Australian medical school vs. SMP and reapply to US

[kmfrank]

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Hello,

My name is Kevin, and I'm finishing up my undergraduate degree this year from the University of Michigan with a concentration in Biochemistry. I'm very interested in becoming a doctor, but unfortunately my stats (GPA 3.2, MCAT 32S) didn't get me into any US med schools this year.

So my choices, as I see them, are to complete a Special Master's Program (currently awaiting decisions from two, but they've informed me that I am "very competitive" and "should be fine") next year and reapply to US med schools with a higher GPA, or possibly, after reading this forum, attending the UQ medical school, to which I just applied.

I'm not certain about my ultimate goals with regards to medicine - right now, I'd probably like to come back to the States to practice (and thus complete my residency), and I know of the difficulty passing the USMLE part 1, and am certainly willing to prepare on my own for that exam. But if I like Australia, then staying is definitely not out of the question.

By the way, does the Aussie med school's clinical learning environment help students do better on the Step 2? No one's mentioned it yet, that I noticed, so I was curious.

Anyway, I was just curious as to what some of the folks here could suggest or give me their thoughts on my situation.

I've heard that U of Queensland was competitive with some of the top 10 med schools in the US, and if that's the case, I think it might behoove me to take advantage of the program, if I get in.

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I am actually currently based in Australia, I am just working here not in medical school but I am familiar with the process, your stats would be fairly strong for Aussie schools because they really do not value your GPA as much as US schools. That being said did you only look at MD programs? DO is a route I am planning to take over Australia for a number of reasons. First of all, Australia's system of education is very different from the US, they don't gear the education for you to pass the USMLE. Also its a lot easier to get into a good residency if you go to a school in the US, whether MD or DO. Financial aid tends to be more generous, the Stafford loan limit for US schools is much higher than any foreign school.
The big problem I find with Australia is that they don't have the kind of work ethic that is in North America, people are way too laid back here. This is an okay place to visit but if you are coming here with the expectation that your education and training will be the same, you will be disappointed.
As far as DO vs. MD in the USA, I find people who think down about DOs are just plain ignorant. As far as staying in Australia...its going to be nearly impossible to do that because there are too many medical schools and not enough residency programs for the new graduates. Maybe if you marry an Aussie girl that could change things but its going to be tough.

 

[redshifteffect]

I am actually currently based in Australia, I am just working here not in medical school but I am familiar with the process, your stats would be fairly strong for Aussie schools because they really do not value your GPA as much as US schools. That being said did you only look at MD programs? DO is a route I am planning to take over Australia for a number of reasons. First of all, Australia's system of education is very different from the US, they don't gear the education for you to pass the USMLE. Also its a lot easier to get into a good residency if you go to a school in the US, whether MD or DO. Financial aid tends to be more generous, the Stafford loan limit for US schools is much higher than any foreign school.
The big problem I find with Australia is that they don't have the kind of work ethic that is in North America, people are way too laid back here. This is an okay place to visit but if you are coming here with the expectation that your education and training will be the same, you will be disappointed.
As far as DO vs. MD in the USA, I find people who think down about DOs are just plain ignorant. As far as staying in Australia...its going to be nearly impossible to do that because there are too many medical schools and not enough residency programs for the new graduates. Maybe if you marry an Aussie girl that could change things but its going to be tough.

I agree with Janikey in some things and disagree in others.

I agree that you are best off staying in the US and trying harder to get into a US school since that is where you want to practice. You are going to have an easier time getting a match in the US with a US degree - there is no doubt about that. What Janikey failed to mention however is that US medical schools (both DO and MD enrollments and the number of schools) have also been increased and residency positions have been cut. In a few years time the US will be overcrowded with doctors (similar to Australia) and so you will be better off with a US degree.

Now as for Australia having a laid back attitude...what's wrong with that? You say that as if it's a negative thing. How is working 90-100 hours a week good for you or a patient? Is sacrificing a family life "good" so you can be a doctor? Is not getting paid overtime really fair if you work 2-3x harder then the average person?

One thing about Australian doctors is that they are paid well for the work they do, and they are mostly able to maintain a good lifestyle. In North America you are expected to work hard for less reward, and if you think that's a good thing then you're better off in North America.

