At what point to call it quits, if ever? Age? Length of time studying MCAT?

[Gauss44]

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At what age would you stop trying to get into medical school? 30? 35? 40? etc.

After what amount of time would you stop trying to get a good score on the MCAT? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? etc.

...and why?

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'm almost 30. I would give up on this process if I didn't get in by 35 (that would give me roughly 3 cycles to apply). If I don't get in after 3 cycles, it wasn't meant to be. I'd return to my current career and write-off the med school thing knowing that I gave it my all. That said, I don't think 35 is too old to start, just don't think it's worth it for me to sink in more than 5 years from today to just try and start medical school (hopefully 5 years from today I'm graduating medical school... Class of 2018).

As for the MCAT, I'd probably give up after a 3rd attempt. Many things can go wrong during one MCAT attempt (from being sick, to the computer freezing, to the questions being completely out of left field). If by the third attempt (likely 2 years of prep and at least one more prep courses) I'm not getting any better at the test, then I'll accept that it is a clear indication I'll struggle on step 1 and other standardized tests.

Of course the above is theoretical. I'm not yet faced with this dilemma (and I hope not to be), so this is what I think I'd do. Who knows what I'd actually do.

 

[Jumoke]

For me, I never give up on anything I set my heart to. I don't know how to give up. All roads lead here, this is the only way forward. Failure is not an option here. I am finding a way to make it in at the first try! If i have to sleep only 4hours per night for the next year, I will.

 

[sstespri]

For me, I never give up on anything I set my heart to. I don't know how to give up. All roads lead here, this is the only way forward. Failure is not an option here. I am finding a way to make it in at the first try! If i have to sleep only 4hours per night for the next year, I will.

Although your attitude is to be admired, you must be realistic too.

 

[Goro]

Age is totally up to you. For MCAT. I'd say that if after three takes you haven't cracked the 30 barrier (for MD schools) and 25 (for DO schools), then it's time to do something else.

I'd also recommend calling it quits after three application cycles with no interviews, or interviews and no admits. There's a message there.

But age alone shouldn't stop you. Some of my all-time best students were in their 40s; our oldest matriculant was 53.

At what age would you stop trying to get into medical school? 30? 35? 40? etc.

After what amount of time would you stop trying to get a good score on the MCAT? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? etc.

...and why?

 

[TriagePreMed]

If I had to do a third cycle, I'd apply to podiatry at the same time.

 

[Shjanzey]

Although your attitude is to be admired, you must be realistic too.

That is what losers say.

I will also never give up. Everyone who has told me to be "realistic" isn't doing what I am doing. If being "realistic" works for you, thats great, but it doesn't work for me.

This is my third cycle. The first cycle I didn't have all my pre-requisites, and bombed the MCAT (22). Learned a lesson there, and I also didn't even send in an app that year. Too embarrassed about my score. Second cycle got interview, but no invite. MCAT improved to 29. Now the third cycle is coming up. I will retake the MCAT, and it will improve yet again because I never stopped studying after the last one. If I don't get accepted this year, rinse and repeat after the obligatory 2 month anger/depression fest.

I am 34, and basically I made the promise to myself that I will keep trying until I die. So, I guess that is when I stop and become "realistic" as you say.

 

[hopeful22213]

Most people would consider it a cycle only if you've actually submitted apps. Unless you meant no secondaries were sent in?

Also, I agree with gonnif: if you are not seeing progress, don't feel compelled to rush into the next app cycle. Take a year or more off to strengthen your application. Save the monetary and emotional costs of extra cycles until you've made legitimate improvement as a candidate for admission.

 

[kavorca]

That is what losers say.

I will also never give up. Everyone who has told me to be "realistic" isn't doing what I am doing. If being "realistic" works for you, thats great, but it doesn't work for me.

This is my third cycle. The first cycle I didn't have all my pre-requisites, and bombed the MCAT (22). Learned a lesson there, and I also didn't even send in an app that year. Too embarrassed about my score. Second cycle got interview, but no invite. MCAT improved to 29. Now the third cycle is coming up. I will retake the MCAT, and it will improve yet again because I never stopped studying after the last one. If I don't get accepted this year, rinse and repeat after the obligatory 2 month anger/depression fest.

I am 34, and basically I made the promise to myself that I will keep trying until I die. So, I guess that is when I stop and become "realistic" as you say.

