average for getting in

[outgolfing26]

HI,....i'm interested in gas, but, not sure if i would get in....if I don't care where in the U.S. that I get in....then what would i need on my boards....and gpa and so forth. I've heard that gas is tough to get in...but, there are quite a few available slots out there. Now what would it take to get in...if i'm just looking for a spot in any program. any thoughts?

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[yankeeh8r]

You can check either of the two sticky FAQs at the beginning of the forum for some idea about what people have said/speculated on the boards and grades thing for various tiers of programs. Still, it's all about as random as any application process you've been through before. Apply widely with some longshots, some lowballs and a vast array of programs between the extremes and you'll be able to match and moreover probably match someplace you'll like. Make sure to do a rotation with an anesthesiologist at your program and that they can write you a strong letter. You'll find that the rec letter from the anesthesiologist will really be one of the things that the programs will scrutinize. In the end it's a lot like any job application process. The big difference is just the match process at the end of the whole affair.

 

[wangstar]

HI,....i'm interested in gas, but, not sure if i would get in....if I don't care where in the U.S. that I get in....then what would i need on my boards....and gpa and so forth. I've heard that gas is tough to get in...but, there are quite a few available slots out there. Now what would it take to get in...if i'm just looking for a spot in any program. any thoughts?

i think two things are important for getting into anesthesia and i am speaking about all of this through personal experience.
1. usmle scores ( >230 will get you an interview just about anywhere, just think what >240, >250 will do)
2. who is writing your LOR and how strong is it and who do they know

grades: I think its is true that anesthesia is getting more competitive but there are so many spots available that I believe most of the more competitive programs don't even look too much at your grades (because I think they think grades are a crap shoot and or "subjective") and only are specialties like derm, rad, plastics, ortho, etc where there are few spots available have the luxury of being really picky about grades. don't worry about AOA, an honors in med or surg will do, maybe mixed with a few HPs.

more important in grades is who did you impress in your department and who are their "friends" and where are they pds, chairman, or senior anesthetists who are on the residency selection committee. i feel that every letter the selection committee gets is for a "strong candidates" that it really means something if they know this person or have heard of them. I think a strong LOR from a well known academic anesthesiologist is one of the best things you can have in your application.

getting in to top programs: obviously, most going into anesthesia value their free time. what is great about anesthesia residency is that in order for in order to recruit good candidates they have to cater to this! I think you will find it is easier to get an interview at some of these top programs, say, hopkins (70-75 hrs/wk on avg) than it is at programs in a better 1.location and with 2. better work hours (60-65). And many programs are adding CRNAs to do BS cases or to get residents out of rooms to go home or to go to lectures. Its hard to pull the trigger on going to one of these "elite" programs at least at this point in time because you can get top clinical training that is near equivalent to, say, hopkins that you can get at any of the top 30 programs that will make you highly desired for either an academic or private career just about anywhere in the US that you might be happier going to.

 

[outgolfing26]

hey, wangstar....how'd you know i'm in a DO program?....hmm.....ok...well...thanks for the reply...but, i really wanted to know....like what's the minimum do you feel it would take to go into gas..or even to persue gas...cuz my grades are ok...but, my boards ...suck.......so i don't even know i have the minimum.....to even consider.gas....cuz if i do..i'm scared that i will not match...also, if you have any advice where to rotate....for fourth year....that would be appreciated too....in other words....who, in anesthesia, should i befriend...thanks...

 

[Idiopathic]

Well, to start off with...more periods would definitely help.

All kidding aside, when he said "Dont worry about AOA" he didnt mean the osteopathic association, he meant Alpha Omega Alpha, the MD honor society.

 

[wangstar]

hey, wangstar....how'd you know i'm in a DO program?....hmm.....ok...well...thanks for the reply...but, i really wanted to know....like what's the minimum do you feel it would take to go into gas..or even to persue gas...cuz my grades are ok...but, my boards ...suck.......so i don't even know i have the minimum.....to even consider.gas....cuz if i do..i'm scared that i will not match...also, if you have any advice where to rotate....for fourth year....that would be appreciated too....in other words....who, in anesthesia, should i befriend...thanks...

didn't know you were in do school? look, i believe its really multifactorial- i have a friend who matched at a "top 10" school last year with a 210 step one from a 2nd tier md school. what I would do if I was in your shoes- take step 2 before you apply and try your best to do as well as you can (>220, >230). think about doing some research or getting into the OR with the most well renowned person either at or near your school and try your best to impress them so they will be pulling for you- maybe the chairmen, pd, of your school or former chair/pd/alumni from a school you might like to go to- be very prepared before you go into the OR with them and be eager, excited, professional, etc. then, consider doing an away rotation at a school within your reach or where you think you might like to go or where you think this person could help you get in and work your hardest to impress the people at that school (maybe they will help you get in as well).

