Awful ugrad GPA, need some guidance

[whatisthedeal]

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I'm a bio major who just started his senior year with a 2.03 cGPA (bcpm of 1.73) and a Biology gpa of 1.38. I need to make a decision between sticking to my major or switching to a BGS with a concentration in biology+chem minor and just taking a bunch of easy classes (edit: by which I mean classes I know I can do well in and have an interest in, maybe staying longer and picking up a second major) to improve my chances at a Post Bacc or an SMP

I am supposed to graduate after next semester, walking in May 2013. In order to get my bio degree however, I would need to get a C+ or better in the three bio courses I'm taking now, as well as retake two bio courses next semester for a B or better alongside the senior seminar course, and a stats course. Most of the bio courses I would need to take this semester and next would be upper levels and looking back on my previous grades, my advisers are very pessimistic on whether I could do it.

They have recommended I get a bachelor of general studies with a concentration in biology and a chem minor so that I can clear my schedule, forget about retaking anything, and only take the one bio class to meet the conc. requirement, and I can fill out the rest of my schedule with easy classes I know I can do well in. This would get me to graduate on time but my best possible gpa would be a 2.5.

Would I be able to do a postbacc with a ugrad gpa of 2.5?
What about SMP?
Or would I need to stay an extra year to qualify for either?
Would I be able to do it all informally and retake the BCPM classes at a community college?

I'm at the end of my rope SDN. I've let myself get beat around in a difficult major for several years and don't know what to do. There isn't anyone in my life that is familiar with US medical schools, post baccs, SMPs and so forth to guide me.

 

[IlDestriero]

I'm a bio major who just started his senior year with a 2.03 cGPA (bcpm of 1.73) and a Biology gpa of 1.38...

...They have recommended I get a bachelor of general studies ...

No offense intended, but with a biology GPA of 1.38, what makes you think you can handle the rigor medical school at all. I don't think any quality program would offer you a spot. Just my opinion, you need a lot more than a SMP.
Good luck on the MCAT, not learning the material the first time isn't going to help you much.
What ever you do, don't graduate without a degree (BGS [which I had too look up btw]), you'll be unemployable.

 

[whatisthedeal]

No offense intended, but with a biology GPA of 1.38, what makes you think you can handle the rigor medical school at all. I don't think any quality program would offer you a spot. Just my opinion, you need a lot more than a SMP.
Good luck on the MCAT, not learning the material the first time isn't going to help you much.
What ever you do, don't graduate without a degree (BGS [which I had too look up btw]), you'll be unemployable.

I've taken 7 bio classes. I was a dumb kid who didn't know what he was doing for the first four bio classes and I had a pressing medical illness last semester which tore my time management faculties apart and ruined the last three bio classes. I don't have any Fs but the 4 Ds really weigh my gpa down, and to be honest, I don't think I've ever really been interested in the material the way I would be in med school. All my bio classes had labs attached to them so I have an overabundance of lab hours I can use to get a lab tech job, even if I switch to the BGS.

 

[Goucher2013]

Realistically, about the only way you could fix this in the short term is to take a full load of extra hard, not easy, courses during your senior year and excel in them. Admissions officers for SMPs will spot easy courses a mile away and you won't be able to convince them that things have changed.

If you have the time and money to spare, you could do the same again during a fifth year, but this would again involve challenging yourself and scoring close to an A average while doing so. Don't be under any delusions: if you want to salvage things as an undergrad, it's all about proving people wrong, including your department, who sound like they're trying to do you a favor with the concentration thing. If you want to get into med school, don't take that favor, go all out, but be prepared to face the possibility of further failure in your final courses.

But all in all I think I'll be a downer and suggest pursuing a challenging job for a few years instead. Do something that makes people forget about your undergrad gpa. There are still jobs available with a sub-3.0 GPA that are pretty much guaranteed to give you life experiences that will make you stand out, e.g. enlisting in the military. Then, 5-7 years after your bachelors, you'll be in a position to retake your premed courses, perhaps starting at a community college, but preferably in a challenging part-time environment such as Harvard Extension.

