadseafishing]

true. i completely agree. but not everyone can afford to 'live' healthy (as weird as that sounds). look at the price of mcdonalds, and the price of organic fruits and vegies, for example. i think there are people sometimes are so immeresed in a lifestyle, or are just living under certain economic circumstaces that prevent them from eating right and/or does not permit them to take time out of their work schedule to go and excersize, for example. the issue of preventive medicine thus becomes intertwined with socio-economic class, dont u think?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

true. i completely agree. but not everyone can afford to 'live' healthy (as weird as that sounds). look at the price of mcdonalds, and the price of organic fruits and vegies, for example. i think there are people sometimes are so immeresed in a lifestyle, or are just living under certain economic circumstaces that prevent them from eating right and/or does not permit them to take time out of their work schedule to go and excersize, for example. the issue of preventive medicine thus becomes intertwined with socio-economic class, dont u think?

that's a good point, which i think is why obesity has some correlation with poverty. honestly, i don't have enough money to buy all organic produce and even to buy as much produce as i'd like and won't until i get through my residency. there are healthy cheap stables like potatoes, brown rice and dried beans, but fruit and veggies ain't cheap. white bread, general mac and cheese, ramen, mcdonalds, etc. are all the cheapest foods, and if you're really poor, i guess it's conceivable that you'd be stuck eating that stuff.

also, though, nutritional education is a big, big issue and woefully lacking. one cool thing about being a primary care physician is that you can give your patients some tips on healthy eating, and they might just listen to you. sadly enough, i think most doctors are too apathetic to bother to talk to their patients about the importance of healthy living.

 

[FutureDocDO]

true. i completely agree. but not everyone can afford to 'live' healthy (as weird as that sounds). look at the price of mcdonalds, and the price of organic fruits and vegies, for example. i think there are people sometimes are so immeresed in a lifestyle, or are just living under certain economic circumstaces that prevent them from eating right and/or does not permit them to take time out of their work schedule to go and excersize, for example. the issue of preventive medicine thus becomes intertwined with socio-economic class, dont u think?

True but you can help to a certain extent. I see a lot of backyard go to waste. Is it so hard to plant a fruit tree or two and let nature take care of it? Is it so hard to plant veggies in your own backyard? You can save a lot of money by planting your own greens and fruits. Just a thought. My folks do it every summer <we live in the north>.

 

[Daddydoc]

Many times people use money as an excuse, but they waste a lot of money on much more expensive things (alcohol, cigarettes) but they are unwilling to spend money on things to take care of themselves or their children.

 

[deadseafishing]

yea definitely people use exuses- like alchol and cigarettes, but i think hopefully as a primary care docs we can help them get out of the habit of consuming so much alchol and smoking. (easier said than done- not sure how u can really convince someone to stop smoking if they dont want to at all?)

also some people don't have backyards...but yea if they did, they should totally plant fruits and vegies 😉

i think it might get discouraging at one pt as a doctor when u can offer such simple advice like eating right, but for some reason or another the patient can't afford to do so...what would u do then?

 

[Lady Tokimi]

Many times people use money as an excuse, but they waste a lot of money on much more expensive things (alcohol, cigarettes) but they are unwilling to spend money on things to take care of themselves or their children.

Well, the people who are spending it on alcohol and cigarettes dont really care about their health to begin with.......but i do agree, some people are too materialistic and would rather spend money on clothings or what not rather than on healthy food.

Another thing, studies have shown that obesity does not correlate with poverty.....rich people are gettin "big" as well......though you would tend to see it more in the poor.

 

[EastWestN2grt]

that's a good point, which i think is why obesity has some correlation with poverty.

also, though, nutritional education is a big, big issue and woefully lacking. one cool thing about being a primary care physician is that you can give your patients some tips on healthy eating, and they might just listen to you. sadly enough, i think most doctors are too apathetic to bother to talk to their patients about the importance of healthy living.