Another side note, when it comes time to apply to schools, it might be worthwhile to customize you personal statement to the schools so they will take you more seriously in getting an interview. I've talked to some chairs, etc on the interview trail and they have commented that the reason why they modify their rank lists based on letters, phone calls, etc is that they would rather take somebody who is really interested because they will be happier at their program and will encounter less of these people leaving, etc.

remember there are a lot of programs out there ( i think like 100) and i only think that it is even somewhat competitive at maybe the top 50 or so. i don't think you would have any problem matching if you followed the above steps- even despite potential board score problems.

 

[medlaw06]

...what I would do if I was in your shoes- take step 2 before you apply and try your best to do as well as you can (>220, >230).

good advice. my only question is when do you think is a good time to take step 2? would you say July/August? The reason why I say that is because if the application process starts around september, I am assuming that you want your step 2 scores to be in by that time and since it takes around 1.5 months to get the scores, july/august is the best time, right?

(Apologies for sounding stupid, but I am an MSIII)

 

[yankeeh8r]

good advice. my only question is when do you think is a good time to take step 2? would you say July/August? The reason why I say that is because if the application process starts around september, I am assuming that you want your step 2 scores to be in by that time and since it takes around 1.5 months to get the scores, july/august is the best time, right?

(Apologies for sounding stupid, but I am an MSIII)

Usually, right at the end of your third year is the best time to take Step 2 (we're talking June/July here). Just make sure you've got all your major rotations behind you (ie. Medicine, Surgery, Neurology, OB/Gyn and Peds) and if possible a week or two of Ortho or Uro can be helpful. The idea is to take the thing when the material is in your head and still fresh. That's when you'll get the most bang for your buck.

The "Rule of 2's" in studying for the test holds true: "2 months for Step 1, 2 weeks for Step 2..." the rest of that saying is "2 days for Step 3" which many of my post-intern friends have told me is also true.

Taking the test in mid-June/early-July will mean your scores will be back in August/early-September. Remember, it's all about taking it when the material is fresh in your mind. My friends and I who took it in June/July with 2 weeks of studying found our scores improve across the board (mine was up 20+ points). My friends who took Step 2 later and/or studied longer saw their scores either remain stable or go down a couple of points.

 

[cak]

good advice. my only question is when do you think is a good time to take step 2? would you say July/August? The reason why I say that is because if the application process starts around september, I am assuming that you want your step 2 scores to be in by that time and since it takes around 1.5 months to get the scores, july/august is the best time, right?

(Apologies for sounding stupid, but I am an MSIII)

I took my Step 2 in September and had my score by the middle of October. I took one of my vacations in my fourth year to study for it. I think anytime up to the middle of September is good to take Step 2 if you definietly want to report the score. Then when you are filling out your ERAS application you can specify that you are taking Step 2 and request that the scores be automatically transmitted once they become available. Also, if I remember correctly, it took a couple weeks less to get my Step 2 score than my Step 1 score. If you're taking Step 2 to help boost your application, take your time studying for it, take it by mid-September and you'll be fine.
Good Luck!

 

[rn29306]

And many programs are adding CRNAs to do BS cases or to get residents out of rooms to go home or to go to lectures.

My facility:
25 full-time MDAs
51 CRNAs

MSA population over 450,000
Level 1 peds and adult trauma center with air ambulance
Full caseload of trauma, vascular, neuro, crani, open heart, peds craniosynostosis
3600 + operations / month
sole county OB anesthesia provider
Anesthesia outside of main adult/peds OR:
- radiology
- peds GI
- hospital based OP eye center
- cardiac cath

Here's the kicker: Been at this facility for about a year. Have NEVER SEEN A MDA RUN A CASE. Above cases handled by senior SRNAs and CRNAs.

Guess our little hospital just does "BS" cases. Interesting.............

 

[ASA HOUSE MD]

My facility:
25 full-time MDAs
51 CRNAs

MSA population over 450,000
Level 1 peds and adult trauma center with air ambulance
Full caseload of trauma, vascular, neuro, crani, open heart, peds craniosynostosis
3600 + operations / month
sole county OB anesthesia provider
Anesthesia outside of main adult/peds OR:
- radiology
- peds GI
- hospital based OP eye center
- cardiac cath

Here's the kicker: Been at this facility for about a year. Have NEVER SEEN A MDA RUN A CASE. Above cases handled by senior SRNAs and CRNAs.

