Asset Protection Talk

[RustedFox]

I recently went to an asset protection "dinner/presentation" by local wealth management firm NOS. Free dinner. No obligation. Sat and listened, ate steak.

Ass.Mgmt Firm is also offering me a no-cost personal review meeting. Gonna take it.

What do you guys want me to ask?

What does WhiteCoat want to say?

Jumping off point: I was suprised to learn that Florida has some very robust asset protection laws in place. Most interesting to me was the prohibition of wage garnishment on the heads of households beyond a very small amount. This even applies to IC folks if you title yourself right.

.... Aaaaand, go!


(Note: While. I will never complain about free food... Ruth's Chris Steakhouse = lolz. Will never go back.)

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[emergentmd]

I recently went to an asset protection "dinner/presentation" by local wealth management firm NOS. Free dinner. No obligation. Sat and listened, ate steak.

Ass.Mgmt Firm is also offering me a no-cost personal review meeting. Gonna take it.

What do you guys want me to ask?

What does WhiteCoat want to say?

Jumping off point: I was suprised to learn that Florida has some very robust asset protection laws in place. Most interesting to me was the prohibition of wage garnishment on the heads of households beyond a very small amount. This even applies to IC folks if you title yourself right.

.... Aaaaand, go!


(Note: While. I will never complain about free food... Ruth's Chris Steakhouse = lolz. Will never go back.)

All Docs get this. They know you are rich, they want money and likely not the most cost effective way to do this. I would just ask around, your other docs will have people who did this for them that will be trustworthy. A steak is never worth your 2 hr of time.

 

[CliveStaples]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but is this manager actually offering you something that you need? How concerned are you about asset protection? The best protection is going to be your standard insurance (malpractice, home, etc.) combined with an umbrella policy up to the point that you have assets that need protection.

More often, these talks end up diverting to a discussion about "protecting" your assets from taxation via whole life insurance policies.

Protect your assets by not getting a divorce. That's really how physicians lose their livelihood.

 

[goodoldalky]

If you read WCI you already know more than they can help you with. Their advice may seem "free" but in reality 2-3 steps down the road their "wealth management plan" will cost you half a million dollars over the course of your career. Not to say don't do it, you may not be a DIYer, just FYI.

 

[RustedFox]

1) It will cost me nothing to listen.
2) maybe you guys missed the part in the first post where I said: "What do you guys want me to ask?"

 

[emergentmd]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but is this manager actually offering you something that you need? How concerned are you about asset protection? The best protection is going to be your standard insurance (malpractice, home, etc.) combined with an umbrella policy up to the point that you have assets that need protection.

More often, these talks end up diverting to a discussion about "protecting" your assets from taxation via whole life insurance policies.

Protect your assets by not getting a divorce. That's really how physicians lose their livelihood.

I agree with this. I looked into asset protection and some of my partners started Trusts but it seems so complicated and somewhat expensive to set up. Most Docs have less than a mil in assets (other than their home) and it seems silly to have a complicated vehicle to protect less than 1 Mil.

I have well over 1 mil and I just have a $2 mil umbrella to cover any accidents that go beyond my other insurance.

 

[emergentmd]

1) It will cost me nothing to listen.
2) maybe you guys missed the part in the first post where I said: "What do you guys want me to ask?"

Dont Go. Go to a fluff fluff lecture if you really want a good steak. Too many young docs go in thinking its a free steak. They come out with expensive, complicated vehicles that will cost them alot of $$$ to get out of.

And yes, they will push some type of whole/variable life policy as a protection. At best, you will sign up for protection you won't need and have no clue how it really works.

But if you want to risk this for a free steak, then by all means. You have been warned. Their presentation will sound really good and you will feel that you have to have it. The problem is most young docs without any financial knowledge will jump on board b/c they don't know any better. There are so much better ways to invest, protect assets that you can do yourself. It just takes alittle time but gives you control of the process.

This very well can be the most expensive steak of your life. I know my Fish meal cost me 10K to extricate myself from a variable life policy.

 

[Apollyon]

I know my Fish meal cost me 10K to extricate myself from a variable life policy.

But, did you get the lobster?

 

[RustedFox]

Okay, everyone re-read my first post.

Steak was eaten. It was marginal at best. Cheesecake was a nice dessert. Wife and I enjoyed the evening out. Had wine.

Homeboy Ass.Mgmt (Lol) is also offering a "no cost personal eval". I'm going to spend an hour listening to them. No cost. No obligation. I have six days off next week, with nothing to do.

What do you want me to ask them ?

 

[emergentmd]

But, did you get the lobster?

No Lobster. I wish I ordered the Almas Caviar with European white truffle on top. I would feel much better about the food.

 

[emergentmd]

Okay, everyone re-read my first post.

Steak was eaten. It was marginal at best. Cheesecake was a nice dessert. Wife and I enjoyed the evening out. Had wine.

