Away Rotation at UCSF or Stanford?

[Sage]

I?m applying to Pathology next year, and I think I will be a fairly competitive applicant. For several reasons (mostly spouse?s job) I am very interested in UCSF and Stanford. Has anyone (particularly a non-Cali resident) done away rotations with these programs? Does anyone know if it significantly improves your chance of matching?

Thanks for any input offered, and Happy Holidays!

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[caffeinegirl]

Hey there

I'm in the same situation as yourself: I'm out of state, looking at Stanford/UCSF due to spouse's job. I heard through the residency director at my med school that doing an away rotation at these competitive programs is a good thing, because then they'll know you when interviews and decisions are made. He recommended doing a rotation after surg path at your school, and doing it in a specialty of path at Stanford/UCSF. Doing two surg path rotations wouldn't be helpful, and having surg path under your belt before going there would be nice way to impress

caffeinegirl

 

[pathstudent]

Hey if you are just in your third year, I would do a PSF between your junior and senior year at UCSF in order to really have a good chance. It is a relatively small program and they would be taking at most 6 residents in a year (at most) and there are 2-4 PSFs from the past that you will be going up against, along with any UCSF students who were interested in path and wanted to stay in the bay, plus any good MD/PhDs who really want to go there badly (as they are likely to get half the spots). In other words there are only about 1-2 spots there for everyone else in the country including those who rotate there.

Being a PSF, doing well, doing some research while you are there and expressing interest in going to UCSF would give you a very good chance of going there.

I don't know much about Stanford except that a lot of residents have left in the middle of the program and gone elsewhere recently due to unhappiness.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Your news about the Stanford program is quite disconcerting! Anybody got the details? I'd like to know what made these people leave!


caffeinegirl

 

[Sage]

Thanks for the replies, caffeinegirl & pathstudent!

I?m a MD/PhD, so ready to move on to residency rather than PSF, and we?ve planned things so that my spouse and I can move cities at the same time. But it sounds like I seriously need to try to plan an away rotation. Does anyone know much info about the housing options at UCSF? It seems that most people stay in nearby guesthouses, but I?d love to hear a few specific suggestions / experiences.

I second caffeinegirl?s concern over the idea that a number of Stanford Path residents recently jumped ship? There may be a very reasonable set of circumstances, or it may be a red flag.

 

[LoneCoyote]

Originally posted by Sage
Thanks for the replies, caffeinegirl & pathstudent!

I?m a MD/PhD, so ready to move on to residency rather than PSF, and we?ve planned things so that my spouse and I can move cities at the same time. But it sounds like I seriously need to try to plan an away rotation. Does anyone know much info about the housing options at UCSF? It seems that most people stay in nearby guesthouses, but I?d love to hear a few specific suggestions / experiences.

Hey,

I'm just applying to med school right now, but considering path so I was on this board browsing. I don't know any details about UCSF but I'm from SF and you can check out Craigslist to get an idea about housing costs. They have sublet section where you might find something short term. I've done it before and lived in cool situations. Hope that helps.

www.craigslist.org

 

[governaitor]

I?m a MD/PhD, so ready to move on to residency rather than PSF, and we?ve planned things so that my spouse and I can move cities at the same time. But it sounds like I seriously need to try to plan an away rotation. Does anyone know much info about the housing options at UCSF? It seems that most people stay in nearby guesthouses, but I?d love to hear a few specific suggestions / experiences.

With an away rotation and an MD/PhD, you should be money as long as you are willing to demonstrate a strong commitment into going into basic research. Find a guy there that has a lab that you want to work in and get in touch with him. If you did that then you might not even need to do an away rotation. Declare yourself as AP or CP only. They will take you for sure.

I have met a couple of residents at other programs who bailed on Stanford. One said half the residents she started with were gone, but this was three years ago when she started and things change. When I recently interviewed in LA, a PD mentioned they had picked a couple of 2nd and 3rd year residents from Stanford. He said they have lost a couple of big names to retirement and IHO it was a program that was in decline. Still there are only two programs north of LA and South of Portland. So you better apply there if your spouse has to live there. It can't be that bad.

 

[Hector]

Dear Readers,

I haven't checked this forum since I was a medical student and I must say it seems much like it was before. A lot of rumor and hearsay gets spread around like gospel. You are free to interpret my remarks as the opinion of one west coast pathology resident. I welcome other people's opinions if they have something informative to say.

With regards to Stanford and UCSF:
They are both excellent programs. They are the only two programs serving northern California (with Davis counting as central). Although the medical center merger did not go well, the pathology departments share a mutually respectful relationship with each other. The two chairs, Drs. Stephen Galli and Abul Abbas are good friends from Harvard, and graduates of both programs are well represented on each other?s faculty roster. Both programs recruited their chairs at exactly the same time, (about five years ago).

Stanford and UCSF have different academic strengths. Palo Alto and San Francisco are two very different environments. If you're interested in these programs, I encourage you to go interview there (and do a sub-I if you really want to).

With regards to hearsay about Stanford being in decline:
Stanford's pathology program is as strong as ever. Residents that I know there, are very happy and proud. I am aware of only one resident leaving the program amicably to pursue career research.

When I was on my interview trail, I spoke with many faculty from different top institutions. I have heard the opinion from many of them (quite unsolicited) that Stanford was the strongest AP program in the West because of the strength of the faculty. Many of the original bigwigs (Richard Kempson, Ron Dorfman) continue to sign out cases and give talks to residents on a regular basis. Many of the Stanford faculty are authors of the AFIP fascicle in their field and have authored (or helped author) many of the most influential papers and text books in their field.

UCSF is no slouch either. Stanford has been a very academic program with a strong research focus. Their graduates find jobs at high-profile academic institutions as well as community hospitals/practices. UCSF has also produced many community pathologists and Dr. Abbas told me (on my interview) that he wants to elevate the department?s research profile. UCSF?s infrastructure is receiving major upgrades and I fully expect their program to maintain its strong well-rounded reputation as well.

I encourage interested candidates to visit these places and talk to residents and faculty. Each program has its own problems. Every program will have disgruntled residents and and their share of department politics. Ask people what they think, but decide for yourself what you think is in your best interest (and the best interest of your family).

I don?t know if I?ll have time to check this forum often, but I can try to respond to comments as necessary. Good luck.