IMO a weakness in DO curriculum is lack of training in nutrional therapies. Because most DOs practice as primary care physicians, and because obesity is the biggest(no pun intended)epidemic facing our country 🙂 , DOs should take the lead and really incorporate nutritional education into the curriculum allowing the profession to impart the knowledge onto the masses. It would also be an extra tool to differentiate the profession from MDs.

By the way, a great resource for anyone interested in incorporating nutritional therapies into their future practices, is The Institute of Functional Medicine, a great way for docs to learn about nutrition and use it in practice.

Ironically, throughout history and in many third world countries today, poverty and obesity were not linked, but instead due to a limited intake of 'rich-fatty' foods, the poor were traditionally not likely to be obese compared to their rich countrymen. Did some of you ever wonder why many paintings from the European renaissance contain many overweight women. The simple answer is that being overweight meant you were eating the 'best foods' a sign of wealth and so an overweight woman was an ideal woman. 😉

 

[EastWestN2grt]

Simple- it is something I believe in 100%. Get the body functioning in a state of optimum health, and many of the illnesses that people face will not have to be met with a barage of antibiotics and other medicines, many of which are also harmful and poisionous to the body. The body has an inherent immune system that should allow it to heal itself if it functioning at its best. It's a great concept and idea. The problem is, many people are not willing to adopt such a healthy lifestyle that requires this optimum state of health. Hopefully, as a future physician, I will be able to influence some of my patients to live a healthy lifestyle. Yes, medicines are needed, but not to the extent they are being prescribed today. It is really because many people are lazy, fat, undisciplined, and out of shape that we have what we have with medicine today.

Excellent post.....!!

 

[djnels01]

Excellent post.....!!

I agree, it's so true in our American society today!

This is by far the best thread I've read on SDN... I know that when interview time comes around, and I get asked by adcoms about a major health care problem today, I will talk about the exact issues argued here. Not because I saw them here but because I too have felt this way, ever since high school.

Isn't it fascinating how we as Americans want everything as quickly as possible, with the least amount of work involved? Why do people insist on riding escalators and elevators in malls and apartment buildings instead of walking? Why do people resort to fat blockers and metabolic enhancers - and even liposuction - when a proper diet and exercise program could (in most cases) help people to lose excess weight? Because we Americans have become lazy and impatient. We want instant gratification, and we are willing to pay high costs (monetary or otherwise) to ensure this.

I know that if (or WHEN) I become a doc I will emphasize the importance of leading a healthy lifestyle to my patients, and the obvious benefits of such a lifestyle.

Great stuff guys & gals, keep up the good work 🙂

 

[beastmaster]

Why do people resort to fat blockers and metabolic enhancers

I've worked with the advertising and research teams behind similar products.

Their effectiveness aside, our marketing teams' powers of persuasion are beyond your comprehension!

 

[cfdavid]

that's a good point, which i think is why obesity has some correlation with poverty. honestly, i don't have enough money to buy all organic produce and even to buy as much produce as i'd like and won't until i get through my residency. there are healthy cheap stables like potatoes, brown rice and dried beans, but fruit and veggies ain't cheap. white bread, general mac and cheese, ramen, mcdonalds, etc. are all the cheapest foods, and if you're really poor, i guess it's conceivable that you'd be stuck eating that stuff.

also, though, nutritional education is a big, big issue and woefully lacking. one cool thing about being a primary care physician is that you can give your patients some tips on healthy eating, and they might just listen to you. sadly enough, i think most doctors are too apathetic to bother to talk to their patients about the importance of healthy living.

Yes, it's true that processed foods tend to be less expensive, but the price arguement is weak. Education, maybe, but there are plenty of lower cost foods that, when eaten in moderation, will allow for a healthy lifestyle.

Perhaps a Big Mac runs just a few bucks, but so does a can of tuna.

