Average Publications of Successful Applicants

[NeuResurgens]

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Really depends on the school. Top tier schools regularly have 90% classes with research experience, while others have much fewer coming in with significant experience.

 

[efle]

Really depends on the school. Top tier schools regularly have 90% classes with research experience, while others have much fewer coming in with significant experience.

90% is a bit low. More like 95%+. I was in denial for a long time about how necessary it is to have that box checked...but finally just had to admit I was screwed if I didn't take a gap year.

Even at midlevel schools 80+%s are common.

Though without knowing the % of the premed population that does it, can't really say how much schools are selecting for it

 

[NeuResurgens]

90% is a bit low. More like 95%+. I was in denial for a long time about how necessary it is to have that box checked...but finally just had to admit I was screwed if I didn't take a gap year.

Even at midlevel schools 80+%s are common.

Though without knowing the % of the premed population that does it, can't really say how much schools are selecting for it

I only looked at a couple in detail, so I suppose I was trying to be a bit conservative in my estimation of the rest. But I agree, a lot of research experience is generally necessary for successful bids to top tiers. It might vary more from school to school with midlevels and lower tiers due to different emphases, but I figure it's safest to err on the side of having more research experience. I think publication stats would be very interesting to look at, as some schools prefer pubs while others just want sustained experience in a lab, etc.

 

[chemist16]

After stepping away and reading this thread again, I was kind of disappointed I rarely got any numbers. The point of this was that I wanted to get a sense of SDN sentiment/profile and overall applicant profile. Thank you for your kind words of advice, but I'm looking more to compile data than to discuss how much research experience is necessary/required. Thanks!

 

[WedgeDawg]

After stepping away and reading this thread again, I was kind of disappointed I rarely got any numbers. The point of this was that I wanted to get a sense of SDN sentiment/profile and overall applicant profile. Thank you for your kind words of advice, but I'm looking more to compile data than to discuss how much research experience is necessary/required. Thanks!

A sample from SDN isn't going to be very large and is going to be skewed towards the upper end of applicants, so I'm not sure how feasible this will be if you're looking to do a large scale compilation.

 

[chemist16]

A sample from SDN isn't going to be very large and is going to be skewed towards the upper end of applicants, so I'm not sure how feasible this will be if you're looking to do a large scale compilation.

I want to compare SDN to the overall applicant pool. So a sample from SDN is appropriate to gauge the number for the SDN population. I also asked for what people thought the average for the overall population was but it looks like nobody is addressing that except for Goro.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I want to compare SDN to the overall applicant pool. So a sample from SDN is appropriate to gauge the number for the SDN population. I also asked for what people thought the average for the overall population was but it looks like nobody is addressing that except for Goro.

I gave an answer of 0-1, while @gyngyn stated that it was "uncommon" for an applicant to have a publication.

 

[chemist16]

I gave an answer of 0-1, while @gyngyn stated that it was "uncommon" for an applicant to have a publication.

Thank you for your input. Is the 0-1 your estimate for the overall applicant pool? And if so, what was your stated publication count for yourself in the SDN sample (if you care to share)?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Thank you for your input. Is the 0-1 your estimate for the overall applicant pool? And if so, what was your stated publication count for yourself in the SDN sample (if you care to share)?

0-1 for the MD applicant pool (applied and accepted), probably closer to 0 than 1. I do not yet have a publication. I think the overall SDN premed community for any given year would still be between 0 and 1, but perhaps slightly higher than the MD applicant pool (though still closer to 0 than 1).

 

[chemist16]

0-1 for the MD applicant pool (applied and accepted), probably closer to 0 than 1. I do not yet have a publication. I think the overall SDN premed community for any given year would still be between 0 and 1, but perhaps slightly higher than the MD applicant pool (though still closer to 0 than 1).

Huh. Interesting. I mean, from some profiles I've seen on here, you'd think that SDN people were churning out publications/posters/abstracts like crazy.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Huh. Interesting. I mean, from some profiles I've seen on here, you'd think that SDN people were churning out publications/posters/abstracts like crazy.

Most likely self-selection. Also posters and abstracts are very different from publications. This past year alone I have had at least 5 posters / presentations. Posters are more transient than publications and thus don't require quite as much time to create.

 

[familyaerospace]

I would assume 0 for most applicants.

I have approximately a bazillion or so it seems like it, all first author but I am by far an outlier.

