Australian physician salary data

[boanssi]

The training is longer, but it's also much less unpleasant. In the US, trainees work ~80 hrs/week for $40k/year... Australian trainees work ~50 hrs/week for ~$70-130k/year (depending on what stage of training you're at).

Does this number include out-of-hours work?

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[Leforte]

Depends on the specialty - Most residents (ie not in a training program) are rostered 37.5 hours per week. our current PHO gets ~ $45 per hour. The PHO is scheduled to work 37.5 hours per week - and is allocated 1/2 day off per week to meet this requirement. The PHO is also required to work 1 in 2 weeks on call - S/He is paid 1/10 hourly rate while on call - and if called in, paid a minimum of 1.5x the hourly rate and a minimum of 2 hours if called in (some states it is a minimum of 3 hours) - so if they are called in for a 15 minute consult - they are paid a minimum of 3-4.5x their hourly rate - it is a minimum of $135-$162.

When I was on call as a resident in the USA - I got $0. When I got called in I got $0. If I worked all night, I got $0 above my salary. I made $35-40k per year in training. An Aussie ENT trainee (in a training program) can easily make $200k+ per year as a trainee. I know several board certified ENTs in the USA who make less than this - and have completed their training.

The trainees in Australia are paid, appropriately, far more than many other countries for their time and work.

 

[boanssi]

Sounds great!
How hard is it for a medical specialist to get a job over there? Are there a lot of job offers for medical specialists?

 

[shan564]

Sounds great!
How hard is it for a medical specialist to get a job over there? Are there a lot of job offers for medical specialists?

Depends on the specialty. It's generally a buyer's market if you don't mind practicing in the community (especially if you want to go to a rural/semi-rural area, where you'll also get a pay bump), but it can be pretty competitive if you want an academic job.

On the other hand, it can be pretty tough to get a spot in a specialty training program. Most people are able to do it if they want to, but you have to work hard. Unlike the US, you can keep doing extra years of general "residency" until you get into your desired training position.

 

[Medstart108]

I have a question. How are the living costs in urban Australia (Sydney) compared to the US or Canada? For example, how much is coffee, fast food, rent lets say in Sydney (in the city, but not downtown). I've heard that everything in Australia costs double what it does in the US. Is that true?

 

[shan564]

I have a question. How are the living costs in urban Australia (Sydney) compared to the US or Canada? For example, how much is coffee, fast food, rent lets say in Sydney (in the city, but not downtown). I've heard that everything in Australia costs double what it does in the US. Is that true?

 

[cgkc]

On the other hand, it can be pretty tough to get a spot in a specialty training program. Most people are able to do it if they want to, but you have to work hard. Unlike the US, you can keep doing extra years of general "residency" until you get into your desired training position.

Hi Shan,

For an international med student studying in Aus ( from either USA or Canada) hoping to get a residency back home after med school. We can usually only hope for a non competitive residency (eg. family medicine ,IM, psy...).

From your quote above, does that mean if I want something more competitive and if I am lucky to get an Aus internship then it will be easier in Aus because I can keep doing extra years of general "residency" until I get into my desired training position?

Thanks

 

[shan564]

Hi Shan,

For an international med student studying in Aus ( from either USA or Canada) hoping to get a residency back home after med school. We can usually only hope for a non competitive residency (eg. family medicine ,IM, psy...).

I wouldn't say that. You have a better chance in a less competitive program, but I don't think you can "only hope for" one of those programs. I know plenty of people who matched in more competitive programs.

From your quote above, does that mean if I want something more competitive and if I am lucky to get an Aus internship then it will be easier in Aus because I can keep doing extra years of general "residency" until I get into my desired training position?

Yes, you can keep doing extra years until you get your desired spot. I wouldn't say that this makes it "easier"... some would say that three years of extra work is the opposite of "easier"... but it does mean that you have better chances if you're willing to put in the time. On the other hand, that time is spent with a reasonable workload and solid pay, so it's still a decent job to have.

 

[Leforte]

Shan564 makes some good points -

You CAN do resident years to build your CV - to a certain point, After a while - if you have not gotten a training position - I can think of few places who will want you for extended PHO years.

You need to use your residency years/PHO years to build your CV.

Last year we had 15+ applicants for 1 PHO position. The person we choose did well on their initial specialty application, but was lacking in research - something we could provide to him/her. We would never take someone who had been doing PHO jobs for several years - they are a waste of time.

Other specialties may be different - which is why it is important to have a mentor in your field. Each specialty is different in Australia.

 

[bcrocker]

I have a question. How are the living costs in urban Australia (Sydney) compared to the US or Canada? For example, how much is coffee, fast food, rent lets say in Sydney (in the city, but not downtown). I've heard that everything in Australia costs double what it does in the US. Is that true?

yes, I studied abroad there during undergrad and it was ridiculous. for example, a candy bar that would cost $ .75 here costs $3 there.