 

[djnels01]

Yes, it's true that processed foods tend to be less expensive, but the price arguement is weak. Education, maybe, but there are plenty of lower cost foods that, when eaten in moderation, will allow for a healthy lifestyle.

Perhaps a Big Mac runs just a few bucks, but so does a can of tuna.

I agree cfdavid, but could you also say that access to education is also dependant on income, and therefore only those that can afford an education (beyond public high school let's say) are able to reap the benefits of a healthy lifestyle?

This could possibly, albeit indirectly, make a stronger case for a correlation between poverty and health concerns like obesity. I do agree, however, that there are plenty of upper class people in America that also have problems, so one would argue that they DO have access to education but either refuse to use it or don't get it or whatever.

 

[Static Line]

I didn't think I'd post again on this topic. I have to though. I don't know if any of you have ever worked a blue collar job as a career or for what length of time you may have. Most of you sound like you have gone straight through college from HS and now want medicine. That' fine, nothing wrong with that. At least you have your head screwed on younger rather than waiting a few years like I did.

I would argue that the health of Americans at large doesn't have much to do with education or money. I was a paramedic for 10 years. I have picked up plenty of fat rich, educated people. I know some grossly fat physicians and lawyers. All this talk of correlations and studies (especially the PC talk) make me laugh. You can make a study say what you want it to say. I have been in the Army, I was a professional firefighter, a paramedic, as well as having maintained several other odds and ends jobs. In my opinion, people for the most part are all the same, no matter the socioeconomic background. Those who care about themselves, show it; and those who don't, don't. Many folks just don't care. They are content with their life, and their weekend boats, or their drinking, or whatever it is that floats their boat, until their bad habits catch up to them. Then afterwards, they have some debilitating problem that they learn to live with, and hope that you can fix one day. Many of your patients will be the regular, common working person. It would help you to help them if you start thinking like them too. You don't need to live their unhealthy lifestyles, but you have to know what they think. As a doctor, if you don't come down from the high horse, it will be harder for you to understand and connect with them. Those that finally want help will get it regardless of what YOU say to them. Just make sure you are still there for those that want it. Believe this though: no government program of sinking our tax dollars into free health care and other sorts of programs is going to fix the problem. I believe it will make it worse.

My rant is over. Let the stone throwing begin!!

 

[EastWestN2grt]

I didn't think I'd post again on this topic. I have to though. I don't know if any of you have ever worked a blue collar job as a career or for what length of time you may have. Most of you sound like you have gone straight through college from HS and now want medicine.

Those that finally want help will get it regardless of what YOU say to them. Just make sure you are still there for those that want it. Believe this though: no government program of sinking our tax dollars into free health care and other sorts of programs is going to fix the problem. I believe it will make it worse.

My rant is over. Let the stone throwing begin!!

Static, Not all of us posting are booger-noses. There is quite a diverse background from the group, and I for one will be celebrating my 10th year undergrad college reunion this year(to date me). And in that time, I have also amassed a nice list of jobs/experiences/etc.

Now, I can completely understand how you developed your position in this matter, because you are seeing patients at the end-stages of disease. I was an EMT working on ambulance at one time, so I understand this perspective. You saw patients when they require emergency medical intervention to save them from a long-life of wrong choices and bad habits. BUT.....

I have also had the privilege to work, at the other end of the spectrum, when you as a practitioner(doctor) can influence patients to make the correct choices. And it DOES work. While yes, you are right, the decision to make positive diet and lifestyle choices essentially falls on each individual, you would be surprised at the extent of misinformation and ignorance are out there in the general public. I have seen patients(at free and government funded clinics, as well as in private clinics) respond positively when informed about diet, exercise and lifestyle. Most expecially if you can provide this information to children and younger adults so that they can grow up recognizing and then hopefully making positive diet and lifestyle choices, when it becomes their own choice. What better way to spend tax payer dollars then on preventive medicine--and thus cutting down on the incidence of chronic dieases(ie. Cardiovascular disease, heart disease, diabetes, etc.) Its either that, or continue to spend lots of $$$ on dealng with these problems at the end-stages where the only solutions are expensive solutions like surgery, pharma. etc..

