Average Earnings, real numbers here.

[TylerDMD]

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From a "Dental CPA" in the Northeast, average numbers from 2004. These are for solo practices. I have no idea how many people are in these averages but it's a big CPA practice in the entire Northeast.

This is cash in the bank, before taxes, but after all expenses, except depreciation (a non-cash expense). This is called "cash basis net income":

General: $310,996
Pedo: $322,292
Perio: $342,043
Oral Surgery: $622,407
Ortho: $469,872

The highest paid general solo was: $1,313,458

 

[Alpha13]

These figures sound a bit high IMO

 

[Rezdawg]

These figures sound a bit high IMO

For what its worth, Ive yet to come across a dentist, not in academia, who has worked more than 5 years and has an income less than around $300,000.

 

[gator1210]

These figures sound a bit high IMO

1 million production at 70 percent overhead....alot of people do over 1 million production....there a post a while back that already discussed it.

I agree with OP

 

[DrBowtie]

It is also the Northeast.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

I have found from DT that only 10% dentists gross 1M plus. This is possible but many dentists choose not to work that much. All the dentists I know can make a 1M gross but they just decide to work 3-4 days instead of 45hrs a week. This guy I know works 3 days a week has a 700K grossing practice and has about 50% overhead, works 3 days(9hrs) a week. You can take home 300K without grossing 1M and in reality many take home 300K without 1M gross. This numbers sound pretty reasonable to me. It does depend on the location a bit.

 

[STARCITY]

From a "Dental CPA" in the Northeast, average numbers from 2004. These are for solo practices. I have no idea how many people are in these averages but it's a big CPA practice in the entire Northeast.

This is cash in the bank, before taxes, but after all expenses, except depreciation (a non-cash expense). This is called "cash basis net income":

General: $310,996
Pedo: $322,292
Perio: $342,043
Oral Surgery: $622,407
Ortho: $469,872

The highest paid general solo was: $1,313,458

troll???

 

[mdub]

From a "Dental CPA" in the Northeast, average numbers from 2004. These are for solo practices. I have no idea how many people are in these averages but it's a big CPA practice in the entire Northeast.

This is cash in the bank, before taxes, but after all expenses, except depreciation (a non-cash expense). This is called "cash basis net income":

General: $310,996
Pedo: $322,292
Perio: $342,043
Oral Surgery: $622,407
Ortho: $469,872

The highest paid general solo was: $1,313,458

That's nearly 2 times what the ADA claims. Sounds fishy.

 

[TucsonDDS]

We have to remember that those numbers come from a Dental CPA. These numbers are the earning of Dentists that are smart enough to use a CPA that knows dental practice. If these dentists are smart enough to use a good CPA they are probably smart enough to run a high end/ high grossing practice and therefor they are probably making more money than the guy having H & R Block doing his taxes at the last minute. I don't doubt the numbers but I don't think they demonstate the average, just the average for his firm. It is the same for Bill Gates financial planner, his clients will have way more money than your average finacial planner because they know the value of his services and can afford his fees.

 

[leehrat]

as a reputable dentist on dentaltown said, the ADA numbers are lowball by ~80k because they don't include bennies or 401k contributions. he thinks the avg should be ~250k for general dentists, and this for those only a few years into ownership.

 

[TylerDMD]

Average Gross revenues for the above net income numbers are:

General: $755,680
Pedo: $811,511
Perio: $874,677
Oral Surgery: $1,031,714
Ortho: $976,316

Oh yes, I forgot endo which grossed $742,542 and netted $385,657

Basically, the conclusion that I draw from these numbers is that you're going to net a lot of money regardless the specialty and you have to be asleep at the wheel to make less than $300K.

Tyler

 

[Utes]

Here's the ADA 2003 survey of income by region.

You can read more here: http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/dbguide/newdent/income.asp

 

[TylerDMD]

For those who think these numbers are high, here's an example of a really LOW VOLUME practice with 1 dentist and 1 hygienist.

196 working days per year (4 days per week taking off 3 weeks per year)

$65 per prophy seeing 10 patients $650
$150 per restoration doing 5. $750
$1000 per crown doing 2 $2,000

Note, this is a really boring, slow, practice, working 30 hours per week and TAKING A LONG VACATION every year!!! At 65% overhead, that works out to a net of $266K on a gross of $666K.