Finally the Australian curriculum is not geared for the USMLE that I will agree with, but I have seen no evidence that the USMLE will make you a better doctor. In fact as mentioned in another thread many American doctors can't pass Australian licensing exams...because what a surprise, they weren't trained for them! It's pretty farcical to expect a country to train their own graduates for another countries exams. From what I've seen the clinical training in Australia is on par with the best institutions in the rest of the world. What you will have problems with though is the medical curriculum is not geared towards the USMLE.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Personally I find that laid back attitude to be a little too much. The quality of services here in Australia are very poor compared to the US and Europe. Go to an electronics store here...it can take ages before a salesperson is ready to help you. Things like Broadband Internet and Mobile phone services are ridiculously overpriced. For example for an iPhone you have metered broadband usage, Americans get unlimited data. Those are just small examples. I am pretty sure the OP only applied to MD programs, he is definitely a strong candidate for DO schools, and my own stats are comparable to his.

Australia has nice sun and beaches, sure. But I personally would not want to live here more than a couple of years. Although US schools are increasing seats and some residency programs are being cut, new ones are coming in their place. The US will have a far more severe doctor shortage than Australia, especially in the primary care field and in rural areas in the US. I spoke to a local doctor in NSW who said the shortage is around 2,000 doctors, whereas in the US they will be 100,000 short by 2020.

The differential in pay for Aussie vs. US Doctors is only during residency, and fyi, many doctors spend years in Australia as residents before becoming a consultant. I personally have a few friends who left medicine because it was too difficult to specialize. As far as US attending physicians vs. Australian consultants, US doctors earn a lot more. A decent self employed GP in the Sydney region earns between $160k to $300k AUD, most family doctors in private practice that I know in the US earn considerably more. Rural GPs make more but personally I would not want to live in rural Australia(Telstra is the only reliable Mobile provider in rural areas) Taxes in the US are lower, consumer products and housing are generally more affordable. Flying to Europe economy from Sydney costs more than flying from New York on Business class, actually nearly double on a Sydney to Paris route vs. New York to Paris Route, and there tends to be far more demand from NY despite the closer distance. I spend about $3000 AUD a month for an apartment in Sydney and I still have cockroaches...but Australia has great beaches and you can pretty much go to a beach year round.

I have also noticed that keeping a healthy lifestyle here is actually far more expensive than in the States, things like health club memberships are outrageous, healthy foods like fruits and veggies are extremely expensive. When I was in the market a couple of days ago it costed nearly $20 for a small bag of almonds.

I would seriously advise Kevin the OP to come here for a few months to see if he would really like it here and to visit the campus of several medical schools before making the plunge. Honestly someone with his stats should seriously look at the DO route. If you want to stay in Australia to work by all means this is a great opportunity otherwise.

As far as getting in ...with your stats you will most likely make it to a Grad Entry program. I believe the application cycle will open up in a couple of weeks. That being said there are very wide gaps in Basic Science education here. Look up the thread created by a North American student who studied for the USMLE, he had to essentially teach himself many of the sciences for the Step 1.

 

[redshifteffect]

Unlimited broadband in the US? I think you're behind times - TWC was recently scuffed for trying to impose 40Gb (max) caps...and comcast already has 250Gb caps. Sure they are higher then Australia but then bandwidth is 10x cheaper in America then here, so why even impose caps (ie it's not necessary over there). Mark my words the US is already moving towards metered billing...and if you follow any sort of American tech community you will see people have realised that this in inevitable.

As for mobile phone prices sure compared to Europe Australia is more expensive, but the unlimited plans here are much better value then in Europe - and in Australia you can't advertise unlimited unless it is so. Read the ToS of European providers and their unlimited broadband data is sometimes as little as 1gig. What about Canada? It's a country with the same population density and relative size as Australia yet mobile plans in my experience offer less value for money. A $30 recharge there (plus tax of course) last me 2X less then a $30 recharge here (on prepaid) because I was paying for incoming calls....and when you compare the value of a cap plan (even with the high calling rates) with a similar $30 recharge there it's much better value. I was paying Fido $30 just for unlimited incoming...no outgoing included.

I don't know about you but I know plenty of US GPs and they get salaries of $150k to $170k. How can Sydney GPs (that are self employed) only be getting 300k? The average GP job (which I posted links to earlier) gets 200k-250k. But anyway even if your figures were correct you aren't taking into account the other money earners GPs have here (like Surgical assisting) or Private ED work...which are basically cash cows. I've been unable to find similar work in the US or Canada. Or you can work 100% locum as a GP....and you can see the salaries I posted there...again I have been unable to find similar opportunities in Canada or the US.