 

[rayjay]

yes, I studied abroad there during undergrad and it was ridiculous. for example, a candy bar that would cost $ .75 here costs $3 there.

Maybe for NA-specific brands. Mars, Snickers, etc. are all roughly the same, give or take a few cents

For more important things there are ups and downs, like anywhere! (Also, when you take into account the much higher minimum wage, all the prices aren't actually that bad...)

Rent - can be manageable in the smaller capitals like Adelaide. I've heard Sydney is a very different story though. Live with housemates, its affordable. I'm not paying significantly more than I would if at home.

Coffee at chain restaurants isn't that different. At Hudsons (a chain) you can expect to pay around $4 for a double shot latte. I worked in coffee back home, that's standard. Eating out is *moderately* more but when you consider that you don't add tip and tax on top of your meal, it works out to almost the same. I have been to Melb and Syd as well as didn't feel especially strained for eating out.

Utilities - Can be pricey. Electricity costs a lot. Cell phones are cheap. Internet is expensive for what you get (ADSL2+).

Electronics - on the whole they are more expensive. But if you get "home brand" TVs, etc. instead of your Samsungs, Sharps and LGs then its a bit better.

Cars - expensive but you can get cheapish second hand ones (Gas prices fluctuate a lot though so sometimes its worth keeping an eye on the pumps around fill-up time. You don't want to fill at $1.55 on Monday only to drive by on Wednesday to see it at $1.33...which happened to me last week!!! )

Alcohol - ...bring as much duty free as you can, then pay people to bring more for you.

All that being said, the AUD has dropped substantially in a relatively short period of time, so my CAD is going to go a lot further when I transfer across my $90103948382034343 for international fees

Edit: I'm in Adelaide so not as pricey as Sydney. But even my friends here from Melbourne and Brisbane don't consider Adelaide a significant drop in price, so its probably roughly the same. For the record none of them live Downtown, they all live outside the city around a 15-20min drive from downtown.

 

[Nazia hassan]

A few comments:

Yes trainee docs in Aus earn much more than those in North America.

However, the pay for fully qualified GPs is immensely variable, due to the business aspect of the practice. It is said that an average GP makes ~ 100K. A GP earning 200K probably owns his/her own business and hires other GPs. GPs on salaries who work in medical centres may struggle to earn 100K.

Also, staff specialists (ie fully qualified doctors based in public hospitals) rarely earn more than 200K. Superannuation and professional development allowance are not payments you can take home, so your inclusion of these into the 'salary' is questionable.

Your final comment (convincing your folks that income as docs in Aus is good) suggests to me that you've already decided to stay and work in Australia after finishing med school.

You should keep in mind that by 2014, the number of medical graduates from Australian universities will be almost double that of now (eg ~650 in NSW in 2008, ~1100 in NSW in 2014) due to several medical new schools opening up. This means that there is a real possibility that you will not get an internship spot. So unless you also prepare to go back home (ie sit the USMLE etc), you may find yourself in a very difficult situation.

Just so you know..

Hi . Ten years later i am replying to this post, alot must have changed by now.. my husband is an mbbs doctor from Pakistan worked in saudi Arabia for 10 years as a resident/gp in a major hospital. How much do u think he may earn minimum in Australia being a doctor from asia and are the jobs easily available. Please do reply
Thanks in advance .

A few comments:

Yes trainee docs in Aus earn much more than those in North America.

However, the pay for fully qualified GPs is immensely variable, due to the business aspect of the practice. It is said that an average GP makes ~ 100K. A GP earning 200K probably owns his/her own business and hires other GPs. GPs on salaries who work in medical centres may struggle to earn 100K.

Also, staff specialists (ie fully qualified doctors based in public hospitals) rarely earn more than 200K. Superannuation and professional development allowance are not payments you can take home, so your inclusion of these into the 'salary' is questionable.

Your final comment (convincing your folks that income as docs in Aus is good) suggests to me that you've already decided to stay and work in Australia after finishing med school.

You should keep in mind that by 2014, the number of medical graduates from Australian universities will be almost double that of now (eg ~650 in NSW in 2008, ~1100 in NSW in 2014) due to several medical new schools opening up. This means that there is a real possibility that you will not get an internship spot. So unless you also prepare to go back home (ie sit the USMLE etc), you may find yourself in a very difficult situation.

Just so you know..

Hi . Ten years later i am replying to this post, alot must have changed by now.. my husband is an mbbs doctor from Pakistan worked in saudi Arabia for 10 years as a resident/gp in a major hospital. How much do u think he may earn minimum in Australia being a doctor from ASIA and are the jobs easily available. Please do reply
Thanks in advance .

 

[pitman]

Where he is from doesn't matter. He'd have to work in an Area of Need under the Moratorium for 5-10 years (see other threads to understand this if yo don't already). But as a GP in a private practice, expect $125-$150k. A bit less for practices that bulk bill (i.e., those that do not charge an out-of-pocket fee). If he were to locum as a GP, he could easily make $200k+.

