Atmosphere in Irish Med School

[cansnowflake]

I have been talking to some current medical students in Canada, and they spoke of the crazy competition and uptight atmosphere they experienced. They also described many fellow students as being very arrogant. I understand there will be people such as those described anywhere you go, but would someone be able to comment on the atmosphere of med school in Ireland?
I have read some people's comments on it briefly, but any further info would be great! I realize med school is difficult no matter where you go, but I am sick of the crazy competition in undergrad.
Thanks!!!

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[leorl]

Just be aware that not everywhere you go in the US/Canada will be like that, although there may be people like that. But that attititude really annoys the hell out of me, and is indeed one of the reasons I chose to go abroad. I think my class is one of the more positive ones, but my class atmosphere is great. There are very few people in my class who people don't like, and even those individuals we all at least get along with. From day 1, everyone's helped each other and watched out for each other's backs. Whether it's sharing notes, distributing notes that we've made from sources not on the recommended reading lists/internet, distributing "helpful materials" exam-wise (if you get my drift), relaying info about and setting up tutorials, etc. On a class basis, our class reps have been great at trying to fight for what we believe is the best course of action for us, in administrations who don't seem to know what they're doing sometimes. There's not a single person I wouldn't feel comfortable talking to. We had a great rapport with some of the teachers (especially in non-clinical years), and I feel close to some of the profs. That changed a bit once we got into clinical years because of some things the administration botched up big-time, but at least it forced them to think about the structure of their program for the next year. In a non-academic setting, we're great for going out although that had to be curbed somewhat once we started clinical years. And my class is notoriously known for hanging out in the gym .

The year above mine, they've got great rapport among themselves as well. The year below me, not as good as ours but still a good bit. They're a little more serious than we are but still have time for some fun.

So in other words, I think the class atmosphere here is quite good. It is what you make it. And actually, the attitude of the north americans is a big determinant in the nature of a class, even though there's only 15-20 of us.

 

[cansnowflake]

Thanks so much for the insight Leorl!

 

[roo]

There is no incentive for the Irish class to be cut throat until the very last year.

The thing that everyone wants to avoid is writing the summer repeat exams. Full co-operation helps meet that goal.

In final year, all Irish students are guaranteed an intern post, however the highest scores are able to get a preferred post in Dublin instead of out in the country area. So all of a sudden there is more of a swell of groups of 3 sharing notes, seeing interesting patients, high volume studying, etc.

Reasons for a Dublin post include social, financial (might live in Dublin), better opportunities in Dublin if want to do a competitive speciality as a reg.
Reasons for wanting a high score in final med is that sort of has an effect on their future: no one at the registrar interviews is going to give a lick about that 1st class honours in histology, but a 2nd class in medicine and surgery will help open or shut a door.

Cheers,
roo

 

[dr strangelove]

There is no incentive for the Irish class to be cut throat until the very last year.

The thing that everyone wants to avoid is writing the summer repeat exams. Full co-operation helps meet that goal.

Agreed. I had friends studying medicine in NUIG and UCD and they told me final year was absolutely dog-eat-dog. Notes stolen, misinformation given out - they told me it was a guaranteed way of losing your humanity!

 

[leorl]

Oh yeah, that's another thing we should mention. Your grades mean squat until final year. For us - in 4th year, 10/% of surgery and 10% of medicine marks came out of an Osce. A little more will count in 5th year, but the majority of marks and where you really want to do well is final year. I think people may feel the brunt of competition then, but in general it's quite cooperative because you can use each other's contacts, use each other to practice on, etc.

 

[ronin13]

There is no incentive for the Irish class to be cut throat until the very last year.

The thing that everyone wants to avoid is writing the summer repeat exams. Full co-operation helps meet that goal.

In final year, all Irish students are guaranteed an intern post, however the highest scores are able to get a preferred post in Dublin instead of out in the country area. So all of a sudden there is more of a swell of groups of 3 sharing notes, seeing interesting patients, high volume studying, etc.

Reasons for a Dublin post include social, financial (might live in Dublin), better opportunities in Dublin if want to do a competitive speciality as a reg.
Reasons for wanting a high score in final med is that sort of has an effect on their future: no one at the registrar interviews is going to give a lick about that 1st class honours in histology, but a 2nd class in medicine and surgery will help open or shut a door.

Cheers,
roo

Are there any benefits to doing your internship in the more rural areas of Ireland? I know that in Canada, some clerks/residents actually prefer these settings, as you get a lot more hands on experience, and are able to assist in almost everything (instead of waiting in line behind 4 other students).

 

[roo]

Are there any benefits to doing your internship in the more rural areas of Ireland? I know that in Canada, some clerks/residents actually prefer these settings, as you get a lot more hands on experience, and are able to assist in almost everything (instead of waiting in line behind 4 other students).

I really don't know.

But it seemed to be a pervasive belief all the way up the stovepipe from med student->intern->registrar->specialist reg that they needed their postings letters to be from recognizable hospitals and working with consultants that were name brands. Ironically the typical 'reference letter' in Ireland is about 2 sentences long: "I worked with roo, and he performed his duties satisfactorily. Signed, Dr. Famous-Consultant-Who-Because-roo-Got-To-Work-With-Me-That-Alone-Says-He-Is-Good"

Part of it too I think is that because there is such a "must do internship in Dublin or other big city" mentality for so long, that when the interviewers see a rural-heavy internship, they automatically think that it is because their med school performance was in some way suboptimal.

From experience in the rural area in Ireland, it was fine teaching, and you had more of the run of the hospital (less people there), so got to do the more interesting cases yourself, as you say.

Best wishes,
roo

 

[roo]

Agreed. I had friends studying medicine in NUIG and UCD and they told me final year was absolutely dog-eat-dog. Notes stolen, misinformation given out - they told me it was a guaranteed way of losing your humanity!

Dr. Strangelove is correct. For students earlier on: bear in mind the logistics however: it works out very well among the Irish and US/Canadian students together for 5 years.

Preclinical and early clinical years: majority of Irish students had to study like a sunofabitch in high school to get the points to get into medschool, and now enjoy a few years of kicking back with some years of grades that are throwaway. Meanwhile, US/Canadian students going full on to be able to perform well on US/Canadian examinations.

Final med: Irish students study hard to get good internship. US/Canada students don't even have their final med marks count as part of their internship process (since applications are sent in October and don't graduate until next May). Therefore: it is reversed: US/Canada students then get to put up their feet and just have to pass whereas Irish students have to worry about the points. Lots of "P=MD" [Pass = Medical Doctor], and "Five Oh and Go" comments among the US/Canada students in final year.

In social psychology, there is an effect called the "Triplet Effect" which in a sentence pretty much says, that you can run a race faster if there is someone keeping pace beside you. So both the Irish in early years and US/Canada in final year get helped by having go-getters beside them helping them be less likely to fail and repeat the course.

Best wishes,
roo