AVOID MILITARY MEDICINE if possible

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If the situation with dependent care is as bad as described by Mommax3 then why doesn't the patient's family notify their congressional representative? This generally raises the awareness across the board (in congress, the enitre chain of command, anyone that can be blamed, etc...) and makes it difficult to "explain away" these shortcomings as isolated incidents if they are as widespread as described. All it takes is one letter.

Believe me, they do. At one point during my A.D. time, I had the unenviable position of being the one who had to answer many of the "congressionals." Now, I can tell you that many of these were really pretty bogus complaints with no genuine basis or serious underlying issue. But there were a number that really did bring up problematic issues in care. We'd try to deal with them as best as possible, but when you got no real resources and a demoralized staff, it's hard to make sweeping inprovements.
X-RMD

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If the situation with dependent care is as bad as described by Mommax3 then why doesn't the patient's family notify their congressional representative? This generally raises the awareness across the board (in congress, the enitre chain of command, anyone that can be blamed, etc...) and makes it difficult to "explain away" these shortcomings as isolated incidents if they are as widespread as described. All it takes is one letter.


I began tracking all the missed labs, abn results, etc. I had hundreds before I separated. I presented a list of 10-20 of the worst ones, why they happened, how to stop/minimize it. I presented it to my chain of command. I presented it to the Inspector General on the base. I presented it to my congressman.

You take a guess if anything was done.:confused: :(
 
I began tracking all the missed labs, abn results, etc. I had hundreds before I separated. I presented a list of 10-20 of the worst ones, why they happened, how to stop/minimize it. I presented it to my chain of command. I presented it to the Inspector General on the base. I presented it to my congressman.

You take a guess if anything was done.:confused: :(

New postings to my site: My extensive letters to the SGH and Squadron Commander regarding terrible patient safety issues at Malcolm Grow "Medical Center", Andrews AFB, MD.

http://www.medicalcorpse.com/letter_to_SGH_10_Oct_01_redacted.doc
http://www.medicalcorpse.com/MemoRec_23_Oct_01.doc

Note: Oct 2001. Nov 2001: I arrange for transfer of a peds patient to WRAMC. 4 Dec 2001: I get career-ending LOR (lowered to LOA on appeal) for trying to save this child's life. Coincidence? I think not. Of course, the Wing IG did think it was a coincidence, because (drumroll) the Squadron Commander reprimanding me said so.

Not that I am still bitter, or anything...

--
R
http://www.medicalcorpse.com
 
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another letter, from another provider discussing PATIENT CARE issues (ie. the USAF doesn't care).

Patient Care Must Be Made
Military's Top Priority

I just finished reading [Dr. Harold Koenig's] article entitled "Physician Retention Within The Military," and I would like to share my comments and experiences with you concerning this issue. First, after reading your article, I felt as if you were speaking about me. I am a GMO in the USAF who entered into the military through an HPSP scholarship. I took this scholarship not only for the obvious financial benefits but also because of an underlying sense of proud patriotism. My father, uncles, and both grandfathers all served in the United States armed forces in one capacity or another. So, I entered into the USAF with expectations of serving my country proudly as my elders have done.
However, I have become quite discouraged during the past three years of active-duty service. After finishing a general surgery internship, I was sent to Kunsan, ROK, for a year as a GMO. Then I was sent to Los Angeles Air Force Base, where I have completed the second of my four-year active duty service commitment. I would like to relate to you my experiences with respect to Professional Development, Leadership, and Working Conditions.


Professional Development:
As stated above I am a GMO. My initial plans were to enter into a urology residency after medical school; however, the USAF did not need very many urologists my year, so I was sent to a general surgery internship. I had very little primary care training in medical school and virtually none in internship. Yet I was sent to Korea for a year to be one of four physicians in a remote primary care clinic.

I was lucky, because the other three docs were family practitioners who took me under their wings and taught me a lot. I call the type of medicine that GMOs practice "trial by fire" medicine. We are thrown into staff positions with very little training, and we are expected to function like fully residency trained physicians. So, all that we can do to survive and not hurt anyone is to learn quickly on-the-job.

I have indeed run into several situations where I was and am being held to a higher standard than that to which I have been trained. The most negligent is the fact that I am required to work a single-physician Saturday clinic once a month where half the patients are children. I have absolutely no training in pediatrics, and I related this fact to my supervisors. The other physicians in the clinic were very concerned about this issue, but because of a "manning shortage" I was told by my nurse commander that I had to do this anyway—even in spite of my concerns about my lack of training.


Leadership
I feel that there is a total void in the area of medical leadership. In medical school and internship, we were always around older physicians who could be called mentors. These physicians were full of experience and insight. They helped us develop into competent young physicians. They helped us choose our paths into residency and beyond.

There is very little mentorship within the Medical Corps. I am very worried about my future after the military: how competitive am I for a residency? Which residency should I pursue? etc. But there are no elder, wiser docs with whom to talk. My colleagues are straight out of residency. They are as young as I am. How are we to succeed professionally without the proper guidance?

Furthermore, I feel that you missed a very important aspect of leadership. We physicians are in a very tough situation with regards to choosing a career in military medicine. If we stay on active duty, then inevitably we will become administrators and not clinicians. Right now, this occurs by the time that one pins on Major. My SGH at Kunsan was a Major just two years out of his FP residency. He saw almost no patients during the whole year. How sad is that?

Most physicians that I know went into medicine because they liked to see patients—not because of a desire to push a pencil. But this becomes a much more sinister problem. Since most physicians have shied away from the "admin" roles, there are many essential leadership positions that have become available. These positions are now filled by nurses, which leads to a fundamental management problem. How can a career nurse understand the day-to-day frustrations not to mention the career goals of a physician when he/she has never been in that scenario?