My graduate adviser is already like "Hey you got into med school? Great! Congratulations, we are going to restart your research and get you more articles and presentations. Your name is more valuable now."

 

[Holmwood]

I would assume 0 for most applicants.

I have approximately a bazillion or so it seems like it, all first author but I am by far an outlier.

My graduate adviser is already like "Hey you got into med school? Great! Congratulations, we are going to restart your research and get you more articles and presentations. Your name is more valuable now."

If you were the average applicant, then 99.9% of us wouldn't stand a chance, haha! Congrats on getting in once again. Absolutely amazing life experiences.

 

[Mad Jack]

Most people have a couple posters, maybe a middle author pub. SDN is full of the extremely qualified with first authorships, half a dozen pubs+presentations etc. It's the exact same with the MCAT, SDN has a huge over-representation of 34+ scores

SDN is outlier central. I'm a DO with a 95+% MCAT score FFS. We're not the norm, and this is hardly real life.

You don't need a published paper to get into MD or DO school. A pub will help you, but is not required. Research experience without a pub is likely damn near as useful as having one, as adcoms are more interested in the fact that you have experience in research than the outcomes of said research, since you were an undergrad and the outcomes of said research were likely beyond your control to begin with, published or not.

Having a published paper>having research experience>no research experience, but there are diminishing returns with multiple pubs or experiences, as research is more of a checkbox category that you either did or did not do than the defining portion of your app.

 

[familyaerospace]

If you were the average applicant, then 99.9% of us wouldn't stand a chance, haha! Congrats on getting in once again. Absolutely amazing life experiences.

Thank you.

I still don't fully believe it. Maybe I will believe it when I pick up my keys to my new rental next week. ;-)

 

[mw18]

0 pubs for me.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Yo, average joe chiming in here to say I got accepted to a solid mid-tier program with 0 pubs...and 0 research experiences at all.

 

[Grace184]

Wait I don't understand what your point is. I was validating your research by stating that it's exactly the kind of research that people do after getting into medical school.

Oh I'm sorry... Yeah it is. But it's hard to explain I guess bc as a pharmacist it's really the only research you do is retrospective drug analysis studies. And it I run my own projects and crunch my own numbers, etc. I think it just threw me when you said it was the same this med students do because I feel it's a lot more complicated than that. My students get to see the pretty package at the end but the don't know I'm up til 1am entering data, etc, then, the statistical analysis, etc. think of it like comparing a resident (medical) to a med student. I still wore a pager. I still had on call night and weekends etc. I'm just educating. A lot of people don't know there things about pharmacy residents or clinical pharmacists in general.

 

[NickNaylor]

Anecdotally, publications are relatively rare. When I was interviewing for my institution, most applicants had a couple of "research experiences" that resulted in poster presentations/abstracts, but pubs were still not particularly common. I would guess that the average number of publications for an accepted applicant is closer to zero than, say, 3 or 4. However, it isn't uncommon for people to be involved with a couple of different projects, particularly if they have a strong interest in research.

 

[gyngyn]

After stepping away and reading this thread again, I was kind of disappointed I rarely got any numbers. The point of this was that I wanted to get a sense of SDN sentiment/profile and overall applicant profile. Thank you for your kind words of advice, but I'm looking more to compile data than to discuss how much research experience is necessary/required. Thanks!

I can give you the mode: 0.

 

[Grace184]

Yea

After stepping away and reading this thread again, I was kind of disappointed I rarely got any numbers. The point of this was that I wanted to get a sense of SDN sentiment/profile and overall applicant profile. Thank you for your kind words of advice, but I'm looking more to compile data than to discuss how much research experience is necessary/required. Thanks!

sorry it got derailed 🙁 I would say 0-1, 0 being the average applicant to medical school. It is pretty rare (we're talking about apx 22 y/o). I think most of us who have pubs have been in other fields, at least the other ones I know, so we've been around a bit longer

 

[Goro]

It's hard enough for grad students and post-docs to get pubs!!

Anecdotally, publications are relatively rare. When I was interviewing for my institution, most applicants had a couple of "research experiences" that resulted in poster presentations/abstracts, but pubs were still not particularly common. I would guess that the average number of publications for an accepted applicant is closer to zero than, say, 3 or 4. However, it isn't uncommon for people to be involved with a couple of different projects, particularly if they have a strong interest in research.