Still think my numbers are too high for a busy practice?

 

[TucsonDDS]

For those who think these numbers are high, here's an example of a really LOW VOLUME practice with 1 dentist and 1 hygienist.

196 working days per year (4 days per week taking off 3 weeks per year)


$65 per prophy seeing 10 patients $650
$150 per restoration doing 5. $750
$1000 per crown doing 2 $2,000

Note, this is a really boring, slow, practice, working 30 hours per week and TAKING A LONG VACATION every year!!! At 65% overhead, that works out to a net of $266K on a gross of $666K.

Still think my numbers are too high for a busy practice?

I was hoping they were actually a little low 😀

 

[12YearOldKid]

For those who think these numbers are high, here's an example of a really LOW VOLUME practice with 1 dentist and 1 hygienist.

196 working days per year (4 days per week taking off 3 weeks per year)

$65 per prophy seeing 10 patients $650
$150 per restoration doing 5. $750
$1000 per crown doing 2 $2,000

Note, this is a really boring, slow, practice, working 30 hours per week and TAKING A LONG VACATION every year!!! At 65% overhead, that works out to a net of $266K on a gross of $666K.

Still think my numbers are too high for a busy practice?

While these numbers are definitely achievable I think it is unrealistic to accept these numbers as the average. Look through the practice ads in the back of JADA. Typical practices are barely GROSSING $350,000.

I think those of you who assume that a practice netting $300,000+ is normal are setting yourselves up for some serious disappointment. Dentistry is going to make us all very comfortable, but let's be a little realistic here, huh?

 

[TucsonDDS]

While these numbers are definitely achievable I think it is unrealistic to accept these numbers as the average. Look through the practice ads in the back of JADA. Typical practices are barely GROSSING $350,000.

I think those of you who assume that a practice netting $300,000+ is normal are setting yourselves up for some serious disappointment. Dentistry is going to make us all very comfortable, but let's be a little realistic here, huh?

Look at the numbers produced by the practices for sale on DentalTown. I would say the average is about 600-650 with many of them close if not over a million a year. I think that many of the practices in the back of JADA are being sold by doctors planning on retireing working 2 or 3 days a week. The practices on dentaltown are by active young and energetic dentists, like all of us will be.

 

[leehrat]

While these numbers are definitely achievable I think it is unrealistic to accept these numbers as the average. Look through the practice ads in the back of JADA. Typical practices are barely GROSSING $350,000.

I think those of you who assume that a practice netting $300,000+ is normal are setting yourselves up for some serious disappointment. Dentistry is going to make us all very comfortable, but let's be a little realistic here, huh?

to be grossing only 350,000 i think you'd have to be both an atrocious dentist and only working 2 days a week. this would also imply that you haven't taken any ce whatsoever and refer out ALL your endo, etc.

 

[HuyetKiem]

to be grossing only 350,000 i think you'd have to be both an atrocious dentist and only working 2 days a week. this would also imply that you haven't taken any ce whatsoever and refer out ALL your endo, etc.

One of my friend had produced more than that as an associate in her second year after dental school. 40 to 45 hrs was her typical work week.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I don't buy those numbers either. Perio making more than Peds? 🙂

 

[Rezdawg]

I don't buy those numbers either. Perio making more than Peds? 🙂

True, Peds is definitely getting robbed in that list...only like .04% more earnings than a general dentist...please. 😀

 

[DrJeff]

That's nearly 2 times what the ADA claims. Sounds fishy.

Not all that fishy for a busy GP, and many specialities in the Northeast. Remember though those numbers are BEFORE you pay you taxes to Uncle Sam, so what you'll end up netting in your personal bank account is roughly a third of that. Plus, and I can personally attest to this one as of earlier this week, the government has many ways of getting their percentage out of your hard earned income 😡 , and my wife and I found out that we have over $15,000 "extra" reasons to find some politicians that want to lower taxes 😡 😡 😱 👎 Basically as a successfull dentist, come tax time, your days of getting a refund check are essentially gone, and your days of writing an extra check have arrived! Ah the price of success!

Or as the old sayings go:

"The more you make, the more you pay in taxes", or my personal favorite,

"I'm rich, ......... atleast on paper!"

 

[DcS]

Here's the ADA 2003 survey of income by region.

You can read more here: http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/dbguide/newdent/income.asp

Woah, a factual post with a graph and a link. I'm about to pass out in shock.