In my opinion, the clinics should be managed by folks trained in hospital administration not in medicine or nursing. We doctors should be consultants to our managers. In my current clinic, the nurses are more concerned about the "numbers" rather than patient care. We doctors try to make suggestions that would best benefit our patients, but these are often very unpopular with our commanders because they may sacrifice a "good" metric.

My question: who are we serving if we are not working on behalf of our patients? This is absolutely ludicrous.


Working Conditions
I sometimes feel like I am working in a 3rd world country, even though my office is in the middle of a major metropolitan area. We have supply problems all of the time. At one point, we had no table paper, gyn speculums, or tongue depressors—in addition to the fact that we are required to see 25 patients per day with minimal support staff. Civilian doctors see many more patients a day than we do, but they have 4-5 exam rooms, plenty of ancillary staff, and they dictate their notes. How are we supposed to compete with this?

How are we supposed to give good care to our patients in a 15-minute time slot when we spend half the time finding out why the patient is here because there is no chart and the other half of the appointment is spent writing?

If the Unites States military is the least bit concerned about retention, then they certainly are not showing it very much. I would like to say that I am in complete agreement with your assessment. If more of today's leaders would listen to the messages that are being sent by today's military physicians, then I believe both physician and patient would be much happier. And this in turn would lead to more physicians making a career out of the military.

Physicians are a very committed bunch. We toil through medical school and residency in spite of our family and other personal commitments. When we come onto active duty, why can't we be treated with the respect that we deserve? We are our patients' advocates.

Until some kind of paradigm shift is made so that the patients as well as the doctors who treat them are regarded as priority-one, I believe that the military will certainly "hemorrhage" doctors.

AN AIR FORCE PHYSICIAN

http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=61&issueID=16
 
the previous memo was written about 4 years before I separated, and yet, it was EXACTLY what was going on at my base, during my time. Can anybody really read that letter and not be saddened and angry to realize that that is the NORM in todays military?
 
research done back in 1989 showing that that the military had major problems in providing adequate staffing way back then. LESSON to be learned = the military has not learned its lesson.

DOD Health Care. Extent to which Military Physicians Perform Administrative Tasks. Report to the Chairman, Committee on Government Operations, House of Representatives.
Authors: N/A
Descriptors: Administrative Problems; Employee Responsibility; Higher Education; Military Organizations; Military Personnel; Physicians
Journal/Source Name: N/A
Journal Citation: N/A
Peer-Reviewed: N/A
Publisher: N/A
Publication Date: 1989-02-00
Pages: 14
Pub Types: Reports - Evaluative
Abstract: A review was conducted of what the military services have done to determine the extent to which military physicians perform routine administrative and clerical tasks, and what the services have done to solve the problem. It was found that there is general agreement within the Department of Defense (DOD) and the military services that physicians are performing clerical and administrative tasks and that this detracts from clinical practice time and adversely affects physician productivity. Although the full extent of the administrative support problem and its effects are unknown, DOD health care professionals generally agree that it is a serious matter requiring priority attention. Each service has initiated or planned various actions to address the issue, but the impact of these actions may not be felt for a long time. The following topics are included: (1) background, objectives, scope and methodology of the review; (2) DOD and the services recognize the problem; (3) services' attempts to define the problem (Army, Navy, and Air Force); (4) DOD efforts to deal with the administrative support issue; and (5) conclusion. It is noted that providing adequate staff support could be a long-term project requiring multi-year budgetary commitments as well as monitoring to ensure effective implementation. (KM)

http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Ho...chType_0=eric_accno&objectId=0900000b80046e54
 
the previous memo was written about 4 years before I separated, and yet, it was EXACTLY what was going on at my base, during my time. Can anybody really read that letter and not be saddened and angry to realize that that is the NORM in todays military?

Er, no. The operative word is "read". Those who make our laws, pass our budgets, and approve our Generals do so, by and large, without reading what they are voting on. Fahrenheit 9/11, for all its flaws, has a hilarious section about the Patriot Act, wherein several Congress Critters admit they didn't read any of it before voting to pass it...scrounging around for money like remoras takes too much time, it seems, to leave any for reading.

If any of our military "decision makers" read this forum, they should take decisive action to clean up military medicine from the top down. Sadly, the pyramidal shape of IQs in the military, with brilliant but inexperienced folks at the bottom, and anencephalic but antiquated folks at the top, prevents any significant change in course of this Titanic undertaking.

I'm just wondering what the iceberg will be that takes down U.S. military medicine...perhaps fodder for another thread...

--
R
http://www.medicalcorpse.com
 
Er, no. The operative word is "read". Those who make our laws, pass our budgets, and approve our Generals do so, by and large, without reading what they are voting on. Fahrenheit 9/11, for all its flaws, has a hilarious section about the Patriot Act, wherein several Congress Critters admit they didn't read any of it before voting to pass it...scrounging around for money like remoras takes too much time, it seems, to leave any for reading.

If any of our military "decision makers" read this forum, they should take decisive action to clean up military medicine from the top down. Sadly, the pyramidal shape of IQs in the military, with brilliant but inexperienced folks at the bottom, and anencephalic but antiquated folks at the top, prevents any significant change in course of this Titanic undertaking.

I'm just wondering what the iceberg will be that takes down U.S. military medicine...perhaps fodder for another thread...

--
R
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

US Military Medicine doesn't need an iceburg, it needs a spotlight. A spotlight to expose to the general public what has been hidden in the shadows for years. I really have no doubt that if the public knew what was the status quo of military med ops there would be outrage. And yes, it took me less than "60 MINUTES" to come up with the answer. HINT:idea:
 
US Military Medicine doesn't need an iceburg, it needs a spotlight. A spotlight to expose to the general public what has been hidden in the shadows for years. I really have no doubt that if the public knew what was the status quo of military med ops there would be outrage. And yes, it took me less than "60 MINUTES" to come up with the answer. HINT:idea:


did it take exactly 20 min 20 secs?