That's pretty simplistic, naïve, and angry. If someone decides to stop applying after a few attempts, I wouldn't call them a loser. You have only applied once. I hope you get in, but it is easy to say you will die before you give up after one attempt.

 

[Law2Doc]

At what age would you stop trying to get into medical school? 30? 35? 40? etc.

After what amount of time would you stop trying to get a good score on the MCAT? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? etc.

...and why?

Assuming you are healthy, I see no reason you couldn't start med school as late as late 40s, early 50s, as long as you didn't have aspirations for something crazy intense like neurosurgery. Even if it takes you a decade of school and residency, so long as you work into your 70s and aren't doing it for the $, you can probably have a cool 15 year career. These days lots of young people bail on jobs quicker than that anyhow. (these days the folks who can't stay at a job just call themselves serial entrepreneurs).

In terms of MCAT score, I would suggest that is actually one of the easier standardized tests you will face in medicine, so if it's really taking you multiple years to get over this hurdle, I'd worry that you may hit similar walls with one or more of the Step exams, specialty boards and the like. It doesn't really ever get any easier, just perhaps more interesting. Know thyself.

 

[yossarian444]

That is what losers say.

I will also never give up. Everyone who has told me to be "realistic" isn't doing what I am doing. If being "realistic" works for you, thats great, but it doesn't work for me.

This is my third cycle. The first cycle I didn't have all my pre-requisites, and bombed the MCAT (22). Learned a lesson there, and I also didn't even send in an app that year. Too embarrassed about my score. Second cycle got interview, but no invite. MCAT improved to 29. Now the third cycle is coming up. I will retake the MCAT, and it will improve yet again because I never stopped studying after the last one. If I don't get accepted this year, rinse and repeat after the obligatory 2 month anger/depression fest.

I am 34, and basically I made the promise to myself that I will keep trying until I die. So, I guess that is when I stop and become "realistic" as you say.

Little bit of all or nothing thinking there? You sound so excited for medicine - I hate to disappoint you - while it's a great career, it's not enough to bring magical happiness and joy into your life. It's certainly not worth a lifetime of MCATs and applications!

 

[Shjanzey]

Little bit of all or nothing thinking there? You sound so excited for medicine - I hate to disappoint you - while it's a great career, it's not enough to bring magical happiness and joy into your life. It's certainly not worth a lifetime of MCATs and applications!

Sounds like you are having second thoughts. Your pessimism doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I have done my homework. I know what I am getting myself into. I am excited, because I love it. I love shadowing, I love volunteering, I love studying for hours on end. I actually look forward to studying after a 12 hour day of work.

An artist can't wait to do art. A musician can't wait to play music. I can't wait to do medicine. It is as simple as that.

That's pretty simplistic, naïve, and angry. If someone decides to stop applying after a few attempts, I wouldn't call them a loser. You have only applied once. I hope you get in, but it is easy to say you will die before you give up after one attempt.

I think you misquote me here. I said that the advice to "be realistic" within the context it was presented was a loser thinking mentality. I have heard the same advice shatter some kid's dream of becoming a professional sports star. "Be realistic" can be rephrased as "so few people ever make it, so why try so hard, when you probably won't make it."

Lets talk realistic -- I saw a young lady with a 22 on her MCAT get accepted to an allopathic program. I know her personally, and her professional qualifications, personal volunteering, and academic records aren't close to my achievements. If she can make it, then I know that I can make it 100%. That is realism to me.

The "I will die" promise, is what I promised myself 5 years ago when I started with the pre-requisites. By now I think the "impulse" and emotion of that statement would have worn away if I was as shallow as you infer 😀 The pain I felt after that first rejection was immense, but I am even more motivated now than before. The difference between a successful person and someone who just "wasn't talented/lucky enough" is the successful person just didn't know when to quit. Call me crazy, call me stupid, whatever you want. I will come back and remind you all when I receive my acceptance letter 😀

 

[yossarian444]

Sounds like you are having second thoughts. Your pessimism doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I have done my homework. I know what I am getting myself into. I am excited, because I love it. I love shadowing, I love volunteering, I love studying for hours on end. I actually look forward to studying after a 12 hour day of work.

An artist can't wait to do art. A musician can't wait to play music. I can't wait to do medicine. It is as simple as that.



I think you misquote me here. I said that the advice to "be realistic" within the context it was presented was a loser thinking mentality. I have heard the same advice shatter some kid's dream of becoming a professional sports star. "Be realistic" can be rephrased as "so few people ever make it, so why try so hard, when you probably won't make it."