Now as for the specialist training taking longer...it depends on the speciality. Yes compared to the US it's at least 1-2 years longer (Pathology in the US is now 4 years but was previously 5 years, and in Australia it's about 6 years including internship and in Canada it's still 5 years). The problem is that since residency isn't difficult and you don't apply after graduation many Australians don't know what they want to do...so they spend years deciding. Also many don't realise that they aren't competitive enough to get into a program so again they spend years trying to get in. In the US if you don't get in after your first try most would give up and take whatever they get...sure some try again down the track but that's not common...so it's really difficult to compare the two systems.

Telstra the only reliable mobile in rural areas? LOL how many rural areas have you been to? I've been all over and Optus and Vodafone work just fine.

Sydney is the most expensive city in the world - and your rental prices would be comparable to New York (cockroaches and all) if anyone was seriously thinking about settling in Sydney I would strong discourage them from doing so. Melbourne would be a better option as they actually have affordable housing only 30 mins from the CBD...you can't just label Australia when only having lived in Sydney. That's like saying New York is a rat hole so the whole of the US must be as well.

Okay as for shortage - I have no idea where you are getting your numbers from but they are wrong. There is going to be a huge shortage here...the average age of GPs is 57!!! I've provided a link for that on another thread somewhere...that means in the next 5 years most of the GP population will be retiring...leaving huge coverage gaps even in major cities...

As for cost of living, I think no one is arguing that that is cheaper in the US..however lifestyle is better here. Please most of the average population in the US is lucky to get 2 weeks of vacation a year...so sure your trips to Europe are cheaper, but then you only get half as much time there anyway!

 

[Excanuk]

Great, this has degenerated into a typical North American whinging session just like the UQMS forums.

As a surgical trainee I've been to various conferences and talks all over the world and compared salaries of Attendings/Consultants and basically my findings are that Australia has it pretty good. Europe is over flowing with doctors so you can forget about working there, and many American doctors hate working for HMOs. Overhead costs are also much higher in the US then here, particularly since you get free office space from the private hospitals, and you have very low malpractice insurance.

Canadian doctors still work crazy hours, and aren't compensated as well because of the fact that they have a purely public system. The private system here can pay very well, and there are plenty of opportunities to increase your revenue.

In general the extra years of training tend to make more well rounded doctors and I was shocked when some of my consultants had experience in areas outside of their field...you tend to get more tunnel vision working in the States/Canada.

As for lifestyle I think in general in most fields Australians work less then their counterparts. If they worked the same kind of hours (as in the States) they would get paid a lot more, particularly if they worked privately...but this is from comparing hours/pay from various specialists all over the world. Take a look at many GPs in Australia - many work only 4 days a week, and in my experience the salaried GPs get paid about 1.5x - 2x more then in Canada. There is also a lot of competition in Canadian cities and so Family doctors there tend to work longer hours just to keep their patients. Other then after hours GPs there are few that work past 5pm. In the US Family doctors do not get paid as well in rural areas, which is the opposite of the situation here. So if you get a J1 waiver and work in the rural US you will be doing so with any extra compensation...at least here you know that you will have a significantly higher salary. There are many GPs in Australia that are able to work full time as locums because of the severe shortage of GPs in rural areas. Someone on the forum posted links to salaries of $8000+/week with all expenses included...I have never seen salaries like that for GPs/Family doctors in the US or Canada.

However there is no doubt that cost of living can be more expensive then in parts of North America - I'm originally from Vancouver and the cost of living there was very high and somewhat comparable to Sydney. If you move outside places like that to say Newcastle or Wollongong it's not as bad.

I had to LOL at the iphone getting unmetered in the US. Obviously you haven't read ATTs fine print..it's a 5gb cap. But don't take my word for it look it up for yourself.

The problem with the US training program is that they require private funding in many instances...so if the economy goes south a lot of training positions get cut. With the US being in as much debt as it's in now I can't see how funding will magically increase in the next few years. There are a lot of new US DO schools opening up, and many MD schools have drastically increased their enrollments...so even if your numbers were right (which I don't think they are) it doesn't matter if there was a shortage of a million people, the problem will be the training spots.

 

[redshifteffect]

Nothing wrong with a spirited debate...I don't think this is a whingefest.