I think our only chance is once the nielson audience tires of catching sexual predators with their pants down.
 
did it take exactly 20 min 20 secs?

I think our only chance is once the nielson audience tires of catching sexual predators with their pants down.


Perhaps some NIGHT(line) I will get around to contacting a news agency with the lowdown on military medicine. Perhaps I'll do that TODAY. What a wonderful day that will be to wake up some morning and say "Good Morning America", military Medicine is now headed in the right direction. But that is likely a pipe-dream; military medicine has no LAW and ORDER, which leaves quite a mess left behind of military medicine, mutilated physician careers etc. Somebody needs to call CSI.:laugh:
 
more evidence of the SG talking out both sides of his face; he says the best part of milmed is not having to think about money, then a paragraph later he states the biggest problem is funding.

A lot of people wonder why docs stay in the Air Force for the length of time we do. I think it's not only the ability to practice medicine where you focus on the patient and less on the bill—I'm not trying to make enough money to cover my practice, [but] I am trying to provide the best health care I can for my patient…

What have been some of the biggest challenges the Air Force has faced since you have been surgeon general?
I think the medical challenge has been a bureaucratic one, how to appropriately fund the health care benefit.


http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=1360&issueID=90
 
"...practice medicine where you focus on the patient and less on the bill"

I don't think that is a fair statement. Military medicine isn't focused on the bill but they are equally or more focused on the RVU or workload output measurement. Military physicians are under a tremendous amount of pressure to get those numbers up.
 
"...practice medicine where you focus on the patient and less on the bill"

I don't think that is a fair statement. Military medicine isn't focused on the bill but they are equally or more focused on the RVU or workload output measurement. Military physicians are under a tremendous amount of pressure to get those numbers up.

yes at travis we were encouraged to use "creative accounting" to keep those numbers up.
 
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I am sure everyone will be thrilled to know that I diverted a nurse anesthetist student from joining the military.... she was the typical poor, underinformed person the recruiters have their way with. I think I may even speak at their little school to give the military anti drug speech. I gave her the two hour diatribe of all the ridiculous things they do and stand for. Working on my "support our military physicians" custom made bumper sticker for my car.
 
I am sure everyone will be thrilled to know that I diverted a nurse anesthetist student from joining the military.... she was the typical poor, underinformed person the recruiters have their way with. I think I may even speak at their little school to give the military anti drug speech. I gave her the two hour diatribe of all the ridiculous things they do and stand for. Working on my "support our military physicians" custom made bumper sticker for my car.

I would not necessarily say thrilled. I am happy for the person who probably chose wisely in NOT going military medicine. But other than that it is SAD that something other than military medicine has to be the correct choice. In one way, fixing military medicine is like a war, and losing people/physicians are like casualties (whether they separate after service or those that realize its best not to join when they otherwise would have).

In the end, the casulaties seem much more worth it if the "war" is won. Till then, "casulaties" are not 100% great.
 
In one way, fixing military medicine is like a war, and losing people/physicians are like casualties (whether they separate after service or those that realize its best not to join when they otherwise would have).

On the other hand, the Triservice Military Medical Corpse is like a junkie addicted to the steady supply of fresh, young, inexperienced physicians (and CRNAs, PAs, nurse midwives, etc.) to maintain its habit of ill-serving our troops and their families. Extending the analogy...we have tried encouraging the addict to quit. We have tried "interventions" (memos for record, IG complaints, e-mails, my website), to no avail. In fact, the irrational military medical hierarchy user lashed out at many of us in denial and thalamic rage for pointing out that he/she had a problem. After trying for years to work within the system to improve medical care, many of us docs were cast aside as useless, empty crack vials, because fresh, new, docile faces kept on coming on board. These new infusions of dopaminergic stimulants could be counted on to SHUT UP about any problems until they made major or so, at which point they could, in turn, be cast aside in the gutter, due the military's utter contempt toward anyone who speaks out for improvements.

So, in the end, the only solution I see to reform military medicine involves war on several fronts:
1) Getting the word out about the Truth of the disastrous state of quality care in military medicine (the exact opposite of the propagandistic bulls*** excreted by SGs and their achordate underlings)
2) Encouraging the Congress (ha) and DoD to do something...anything...to improve working conditions, treatment, and pay of seasoned military docs to improve retention of experienced attendings-- the ONE key to quality care.
3) Prevention of accession of medical students, CRNA students, PA students, and all other paraprofessionals, in order to force the military to go "Cold Turkey". Only when the chickens of their tragic mismanglement policies come home to roost, in "metrics" terms even anencephalic Generals and Admirals can understand (no bodies to deploy, no RVUs to tout = no money due to no bodies and RVUs), will there be any hope that DoD will undo its current craniorectal anastomosis to start improving the lives of military physicians, which will improve retention, which will improve care, which will Q.E.D. improve patient outcome among our troops, retirees, and their families...

...which is the ONE aim all of us can agree on, from the recruiters to the "malcontents" like me.

Hoka hey!
 
more lies and broken promises. A few quotes from the designer of the current USAF Primary Care Platform. Any FP in the USAF will tell you how far away from the truth Gen CARLTON is on his description of a Primary Care clinic. And for you specialist, pay attention to the last paragraph.