Good stuff.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Remember though those numbers are BEFORE you pay you taxes to Uncle Sam, so what you'll end up netting in your personal bank account is roughly a third of that.

A little backwards...you'll pay roughly a third...

 

[psiyung]

I think all these numbers smell fishy for the average dentist

 

[Typo]

Not all that fishy for a busy GP, and many specialities in the Northeast. Remember though those numbers are BEFORE you pay you taxes to Uncle Sam, so what you'll end up netting in your personal bank account is roughly a third of that. Plus, and I can personally attest to this one as of earlier this week, the government has many ways of getting their percentage out of your hard earned income 😡 , and my wife and I found out that we have over $15,000 "extra" reasons to find some politicians that want to lower taxes 😡 😡 😱 👎 Basically as a successfull dentist, come tax time, your days of getting a refund check are essentially gone, and your days of writing an extra check have arrived! Ah the price of success!

Or as the old sayings go:

"The more you make, the more you pay in taxes", or my personal favorite,

"I'm rich, ......... atleast on paper!"

I certainly don't think our government does the most wonderful job of using our tax money, but I'll gladly pay 1/3 (or 1/2) of my income for the opportunities America offers me. Especially when my income will be in the top 5% (or higher) of people in the wealthiest nation in the world.

 

[FCIllini]

I certainly don't think our government does the most wonderful job of using our tax money, but I'll gladly pay 1/3 (or 1/2) of my income for the opportunities America offers me. Especially when my income will be in the top 5% (or higher) of people in the wealthiest nation in the world.

Because the government knows how to spend your hard-earned money so much better than you, right??

Nothing like being penalized for being successful.

 

[phremius]

Not all that fishy for a busy GP, and many specialities in the Northeast. Remember though those numbers are BEFORE you pay you taxes to Uncle Sam, so what you'll end up netting in your personal bank account is roughly a third of that. Plus, and I can personally attest to this one as of earlier this week, the government has many ways of getting their percentage out of your hard earned income 😡 , and my wife and I found out that we have over $15,000 "extra" reasons to find some politicians that want to lower taxes 😡 😡 😱 👎 Basically as a successfull dentist, come tax time, your days of getting a refund check are essentially gone, and your days of writing an extra check have arrived! Ah the price of success!

Or as the old sayings go:

"The more you make, the more you pay in taxes", or my personal favorite,

"I'm rich, ......... atleast on paper!"

Quit your bitching. Don't like it? Then leave. See if you can enjoy the same amenities and infrastructures at other countries.

What is it with all the fake poverty pleading?? ****ing almost everyone of my friends pulling in 6 figures are bitching about taxes.... "oh God I can barely afford the gas for my Hummer"

 

[Thoreau]

Quit your bitching. Don't like it? Then leave. See if you can enjoy the same amenities and infrastructures at other countries.

What is it with all the fake poverty pleading?? ****ing almost everyone of my friends pulling in 6 figures are bitching about taxes.... "oh God I can barely afford the gas for my Hummer"

Quit your bitching. Don't like it? Then leave. See if you can enjoy the same amenities and infrastructures at other countries.

What is it with all the fake poverty pleading?? ****ing almost everyone of my friends pulling in 6 figures are bitching about taxes.... "oh God I can barely afford the gas for my Hummer"

I think you're missing FCs point. You live an amazing life in this country compared to others because of the PEOPLE of this great country NOT because the government taxes the wealthy and redistributes it to the poor. Look at many of all of our social programs. People thrive in an environment that cultivates creativity, and, you make not like it, but being rewarded well for that creativity drives most to do what they do. We enjoy a greater opportunity for obtaining wealth than many of our European counterparts, and thankfully it has helped keep our unemployment rates well below those of most of their socialist countries.

You're "don't like it just leave" attitude is upsetting considering the conservative fundamentals of this country. Our forefathers limited the government's power in the federal Constitution because they realized it's an inherently corrupt and inefficient system. Yes, they gave the government the power to tax, but didn't give them the right to redistribute wealth. Remember that even though it wasn't the main reason we went to war, a tea tax helped lead to the American Revolution.