 

[BGDino]

Where he is from doesn't matter. He'd have to work in an Area of Need under the Moratorium for 5-10 years (see other threads to understand this if yo don't already). But as a GP in a private practice, expect $125-$150k. A bit less for practices that bulk bill (i.e., those that do not charge an out-of-pocket fee). If he were to locum as a GP, he could easily make $200k+.

He will have to pass the AMC exams to get an AMC certificate first, which can be an expensive and lengthy process. In NSW (the most populous state, where Sydney is) employment law requires employers to hire Australian citizens ahead of workers from overseas first to a vacancy, only when they can’t find an Australian to fill the position are they permitted to hire a non-citizen. Spots for the GP training program in urban areas are extremely competitive and so trainees from overseas usually end up with a rural network. With a medical degree from Pakistan he’d most likely have to redo some training.

 

[BGDino]

FWIW: in Australia, salaried public hospital attending jobs (staff specialist/consultant) may not pay as well as the private sector but they are sought after and extremely competitive in urban centres as they’re usually at a major teaching hospital, to the extent that for some medical and surgical specialties you practically need a PhD to be competitive for one. Reasons why:

• You’re guaranteed a salary, paid annual leave, paid sick leave, paid staff travel for conferences to a set amount each year
• Your working conditions are protected by an Award agreement
• You will have a team of junior doctors to look after your admitted patients (vs a private hospital where you have to do everything yourself)
• If you have a patient who’s very unwell from your private practice you can admit them to the public hospital under your care with your team to help out (see above)
• Most appointments are fractional (part time) allowing you to mix your public hospital work with your private work

The jump in pay is significant. When I moved from the top grade of registrar pay to the first year of staff specialist pay I also went from full time to part time (50%) hours, and my take home pay is probably a couple of hundred bucks a fortnight higher! More money for half the hours

All staff specialists in all specialties get the same contract and salary, the difference in how much each specialty makes is usually dependent on their private work. Which probably explains why the ROAD specialties still come out on top for hours/pay balance.

The tax office here released their list of the top 10 professions paying the most tax, medical specialists had 8 out of the 10 top spots...

 

[pitman]

He will have to pass the AMC exams to get an AMC certificate first, which can be an expensive and lengthy process. In NSW (the most populous state, where Sydney is) employment law requires employers to hire Australian citizens ahead of workers from overseas first to a vacancy, only when they can’t find an Australian to fill the position are they permitted to hire a non-citizen. Spots for the GP training program in urban areas are extremely competitive and so trainees from overseas usually end up with a rural network. With a medical degree from Pakistan he’d most likely have to redo some training.

I was attempting to answer Nazia's actual question rather than outline the process of emigrating as an IMG -- such is an entire topic in itself which can be looked up or asked about elsewhere. Where her husband is from does not affect how much he would make as a practicing *GP* here.

If her husband comes to work as a GP, say in a clinic, then what I have said above is correct. If he works as a hospitalist as a GP, his pay could be anything up to about $300k depending on where he were to work, which as per the Moratorium mentioned above (and the fact that he'd be a GP) would preclude him from virtually all urban centres you're talking about, for 5-10 years (i.e., he'd be a rural generalist).

The pay for GPs in rural hospitals is not fixed the way they are by specialty in urban hospitals, even in NSW, since GPs get massive rural incentives which vary depending on rurality. If he has an additional advanced skill that gets recognized, he could make significantly more, particularly in Qld and WA.

 

[Domperidone]

Not really a fair comparison. The bottom 10th percentile of ENT earners in the US is $212,000USD (284k AUD) as per MGMA database. Someone earning less than 200k AUD would be bottom 1-2% of earners, certainly a notable exception and not a norm.



Agreed. Australia is probably the only country on the planet to pay residents/junior doctors the true value of their training and knowledge without trapping them in exploitative work conditions for slave wages.

It's a good thought. However, life is less cruisey for registrars - unless you're GP/pathology etc. It catches up with you eventually.
It's common sense, if you pick a lifestyle friendly field, it'll be lifestyle friendly.

The traditionally not-lifestyle-friendly ones will remain that way. For example, medicine & surgery and their subspecialties.
Depends on hospital, but some registrars or advanced trainees have 24-72 hr on call shifts. As in, they take consults and referrals that whole stretch of time, if things go pear shaped they may go in. If you're a cardiology or stroke AT, you have to attend codes relative to those specialties, to do things like 'activate cath lab'. Surgery is no different. The system is protective of say interns (generally). Less so for registrars. In terms of hours. It still is relatively more lifestyle friendly than North America. But you can still end up with a 80-100 hr work week depending on field as a reg. There is however, more freedom to move around training fields/specialties in Australia (relatively).

Training is longer in years, so depends on how you see it.
Poorer compensation as a trainee in North America sure, but shorter years. Return of earnings as a consultant/attending comes far sooner, if you look at it that way.