Lets talk realistic -- I saw a young lady with a 22 on her MCAT get accepted to an allopathic program. I know her personally, and her professional qualifications, personal volunteering, and academic records aren't close to my achievements. If she can make it, then I know that I can make it 100%. That is realism to me.

The "I will die" promise, is what I promised myself 5 years ago when I started with the pre-requisites. By now I think the "impulse" and emotion of that statement would have worn away if I was as shallow as you infer 😀 The pain I felt after that first rejection was immense, but I am even more motivated now than before. The difference between a successful person and someone who just "wasn't talented/lucky enough" is the successful person just didn't know when to quit. Call me crazy, call me stupid, whatever you want. I will come back and remind you all when I receive my acceptance letter 😀

Bit of interview advice: On med school interviews, some will probably ask what your backup plans are should you not get in. Though I could be wrong, I'm guessing they'd prefer a reasonable answer that's well thought out and offers up a reasonable alternative to medical school rather than "I'll apply until I'm 100." Of course, applying for 2-3 more cycles is still reasonable and naturally a desired answer. Beyond 2-3 cycles is probably outside the bell curve of normal behavior in most situations - a trait frowned upon in medicine. We like normal in medicine.

Second thoughts for me, you ask? Nahh, not really. Sure, I'll give you I'm pessimistic, but that's just me being my dry self. I don't regret having gone to medical school; I'm just saying that no matter how well-informed we are heading into the profession via shadowing, working, etc., there will always be some aspects of the job that fail to live up to our pre-med ideals. Same as any career. Medicine is still a great career.

And, while the acceptance letter feels nice, you'll hear over and over again in your first year of medical school classmates saying: "Whoever said getting in was the hardest part lied."

 

[jl lin]

Age is totally up to you. For MCAT. I'd say that if after three takes you haven't cracked the 30 barrier (for MD schools) and 25 (for DO schools), then it's time to do something else.

I'd also recommend calling it quits after three application cycles with no interviews, or interviews and no admits. There's a message there.

But age alone shouldn't stop you. Some of my all-time best students were in their 40s; our oldest matriculant was 53.

👍👍👍

 

[jl lin]

Assuming you are healthy, I see no reason you couldn't start med school as late as late 40s, early 50s, as long as you didn't have aspirations for something crazy intense like neurosurgery. Even if it takes you a decade of school and residency, so long as you work into your 70s and aren't doing it for the $, you can probably have a cool 15 year career. These days lots of young people bail on jobs quicker than that anyhow. (these days the folks who can't stay at a job just call themselves serial entrepreneurs).

In terms of MCAT score, I would suggest that is actually one of the easier standardized tests you will face in medicine, so if it's really taking you multiple years to get over this hurdle, I'd worry that you may hit similar walls with one or more of the Step exams, specialty boards and the like. It doesn't really ever get any easier, just perhaps more interesting. Know thyself.

OK, another great response worthy of 3 👍👍👍

 

[jl lin]

Assuming you are healthy, I see no reason you couldn't start med school as late as late 40s, early 50s, as long as you didn't have aspirations for something crazy intense like neurosurgery. Even if it takes you a decade of school and residency, so long as you work into your 70s and aren't doing it for the $, you can probably have a cool 15 year career. These days lots of young people bail on jobs quicker than that anyhow. (these days the folks who can't stay at a job just call themselves serial entrepreneurs).

In terms of MCAT score, I would suggest that is actually one of the easier standardized tests you will face in medicine, so if it's really taking you multiple years to get over this hurdle, I'd worry that you may hit similar walls with one or more of the Step exams, specialty boards and the like. It doesn't really ever get any easier, just perhaps more interesting. Know thyself.

Also, however, I would like to know your perspective regarding the aforementioned age group and allopathic schools' response to these applicants, in general--even if their stats are good. I truly know more than a few docs working into their 80s. They are in good shape and pretty sharp. I personally think continuing work as kept them sharp. Serious health issues would be problematic, however.

Thanks in advance if you choose to respond.

 

[Quizlet04]

I think you misquote me here. I said that the advice to "be realistic" within the context it was presented was a loser thinking mentality. I have heard the same advice shatter some kid's dream of becoming a professional sports star. "Be realistic" can be rephrased as "so few people ever make it, so why try so hard, when you probably won't make it."

I taught a girl once who had a mediocre singing voice and wanted to be a star. I tried to get her to care about passing her math classes so she could graduate and go off to college. She informed me that because she was a singer, she didn't need to do math or need to go to college.