Just my 2 cents, but overall I like to think of it this way. You give the government 1 dollar and they make .15 cents out of it. You give an investor 1 dollar and he/she make 2 dollars out of it. In a world with limited resources, I'm in favor of giving the second guy the benefit; 😉 who knows, he might give me a job where I can actually excel and prosper and maybe pass on my good fortune to others. 👍 The government should function ONLY as a safety net, helping to protect life and ensure no one is exploited by those greedy capitalists.. heh

 

[Typo]

Because the government knows how to spend your hard-earned money so much better than you, right??

Nothing like being penalized for being successful.

That wasn't my point. When you pay taxes, you're paying for a lot more than what most people complain about (inefficient government agencies, pay raises for politicians, ridiculous government programs, etc.). Where do the local roads and national interstates you drive on come from? Where does the money for police departments and fire departments come from? National defense? Every other public good you enjoy every day and don't think about?

I'm not trying to turn this into a political and economic flame war. All I'm trying to say is that I'll gladly give up a brand new Escalade or WaveRunner or extra vacation to the Bahamas in order to pay for what living in America affords me. That includes the opportunity to participate in such a vibrant free market system - the very system that allows us to earn so much money! I realize that the government wastes tons of money, but there is hardly a thing I can do about most of it. Focusing on the positives is much more constructive in my view.

Besides, do you really have THAT much to complain about if you're netting $150,000 instead of $200,000 after taxes, or whatever other figure you're making? That's still quite a lot of money we're talking about.

 

[Thoreau]

Besides, do you really have THAT much to complain about if you're netting $150,000 instead of $200,000 after taxes, or whatever other figure you're making? Maybe you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but remember that that's a HELL of a lot of money to most people.[/QUOTE]

Hah, if, by silver spoon, you mean that I was raised on the lower middle class income of a single parent from one of those socialist European countries where you're taxed over 50%, then, yes, you're right. I'm well aware of the lack of entrepreneurship in most of the EU because there are too many government regs and taxes to effectively start a profitable business.

I don't want to turn it into an economic forum either, but those vital services you talk about can be done very well with a lower flat tax rate for all (I understand that low is a relative term) and by providing those with a certain income with government subsidies so they don't end up paying taxes or even end up getting more money back.

A huge chunk of our taxes go into failed and corrupt government SOCIAL programs, not building roads and that sort of thing. Even so, I don't disagree that we need social programs; I'm just not really sure the government should be the one to implement most of them.

 

[DrJeff]

A little backwards...you'll pay roughly a third...

My bad, after meeting with the accountant this week though, it just seemed like I was paying 2/3rds or so and keeping roughly 1/3 😡

 

[DrJeff]

Besides, do you really have THAT much to complain about if you're netting $150,000 instead of $200,000 after taxes, or whatever other figure you're making? Maybe you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but remember that that's a HELL of a lot of money to most people.

A huge chunk of our taxes go into failed and corrupt government SOCIAL programs, not building roads and that sort of thing. Even so, I don't disagree that we need social programs; I'm just not really sure the government should be the one to implement most of them.[/QUOTE]

This last paragraph hits the nail on the head about why as a dentist you'll likely be griping about taxes, alot. If in your practice see patientsassocited with medicaid, you'll see the system being abused, and your tax dollars will be going to fund this. That 200 something million dollar bridge to nowhere thats going to be built in Alaska, pure congressional pork barrel project finaced by your tax dollars.

The "joy" of being a dentist, typically a small business owner too, is that you end up having quite a few legitimate deductions cliamed on your tax return each year. When those legitimate deductions get above a certian percentage of your gross income, you magically qualify for something that the government calls the alternative minimum tax, which is a true misnomer, as it results in you loosing many of those legitimate deductions and you paying above the standard tax rate. For example, in my case this year. my wife and I paid out our taxes at the regular rates for our income levels, and then after the alternative minimum tax was applied, we lost many of those deductions that most other tax payers get, like child tax credits, marriage credits, mortgage interest credits, student loan interest credits and business expense credits.

Plus as a dentist, if your making the "average" dentist income, that will place you in roughly the top 3% of income earners in the U.S. (roughly $140,000 a year), and that same 3% of americans provides over 90% of the income tax revenue colected each year, so will will be paying your fair share and then some. Call me selfish, but I'd raher see more of my tax dollars staying with me, so I can use them to take care of my kids financially, and maybe somday grandkids financially, than seeing it goto the person on food stamps driving the Escalade or buyin gthe Plasma TV. If it just went to, roads, national security and legitimate welfare instances, thats fine. Beyond that level of funding I feel that I can do a better job of managing my earned money than the government does.