 

[Gandyy]

Most people have a couple posters, maybe a middle author pub. SDN is full of the extremely qualified with first authorships, half a dozen pubs+presentations etc. It's the exact same with the MCAT, SDN has a huge over-representation of 34+ scores

This.

You have to understand that even a 30 is a pretty good MCAT score, however when you come to SDN, everyone here makes that 30 look like a 15. Also most people here have 7.8 GPAs as well.

Many people here will also have 4.5 billion first author publications.

On a more serious note though, very few pre-meds have publications. A considerable amount of presentations but even then, most people do research for a like a year or two just to put it on a resume.

Its pretty rare from my experience to see an applicant with 3 years of research or more though. Thats getting up there in time commitment.

 

[Grace184]

It's hard enough for grad students and post-docs to get pubs!!

I feel like it depends on the field and type of research. Everyone loves a good case study or an obtuse drug-drug interaction.

 

[northernlights15]

:/ she's going to have a fairly rough cycle. You should definitely encourage her to apply to more schools that are in-line with her stats. I hope she manages to grab an acceptance. Without something exceptional, her app will probably be DOA at half the schools on that list.




As I said earlier, it depends on who you're sampling. Do you really think that the group of students who interview at Drexel will have (on average) the same number of publications at the group of students who interview at Stanford or Yale? Successful applicants to top schools represent a very small portion of medical school applicants. Overall, you won't see too many people with many publications. At research-heavy schools? Probably a good deal more.

She's not going to make it to OHSU without 32 mcat or above, unless she's from around that area. As for the other schools.... Lol. Good luck to her!

She had limited funds for application fees and her reasoning was that she didn't want to waste them applying to schools she didn't like. She is really hard working and really only has one bad year pulling her GPA down. And rushed to take the old MCAT before the new one came out.

I hope she gets in somewhere as well! It would be really sad to see her not get in anywhere.

She met people at conferences who are professors at medical schools who told her to call them up when she applied and they said they'd vouch for her. I have no idea how much weight that holds. She claimed that's the reason she added some of those top schools.

I also find it strange that medical school professors would say that to someone they just met (they said that to her after her PI introduced her to them and the PI is respected within her field).

 

[Gandyy]

She had limited funds for application fees and her reasoning was that she didn't want to waste them applying to schools she didn't like. She is really hard working and really only has one bad year pulling her GPA down. And rushed to take the old MCAT before the new one came out.

I hope she gets in somewhere as well! It would be really sad to see her not get in anywhere.

She met people at conferences who are professors at medical schools who told her to call them up when she applied and they said they'd vouch for her. I have no idea how much weight that holds. She claimed that's the reason she added some of those top schools.

I also find it strange that medical school professors would say that to someone they just met (they said that to her after her PI introduced her to them and the PI is respected within her field).

I think you need to clearly explain to her how far out of reach a lot of those schools are. Even people with stats near the median of those schools get rejected in hordes.

 

[Grace184]

I've personally seen it happen- and work- at conferences. That's why it's always important you have your own business cards handy. I swear it, it sounds stupid, but networking counts. Now, that's not to say she might be overruled bc the professor isn't an adcom or doesn't hold weight there, but if it gets he a foot in the door for an interview chance, who knows?

 

[chemist16]

How about successful applicants to top 20 schools? Do you guys think the average is closer to 1 pub there?

 

[Conflagration]

How about successful applicants to top 20 schools? Do you guys think the average is closer to 1 pub there?

Closer to 1 than the general matriculant pool, but I don't think there'd be a publication to every matriculant unless there was an outlier who was very well-published in their field before trying for medical school. (Or you had a really small sample that you were looking at.)

 

[GrapesofRath]

For actual statistics in a first year class of MD/PhD students at Harvard it was said I believe 8/13 didn't have publications in undergrad. The source: my friend who's brother was in that class and the stat was told to him by the dean.

That alone provided me perspective about the frequency of publications for med school applicants(cue all the n=1 comments).

 

[MedWonk]

What do you guys think is the average number of research publications/posters/presentations of admitted students (MD and MD/PhD included) on SDN and of the overall applicant population? From reading some profiles on here, I think there is definitely a bias on this site - what do you think the true average really is?

I had absolutely 0 research experiences. Got in first try. So, there's that.

