Assessing new programs

[b-real]

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Hey everyone, I'm trying to finalize my rank list and have perhaps an elementary question. What criteria do applicants use to judge new programs, specifically programs that haven't yet graduated a class? Asking residents in that program is good and all, but there are questions relating to board preparation and pass rates that they wouldn't be able to answer. Additionally, there's no precedent for new programs as far as job placement after graduation, so I have no idea how recruiting will go. I would think that groups hiring will be reluctant to hire from programs that they have no previous experience with. I was wondering how others are attacking this because there's a program that I really like and is high on my list, but is new(ish).

 

[pseudoknot]

Leap of faith.

 

[StevieStud]

20 years ago there were far fewer programs and so the only way to judge a startup was by judging the other residency programs offered.

Assuming the program has other residency programs, you could judget the "potential" for the EM program by how are the other programs are viewed by their peers.

Obviously if graduates of the GS/IM or whatever program has problems getting a job then you may as well. If GS/IM is getting fellowship offers at every major program in the country then some of that goodness might rub off on your EM program as well.

While the comparison between programs is not always valid, there is the teaching facility's reputation to be upheld. If they produce a good GS/IM etc, they are going to want their EM program to be on the same level. So look at the other programs and take a leap of faith.

 

[Deuce Doc]

What criteria do applicants use to judge new programs, specifically programs that haven't yet graduated a class?

Without past performance of a program to look at, I am willing to use the history of the PD and APDs who have come from other programs that I CAN evaluate. I am looking at a relatively new program too, and I'm reassured by the program director's success at the place he came from. In the absence of a record at another institution, tough to say.

As far as job prospects, I suspect personal connections of the faculty can be just as important as your program's rep. But, if you are talking about an institution that doesn't have much of a reputation, a brand new EM program and a faculty that doesn't have a history of leadership in state and national organizations, I would suspect that you will be at some disadvantage in the job search.

 

[RustedFox]

I'm a graduating PGY-3 at a "new" program (University of Toledo... we're the first class that's graduating). I pretty much had no problems interviewing where I wanted to. The job market is good for us. At least for now.

Don't. Sweat. It.

 

[otacon88]

I'm a graduating PGY-3 at a "new" program (University of Toledo... we're the first class that's graduating). I pretty much had no problems interviewing where I wanted to. The job market is good for us. At least for now.

Don't. Sweat. It.

a spin off - but what made you pick the program (relatively higher on your rank list I'm assuming) if you were the first class and had nothing to go on but the faculty interviews?

I'm in the same boat myself at a new program that started up this year, and not sure where to rank them.

 

[cofcemt]

In the same boat. Two of the programs I interviewed at I really liked, but are newer without grads yet. No job placement, board pass rate, and new PDs (no previous experience as PD) are hard to get over. However, the locations of both programs are great and appear to be well placed to be a very successful in the future.

I would also like to hear what factors led people to take that leap of faith and go to a new program.

 

[RustedFox]

You guys are kvetching too much. Its like anything else; if you study, put in your work, and pay attention... you'll do well on your in-service exams, and consequently have no troubles passing the boards. You've come this far because of your good academic bent and study habits... just keep it up.

Why did I rank my program highly? Same reason as everyone else; it was a good fit. It had opportunities that I was interested in (education, patient-care/community based, good faculty), and was in a geographic region that I wanted to live in (mid-atlantic area, not in a megacity).

 

[RustedFox]

Also, regarding my program (copy-and-pasted from another thead):

I frequently give the following speech to applicants at the pre-interview dinner:

"There are three kickass things about our program..

1.) No floor months. Any program that has you doing more than one medicine floor month is using you as a note-writing machine.
2.) Not a single on-service attending is malignant.
3.) Three electives in your senior year. No off-service months. Do what you want to, not what the institution 'deals' you to do as part of some interdepartmental bargain."