 

[seungmka]

where do recent about to gradudate DDS start looking for jobs besides dentaltown or jada classifieds?

anyone from california know how to find associate jobs?

also, which dental placement services are available in SoCAL?

 

[JointDocMD]

wow, you're all millionaires!!

 

[superchris147]

A huge chunk of our taxes go into failed and corrupt government SOCIAL programs, not building roads and that sort of thing. Even so, I don't disagree that we need social programs; I'm just not really sure the government should be the one to implement most of them.

This last paragraph hits the nail on the head about why as a dentist you'll likely be griping about taxes, alot. If in your practice see patientsassocited with medicaid, you'll see the system being abused, and your tax dollars will be going to fund this. That 200 something million dollar bridge to nowhere thats going to be built in Alaska, pure congressional pork barrel project finaced by your tax dollars.

The "joy" of being a dentist, typically a small business owner too, is that you end up having quite a few legitimate deductions cliamed on your tax return each year. When those legitimate deductions get above a certian percentage of your gross income, you magically qualify for something that the government calls the alternative minimum tax, which is a true misnomer, as it results in you loosing many of those legitimate deductions and you paying above the standard tax rate. For example, in my case this year. my wife and I paid out our taxes at the regular rates for our income levels, and then after the alternative minimum tax was applied, we lost many of those deductions that most other tax payers get, like child tax credits, marriage credits, mortgage interest credits, student loan interest credits and business expense credits.

Plus as a dentist, if your making the "average" dentist income, that will place you in roughly the top 3% of income earners in the U.S. (roughly $140,000 a year), and that same 3% of americans provides over 90% of the income tax revenue colected each year, so will will be paying your fair share and then some. Call me selfish, but I'd raher see more of my tax dollars staying with me, so I can use them to take care of my kids financially, and maybe somday grandkids financially, than seeing it goto the person on food stamps driving the Escalade or buyin gthe Plasma TV. If it just went to, roads, national security and legitimate welfare instances, thats fine. Beyond that level of funding I feel that I can do a better job of managing my earned money than the government does.[/QUOTE]


preach brother preach, remember a lot of these peeps are spoiled college kids who don't understand what its like to provide for a family

i know i'm going to get **** for that but i stand with dr. jeff

 

[leia05]

Plus as a dentist, if your making the "average" dentist income, that will place you in roughly the top 3% of income earners in the U.S. (roughly $140,000 a year), and that same 3% of americans provides over 90% of the income tax revenue colected each year, so will will be paying your fair share and then some. Call me selfish, but I'd raher see more of my tax dollars staying with me, so I can use them to take care of my kids financially, and maybe somday grandkids financially, than seeing it goto the person on food stamps driving the Escalade or buyin gthe Plasma TV. If it just went to, roads, national security and legitimate welfare instances, thats fine. Beyond that level of funding I feel that I can do a better job of managing my earned money than the government does.

I'm with you on that one, Dr. Jeff. I have worked at a grocery store here in my native Mississippi for all of my undergrad years to alleviate some of the expense off of my parents. Now, this is going to make the people surrounding my area sound bad, but I have to say it. The social systems existent today are definitely being abused...speaking specifically here regarding the food stamps program. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people walking in through my line wearing expensive clothing and having cell phones that probably cost as much as my car note used to be buying filet mignon and crab legs, etc....and they're on food stamps. WTH??? There are people who genuinely need to be included in programs such as foodstamps, but what's being done to get rid of the bums? I'm not sure how valid they are, but I've also heard stories of women who will keep on having children in order to stay in the program rather than going out and finding a job to support the family already in existence...crazy times, no? I don't mind my money going to help people actually deserving of it-I actually like that-...but I say make the parasites go out and work for a living and contribute to the rest of the nation.

On a side note, what do those of you in actual practice now do when you have patients on the poorer end of the spectrum who also cannot afford access to dental insurance? When I have my own practice, how feasible will it be to do pro bono or reduced rated work for those in need of it, without angering the patients who CAN afford the regular rates? I'm just curious because my mom grew up poor out in the boonies of the country, and I think it would be a good cause to help those who cannot help themselves...My mom's family wouldn't have nearly the trouble they do now if someone had done it for them all those years ago...

