Autistic horse????

[lyndaelyzoo]

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What a scam!!!! Seems like this woman is mocking autism and trying to make money off of a horse that she "rescued". I'd love to hear what you think...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsPhJ5sO5uA

 

[Coquette22]

Can't watch it with sound right this second, but what about him is autistic, exactly??

 

[runnervet]

i never heard the part she was asking for money. i think she did a good job with him. however i wouldn't agree that he never new horse language and he doesnt know he's a horse. he followed her around when she walked away from him and that IS horse body language.

 

[Pandacinny]

If you go to her website, she has a "store" where she takes donations of up to $100 to provide for his care. She also sells the video and an MP3 of them playing together.

 

[cowgirla]

Right, saw this about a week ago.
First off, I don't consider autism to be a "mental illness" as she refers to it.
While I think it's possible for a horse to show some tendencides towards autism, i don't think that's the case here. This horse's problems were caused by being locked in a stall for two years-- you can't "cause" autism. She claims the horses inability to read herd dynamics is from autism...or maybe its from being locked in a stall and never seeing other horses?
I think whatever difficiencies that horse has are environmental rather than biological.

(The full article is available here: http://www.site.missywryn.com/Benny_the_Autistic_Horse.html )

And frankly, I think the paypal buttons after every paragraph are just rude. But I won't get into that again, already had this "discussion" with some friends.

 

[quantized]

Mom and I got through about 20 sec of Benny the Autistic Horse, but then we got distracted by the clip on the side of "The Worst Riding of my Life," which was way more entertaining.

We also just decided our cat is autistic. Anyone want to make donations to help fund Pushy's therapy?

 

[HoneySmucks]

Mom and I got through about 20 sec of Benny the Autistic Horse, but then we got distracted by the clip on the side of "The Worst Riding of my Life," which was way more entertaining.

I definitely got distracted by "Worst Riding of my Life" as well, and then continued on to "Flying Lesson" which was even more entertaining, and then youtubed people falling off horses and realized I had completely forgot what I was looking at in the first place... ooops. And I would have to agree with cowgirla that this horse's problems are more environmental than anything biological. Who would pay for this video?!

 

[sumstorm]

I don't buy 'autism' as a diagnosis here, but I do find it interesting that people are seperating environment from biology. I find that as problematic as seperating genetics from environment. The two can be inseperably linked. IE being in a loud, noisy environment may permermenantly change how an animals body responds to cortisol..... and I don't think anyone would argue that Pavlov's dogs had a biological response (saliva production) to the ringing bell due to conditioning in the environment.

So, this animal may really have biological changes that affect it's ability to relate to other horses or to even behave in 'normal' fashion. Kind of like the term OCD as applied to animals. Not actually accurate, because the dog can't share how it feels.

 

[critterfixer]

duplicate post

 

[critterfixer]

Well, I am fostering a former research dog who spent 7 years living in a 6 foot run. While she has made some great progress, she is definitely not normal. My best friend, the mother of 1 autistic and 1 asperger's son, tells me all the time the dog acts autistic.

So I don't think it matters whether or not animals have classically inherited autism or if something in their environment causes the behavior. The real point is that these animals DO act like autistics, and we should really think about how we approach them, because there could be a lot of good information to be gleaned that could help those in the human community with autism. Not to mention, it is helpful to apply the same techniques to this dog.

I did not watch the video, but it is not much of a stretch to believe that 2 years stalled in isolation could cause autistic-like behavior in a horse.

 

[cowgirla]

I don't buy 'autism' as a diagnosis here, but I do find it interesting that people are seperating environment from biology. I find that as problematic as seperating genetics from environment. The two can be inseperably linked. IE being in a loud, noisy environment may permermenantly change how an animals body responds to cortisol..... and I don't think anyone would argue that Pavlov's dogs had a biological response (saliva production) to the ringing bell due to conditioning in the environment.

So, this animal may really have biological changes that affect it's ability to relate to other horses or to even behave in 'normal' fashion. Kind of like the term OCD as applied to animals. Not actually accurate, because the dog can't share how it feels.

If you lock a perfectly normal six year old child in a basement/closet (environment) for four years, that doesn't make them become autistic. Yes, they will most likely have all sorts of issues, however, autism won't be one of them. It's a developmental disorder, and usually appears in young children, regardless of whether or not they've suffered some kind of trauma. My point was that this horse's problems are most likely related to being locked in a stall for most of his life, and yes, that may have resulted in biological changes. Autism still isn't something that you can "cause" in the way this article is referring. This horse has socialization issues, but as far as i can tell from the article, he's still a neuro-typical horse. He still wants to interact, with her, and with the other horses, even if he does apparently have trouble "reading" the social dynamics.