 

[deadseafishing]

i think what we are all trying to say here is that its really a bit of both:

yes, there are some people 'fat and rich'- and even though they can take care of their bodies, they choose not to

yes, there are other people who are overweight, or have some type of medical condition like diabetes or something, and would like to do something about it, but cannot afford to do so for whatever reason.

yes, there are people who are well off that are educated and informed about the risks about alchol abuse, smoking, obeisty, but choose not to do anything. others are well off and yet choose to remain quite ignorant.

but there are many other people who are not well off, and have no access to education, and really don't know how to go about living healthy.



whatever side of the argument ur on, i think we can all agree that there is a culture here in america that's aimed at satisfying your desires instantly. Everyone is looking for a shortcut to being young and fit forever.

Also, we live in kind of a 'food culture' soceity. Someone mentioned ad campiagns- this must have an affect on america's psyche- i mean everytime u turn on the tv there's big mac staring u in the face. Have you ever seen an ad for broccoli on tv?

Thus, preventive medicine becomes something you should preach to everyone. sure, not everyone will listen to your advice, but someone will- and that makes a huge difference. I would say there needs to be increased funding for programs that will help spread the word.

 

[Static Line]

but there are many other people who are not well off, and have no access to education, and really don't know how to go about living healthy.

whatever side of the argument ur on, i think we can all agree that there is a culture here in america that's aimed at satisfying your desires instantly. Everyone is looking for a shortcut to being young and fit forever.

I would say there needs to be increased funding for programs that will help spread the word.

I can agree that there are some w/o an education and don't know how to live healthy. However, I think it is minimal and more people choose to live the way they do. I also think you are right on with the instant gratification culture here in America.

I do not however think we need to spread the word by spending more taxpayer dollars. It's just differences of philosophy I suppose. Peace out!

 

[djnels01]

deadseafishing, I agree with you 100%. Especially about the "satisfying your desires instantly..." part.

I think there is some truth in everything that has been said on here so far. My work in a soup kitchen this year has taught me that when the impoverished guests of this Catholic Worker house come here hungry, they don't care what there is to eat as long as its food and it satisfies them, no matter how unhealthy. So in this regard I am more apt to agree with the poverty idea. But I see the other sides as well.

Staticline, I agree with you too: we shouldn't spend more tax dollars to remedy this system. We should change our tax dollar spending habits, so the money is better spread out. It is too bad that we don't have more tax money to try to remedy this and other problems.

It's funny, we can afford to fight a war in Iraq, but we can't afford to pay our teachers more, fund education more than we do, and offer more presecription discount programs those in greatest need (at least here in MO, this is a major problem...)

 

[Lady Tokimi]

deadseafishing
It's funny, we can afford to fight a war in Iraq, but we can't afford to pay our teachers more, fund education more than we do, and offer more presecription discount programs those in greatest need (at least here in MO, this is a major problem...)

I agree with you here, more money should be allocated to the teaching and educating programs so that people are more well informed. When you read articles on medical issues such as obesity, you are bound to read somethin on how they are tryin to educate the public on what a good healthy diet is, yet the money just isn't there for them. And thanks to Bush, the little money they did have just got smaller.

 

[Daddydoc]

We will never be able to convince or persuade everyone to make the healthy decisions and lifestyle changes. I have had the opportunity in the last two years (while working in a doctor's office) to see people change their lives when properly educated and empowered by caring physicians. I'm not planning on preaching from my "high horse", but I plan to reach out and help those who are willing to listen. We (as future physicians) come from many diverse backgrounds. This helps each of us (as a whole) to reach out to a diverse body of patients. Each of us individually may not seem to make much difference, but together we can (and hopefully will) change healthcare.