Your life isn't set in stone at 22. I'm a pre-med in my 30s, so I've had a decade of non-medical experiences. I wouldn't trade them for the world. They'll make me a significantly better doctor. Especially because I've failed. A lot. Learning to deal with failure is something that is utterly lacking in our current system, but absolutely necessary to truly achieve anything beyond the ordinary.

Accept it, you've failed to get even close to the GPA necessary to attend med school. Dust yourself off, make the most of things and find another field where you can excel. Then, if your passion for medicine still burns brightly when you're 27, you'll not only be in the position to start pre-med afresh, but you'll have the kind of compelling story to match. Whatever you choose, be realistic about your circumstances.

 

[LaughingGas]

I've taken 7 bio classes. I was a dumb kid who didn't know what he was doing for the first four bio classes and I had a pressing medical illness last semester which tore my time management faculties apart and ruined the last three bio classes. I don't have any Fs but the 4 Ds really weigh my gpa down, and to be honest, I don't think I've ever really been interested in the material the way I would be in med school. All my bio classes had labs attached to them so I have an overabundance of lab hours I can use to get a lab tech job, even if I switch to the BGS.

I doubt 4 Ds can down your GPA that much to your current GPA. I'm sorry you had serious illness for your bio classes, but you are not a baby anymore. You get sick, then you do whatever you do to either keep the grades or get Withdraw for a legitimate reason. First than anything, you have to be responsible for your own grades and not blame on the " not being interested in the material". I'm sure at least half of pre-meds are not interested in learning physics or other prerequisites depending on the individual they are required to take, either for their degree or to fulfill prereq.
I'm sure you are thinking what is this predental dude saying. Well. I was in similar shoes like you with low GPA., and after all these years, I still catch myself wanting to go back to the old me. At least academically I matured enough to not miss a day of class for the past closely 3 years.Even after doing ok at postbac, and doing well on standardized test for dental school, I still doubt that I could get in b/c of my low overall GPA. Knowing med school is way more competitive to get in than dental school, first things first you need to mature and stop blaming everything else but yourself.
Your CC classes won't mean jack even if you get them As for retake, but it will be a good opportunity to start fresh in your mindset and mature. And yeah it could increase your GPA for the number game aspect for admission.
You are looking for at least 3~4 years of school work, including SMP and you still have a chance that you might not get in after all those years of work. No question that you have to do well on MCAT.
I hope this is a wake up call for you.
If you think you can't get 4.0 this semester, then stop taking classes at your institution.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Realistically, about the only way you could fix this in the short term is to take a full load of extra hard, not easy, courses during your senior year and excel in them. Admissions officers for SMPs will spot easy courses a mile away and you won't be able to convince them that things have changed.

If you have the time and money to spare, you could do the same again during a fifth year, but this would again involve challenging yourself and scoring close to an A average while doing so. Don't be under any delusions: if you want to salvage things as an undergrad, it's all about proving people wrong, including your department, who sound like they're trying to do you a favor with the concentration thing. If you want to get into med school, don't take that favor, go all out, but be prepared to face the possibility of further failure in your final courses.

But all in all I think I'll be a downer and suggest pursuing a challenging job for a few years instead. Do something that makes people forget about your undergrad gpa. There are still jobs available with a sub-3.0 GPA that are pretty much guaranteed to give you life experiences that will make you stand out, e.g. enlisting in the military. Then, 5-7 years after your bachelors, you'll be in a position to retake your premed courses, perhaps starting at a community college, but preferably in a challenging part-time environment such as Harvard Extension.

Your life isn't set in stone at 22. I'm a pre-med in my 30s, so I've had a decade of non-medical experiences. I wouldn't trade them for the world. They'll make me a significantly better doctor. Especially because I've failed. A lot. Learning to deal with failure is something that is utterly lacking in our current system, but absolutely necessary to truly achieve anything beyond the ordinary.