Now, I will be the first to admit that college is a mixed blessing. However, to say that you don't need to do something because you're aiming big is ridiculous and self-destructive. All these kids who go to Division 1 colleges at schools they're wildly underqualified for...what happens to the 99% who don't go pro?

Lets talk realistic -- I saw a young lady with a 22 on her MCAT get accepted to an allopathic program. I know her personally, and her professional qualifications, personal volunteering, and academic records aren't close to my achievements. If she can make it, then I know that I can make it 100%. That is realism to me.

Was she a URM at a state school in Texas? Because a 22 is...not so hot.

The "I will die" promise, is what I promised myself 5 years ago when I started with the pre-requisites. By now I think the "impulse" and emotion of that statement would have worn away if I was as shallow as you infer 😀 The pain I felt after that first rejection was immense, but I am even more motivated now than before. The difference between a successful person and someone who just "wasn't talented/lucky enough" is the successful person just didn't know when to quit. Call me crazy, call me stupid, whatever you want. I will come back and remind you all when I receive my acceptance letter 😀

Success isn't all hard work. Sometimes, it's hard work + savvy people. Go and read an article on how a promising young woman got thrown out of college because her family screwed up her financial aid forms, for example. Sometimes it's hard work + luck. Right place, right time, right skills. Do you think all those people, including engineers, who aren't employed right now just aren't working hard enough? If so, go say that in an unemployment line. Let me know how that goes.

 

[QofQuimica]

At what age would you stop trying to get into medical school? 30? 35? 40? etc.

After what amount of time would you stop trying to get a good score on the MCAT? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? etc.

...and why?

There's not going to be one universal answer to your question. From my perspective, anyone who tries more than once, maybe twice, is a little off their rocker. But then again, being a doctor wasn't a life dream for me like it appears to be for some of you. Unlike those who disliked their former careers, I enjoyed being a chemist. I would have had no problem continuing on in the field. So when it came to the MCAT and applying, I was willing to try once, and once only. I decided up front that if I did not get into medical school on the first try, I would do a post doc. I was looking for post docs at the same time that I was applying to medical school. But I also got all my ducks in a row and didn't take the test or apply until I was ready to give it my absolute best effort. There wasn't anything more I was able and willing to do to improve my app beyond what I had already done, and I was already 30 at that point, so I didn't see any sense in reapplying if I didn't get in the first time.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

There's not going to be one universal answer to your question. From my perspective, anyone who tries more than once, maybe twice, is a little off their rocker. But then again, being a doctor wasn't a life dream for me like it appears to be for some of you. Unlike those who disliked their former careers, I enjoyed being a chemist. I would have had no problem continuing on in the field. So when it came to the MCAT and applying, I was willing to try once, and once only. I decided up front that if I did not get into medical school on the first try, I would do a post doc. I was looking for post docs at the same time that I was applying to medical school. But I also got all my ducks in a row and didn't take the test or apply until I was ready to give it my absolute best effort. There wasn't anything more I was able and willing to do to improve my app beyond what I had already done, and I was already 30 at that point, so I didn't see any sense in reapplying if I didn't get in the first time.

Strong stuff here. The problem with needing to walk fire onto your target is that medical schools hate, hate, hate students who can't knock out the boards first time. And match without SOAPing, pass the in-service exams, etc. Everything else in medicine is predicated on being able to get your best effort together and perform the first time, be it a trivial clerkship exam, or a surgical airway on a struggling toddler. Do it right the first time, that's what physicians strive for. When you don't do that with your application, you send the message to adcomms that you'll always need a few iterations to get the important stuff right. Lots of schools very openly discourage, if not refuse, applications past a 2nd or 3rd attempt for that reason. Don't apply until you have it on point. Don't take the MCAT until you are sure that you can prepare the right way to maximize your potential. After you've done that, you get the one, two, maybe three cycles before that best score expires. Then you're done. You've failed at matriculating to medical school. AND THAT'S OK.

 

[Girly X]

Lots of good points in this thread.

 

[MsFutureDr]

I taught a girl once who had a mediocre singing voice and wanted to be a star. I tried to get her to care about passing her math classes so she could graduate and go off to college. She informed me that because she was a singer, she didn't need to do math or need to go to college.

Now, I will be the first to admit that college is a mixed blessing. However, to say that you don't need to do something because you're aiming big is ridiculous and self-destructive. All these kids who go to Division 1 colleges at schools they're wildly underqualified for...what happens to the 99% who don't go pro?