Another way we are in the vanguard of population health improvement is through our primary care optimization (PCO) initiative, through which we've been working diligently to reengineer our primary care services. This initiative is critical, since more than 80 per cent of all the care we deliver in the AFMS is through our primary care clinics.
Through PCO, we've gained efficiencies in health care delivery by restructuring our clinics, reassigning support staff to our PCMs, and providing additional training to improve the skills of our enlisted and nursing personnel.We are seeing real success, especially within the PCO teams and between the teams and their patients. The relationships are ones of trust and understanding that are reminiscent of the one-on-one care that we had from our hometown doctors and their office staff. Our nurses, medical technicians, and health-service managers are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc." It's exciting for everyone involved.

Our optimization efforts have not gone unnoticed. A tri-service team of functional experts, led by the Department of Defense comptroller's office, recently recognized the AFMS for the strides we made in creating a cultural change thriving on efficient, quality health care. In fact, many of our programs have been adopted for implementation across the Military Health System.


As we continue to improve PCO, our next step will be to pursue specialty care optimization. We are reviewing a limited number of AFMS product lines associated with surgical specialties in larger, bedded facilities: obstetrics/gynecology, orthopedics, ophthalmology, otolaryngology, general surgery, and anesthesia.

http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=129&issueID=20

http://www.usmedicine.com/column.cfm?columnID=73&issueID=34
 
more lies and broken promises. A few quotes from the designer of the current USAF Primary Care Platform. Any FP in the USAF will tell you how far away from the truth Gen CARLTON is on his description of a Primary Care clinic. And for you specialist, pay attention to the last paragraph.

Another way we are in the vanguard of population health improvement is through our primary care optimization (PCO) initiative, through which we’ve been working diligently to reengineer our primary care services. This initiative is critical, since more than 80 per cent of all the care we deliver in the AFMS is through our primary care clinics.
Through PCO, we've gained efficiencies in health care delivery by restructuring our clinics, reassigning support staff to our PCMs, and providing additional training to improve the skills of our enlisted and nursing personnel.We are seeing real success, especially within the PCO teams and between the teams and their patients. The relationships are ones of trust and understanding that are reminiscent of the one-on-one care that we had from our hometown doctors and their office staff. Our nurses, medical technicians, and health-service managers are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc." It's exciting for everyone involved.

Our optimization efforts have not gone unnoticed. A tri-service team of functional experts, led by the Department of Defense comptroller's office, recently recognized the AFMS for the strides we made in creating a cultural change thriving on efficient, quality health care. In fact, many of our programs have been adopted for implementation across the Military Health System.


As we continue to improve PCO, our next step will be to pursue specialty care optimization. We are reviewing a limited number of AFMS product lines associated with surgical specialties in larger, bedded facilities: obstetrics/gynecology, orthopedics, ophthalmology, otolaryngology, general surgery, and anesthesia.

http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=129&issueID=20

http://www.usmedicine.com/column.cfm?columnID=73&issueID=34

Good Lord. A good rule of thumb is that the more jargon, the higher the level of BS. The best Commanding Officers I ever had didn't use jargon at all.

I hate all of that "optimization....cultural change...reengineer" duckspeak.
We had the same problem at Duke Family Medicine just before the collapse. They seemed to go into a bureacratic panic and decided to throw big words at the probelms instead of taking responsibility and admitting that he program had hit the iceberg and was going down fast.

"Tri-service team of functional experts." Probably the most idiotic description for a "paper-pusher" I have ever heard.
 
Good Lord. A good rule of thumb is that the more jargon, the higher the level of BS. The best Commanding Officers I ever had didn't use jargon at all.

.


#1) another good rule of thumb: if the Commander is talking out both sides of his face, then there is very likely crap coming out the bottom as well.

#2) the second rule of thumb: don't place yourself downstream from a Commander like that mentioned above.

#1 + #2 = this is NOT the time to take a swim in the HPSP (health professions STREAM of Physicians).
 
Our nurses, medical technicians, and health-service managers are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc." It's exciting for everyone involved.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
News Flash, December 2008

Surgeon General of the Air Force Sally Wanabosdox-Arond, R.N. Announces New PCM Optimization Strategery

"Our medical technicians, health-service managers, and janitors are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc". It's exciting for everyone involved."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
News Flash, October 2010

Health Care Provider General of the Tri-Service Health Care Corps, Ms. Gota Sitonmiasando-Emaille, GS 14, Announces new Retiree Medical Outlay Minimization Strategery:

"Our telephone operators, janitors, and groundskeepers are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc". It's exciting for everyone involved."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
News Flash, October 2013

Imperial Pro-Consul for Health Care of Ex-Republic Military Retirees and their Families, Centurion Emily Notgivasit, Explains Exciting
New, State-Of-The-Art, Online Health Care Provision Optimization Reorganization Synergy Strategery:

"Our website for self-diagnosis and treatment of all diseases, http2://www.ripoutmyownappendix.imp.gov is now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see their computer and/or high-speed, internet-enabled mobile device as their "Doc". It's exciting for everyone involved. As usual, our active duty Imperial troops will continue to get the very best of 'old-fashioned', personal medical care from the highest trained janitors we can find."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Turn to face the change...
 
"Our nurses, medical technicians, and health-service managers are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc." It's exciting for everyone involved."

I guess its only fair that if they (the patients) see the tech, and managers as the doc, then they must see the doc as no more than a tech, manager etc.

Wow, that explains alot.......that is exactly what the SG thinks too. Now I get it !:idea: Now I understand why I had the authority of a janitor, tech, manager in trying to care for my patients.....it's because that is what the SG thinks we are. DUH !:idea: :D
 
"Our nurses, medical technicians, and health-service managers are now so much a part of the team and the delivery of health care that many patients see them as their "Doc." It's exciting for everyone involved."