 

[Narmerguy]

I want to compare SDN to the overall applicant pool. So a sample from SDN is appropriate to gauge the number for the SDN population. I also asked for what people thought the average for the overall population was but it looks like nobody is addressing that except for Goro.

Asking people on SDN to speculate on the average # of publications is less useful, which is why people are trying to address this implicit flaw in your question. We do not know, how would we know? The people on SDN who post about their publications are likely thos

How about successful applicants to top 20 schools? Do you guys think the average is closer to 1 pub there?

No. I doubt even on SDN that the average is close to 1. "Close to 1" to me means more people have a publication than don't--ie >0.5. What people need to keep in mind is that the people most likely to mention how many publications they have are those that have them. When someone doesn't mention if they have publications, you can assume that they do and just didn't bring it up, or they don't have any to mention and thus choose not to say anything about it. This is not to say there aren't successful applicants at T20s (or any school for that matter) with possibly even multiple pubs. But the majority do not.

 

[miamiheatfan]

I also had 0 pubs. Almost all of my friends who got in (like 10, had 0 pubs). I agree with the majority that the average is close to 0. The reason that pubs may not make or break you is because Adcoms don't know if you actually earned it. You'll be surprised how many people barely did work and get published. That is the case for most of my friends who are published.

 

[familyaerospace]

I feel like it depends on the field and type of research.

I agree. It also helps to not be a shmuck but to make your intentions known and to be assertive with publications.

I knew of one kid who graduate with his PhD with like 30 pubs because every time he wrote a paper he had a journal in mind as he wrote it.

 

[bobmccorweg]

She had limited funds for application fees and her reasoning was that she didn't want to waste them applying to schools she didn't like. She is really hard working and really only has one bad year pulling her GPA down. And rushed to take the old MCAT before the new one came out.

I hope she gets in somewhere as well! It would be really sad to see her not get in anywhere.

She met people at conferences who are professors at medical schools who told her to call them up when she applied and they said they'd vouch for her. I have no idea how much weight that holds. She claimed that's the reason she added some of those top schools.

I also find it strange that medical school professors would say that to someone they just met (they said that to her after her PI introduced her to them and the PI is respected within her field).

It is clearly obvious you are referring to yourself so you can stop the whole facade.

Back on topic, I feel like it depends on the type of research, but yes my uninformed opinion is that its between 0 and 1. Mode being 0 as gyngyn said.

 

[northernlights15]

It is clearly obvious you are referring to yourself so you can stop the whole facade.

Back on topic, I feel like it depends on the type of research, but yes my uninformed opinion is that its between 0 and 1. Mode being 0 as gyngyn said.

Lol no?? I'm applying in the 2016-2017 cycle and have not taken the MCAT yet. If you care to check my post history you'll see that I post occasionally in the MCAT forum because I am taking the new test. What a strange accusation.

 

[Frazier]

Top 20 school. I had a handful of pubs while applying. It helped a lot.

Most of my classmates here had/have none...and this is a very research-focused institution.

So it just depends, but safe to say majority of premeds have zero.

 

[chemist16]

Thanks for your responses, everyone!

Asking people on SDN to speculate on the average # of publications is less useful, which is why people are trying to address this implicit flaw in your question. We do not know, how would we know? The people on SDN who post about their publications are likely thos

Your estimate should be based on what you do know - from friends, family, acquaintances who have applied. If I can get a large enough sample size, it might be accurate and that's all I'm aiming for. Interesting studies have actually been performed that show as you increase your sample size for an estimation, the estimation actually converges upon the true value given that the people estimating aren't just making up numbers from left field (i.e. they have some information on which to base their assumption - here, the friends and family). It's slightly different from asking people to speculate how many jelly beans I have in the jar on my desk.

Also, thanks for your input.

 

[deleted577188]

This.

You have to understand that even a 30 is a pretty good MCAT score, however when you come to SDN, everyone here makes that 30 look like a 15. Also most people here have 7.8 GPAs as well.

Many people here will also have 4.5 billion first author publications.

On a more serious note though, very few pre-meds have publications. A considerable amount of presentations but even then, most people do research for a like a year or two just to put it on a resume.

Its pretty rare from my experience to see an applicant with 3 years of research or more though. Thats getting up there in time commitment.