Was she a URM at a state school in Texas? Because a 22 is...not so hot.



Success isn't all hard work. Sometimes, it's hard work + savvy people. Go and read an article on how a promising young woman got thrown out of college because her family screwed up her financial aid forms, for example. Sometimes it's hard work + luck. Right place, right time, right skills. Do you think all those people, including engineers, who aren't employed right now just aren't working hard enough? If so, go say that in an unemployment line. Let me know how that goes.

Why would you assume the applicant was a URM?

 

[MsFutureDr]

I'm 30 now. I'm only applying next year and that's it. If i don't get in, then it was not meant to be. Despite having significant undergraduate loans, and paying out of pocket for all pre-med courses, I still have enough resources to prepare adequately and get into medical school. There's absolutely no reason i shouldn't be accepted in my first attempt except if i'm lazy studying or not studying enough. The only reasonable excuse is something goes wrong with my health ( i hope not). Some my consider my position too rigid, i'm not a genius but i have never failed at anything academically. I look up to my brother who is a General Surgeon and Pharm. D by the age of 32 ( was accepted at Harvard). So he is my inspiration.

 

[Chuchunezumis]

Why would you assume the applicant was a URM?

I'm fairly certain this is rhetorical, as that scene from X-men where Magneto asks Professor X "Why do you ask questions to which you already know the answers?" immediately plays in my head, but I'll give it a go anyways just in case.

It's asked because URM as a whole get in to medical school with much lower scores than non-URM, and when non-URM's mistakenly think they will be held to a URM standard it's a recipe for disaster. There is a already a huge bias on these forums for unrestrained encouragement rather than realism (IMO), so all it takes is N=1 for some people to think "Well, if they can do it, so can I!" It's especially important for non-URM applicants to realize that if most people getting in with their scores are URM, then they're likely out of luck.

 

[Gfliptastic]

I would say if you have the resources, maybe 4 cycles (like I did) is enough. If you get past 4, consider other options. Which aren't as bad on you mentally, physically, emotionally. Like PA or NP. In the all encompassing ball of providing medical care, those are fine.

That said, why 4 tries. Because there are things beyond matriculating that are foreboding based on a "sampling" of the pre-med road. Basically the MCAT. In relation to NBME/USMLE licensing. Or even COMLEX/AOA. As Law2Doc mentions.

I mean, there are many instances where your MCAT score doesn't correlate to your Step/Comlex score, but those instances take realistic honesty. I mean, if you got a 24 on it because your dog died, as you got dumped by your SO, while you get evicted all the day before - give it another go and try your damnedest, and hopefully retake in a non-similar situation. However, if you've taken it 3x and you are +/- 2 pts and still averaging a 26, it's rare that you'll have some magical part of your brain unlock and you bang out a 36 the next attempt.

Step 1 is BRUTAL!!!! The MCAT is a trickle compared to the deluge of Step 1 (like I tried to relay in some other thread and got told I was crazy by some PRE-MED). And as was pointed out before, >1 attempt on the Step is frowned upon. There are FMG's who are passing it on their 1st try. And just passing isn't much either. Your 200 on it will get beat by some FMG's 230 for the same residency spot (w/o debating the AMG v. FMG thing). And UNLIKE the MCAT, once you pass the Steps, it's not like you can retake it. That 200 is an indelible mark on your residency app.

And medicine is NOT like it was 10 years ago. Any doc will tell you. The residents/attendings and even us MS3/4's who chime in will tell you that. I have my own personal reasons for NOT pursuing being a mid-level. And I know if those reasons, were to diminish, I'd be asking MS3-self, WHY did I just not become a NP or PA!?

I spend 12-14 hrs/day in the hospital for IM. And weekends off are referred to as "golden weekends" because it is rare to get an entire weekend off. I am NOT even an intern! And when I think about how IM is what I want to do w/ my life, if it weren't for my personal reasons for being in med school, and waking up every single day...there's NO WAY I could look in the mirror and tell myself, "No worries, after you graduate from med school, you have to do this for 3 more years if you just want to be an internist."

There's a lot of humanistic crap out there these days. YES, ok. The Secret will get you whatever goal you want. Be damned if anything or anyone get in your way. You can do whatever you so choose. But base stuff in some realism. My dream board has me playing in the NBA as a 5'8" Filipino and making several children w/ Nicole Scherzinger. Hasn't happened.