It's so unfortunate that military medicine is so bad. I spent 6 years as a military physician and I was appaled at the fact that RN's are often placed in direct charge of physicians. The "Head" of a medicine department at one military hospital was an RN. I would say about 40 percent of the doctors in the Military are quality acts, usually they keep these doctors at the large flagship institutions, Walter Reed, BAMC, Wilfred Hall, NMCSD. Quality physicians at other hospitals just cannot take the pain of being lead by incompetant administrators, nurses, and yes other doctors who RUN AWAY from work.

The adminstrator to provider ratio usually being 3 or 4 to 1 and the fact that 30 or 40 physicians report to ALL of these administrative *****s not just one at the same time.

Most of us cannot wait to leave when we see this at a smaller hospital / branch clinic in the US or overseas.
 
It's so unfortunate that military medicine is so bad. I spent 6 years as a military physician and I was appaled at the fact that RN's are often placed in direct charge of physicians. The "Head" of a medicine department at one military hospital was an RN. I would say about 40 percent of the doctors in the Military are quality acts, usually they keep these doctors at the large flagship institutions, Walter Reed, BAMC, Wilfred Hall, NMCSD. Quality physicians at other hospitals just cannot take the pain of being lead by incompetant administrators, nurses, and yes other doctors who RUN AWAY from work.

The adminstrator to provider ratio usually being 3 or 4 to 1 and the fact that 30 or 40 physicians report to ALL of these administrative *****s not just one at the same time.

Most of us cannot wait to leave when we see this at a smaller hospital / branch clinic in the US or overseas.


It's unfortunate indeed. Over the past 2 years that I have been on this site, I have continued to hear from other active duty docs that have about the same story to tell, and it's a sad story; military medicine is a shame.

This was the same thing I heard from 100% of FP docs when I was on active duty, and I have kept in touch with some of the active duty docs and things have continued to get worse.

For 2 years now I have been asking to hear from even one FP doc in the USAF that has a generally good opinion of FP military medicine, and I am still waiting.

Forget the hype that you see in the advertisements, and that you hear from the recruiters. There are huge problems that dwarf anything you might see in the civilian world.:(

If I had reason to hope that things would be better, I'd jump on the pro-mil bandwagon in a heartbeat. I do believe we live in the best country in the world and have the best soldiers in the world. They deserve the best healthcare we can give them. If what we have as a military healthcare system were even decent, I'd be there for life.

It isn't even close, and I'm not.
 
If I had reason to hope that things would be better, I'd jump on the pro-mil bandwagon in a heartbeat. I do believe we live in the best country in the world and have the best soldiers in the world. They deserve the best healthcare we can give them. If what we have as a military healthcare system were even decent, I'd be there for life.

As someone earlier in this string mentioned (probably a recruiter) the benefits are second to none. but the bull$#% is simply stifling. There are times I miss the comraderie that came with the service, especially from marines.... maybe not so brilliant but loyal and appreciative of the care given by our corpsman and doctors. But at the hospital in the administration the level of political infighting between doctors, nurses and medical service people was UNBELIEVABLE. And don't even get me started on how completely screwed up relations are between doctors between various branches when we interact with each other (USA,USAF,USN)

After getting out I have seen similar things at some hospitals but I can always choose to leave. And even still NOTHING compares to the maligancy of the military medical enviornment, excepting the Big Three Hospitals where they actually were relatively well run (I mean they had to be).

PS I always thought you Chair Force guys were brats! :)
 
a few more quotes from Gen Carlton, previous USAF SG that developed and implemented the plan for failure that has planted USAF Primary Care in the gutter.

"Some doctors still want to write down their own patient histories. It's more efficient to have another member of the team do it."

ok, somebody out there let the SG know that there is not a FP in America that does not take/document the history, at least in part by him/herself. And somebody also let him know that with the severe undermanning, the "team" is usually the doc by him/herself.

"The provider on the outside has a product --- and its called money."


Would somebody please let the SG know that the product of a family doc is not money, it IS good medical care and a strong doctor patient relationship. That is whether you are a civilian or a military doc.

"The average number of enrollees in TRICARE per provider at USAF facilities last year was only 700. Carlton wants to match the private sector average of 1500 enrollees per provider."

Would somebody please let the SG know that he can stop counting now. At last count I was covering for about 3000 TRICARE enrollees. And after that, would somebody please inform him the we are NOT the private sector.


Thank You.

The below was taken from an interview between the SG and MILITARY UPDATE journalist Tom Philpott; 8/10/2000.

is there any wonder that UASAF Primary Care is in the sad state of affairs it finds itself in.:rolleyes: :idea: :thumbdown:
 
You know it's the same way in all of the services, the same rhetoric was being passed down in Admiral Burkhart's model of how many patient encounters military medical providers needed to see to "match" what thier civilian couterparts were doing. Nevermind that the support structure is nonexistant. Also the thought that I heard from my CO that "you can just have the case manager consult other doctors for you" uhh... NO ... doctors consult other doctors.

There is a real threat from Rumsfeld et al of shutting down all that is duplicate and inefficiant in the Military (which is about half of it :) ) but Military medicine is an extraordinary exercise in inefficiancy and ineptness. The problem is that the people who have risen through this system of ineptitude have NO IDEA how to fix it.

Funnier still rather than learning from the mistakes that managed care made in it's infancy they are simply repeating them. As much as I think Rumsfeld is nuts I must admit his criticism of military medicine is right on. Civilians could and are doing a better job of it. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you view it) in thier inept attempts to fix the problem the medical brass is proving him right.
 
Also the thought that I heard from my CO that "you can just have the case manager consult other doctors for you" uhh... NO ... doctors consult other doctors.

Better wash your brain out with soap, Mr., if you're gonna work in this person's military. All providers are created equal. Physicians, nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, CRNAs, PAs, corpsmen, technicians, case managers, janitors: all are providers, and all are co-equal (except that nurses have a greater probability of promotion to command billets: http://www.medicalcorpse.com/Truthhurts4.ppt).