 

[wannabedr]

From a "Dental CPA" in the Northeast, average numbers from 2004. These are for solo practices. I have no idea how many people are in these averages but it's a big CPA practice in the entire Northeast.

This is cash in the bank, before taxes, but after all expenses, except depreciation (a non-cash expense). This is called "cash basis net income":

General: $310,996
Pedo: $322,292
Perio: $342,043
Oral Surgery: $622,407
Ortho: $469,872

The highest paid general solo was: $1,313,458

IS ANYONE ELSE GETTING A "HARD ON" JUST BY LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS 😀 😀 😀

 

[GatorDMD]

IS ANYONE ELSE GETTING A "HARD ON" JUST BY LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS 😀 😀 😀

Yeahh Babbby.... 👍

 

[DrJeff]

On a side note, what do those of you in actual practice now do when you have patients on the poorer end of the spectrum who also cannot afford access to dental insurance? When I have my own practice, how feasible will it be to do pro bono or reduced rated work for those in need of it, without angering the patients who CAN afford the regular rates? I'm just curious because my mom grew up poor out in the boonies of the country, and I think it would be a good cause to help those who cannot help themselves...My mom's family wouldn't have nearly the trouble they do now if someone had done it for them all those years ago...

In my office we've set up a program/affliation with the local public health (medicaid) dental clinic. What happens is roughly every 6 weeks, we block off an afternoon (normally Fridays), and tell the coordinator of the medicaid clinic to give us patients(from their patient pool) to fill up 3 hours of 2 doctors and 3 hygenists schedules. We see them pro-bono and then are able to refer them back to the medicaod clinic for further treatment. After we're done seeing the patients, my partner and I either take out our staff for dinner and drinks, or have a dinner party/cook-out at one of our houses for our staff. Also, if we have a medicaid patient whose a family member of one of our regular patients, we may very well just see them pro-bono during regular office hours, as we have found out that thr channels to get what minute amount of $$ medicaid re-imburses (typically 20 cents on the dollar - when your overhead is more like 50 to 60 cents on the dollar) isn't worth all the time it takes, and there in lies the whole access to care problem in a nutshell, you'll have to do 3 times the paper work to get 1/5th the pay 😡

 

[mdub]

Yes, they gave the government the power to tax, but didn't give them the right to redistribute wealth.

Actually, you're wrong. The government was originally given power to make laws for the "general welfare" of the country. It's in the preamble to the Constitution and it's in Article I, Section 8. And if that's not enough, there's the 16th Amendment. And if THAT'S not enough, there are all the post-New Deal cases that say the government has that power.

You're certainly free to argue that taxes should be lowered. In fact, that's a position I'm sympathetic to. But it is not accurate to say that, as a matter of law, the government does not have that power.

 

[mdub]

IS ANYONE ELSE GETTING A "HARD ON" JUST BY LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS 😀 😀 😀

They're inconsistent with everything that has been published in a minimally reviewed fashion. Are you going to trust numbers from some anonymous guy on the internet?

 

[Thoreau]

Actually, you're wrong. The government was originally given power to make laws for the "general welfare" of the country. It's in the preamble to the Constitution and it's in Article I, Section 8. And if that's not enough, there's the 16th Amendment. And if THAT'S not enough, there are all the post-New Deal cases that say the government has that power.

You're certainly free to argue that taxes should be lowered. In fact, that's a position I'm sympathetic to. But it is not accurate to say that, as a matter of law, the government does not have that power.

Take a look at the post-revolutionly government, and you'll realize there were actually very few taxes. There was no such thing as general federal or state tax. There were essentially small taxes on goods mostly. My argument is about the founding fathers of this great country, not the future interpretations. BTW, 16th amendment = 1913, not exactly forefather time. Again, I'm not by any means saying that we shouldn't be taxed; I'm saying it shouldn't divert the money people bring home to reinvest and spend to fuel the economy.

Also, we all know that general "welfare" can meet a lot of things; it can mean that the government has to give everyone a house or it can mean that it has to create the climate necessary to buy yourself a house. As for the New Deal, it was a way for FDR to help people through the horrors of the Depression, and it is socialism. I'm not saying it was or is wrong because it has given us great things in my opinion and helped keep many people alive during that era.