Homeboy Ass.Mgmt (Lol) is also offering a "no cost personal eval". I'm going to spend an hour listening to them. No cost. No obligation. I have six days off next week, with nothing to do.

What do you want me to ask them ?

Homeboy? Red Flag.

I would ask them how they are going to rape you and the cost of each rape. I am sure they will give tell you about the lube version and then give you the dry version when you pay them. You have been warned.

 

[deleted480308]

Okay, everyone re-read my first post.

Steak was eaten. It was marginal at best. Cheesecake was a nice dessert. Wife and I enjoyed the evening out. Had wine.

Homeboy Ass.Mgmt (Lol) is also offering a "no cost personal eval". I'm going to spend an hour listening to them. No cost. No obligation. I have six days off next week, with nothing to do.

What do you want me to ask them ?

How do they suggest reallocating assets as you approach retirement age...
what is the most efficient manner of passing on assets to children...

 

[CliveStaples]

You could ask him for examples of physicians he knows who did not "protect their assets" in the way that he's offering and the negative outcomes they faced for not doing so.

 

[Strider_91]

(Note: While. I will never complain about free food... Ruth's Chris Steakhouse = lolz. Will never go back.)[/QUOTE]


Ruth Chris is honestly a joke. The most mediocre steak I've ever had was at one of their restaurants. Would never go back for what they charge.

 

[Arcan57]

(Note: While. I will never complain about free food... Ruth's Chris Steakhouse = lolz. Will never go back.)

Ruth Chris is honestly a joke. The most mediocre steak I've ever had was at one of their restaurants. Would never go back for what they charge.

Are you implying that a layer of buttered char half again the thickness of the mediocre, poorly cooked steak it arises from is a bad thing?

Rusted, it's extremely unlikely that you need asset protection beyond appropriate insurance at this stage in your career. If you don't have disability you should get it, if you don't have life but do have dependent you need term life, and you may need an umbrella policy although FL has some protections that may make the last less crucial. If you feel obligated to show up for their sales pitch then you need to ask about their accreditation, their fee structure, and whether they get commission on anything they recommend.

 

[emergentmd]

Are you implying that a layer of buttered char half again the thickness of the mediocre, poorly cooked steak it arises from is a bad thing?

Rusted, it's extremely unlikely that you need asset protection beyond appropriate insurance at this stage in your career. If you don't have disability you should get it, if you don't have life but do have dependent you need term life, and you may need an umbrella policy although FL has some protections that may make the last less crucial. If you feel obligated to show up for their sales pitch then you need to ask about their accreditation, their fee structure, and whether they get commission on anything they recommend.

Of course they get commission or fee for what they sell. You are better off asking your friends, and doing an internet search.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Ruth's Chris is highly dependent on whether it is a corporate-owned, or franchised location. The steak at the franchised one in Vegas is pitiful. I just ate at the corporate-owned one in Anaheim it and it was great.

I'd go to any lecture for a free steak, even Rheumatology!

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but is this manager actually offering you something that you need? How concerned are you about asset protection? The best protection is going to be your standard insurance (malpractice, home, etc.) combined with an umbrella policy up to the point that you have assets that need protection.

More often, these talks end up diverting to a discussion about "protecting" your assets from taxation via whole life insurance policies.

Protect your assets by not getting a divorce. That's really how physicians lose their livelihood.

Going off-topic only slightly... has anyone looked into divorce insurance? I'm not convinced that not getting a divorce is a reliable plan for most of us.

 

[emergentmd]

Going off-topic only slightly... has anyone looked into divorce insurance? I'm not convinced that not getting a divorce is a reliable plan for most of us.

What is this divorce insurance? I doubt it even exist and if it did, would be SUPER expensive.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

You got a Pre-nup? or nah?

 

[CliveStaples]

Prenuptial arrangements are appropriate for individuals who have already accumulated wealth that they are bringing into a marriage; this is a form of protection against unscrupulous individuals who seek to enter into a marriage in order to claim half of the assets in the case of a divorce.

However, prenuptial agreements will not protect against wealth accumulated during the marriage, which is often where physicians get in trouble. They enter into a marriage early in their career and then accumulate maybe a decade's worth of wealth, only to lose half of these earnings in the case of divorce.

The only insurance against this is to marry wisely. In terms of financial liability, it makes little sense for a high earner to marry a low earner. However, marriage is not a contract of reason. Understand what love is and why love would lead somebody to a marriage and how love should keep a marriage together, and then decide to enter the covenant.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Prenuptial arrangements are appropriate for individuals who have already accumulated wealth that they are bringing into a marriage; this is a form of protection against unscrupulous individuals who seek to enter into a marriage in order to claim half of the assets in the case of a divorce.

However, prenuptial agreements will not protect against wealth accumulated during the marriage, which is often where physicians get in trouble. They enter into a marriage early in their career and then accumulate maybe a decade's worth of wealth, only to lose half of these earnings in the case of divorce.