There is a real threat from Rumsfeld et al of shutting down all that is duplicate and inefficiant in the Military (which is about half of it :) ) but Military medicine is an extraordinary exercise in inefficiancy and ineptness. The problem is that the people who have risen through this system of ineptitude have NO IDEA how to fix it.

Ah, yes, Catch 23: If you were smart enough to know how to facilitate quality medical care, you would have left the military the moment your commitment was done. Conversely: If you stay in, you are either too lazy, incompetent, or both to hold down a civilian job. Exception: Nurses with stunning headlights who want to boss docs around while looking good and doing nothing of value:
http://www.medicalcorpse.com/2006USAFMCaptitude.html
http://www.medicalcorpse.com/
Funnier still rather than learning from the mistakes that managed care made in it's infancy they are simply repeating them. As much as I think Rumsfeld is nuts I must admit his criticism of military medicine is right on. Civilians could and are doing a better job of it. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you view it) in thier inept attempts to fix the problem the medical brass is proving him right.

The problem is that Rumsfeld and the rest of the Neocon junta are addicted to outsourcing. What company is going to volunteer to do the TRICARE job, what with the reams of quadruplicate government forms? That's right: the bottom of the barrel low bidder, which will do everything in its power to prevent provision of quality medical care. After all: as soon as a retiree dies, Cha Ching! More money for the government to spend on no-bid Halliburton contracts.

It's precisely like a bunch of monkeys trying to put a Swiss clock back together, after a bunch of dead (retired) monkeys smashed it with large rocks a decade ago. Not gonna happen without outside intervention by primates with IQs greater than room temperature.

--
R
 
"Some doctors still want to write down their own patient histories. It's more efficient to have another member of the team do it."


"Some surgeons still want to be the one actually performing the surgery. It's much more efficient to have another member of the surgical team, a good scrub nurse perhaps, holding the scalpal and doing the cutting."


Gen Carlton Jr, USAF SG; quote from his interview with the magazine MILITARY PROVIDER talking about the implimentation of SCO (Surgical Care Optimization) Issue 1, August 1st, 2010.
 
The problem is that Rumsfeld and the rest of the Neocon junta are addicted to outsourcing. What company is going to volunteer to do the TRICARE job, what with the reams of quadruplicate government forms? That's right: the bottom of the barrel low bidder, which will do everything in its power to prevent provision of quality medical care. After all: as soon as a retiree dies, Cha Ching! More money for the government to spend on no-bid Halliburton contracts.

True, but I wish I could say that the current management were even doing a REMOTELY competant job. I personally have felt the "LeaderShip" of crazy power hungry nurses gone awry, and I've been beaten down painfully for arguing against it. The ridiculous perversion of "data" to justify money flowing in the WRONG direction is beyond belief. Even the most perverse government contract agency does not act as screwed up as military medicine is on the inside. More than once I have been told you are "a doctor second". NO I don't think so.... Let it burn, let it fall. Congressmen WILL respond to thousands of angry retirees when the system crumbles, especially when they are one of them.

#1 + #2 = this is NOT the time to take a swim in the HPSP (health professions STREAM of Physicians).

They aren't getting HPSP applicants maybe 80 for 200 some spots some two years in a row. If this continues they may go back to vietnam era mechanisms for "encouraging" physicians from medical schools

Edit: Hey!! I was an HPSP physician, personally I think the USUHS system is extraordinarily inefficient and is just another example of how screwed up the system is
 
True, but I wish I could say that the current management were even doing a REMOTELY competant job. I personally have felt the "LeaderShip" of crazy power hungry nurses gone awry, and I've been beaten down painfully for arguing against it. The ridiculous perversion of "data" to justify money flowing in the WRONG direction is beyond belief. Even the most perverse government contract agency does not act as screwed up as military medicine is on the inside. More than once I have been told you are "a doctor second". NO I don't think so.... Let it burn, let it fall. Congressmen WILL respond to thousands of angry retirees when the system crumbles, especially when they are one of them.

The "perversion of data" is just another complete failure of leadership and just another bit of evidence that USAF Core Values do NOT exist in USAF medicine leadership (in general).:thumbdown:

FYI; the USAF currently has some 200,000 patients assigned to its MTFs that have no doctor. That means todays FP are covering for an extra quarter-million patients (thats how the lie that docs have only 1500 patients get perpetuated...........I was taking care of anywhere from 2000-6000 patients during my tour).:p

Read it for yourself at the just released FALL issue uf the Uniformed Family Physician, USAF Consultant section. There is also a fairly "no-spin" article on the Open Access Failure in the USAF (you can't promise Open Access to patients when you have no docs; you can't keep that promise....but as we all know (those who have been there) the USAF medical leadership is great at breaking promises.:smuggrin:

http://www.usafp.org/
 
You've saved another person. I was seriously going to resign my commission and pick up a HPSP scholarship. But now I know I'm going to just resign my commission. Apply for financial aid, look for other scholarships and go into what I deem as "good" debt. They've already got me for 4 years and I think it's time to take a chance...

Besides I'm not getting any younger...

I really appreciate this forum because it just confirms what every older and wiser officer who's trying to stick it out until they retire have told me. I've heard it every which way but the moral of the story was to get while the gettings good. And I'm no doc but my profession is for the birds especially if you knew what I went to school for and what I'm doing now.

Sad because I like the military but it's not enough to make me want to stay...
 
You've saved another person. I was seriously going to resign my commission and pick up a HPSP scholarship. But now I know I'm going to just resign my commission...Sad because I like the military but it's not enough to make me want to stay...