I don't think you can separate biology and environment all of the time. However, that also doesn't mean that you can always link them together.

My main issue with this whole thing (not directed at you Sum!) is the number of paypal links on that one website. I frequently donate to causes that I care about, and horses in need/in kill pens are a big one for me. With all the issues that this horse has though, I don't see the need for any major medical care. He appears to be under "control", as sound as he'll ever be. So why the donations? If his owner/trainer/whoever can't afford the basic hay and grain bills, should that become our responsibility just because he happens to be a rescue horse? If that's the case, well, all of my animals are rescues, so hand over the cash.

Maybe we should just classify him as having PTSD rather than autism?

 

[sumstorm]

If you lock a perfectly normal six year old child in a basement/closet (environment) for four years, that doesn't make them become autistic. Yes, they will most likely have all sorts of issues, however, autism won't be one of them. It's a developmental disorder, and usually appears in young children, regardless of whether or not they've suffered some kind of trauma. My point was that this horse's problems are most likely related to being locked in a stall for most of his life, and yes, that may have resulted in biological changes. Autism still isn't something that you can "cause" in the way this article is referring. This horse has socialization issues, but as far as i can tell from the article, he's still a neuro-typical horse. He still wants to interact, with her, and with the other horses, even if he does apparently have trouble "reading" the social dynamics.

I don't think you can separate biology and environment all of the time. However, that also doesn't mean that you can always link them together.

My main issue with this whole thing (not directed at you Sum!) is the number of paypal links on that one website. I frequently donate to causes that I care about, and horses in need/in kill pens are a big one for me. With all the issues that this horse has though, I don't see the need for any major medical care. He appears to be under "control", as sound as he'll ever be. So why the donations? If his owner/trainer/whoever can't afford the basic hay and grain bills, should that become our responsibility just because he happens to be a rescue horse? If that's the case, well, all of my animals are rescues, so hand over the cash.

Ummm....I DID say that I don't buy the autism part of this. I actually think it is impossible to seperate out environment and biology. But that could just be the ethologist in me. Actually I do know a fair amount about autism, and one thing I do know is that we, as a scientific community, do NOT know what causes autism and we do NOT know whether it is environmentally linked (toxins in the environment would still be environmentally linked.) Unfortunatly, I know more about autism than I had ever desired; my younger cousin was diagnosed with severe autism about 20 years ago, then in college I became close friends with a woman whose brother is autistic, which lead to her mother becoming a teacher/therapist specializing in autism. She did a lot of work with autistic individuals as well, and did a lot of research in the psych field, before getting her PhD in psych focused on autism. Of course, she is now a minister. Amazing woman. I am not saying that lack of appropriate care/socialization = autism.... but I am saying we do NOT know environment factors =/= autism yet. I hope we do know soon, though. Oh, and locking an autistic kid up in a room for X years won't make them not autistic....they dont' have to be mutually exclusive, but once again, I don't buy it in this situation, just as I don't buy that we can actually KNOW if an animal is obsessive.

However, really, who cares if they ask for money? Honestly, I wish there was some fine or penalty for 'playing doctor' with animals and diagnosing an ailment like autism when you don't have the education/experience to do so. Having said that, it irritates me to know end to watch 'animal cops' and hear officers who are not vets or even techs diagnose 'kennel cough' and demand a vet visit or surrender for what may simply be reverse sneezing (and i have sene that at least 3 seperate times on the show), and almost always to an individual who is recently unemployed. Really, being on TV makes one a vet? Oh well. not worht the bother. If people rae foolish enough to donate, there isn't much that we can do about it. They are allowed to toss their money in whatever direction they want, and it isn't YOUR responsibility unless you make it so by sending money at it. I do agree it is selfish and coniving...but I guess it just doesn't upset me that much. To be honest, I would prefer money going to her than HSUS and PETA, but that is just me. I help rescue organizations pro-bono with behavior issues all the time; and that is money out of my business and my pocket. Doesn't keep me from having my own rescues and not expecting help; I jsut get to choses what/when/where I spend money!

 

[HandD42]

Ahhh, I missed out the youtube video has been removed...off to see if the article is still up.