The bottom line is that Australia has many pros and cons, and the same can be said about other countries. I think it's impossible to accurately predict where you will be happiest unless you actually work in that location and experience what it's like working there. There may be many other factors to consider as well like family etc.

So I guess you have to weigh up these factors as best as you can and decide what you want and then go for it. If you find you are not as happy as you thought you would be then I guess you can always try for something else...

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I actually live in Sydney for the time being and I am also dating a GP, I think my data sources are quite accurate. There is an article about what the average Aussie GP earns, the average comes out to around 275k a year self employed. GPs working for someone else do not earn that kind of money.

Lifestyle is very subjective, I think people are over knocking America too much these days. I personally find a lot of services and products in Australia to be lower quality than the US. Cars and electronics as well as brand name clothing tends to be far more expensive in Australia than in the US. Very few Aussies drive high end BMWs or Benzes because they are insanely expensive.

As far as economic problems if the US is trouble, Australia will follow, the Aussie is way off its peak of nearly .97 US cents a high that took nearly 2 decades to reach. Australia's economy is highly tied to the external global economy. China maybe Australia's biggest trading partner but China is also connected to the US and experiencing a major slowdown. Also China is a Communist nation that represses basic human rights. So that would have very serious implications for Australia if China eclipsed the US in the Pacific region.

I am well aware of the decrease in training spots and increase in medical school places in the US, that is why I advised at the original OP should consider DO schools. The OP stated his goal is to take the USMLE and work in the United States, he is much better of trying the DO route instead of a foreign medical school.

As far as US doctor income, 150-170k is average for PCPs who happen to work for someone else but those in private practice earn a lot more.

Also as far as Australia having a better standard of living than the US, don't make me laugh. I live here now and its nowhere near the standard found in America. Even middle class Aussies use buses to travel around the country. There are many North Americans studying Medicine but if Australia is so wonderful why do most of them leave once they finish their studies? Very few stick around and North Americans are notorious for jumping ship from Australian internships once they find something in the US or Canada.

I never said I wanted to practice medicine in Europe but I love traveling there and living in Australia would make it far more difficult for me to go there.

Don't get me wrong... Australia is a nice place but I don't want to be here forever, a year or two is okay in my book but honestly the US is much better. Even the Canadians I run into in Oz quietly admit this.

Australia also has a dark side, this is the place where the British threw away their trash, this country actually has a higher crime rate than the US. Assaults and stabbings are very common in Sydney, gang violence is common(In fact a gang killing occurred in Sydney Airport of all places) there is also a lot of racial issues here, only a few months ago groups of hooligans ran around Sydney assaulting people who were not Caucasian. Look up the Manly riots. It would take another 50 years before someone like Obama could be Prime Minister of Australia.

 

[redshifteffect]

I actually live in Sydney for the time being and I am also dating a GP, I think my data sources are quite accurate. There is an article about what the average Aussie GP earns, the average comes out to around 275k a year self employed. GPs working for someone else do not earn that kind of money.

Lifestyle is very subjective, I think people are over knocking America too much these days. I personally find a lot of services and products in Australia to be lower quality than the US. Cars and electronics as well as brand name clothing tends to be far more expensive in Australia than in the US. Very few Aussies drive high end BMWs or Benzes because they are insanely expensive.

As far as economic problems if the US is trouble, Australia will follow, the Aussie is way off its peak of nearly .97 US cents a high that took nearly 2 decades to reach. Australia's economy is highly tied to the external global economy. China maybe Australia's biggest trading partner but China is also connected to the US and experiencing a major slowdown. Also China is a Communist nation that represses basic human rights. So that would have very serious implications for Australia if China eclipsed the US in the Pacific region.

I am well aware of the decrease in training spots and increase in medical school places in the US, that is why I advised at the original OP should consider DO schools. The OP stated his goal is to take the USMLE and work in the United States, he is much better of trying the DO route instead of a foreign medical school.

As far as US doctor income, 150-170k is average for PCPs who happen to work for someone else but those in private practice earn a lot more.

Also as far as Australia having a better standard of living than the US, don't make me laugh. I live here now and its nowhere near the standard found in America. Even middle class Aussies use buses to travel around the country. There are many North Americans studying Medicine but if Australia is so wonderful why do most of them leave once they finish their studies? Very few stick around and North Americans are notorious for jumping ship from Australian internships once they find something in the US or Canada.