Yes, sad indeed, that military medicine is no longer the appropriate venue for a patriotic American military officer to make a positive difference in patients' lives...but rather a meat grinder designed on purpose to destroy the lives of those who care, and reward those who don't give a flying Surgeon General.

--
R
 
Does anyone have any good ideas for finding funding for med school that doesn't involve the military? Anyone familar with the PH scholarship?
 
You've saved another person. I was seriously going to resign my commission and pick up a HPSP scholarship. But now I know I'm going to just resign my commission. Apply for financial aid, look for other scholarships and go into what I deem as "good" debt. They've already got me for 4 years and I think it's time to take a chance...

Besides I'm not getting any younger...

I really appreciate this forum because it just confirms what every older and wiser officer who's trying to stick it out until they retire have told me. I've heard it every which way but the moral of the story was to get while the gettings good. And I'm no doc but my profession is for the birds especially if you knew what I went to school for and what I'm doing now.

Sad because I like the military but it's not enough to make me want to stay...


Sad is the correct term. I know there are PLENTY of people like myself and you that would like nothing more than to serve our troops and our country and it is TRULY SAD that the currrent leadership had created and maintained a healthcare clinic environment that is so anti-physician, anti-quality, anti-USAF core values, that no physicians in their right mind, committed to quality and care of patients and staff would consider staying.:thumbdown:
 
Sad is the correct term. I know there are PLENTY of people like myself and you that would like nothing more than to serve our troops and our country and it is TRULY SAD that the currrent leadership had created and maintained a healthcare clinic environment that is so anti-physician, anti-quality, anti-USAF core values, that no physicians in their right mind, committed to quality and care of patients and staff would consider staying.:thumbdown:

This is the best, most cogent explanation of the grief and anger we ex-military M.D.s here feel.

I like it so much, well...just look: http://www.medicalcorpse.com

Hope you don't mind, good buddy.

--
Rob
 
This is the best, most cogent explanation of the grief and anger we ex-military M.D.s here feel.

I like it so much, well...just look: http://www.medicalcorpse.com

Hope you don't mind, good buddy.

--
Rob

definitely don't mind.

I realize you and I and all the other physicians that have shared our military experiences here on the site are often labels as "anti-military."

That is truly so far from the truth. I believe that you and I would do just about anything to improve the current situation in military medicine. We would probably be willing to sacrifice even more than most docs that remain in military medicine. But we have also realized, that unfortunately, no amount of hard work, good suggestions, promising plans, and "just hang in there guys" encouragement will fix what the Surgeon General insists on keeping broken. The only reason I can think of that he (the SG) persists in his failed current planning is there must be some imagined $$$ savings and perhaps some actual career benefit.

I recently spoke with the Pentagon rep for FP/USAF. Sounded like a great guy; aware of the current situation and actively making suggestions that will help. The problem? He's not the SG. He's not congress. And he's leaving his job in less than 6 months. I have personally spoken with all of the last three pentagon reps and they have represented well, but been unable to make major changes for the better.:(


lastly, I just received a response from my congressman regarding my concerns about patient safety etc. in our USAF clinics. Despite detailed examples of problems, patient adverse outcomes etc..........the letter simply stated that he agrees that there are funding problems. Wow......

SAD:( :thumbdown:
 
definitely don't mind.

I realize you and I and all the other physicians that have shared our military experiences here on the site are often labels as "anti-military."

That is truly so far from the truth. I believe that you and I would do just about anything to improve the current situation in military medicine. We would probably be willing to sacrifice even more than most docs that remain in military medicine. But we have also realized, that unfortunately, no amount of hard work, good suggestions, promising plans, and "just hang in there guys" encouragement will fix what the Surgeon General insists on keeping broken. The only reason I can think of that he (the SG) persists in his failed current planning is there must be some imagined $$$ savings and perhaps some actual career benefit.

I recently spoke with the Pentagon rep for FP/USAF. Sounded like a great guy; aware of the current situation and actively making suggestions that will help. The problem? He's not the SG. He's not congress. And he's leaving his job in less than 6 months. I have personally spoken with all of the last three pentagon reps and they have represented well, but been unable to make major changes for the better.:(


lastly, I just received a response from my congressman regarding my concerns about patient safety etc. in our USAF clinics. Despite detailed examples of problems, patient adverse outcomes etc..........the letter simply stated that he agrees that there are funding problems. Wow......

SAD:( :thumbdown:


Truly sad that it comes to the allmighty dollar. But I think there is so much waste, that they could do alot of good with what they have if they spend it properly.

For instance, some non-physician *****, decided to buy all new light sources for the laparoscopic sets, but neglected to include the light cords since they did not meet the budget constrains. SO we had 4-5 new light sources, but with the same crap light cords. If you hooked one directly to the sun, it would do no good, but someone did not think of that. Instead, the multiple levels of administrators got new desks. The hospital commander had the library removed so a new wing for the command staff could be opened, and the library moved to the basement. Of course, the old desk furniture would not do, so she got new ones. We had modular desks from the 1950's, and chairs with missing wheels and springs, but I was ok with that, if they had taken the money and used it on two light cords.

The mentallity is SO INGRAINLY SCREWED, that I have real doubts that any meaningful change will occur in the next decade. Totally FUBAR'd
 
The mentallity is SO INGRAINLY SCREWED, that I have real doubts that any meaningful change will occur in the next decade. Totally FUBAR'd


without a RE-DISIGN of how the military "does medicine" the continued path down the toilet drain will continue. Admin appears not to mind, but thats because they are the ones sittin' on the potty. The patients and staff sit beneath them, you know where.
 
Does anyone have any good ideas for finding funding for med school that doesn't involve the military? Anyone familar with the PH scholarship?

not intimately familiar, but i've heard a few things from recipients and researchers. looks like the best thing to do is get loans, and then do a nhsc forgiveness program. supposedly the options are better for choosing the "rural" area where you do your payback. if you take the money during school, the options decrease very quickly.
 