Accept it, you've failed to get even close to the GPA necessary to attend med school. Dust yourself off, make the most of things and find another field where you can excel. Then, if your passion for medicine still burns brightly when you're 27, you'll not only be in the position to start pre-med afresh, but you'll have the kind of compelling story to match. Whatever you choose, be realistic about your circumstances.

Amazing post.

 

[chayo234]

I'm a bio major who just started his senior year with a 2.03 cGPA (bcpm of 1.73) and a Biology gpa of 1.38. I need to make a decision between sticking to my major or switching to a BGS with a concentration in biology+chem minor and just taking a bunch of easy classes (edit: by which I mean classes I know I can do well in and have an interest in, maybe staying longer and picking up a second major) to improve my chances at a Post Bacc or an SMP

I am supposed to graduate after next semester, walking in May 2013. In order to get my bio degree however, I would need to get a C+ or better in the three bio courses I'm taking now, as well as retake two bio courses next semester for a B or better alongside the senior seminar course, and a stats course. Most of the bio courses I would need to take this semester and next would be upper levels and looking back on my previous grades, my advisers are very pessimistic on whether I could do it.

They have recommended I get a bachelor of general studies with a concentration in biology and a chem minor so that I can clear my schedule, forget about retaking anything, and only take the one bio class to meet the conc. requirement, and I can fill out the rest of my schedule with easy classes I know I can do well in. This would get me to graduate on time but my best possible gpa would be a 2.5.

Would I be able to do a postbacc with a ugrad gpa of 2.5?
What about SMP?
Or would I need to stay an extra year to qualify for either?
Would I be able to do it all informally and retake the BCPM classes at a community college?

I'm at the end of my rope SDN. I've let myself get beat around in a difficult major for several years and don't know what to do. There isn't anyone in my life that is familiar with US medical schools, post baccs, SMPs and so forth to guide me.

It seems like you want a beacon of hope but a reality check would do you more good than anything else.

Read this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11083370&postcount=3

Apart from Dr. Midlife's recommendations, I would also do other things like ask yourself why you want to go to medical school, what you have done so far to prove that you want to go to medical school, and lastly, what you can do to change.

This might sound strange but it actually really helped put things into perspective - write a personal statement letter that you would write for medical school application and ask an admissions committee member to read it, It can be your pre-med advisor if you want. Ask for an honest opinion and take that to heart.

 

[darklabel]

Post-bacc is easy to get into, but MD is completely out of the question, you will never recover from such a low science GPA. Most people have difficulty recovering from a 3.2!

Anyways, your best hope is look at yourself, fix whatever is hindering you and set out a path of 6 semesters (2 years including summer) of retakes (anything that is B- or lower) and advance science classes and get straight A's from here on out. Then you can apply broadly to DO. No SMP will even consider you and quite frankly is a waste of time and money for you since you're just too far below for any medical school to take your seriously.

Fix whatever it is that hindered you from good grades. Whether you partied, death, poor, bankruptcy,, it needs to be alleviated before you start this journey. Another suggestion would be talk to one of the big 4 Caribbean schools (Focus on SGU more) and their counselors can help set up a path for you (no medical school, including DO would do such a thing).

In my opinion, your counselor is a waste of time since they will (rightfully) deter you away from the medical profession. In my opinion, look into another aspect of medical profession (or just another profession in general) if you desire such as radiology assistant, paramedic, nurse practitioner etc etc. You're grades are just too low and even grade forgiveness will take a while (and money) to fix your situation and even then there is never any guarantees when it comes to medical school.

Good luck and I'm sorry we don't have better advice than what is listed here. I'm usually optimistic, but I have to be honest here. You only have one way to fix it so I would start now if you are interested in trying.