I never said I wanted to practice medicine in Europe but I love traveling there and living in Australia would make it far more difficult for me to go there.

Don't get me wrong... Australia is a nice place but I don't want to be here forever, a year or two is okay in my book but honestly the US is much better. Even the Canadians I run into in Oz quietly admit this.

Australia also has a dark side, this is the place where the British threw away their trash, this country actually has a higher crime rate than the US. Assaults and stabbings are very common in Sydney, gang violence is common(In fact a gang killing occurred in Sydney Airport of all places) there is also a lot of racial issues here, only a few months ago groups of hooligans ran around Sydney assaulting people who were not Caucasian. Look up the Manly riots. It would take another 50 years before someone like Obama could be Prime Minister of Australia.

I think you'll be making a lot more then 275k if you're self employed. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the incomes. There is also a big discrepancy in the pay between city and rural, which doesn't exist in North America. Also there are no Private ED jobs or GP locum jobs that pay $1000-$2000/day that I know of in the US that you can do as a GP (or even RMO) unless I'm missing something. The potential income here is much greater. I've actually provided links on other pages that actually back up these claims + have actually worked in many of these jobs.

Most things are made in China - so I don't know about lower quality...to me it's the same. As for BMW or Mercs...we've discussed this before but the reason they are more expensive is because of the import duties. Personally I know a lot of people working low paid jobs in Canada who can afford to lease a Merc...kind of lowers it's value don't you think? At least people who drive them here, can actually afford them.

DO training programs are a lot less then MD training programs, and with the increase in MD/DO students many DO students will have to get into MD training programs...so I don't know how going to a DO school will help. In fact from everything I've read you would still be worse off compared to a US MD...but you would be better off then an IMG MD.

Standard of living is subjective - I'm talking about lifestyle. Does the average GP in the US or Canada work 4 days a week? Do they have at least 4 weeks off a year? The average person in the US/Canada works a lot harder..and I don't think you can convince me otherwise. There is a reason that many US/Canadian grads do not want to do General practice...

The US may have many advantages, but I believe Australia also has many advantages over the US...it really depends what you want in life.

Higher crime rate then the US? That is a new one! Please show me a link to back this up. The US has the highest gun crime rates in the world..

Just because Obama is president of the US that doesn't mean all of a sudden all the racism in the US has disappeared.

 

[Excanuk]

Also as far as Australia having a better standard of living than the US, don't make me laugh. I live here now and its nowhere near the standard found in America. Even middle class Aussies use buses to travel around the country. There are many North Americans studying Medicine but if Australia is so wonderful why do most of them leave once they finish their studies? Very few stick around and North Americans are notorious for jumping ship from Australian internships once they find something in the US or Canada.

Don't get me wrong... Australia is a nice place but I don't want to be here forever, a year or two is okay in my book but honestly the US is much better. Even the Canadians I run into in Oz quietly admit this.

I guess I could pose the same question to you, if Canada and the US are so great then why are there literally thousands of students from there studying medicine/dentistry/pharmacy etc overseas? Why are there thousands of students with bachelors degrees sitting there unemployed?

It's easy to argue about these things when you're sitting on a secure job making a lot of money, but not that easy when you've got $40-$50k in debt after a bachelors degree and you're tossing up between working at Old Navy or Tim Hortons.

How typical this has been my experience of many Canadians as well...on the surface telling Australians how much they want to stay and doing everything they can to land a job and then trying to get licensed back in Canada.

Many have trouble getting matches in the US mainly because of the fact that they do not have a US Greencard, and of course CaRMs is a joke...so they end up staying.

The irony in this is I guess they romanticize how good life is back in Canada, and I've met just as many who return to Australia and resume their careers here.

Many of my classmates from USyd that did general practice and 'experienced' life as a GP in Canada came running back. They were shocked at the high overhead costs for General practice, the isolation in the rural towns they were working in and the fact that the cost of living in many Canadian cities has gone through the roof (have you lived in Calgary or Edmonton before).

The problem is that many of us North Americans are materialistic and keep chasing the next car or house..and if that's the kind of life you want I agree North America is the best place to be.