Haha.. a minor point, but I didn't say...
"Besides, do you really have THAT much to complain about if you're netting $150,000 instead of $200,000 after taxes, or whatever other figure you're making? Maybe you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, but remember that that's a HELL of a lot of money to most people." It somehow got linked to my name. It was probably my mistake in replying. Ma bad!

 

[mdub]

Take a look at the post-revolutionly government, and you'll realize there were actually very few taxes.

The fact that they didn't exercise more taxing power does not mean that they didn't have the power. They had the power. It's in the preamble and Art 1, Sec 8. AND it's in the 16th Amend. AND it's in post-New Deal cases. If you don't like the 16th Amend. and the later case law. Fine. You're ignoring U.S. law but fine. You're still stuck with the General Welfare Clause.

There was no such thing as general federal or state tax.

I don't know what "general federal tax" means. But taxes levied by the federal government have been around as long as the United States.

Article 1, Section 8: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Moreover, wealth redistribution has existed for a long time in the United States. The "farm commodity programs" of the late 1700s are examaples.

There were essentially small taxes on goods mostly.

And those taxes were, by Constitutional mandate, equal throughout the United States. That's why I don't understand what you're talking about with reference to "general federal taxes."

My argument is about the founding fathers of this great country,

How much farther back from the Constitution do you want to go?!

I'm saying it shouldn't divert the money people bring home to reinvest and spend to fuel the economy.

And you also said: "but didn't give them the right to redistribute wealth." That's wrong. As I showed above, the government has had that power since at least the ratification of the Constitution. It even used that power to redistribute taxes to farms -- and later railroads -- in the 1700s. Like I said, as a matter of law, wealth redistribution has been legit for hundreds of years.

Also, we all know that general "welfare" can meet a lot of things;

You're right. The federal government has had a lot of power in this area for a long time.

 

[Thoreau]

The fact that they didn't exercise more taxing power does not mean that they didn't have the power. They had the power. It's in the preamble and Art 1, Sec 8. AND it's in the 16th Amend. AND it's in post-New Deal cases. If you don't like the 16th Amend. and the later case law. Fine. You're ignoring U.S. law but fine. You're still stuck with the General Welfare Clause.



I don't know what "general federal tax" means. But taxes levied by the federal government have been around as long as the United States.

Article 1, Section 8: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Moreover, wealth redistribution has existed for a long time in the United States. The "farm commodity programs" of the late 1700s are examaples.


And those taxes were, by Constitutional mandate, equal throughout the United States. That's why I don't understand what you're talking about with reference to "general federal taxes."


How much farther back from the Constitution do you want to go?!



And you also said: "but didn't give them the right to redistribute wealth." That's wrong. As I showed above, the government has had that power since at least the ratification of the Constitution. It even used that power to redistribute taxes to farms -- and later railroads -- in the 1700s. Like I said, as a matter of law, wealth redistribution has been legit for hundreds of years.


You're right. The federal government has had a lot of power in this area for a long time.

I never said the federal government doesn't have the right or power to collect taxes. A point was made that we should stop crying about how much we pay in taxes. My argument is that the federal government and most state governments are too large, and we do pay too much in taxes. The money would better be left in the hands of the people. This is the largest government ever, in terms of dollars and percentage of GDP.

 

[nnjh]

We're not interested in your policital views nor dicussions about the constitution. Why don't you guys PM each other and let the others discuss dentistry?

 

[mdub]

We're not interested in your policital views nor dicussions about the constitution. Why don't you guys PM each other and let the others discuss dentistry?

You obviously didn't read my posts very carefully. My posts were not political. I can't even fathom how you could think they were. All my claims were descriptive.

 

[mdub]

Here's the ADA 2003 survey of income by region.

You can read more here: http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/pubs/dbguide/newdent/income.asp

Why do the Rocky Mountain states do so well? Is it because dentists don't want to live there?

 

[Mare]

Wow...Dentists in the US make a lot! I was under the impression that Canadian Dentists average around $120,000/yr - in Canadian dollars! Maybe I should consider relocating...

 

[CTSballer11]

If you are a dentist working in private practice couldn't you just withold your salary, or even report incorrect earnings. Then you would not have to worry about losing money to taxes, assuming you are a partner.

 

[STARCITY]

If you are a dentist working in private practice couldn't you just withold your salary, or even report incorrect earnings. Then you would not have to worry about losing money to taxes, assuming you are a partner.

you sure could but I think thats called tax evasion.