Am I NOT driven enough?? And I'm being serious. Am I just a quitter? I don't think so. I'm just realistic.

W/ that said, 3 maybe 4 tries. Every subsequent try, really begin to consider something else. If medicine is your thing, all else be damned, at least start considering PA or NP. I'm sure there's a few people who have responded to this thread who are daydreaming right now about how they wish they went mid-level.

(P.S. - Shjanzey you at least have the correct attitude. If you can't wait to wallow in the "mud" of medicine even after a long day, that is something to work on relaying during interviews)

 

[Quizlet04]

I'm fairly certain this is rhetorical, as that scene from X-men where Magneto asks Professor X "Why do you ask questions to which you already know the answers?" immediately plays in my head, but I'll give it a go anyways just in case.

It's asked because URM as a whole get in to medical school with much lower scores than non-URM, and when non-URM's mistakenly think they will be held to a URM standard it's a recipe for disaster. There is a already a huge bias on these forums for unrestrained encouragement rather than realism (IMO), so all it takes is N=1 for some people to think "Well, if they can do it, so can I!" It's especially important for non-URM applicants to realize that if most people getting in with their scores are URM, then they're likely out of luck.

More or less. The mean acceptance scores for URMs are lower than that of non-URMs. The statistics are in the pre-allo forum, so you can dig them up if you want. You'll notice I also added a state, like Texas. Many state schools have much more favorable positions on residents, potentially extending to lower-than-average MCAT scores.

So, super-low MCAT plus the assertion that she has fewer qualifications could indicate a URM who, because she busted her ass working to pay for school (for example), didn't have time for extra curriculars or great studying.

 

[Shjanzey]

No, he is totally right. She is URM and I thought it was totally unfair she got accepted before me, but I won't argue. The caveat is she has to maintain a 3.0 in the postbacc and she starts 100% next year...but it wasn't in Texas so can we call that a draw? 😛

I taught a girl once who had a mediocre singing voice and wanted to be a star. I tried to get her to care about passing her math classes so she could graduate and go off to college. She informed me that because she was a singer, she didn't need to do math or need to go to college.

I think the underlying assumption here is a lack of aptitude. I would be forced to agree with you if I could not show a record of improvement, but on the contrary I have had a huge improvement in my MCAT retake (7 points). My average to retake this year is another 4 points higher, which puts me comfortably in the mid to high 30s now. If I did not continue to improve then it would be idealism and not realistic. It is good that you bring that up.

@Gfliptastic also brings up a good point about USMLE. Step 1 is extremely hard. I watched my wife go through that and it is brutal, and once you take it there is no retake. You have to get it right the first time.

As for spending many hours in the hospital, I think that depends on what you really want to do. I love the human interaction aspect of medicine, so I know that the biggest struggle for me will be monotonous tasks involving paperwork and isolation. If I can find a way to minimize this, then I know a simple 12 hour day at the hospital won't be so bad, especially after having worked a job where I was putting 12 - 16 hours/day alone at home,behind a computer (never again).

I have said some wild things, but grandiose statements are my way of giving myself no way back so that I will actually be motivated (instead of slinking off to the xbox for an induced sense of accomplishment that is only recorded in 1's and 0's on a hard disk)

 

[Jumoke]

That is what losers say.

I will also never give up. Everyone who has told me to be "realistic" isn't doing what I am doing. If being "realistic" works for you, thats great, but it doesn't work for me.

This is my third cycle. The first cycle I didn't have all my pre-requisites, and bombed the MCAT (22). Learned a lesson there, and I also didn't even send in an app that year. Too embarrassed about my score. Second cycle got interview, but no invite. MCAT improved to 29. Now the third cycle is coming up. I will retake the MCAT, and it will improve yet again because I never stopped studying after the last one. If I don't get accepted this year, rinse and repeat after the obligatory 2 month anger/depression fest.

I am 34, and basically I made the promise to myself that I will keep trying until I die. So, I guess that is when I stop and become "realistic" as you say.

You are right, realistic for me is "not giving up".

Instead of giving up so easily, there are other options one can consider. DO is one. Carrib is one. And for now SGU (Carrib) is looking quite attractive and will shave a year off the time I have to spend preparing for MCAT/Pre-Meds which may not get me into a US school until 2015.

Giving up is not a choice. Get in or die trying run in, swim in, crawl in but get in one way or the other and kick a** while you are there esp. knowing how painful it was for you to make it in the first place.