The only insurance against this is to marry wisely. In terms of financial liability, it makes little sense for a high earner to marry a low earner. However, marriage is not a contract of reason. Understand what love is and why love would lead somebody to a marriage and how love should keep a marriage together, and then decide to enter the covenant.

totally agree with the love part... but life is unpredictable.

Is there really NO legal application that can truly be applied AFTER marriage to protect one's accumulation of wealth during that time?

Also, why are physician-physician divorce rates so high? (or what I've been told)

 

[CliveStaples]

totally agree with the love part... but life is unpredictable.

Is there really NO legal application that can truly be applied AFTER marriage to protect one's accumulation of wealth during that time?

Also, why are physician-physician divorce rates so high? (or what I've been told)

With rare exceptions, no. This is because the income earned during the marriage belong to the "marriage" and not just to the person who labored for them. Presumably, that other partner contributes to the marriage in an equal, but not equally quantifiable way.

I do not believe that physicians are more predisposed to divorce, though this study does not specifically address physicians married to other physicians, as far as I can tell: http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h706

 

[TooMuchResearch]

totally agree with the love part... but life is unpredictable.

Is there really NO legal application that can truly be applied AFTER marriage to protect one's accumulation of wealth during that time?

Also, why are physician-physician divorce rates so high? (or what I've been told)

Work a lot. See how much the spouse likes it.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Physician-physician divorces are actually quite rare. Well, maybe not rare, but much lower than the general population. Like 8% vs 50%.

Florida is a great state for asset protection. Homestead laws, retirement account protections, cash value life insurance/annuity protections, wage garnishment protections etc. However, it is also a particularly litigious state, especially Dade County. I guess I'd rather not get sued at all than have good asset protection options.

Basic asset protection is cheap, clear-cut, and straightforward. It works like this:
1) Buy malpractice and umbrella insurance
2) Title your house as "tenants by the entirety" if possible in your state and social situation
3) Max out your retirement accounts
4) Don't get divorced

Chances of you needing something more than that is very, very low. Not zero. But low.

As a general rule, the best financial advisors don't do steak dinners to get new clients. At a big fee-only firm, the partners may come out and do the dinners, but that's to help the new advisors fill their practices. The partners filled theirs long ago. Usually the steak dinner is from a commissioned firm, which isn't an advisor at all, but a salesman.

You want questions to ask? Start with these:

1) How do you get paid and how much will I be paying you?
2) What degrees or certifications do you hold and how long did it take to get them?
3) What does a typical portfolio for your clients look like? If it is not 100% index and similar funds, please explain the reasoning why not?

Lots more where those came from: http://whitecoatinvestor.com/questions-to-ask-when-hiring-a-financial-adviser/

 

[sum dude]

If you can get in the racket of offering free steak to Doctors and rich people to buy expensive asset-protection vehicles and trusts, you should definitely do it.

If they're selling to you, you'd be better off going to Bern's or Charley's and spending $100 of your own money rather than being sold something you don't need.

 

[Old_Mil]

I recently went to an asset protection "dinner/presentation" by local wealth management firm NOS. Free dinner. No obligation. Sat and listened, ate steak.

Ass.Mgmt Firm is also offering me a no-cost personal review meeting. Gonna take it.

What do you guys want me to ask?

What does WhiteCoat want to say?

Jumping off point: I was suprised to learn that Florida has some very robust asset protection laws in place. Most interesting to me was the prohibition of wage garnishment on the heads of households beyond a very small amount. This even applies to IC folks if you title yourself right.

.... Aaaaand, go!


(Note: While. I will never complain about free food... Ruth's Chris Steakhouse = lolz. Will never go back.)

How domestic LLCs are increasingly being penetrated by courts seeking access to the assets held within them.

Honestly, IMHO, there is nothing quite like getting your assets out of the country.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

How domestic LLCs are increasingly being penetrated by courts seeking access to the assets held within them.

Do you have examples of this? I have my real estate investments in a LLC just for this reason. I would be interested to know the details of what you are describing.

 

[Old_Mil]

Do you have examples of this? I have my real estate investments in a LLC just for this reason. I would be interested to know the details of what you are describing.

http://www.rjmintz.com/misc/asset-protection-articles/piercing-the-llc-veil/

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Just another reason to detest lawyers, and our legal system in general....

 

[GeneralVeers]

Lawyers make the laws. If you don't like the laws then run for office and change them. Doctors need to participate.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

In a perfect world legislators (who are lawyers) make laws.

However, the case above shows that the courts often simply go around those laws.

States passed clear LLC laws that established a liability boundary between personal and LLC assets. But through various case laws the legislative law has been weakened by judges trying to find legal ways to have cases come out the way they wanted them to.

Worse example of this that I know of, and one that has enormous impacts on our nation, is the case of Wickard v. Filburn....one judicial judgement that effectively GUTTED our 10th amendment.