Guess our little hospital just does "BS" cases. Interesting.............

Well said. MDAs are the Generals whereas cRNAs are the foot soldiers. I have yet to hear of any state that allows cRNAs to practice autonomously.

 

[rn29306]

This was in response to a statement where CRNAs do BS cases and exist only to allow residents to attend lecture or go home early.

Pull your heads out of that slit in the back of your white coat and open your eyes to reality.

 

[InductionAgent]

Beware: out of virtual thin air, this thread has turned into MDA v. CRNA. Soon, someone will cry to mommy (aka SDN moderator): "THEY'RE FIGHTING AGAIN, MAKE THEM STOP!!," and this thread will be closed.

 

[wangstar]

look man- if you wanted to be a doctor you should have gone to med school.

i continue to find it completely amazing how PA or CRNAs, whatever think they are so great but face it, you were not smart enough to go to med school or you didn't have the work ethic. now you've found a loophole that lets you at least pretend to be one where the reality is you haven't put in the classroom time, the clinical time, or the study time to understand more than pattern recognition. the reality is, the ABA maintains that anesthesia is an MD field and that all of it must be done under the supervision of MDs. This will not change because without med school and residency you don't really understand what happens before or after surgery, and you aren't that well equipped to handle crisis either. your boss will always be an md. don't get me wrong, have no problem with crnas or pas, they serve an important role in hospital operation, just you people who have something to prove ever since you got your 18 on the mcat. go back to the student nurse network website.

 

[rn29306]

wangchung:.
didn't apply to med school, never wanted to so i guess your 18 mcat comment doesn't fly. your other comments sound like canned ABA responses. if that is what you believe, then so be it. our figurative loophole has been around for a long time, we are such sneakers and cheats of the system. i give it a couple more decades of rape of the medical community, so learn to live with it.

i am resigning from this community, if only some of the mdas will do the same to crna sites. you guys have no clue, no wonder you have personality problems in dealing with people when you graduate.
have fun pre-oping people and signing forms the rest of your life, the rest of the lazy monkeys and myself that have pattern recognition down pat will be running cases


look who is crying and whining now...

 

[24858]

I'm fine with nurses playing doctor, but they shouldnt be paid 100K per year, now that is the true rape of the medical community!

 

[skypilot]

I'm fine with nurses playing doctor, but they shouldnt be paid 100K per year, now that is the true rape of the medical community!

These nurses have a four year undergraduate nursing degree, over a year in critical care, plus a two year masters degree, plus have completed a certain number of anesthesia cases. Why shouldn't they be earning 100k?

 

[24858]

A lot of these nurses dont even have a bachelors.

 

[bluegill]

A lot of these nurses dont even have a bachelors.

Wrong.

One can practice as a Registered Nurse with an associate's degree, but in order to enroll in a masters program such as CRNA, a nurse must have a Bachelor's Science Nursing (4 year degree).

You may notice that a lot of nurses have "Jane Doe, RN, BSN"' on their badges - that is because they have a 4 year bachelor's degree.

I don't know what UNECOM stands for, but if COM stands for "college of osteopathic medicine," then I would expect you to have some sympathy for unfairly maligned health professionals. Some hospitals hate hiring CRNA's. Some hospitals hate hiring DO's. Both sets of hospitals need to get over themselves and learn about all of the many valid accredited health professions.

 

[skypilot]

CRNA's programs grant a Master's degree after 24 to 36 months of study. Nurses entering the program must be experienced critical care R.N.s who already hold a bachelor's degree.

http://www.aana.com/crna/careerqna.asp

 

[ASA HOUSE MD]

This was in response to a statement where CRNAs do BS cases and exist only to allow residents to attend lecture or go home early.

Pull your heads out of that slit in the back of your white coat and open your eyes to reality.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[impetigo]

I have yet to hear of any state that allows cRNAs to practice autonomously.

There are 11 or so states that have opted out of the requirement that requires CRNAs to work under the supervision of an anesthesiologist. Mostly small states, but still this does not bode well for our specialty!

 

[allendo]

CRNA's and nurses deserve their respect. You should'nt hold yourself in such high regard. Why not pay them 100k when they do the freakin work!! It's obvious you are lacking in personality and medical experience. The goal is to work as a team for the patients benefit. People like you are ingnorant and should not be in the profession!

 

[allendo]

Hey just another thought! I wonder why people consider doctors to be arrogant
and they don't speak of nurses that way? Thanks for keeping the stigma alive!!!