OMGGGG 7.8GPA, 4.5 BILLION PUBS, 30=15 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT'S FUNNY AS HELL LMAOOOOOO

 

[WedgeDawg]

OMGGGG 7.8GPA, 4.5 BILLION PUBS, 30=15 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT'S FUNNY AS HELL LMAOOOOOO

What on earth...

 

[Gandyy]

OMGGGG 7.8GPA, 4.5 BILLION PUBS, 30=15 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT'S FUNNY AS HELL LMAOOOOOO

errrrr

 

[longshot1821]

I'm a 25 y/o non-trad applying this cycle so my opinion is worth exactly nothing in terms of representative-ness, but I have 8 publications (one 1st author). That being said, I was heavily involved in research during the last 2 years of my undergrad and got a grand total of 0 pubs. All of my publications have been in the last year or so. It's quite difficult to get publications and frankly most undergrads do not have the skills, knowledge, or experience to publish meaningful work. I'm not saying this to be a jerk as I'll readily admit that while I was in undergrad I was part of that group.

So to answer you question, the vast vast majority of successful applicants likely have 0 publications. Those who do are most likely old geezers like myself.

 

[Conflagration]

Jesus Christ, 8 publications? ._.;

How much do presentations count? I have three, one juried, two intracollegiate, over two years. It's in math, so that's even weirder. ^^

 

[longshot1821]

Jesus Christ, 8 publications? ._.;

How much do presentations count? I have three, one juried, two intracollegiate, over two years. It's in math, so that's even weirder. ^^

I'm not sure if you were asking me or just asking but there is absolutely no reason to compare yourself to me, the only reason I responded was to illustrate the fact that even if you took an "average number of publications" statistic like OP mentioned it would still be highly unrepresentative because you have people like me--called NON-TRADITIONAL for a reason--who are skewing the results. Apples and oranges.

I honestly have no idea how much presentations "count" but any tangible result you can show from your research, like a presentation, is surely a plus compared to those who did research and have nothing (tangible) to show for it.

 

[gyngyn]

Your estimate should be based on what you do know - from friends, family, acquaintances who have applied. If I can get a large enough sample size, it might be accurate and that's all I'm aiming for. Interesting studies have actually been performed that show as you increase your sample size for an estimation, the estimation actually converges upon the true value given that the people estimating aren't just making up numbers from left field (i.e. they have some information on which to base their assumption - here, the friends and family). It's slightly different from asking people to speculate how many jelly beans I have in the jar on my desk.

Also, thanks for your input.

My sample size is about 100,000.

 

[NickNaylor]

Thanks for your responses, everyone!



Your estimate should be based on what you do know - from friends, family, acquaintances who have applied. If I can get a large enough sample size, it might be accurate and that's all I'm aiming for. Interesting studies have actually been performed that show as you increase your sample size for an estimation, the estimation actually converges upon the true value given that the people estimating aren't just making up numbers from left field (i.e. they have some information on which to base their assumption - here, the friends and family). It's slightly different from asking people to speculate how many jelly beans I have in the jar on my desk.

Also, thanks for your input.

Thank you for the very enlightening discussion on basic statistical theory.

Why are you so worried about this? Are you suddenly going to work orders of magnitude harder to get more publications based on what you "learn" here? It's a bit of a moot point and a complete waste of time and effort IMO.

 

[deleted577188]

What on earth...

No really I thought that was the funniest thing I've read all year on SDN lmaooo

 

[deleted393595]

What on earth...

errrrr

If I can get a large enough sample size, it might be accurate and that's all I'm aiming for. Interesting studies have actually been performed that show as you increase your sample size for an estimation, the estimation actually converges upon the true value given that the people estimating aren't just making up numbers from left field (i.e. they have some information on which to base their assumption - here, the friends and family).

We can haz citations?

 

[timsk]

For what it's worth, i was quite involved in research in undergrad, but with no publications and two poster presentations. I've been involved with research ever since and have 1 publication (4th author), an additional paper in press (2nd author), one that needs to be resubmitted (4th author), and was a speaker on a panel discussion during a national conference. That said, the more research i do the less passionate about it i feel. Or maybe it's just my current domain of research that leaves me wanting more...

 

[Goro]

This is a good thing. One should know the target audience you're aiming for. For example, do you go for anatomists, or anthropologists? they overlap, but they're not identical.



I knew of one kid who graduate with his PhD with like 30 pubs because every time he wrote a paper he had a journal in mind as he wrote it.