 

[deleted248403]

Another suggestion would be talk to one of the big 4 Caribbean schools (Focus on SGU more) and their counselors can help set up a path for you (no medical school, including DO would do such a thing).

You are delusional if you think the Caribs care about anything other than taking your $$$$$

They would sell you a recipe for ice if they thought you'd buy it.

Of course the Caribs are going to say go to them, and they wont care if you fail out cos they took your $80k a year and laughed all the way to the bank.

The solution to poor study skills and crappy GPA is not go to the Carib - thats how you add debt to your problem list

 

[IlDestriero]

All my bio classes had labs attached to them so I have an overabundance of lab hours I can use to get a lab tech job, even if I switch to the BGS.

I work at a large university affiliated children's hospital, we have people asking all the time about research jobs, summer research internships, part time research jobs, etc. I wouldn't look at your application if you didn't have a science degree. You're delusional if you think a BGS with some science classes that you didn't even pass will get you a research job. Nobody will waste the time looking at you because there are 50 other applicants with science degrees (biology, chem, biochem, bioengineering, physics, etc.) applying for the same job. We are deluged with applicants who cold call and email their CVs for unadvertised jobs in our one little department. Fortunately, most go to the department's Research Director, who they must look up online.
Don't expect a good job with a BGS. If my kids told me they were getting a BGS I would pull them out of school until they decided on a major which would allow them to get an actual job, or admission to graduate school. A BGS ain't going to open any grad school doors for you either. I don't think my university even offered that degree, which isn't a surprise actually.

 

[Goucher2013]

Well, now that we've torn the kid all up, does anyone have any further suggestions about alternatives to med school for the next few years? Maybe work up the EMT ladder, etc?

 

[deleted248403]

Well, now that we've torn the kid all up, does anyone have any further suggestions about alternatives to med school for the next few years? Maybe work up the EMT ladder, etc?

Nope thats an average EC these days.

Needs GPA repair and a rocking MCAT - discussing ECs is like talking about paint colour on the top deck of the titanic as the ship is sinking...

 

[Goucher2013]

Nope thats an average EC these days.

Needs GPA repair and a rocking MCAT - discussing ECs is like talking about paint colour on the top deck of the titanic as the ship is sinking...

I meant alternatives to med school and being a doctor, whether for the time being or for life. And being an EMT isn't an EC where I come from.

 

[deleted248403]

I meant alternatives to med school and being a doctor, whether for the time being or for life. And being an EMT isn't an EC where I come from.

It is in medical school..... of my class of 170ish, there are at least 30 of us who have EMT experience....doesnt exactly make it unique

But fair enough about alternatives to med school..... with that in mind then PA or NP programs might be options. Don't know the GPA requirements for them, and not implying they are inferior to doctors (blah blah not opening that can of worms). Paramedic would be an option.

EMT-B isn't really medicine - i've done it for 9 years now

 

[chayo234]

If I were in his situation and depending on his financial abilities; if medicine was my ultimate goal, I would probably start back from scratch. Re-do the core basic sciences for 2 years, kill the MCAT in the following summer, do a third year to finish off a second bachelors while applying to medical school. This would be the quickest route to a possible MD and most likely a route to a DO school.

Of course you would be juggling a potential research side position and doing additional volunteer/EC on the side during school.

 

[Goucher2013]

EMT is a job. Playing the piano is an EC. There's something seriously messed up about med school admissions when most people think about earning a living as an EC. Yes, it means extracurricular, but dividing applicants' lives into 'academic' and 'everything else' isn't exactly healthy for recruitment.

[goes back to dreaming about med school requiring at least 5 years of work experience...]

 

[chayo234]

What is it that people feel like they have to do things out of the ordinary to stand out of thousands of people? Learning and experiencing things that make you feel passionate and making it into your very own story will make you different enough. It is more important to prove to adcoms you are capable of finishing medical school.

I think 5 years is unreasonable. At max it should be 2 years of full time work that should give you a leg up compared to others.