*Edit*

For anyone interested in taking a look at what is going to happen in the US re: residency positions here is the relevant thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=619719

 

[JanikeyDoc]

If you want to go to an Australian medical school to work in Australia...by all means...so be it. The original OP is trying to use an Australian degree as a substitute for an American one, this is a very hard path. The fact is that its going to get harder to match into the US as an IMG..unless you want to be a primary care doctor.
Like I said Australia is a nice country but it has plenty of issues, namely I don't have family here and the OP probably does not either. Australia is also a fairly materialistic country..not as much as America but more so than Europe.
Australia is a nice place to live but honestly I do not want to be stuck here forever.
By 2012 there will be a doubling of medical school graduates which means that internships will be much harder to obtain for international students. Canadians have double jeapordy in that Carms is hostile to IMGs and they need a green card or a visa to work in the US, which under the current climate is going to be hard to obtain. In my opinion I think its a big risk to go overseas for Medicine, the OP should really look at the DO route.

 

[Excanuk]

Finally we agree or something!

If you want a better chance at working in the US get a US degree.

 

[shan564]

To the OP: one reason why I decided against the SMP route was because it still doesn't guarantee anything. You can do the SMP, but you still may or may not get into an American school. Also, the SMP will take another year of your life - personally, I'd rather graduate from Aus and use that extra year (or more) to help gear my CV better towards the American residency programs.

 

[pitman]

By the way, does the Aussie med school's clinical learning environment help students do better on the Step 2? No one's mentioned it yet, that I noticed, so I was curious.

I can only speak for the handful of UQ grads who've taken the USMLE in the past few years, but Step 2 has not been considered difficult. For that matter, I only know of one who failed Part 1 first time around out of about a dozen who've applied in the past 4 years.

I've heard that U of Queensland was competitive with some of the top 10 med schools in the US, and if that's the case, I think it might behoove me to take advantage of the program, if I get in.

I'm not sure how that's being measured, but I wouldn't give UQ that much credit as far as any measurable stats are concerned. I think with the newish Head of School, UQ is pushing to increase its international profile through a number of initiatives, and will succeed to some extent, but for now I'd think of it as a decent school, if not a large one with growing pains, in another country where its grads are competent.

As far as admissions go, some of the N. Americans are top 1% on the MCAT, some just make the cutoff (24). Though my knowledge of the admissions stats are a few years old, apparently the standards have been rising slowly over that time. 32S is I am certain still a very good score though.

As for education, students usually come back from clinical terms saying that they have had to beef up on their science knowledge but they've been fine clinically, though the hours are much longer in the US (particularly those doing surgery terms), while those who rotate in Canadia often say that they think their UQ clinical knowledge is on par with or superior to what they find there. Those are merely anecdotes of course.

As for placement after, UQ is only now starting to get meaningful stats -- the number of N Americans has gone from around 10 in my grad year (2007) to over a hundred per year for the new intakes. From my year, it's either 2/3 or 3/4 have gotten spots to those applied, and for 2008 grads, it's looking like 9 out of 10 Canucks applied have gotten Canuckian spots.

But while meaningful in some sense, I've never taken such stats too seriously. I've always been a strong believer that people ought to do what they want to do, then figure out how. Those who want to come to Australia should know why they want to, and if they set their mind on it, they'll later end up where they want. I.e., stats are stats, and who among us is not special? 😉

As to claims that N. Americans here or anywhere in Oz are a bunch of whingers -- take that with a large grain of salt. The claim is most often made by a very small bitter minority and by trolls who thrive by inciting the discussion boards (like SDN a number of years ago).

 

[pitman]

...for 2008 grads, it's looking like 9 out of 10 Canucks applied have gotten Canuckian spots.

Correction - 9/11:

IM x3 (Western)
radiology (UT)
anesthesiology (Western)
psych (Dalhousie)
Family Med (Queens)
Rural Family Med (UBC)
Neurosurg

With one of the 2 who lost out not participating in the 2nd round.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Its still best to try out US schools, either DO or MD, before trying any foreign schools.

 

[pitman]

Hmm...not sure why the need to repeat your opinion in response?

My correction was of my direct response to the OP's comments about UQ in particular, not an argument to come to Oz to return to the States. I'd think he can probably come up with an opinion on his own! Weird stuff.

 

[shan564]

Its still best to try out US schools, either DO or MD, before trying any foreign schools.

Be careful before you choose a DO school though - personally, I'd like to travel and live in various different countries over the course of my life. If you do a DO, it won't be recognized in most of the world outside the US.