After 23 years on active duty (10 enlisted Navy Corpsman, 13 commission) and retirement as an 0-4 CRNA I understand why retirement is good. As we get older, we have a hard time falling in line and feel that our experience and expertise should be respected and not quashed. Discouraging youth from service may be disadvantageous. Military active duty and dependents deserve good care. The care of a young, idealistic team of military MDs (including one of my anesthesiology faculty attendings) saved my daughter's life. I'm now in a lucrative private practice and am a primary attending consultant anesthetist for the regional level-1 trauma center, and civilian healthcare "ain't no utopia". In my private practice we can't get peds to show up for high-risk deliveries, our blood bank is slow, and the nurses are understaffed and overworked. The trauma center is filled with the most dedicated group of professionals I have had the privilege of working with, and the reward is bad press for BS. I think the only thing that may save military medicine is retention and wisdom of the "gray Hairs" and the infusion of new, idealistic MDs. When I realized I could not support the mission of non- military losers dictating objectives of my military, I knew it was time to go. Obviously most of you felt the same way + voted with your feet. You incredibly talented professionals would likely have stayed had someone just listened - what an amazing and cost-effective concept. Best of luck to all of you.
 
Discouraging youth from service may be disadvantageous.

I think that is putting it kindly. Sometimes I think military recruiters would do anything to convince someone to enlist. Some of the posters are doing the exact same thing except they are trying to discourage people from joining. Celebrating after discouraging someong from service is poor form! There has to be a better balance between mentoring young doctors and getting back at the military medical system.
 
I think that is putting it kindly. Sometimes I think military recruiters would do anything to convince someone to enlist. Some of the posters are doing the exact same thing except they are trying to discourage people from joining. Celebrating after discouraging someong from service is poor form! .

Sad is the correct term. I know there are PLENTY of people like myself and you that would like nothing more than to serve our troops and our country and it is TRULY SAD that the currrent leadership had created and maintained a healthcare clinic environment that is so anti-physician, anti-quality, anti-USAF core values, that no physicians in their right mind, committed to quality and care of patients and staff would consider staying.

IgD;

the above quote is from just a few entries above yours in this same thread. PLease do not misrepresent what myself and others feel about our country and about medicine. I do not consider the state of military medicine anything to "celebrate" about, and I do not consider someone choosing civilian medicine something to celebrate about.

The troops will get their care whether or not you and I are in the military. What I do believe MUST happen if military medicine is to change (for the better) is for them to loose the HPSP pipeline of unsuspecting docs OR for the mass public to know the truth. Your guess is as good as mine which one happens first. There is very good evidence that senior leadership has known for years about the serious problems that have been discussed on this site. Senior leadership seems to have different priorities, obviously.:thumbdown:
 
Discouraging youth from service may be disadvantageous.

Maybe...but joining todays current military medical healthcare is definitely disadvantageous.

I'm now in a lucrative private practice and am a primary attending consultant anesthetist for the regional level-1 trauma center, and civilian healthcare "ain't no utopia".

I am in civilian medicine now as well....it is not a utopia, HOWEVER, there is NO COMPARISON to what I saw in military medicine. You can look at this whole thread about the details of what I saw in our USAF clinic. That stuff just does NOT HAPPEN in the civilian world.

I think the only thing that may save military medicine is retention and wisdom of the "gray Hairs" and the infusion of new, idealistic MDs. When I realized I could not support the mission of non- military losers dictating objectives of my military, I knew it was time to go. Obviously most of you felt the same way + voted with your feet. You incredibly talented professionals would likely have stayed had someone just listened - what an amazing and cost-effective concept. Best of luck to all of you.[/
QUOTE]


I appreciate your entry, but disagree 100% on what it will take to "save military medicine." There are wise grey hairs in the USAF; I spoke to all the FP Pentagon reps, they all knew what was going on and had the ear of the highest level of leadership. And they had the same frustration of seeing the SG consistently go with Metrics, Promotion, Status Quo over USAF Core Values, giving good safe care to patients and support to staff.
 
I think the only thing that may save military medicine is retention and wisdom of the "gray Hairs" and the infusion of new, idealistic MDs.



believe me; idealistic MDs are the ones who will find todays "military medicine" UNACCEPTABLE.

idealism has no place in a USAF clinic nowadays. Admin will do whatever it takes to rip out any bit of idealism. Now if the SG comes up with a metric for idealism, maybe that will change.....not.:idea: :oops:
 
believe me; idealistic MDs are the ones who will find todays "military medicine" UNACCEPTABLE.

idealism has no place in a USAF clinic nowadays. Admin will do whatever it takes to rip out any bit of idealism. Now if the SG comes up with a metric for idealism, maybe that will change.....not.:idea: :oops:

It's a complex set of feelings you know, on one hand you still have the love of your country and concern for our active duty that are continually called on these days to go serve. ALL of us comissioned because we love our country regardless of what the political administration does or whether we agree with it. Don't get me wrong we needed money to pay for school too, but there are FAR easier ways to get money.

On the other you have a severe resentment and disdain for a system that is a part of the armed services that allowed you to make do with the most unbeleivable lack of resources. The stories about light sources purchased without appropriate parts is one that EVERY MILITARY physician had heard. I personally was told to go without an accurate blood pressure machine, "why do we need that?" (in an internal medicine clinic)

The stories of Nurse admininistrators is unfortunately our own doing, but through a combination of lack of understanding, resentment of physicians, and plain administrative stupidity the scores of RN's that have been placed in charge of departments, directorates and whole hospitals have dragged down military medicine.
 
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