AZCOM - does anyone have anything bad to say?

[Pooh Chong]

Hi everyone,

In all my time browsing the forums and time spent on SDN I have never heard of anything particularly negative about AZCOM. I have heard negative comments about other schools, but none about AZCOM that seem to warrant a potential medical school student looking elsewhere.

Does anyone have anything negative to comment? --- I am a potential student who has already been accepted and is torn between COMP and AZCOM. I think comments from any AZCOM students would be helpful.

Can anyone comment specifically on the clinical rotation situation regarding the 3rd and 4th year?


COMP has the NW Track which allows me to go back to the northwest for the 3rd and 4th year, this is appealing to me as I can go home and the NW is where I would like to practice. Can anyone comment about a student's ability to schedule rotations outside of AZ and in particular the NW?


I am adding an additional question.

addendum: How hard is it scheduling rotations outside AZCOM affiliations? I've heard that a hospital in Phoenix essentially does not allow AZCOM students to rotate there because it was of something UofA demanded. Is it difficult to schedule core-type rotations outside of AZCOM affiliations?

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[rachaelbb]

I am an MSII an AZCOM, and I am currently scheduling my rotations for the MSIII year. Although there are some required months in AZ, MSIII year allows up to 6 (out of 11) months to be done out of state. This is accomplished by 1) three rotations of any discipline other than OB/GYN or Peds, 2) any OB/GYN or Peds core rotations, and 3) elective/4th yr core. OB/GYN and Peds are given the option for out of state rotations because Arizona does not offer any hospital-based training for those disciplines to AZCOM MSIII students. The only rotation time required 'in state' is the first one in July. Out of state rotations may be completed anywhere you'd like in the U.S., as long as that program takes 3rd year students and you have fulfilled any requirements particular to that hospital or particular rotation.

4th year rotations are even more flexible for out of state options, but this is not yet may area of expertise.

Hopefully this is helpful information about AZCOM's clinical education. Good luck

 

[FowlersGap]

i got accepted to comp and azcom

i liked the atmosphere in az a lot but i'm a native californian so i was a little biased

but regarding negative comments; a friend of mine told me that in the first year class many (most) people are married and the social scene and class cohesiveness is not all there...a lot of people have family business to take care of before going all out with classmates

not that i'm anti-married folks or anything!

its a superficial reason though...

i don't know if i'd base my decision on the social scene but i'd want to be somewhere i'd be happy

 

[Pooh Chong]

Thanks so much rachelbb for the response, it certainly gave me specific detail I did not know about.

To be honest I like AZCOM a lot and normally I wouldn't think of attending COMP because I like AZCOM so much, but I hear that clinical education (and the # of electives) is just as important as pre-clinical education if not more important. With that in mind, I've heard lots of good things about the rotations offered by COMP and that there could be difficulties with rotations at AZCOM.

Any more insight...good or bad...would be much appreciated. Thank you.

 

[LukeWhite]

Pooh,

I chose AZCOM at least partially because of something you've mentioned--the fact that nobody seems to be unhappy with their choice here. I also chose it for the clinical years, which I gather are particularly spectacular if you're motivated to do the research on the good spots and if you're angling towards primary care. The training for those going into specialties is excellent also.

I have to stretch a bit to think of bad things to say, but for the sake of fairness I'll try to come up with a few complaints. Minor things, though, and I'm very happy with the school.

-Some departments are a bit uneven in their teaching, and the same professor will often teach a long stretch of one thing before switching to another prof. If the prof teaching isn't exceptionally good, I at least sometimes have problems switching gears in terms of how to prepare and what's expected for the test.

-OMM diagnosis takes up the entire first quarter. I'd have preferred to learn how to treat a little while diagnosing, but that's a minor gripe. OMM labs aren't very well structured, and will often stretch out a long time with significant gaps of inactivity in between.

-There's not an attached university or hospital, so the campus is a bit insular. I get around this by doing a fair amount of stuff outside school in the city, but the effort has to be made.

Can't think of any other complaints offhand. It's a spectacular school.

 

[Pooh Chong]

Luke,

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed post. Any thoughts on housing? Off-campus? Where? On-campus? Studio v. 1 bedroom v. 2 bedroom v. luxury 1 bedroom v. luxury 2 bedroom???


To anyone else, any thouhts on housing or with regard to the original post?

 

[KittenKnows]

rachaelbb:
you mention that there are no hospitals in Arizona for OB/GYN and peds. Do students have difficulty in the 4th year doing hospital based rotations in Arizona too? I want to do some hospital based rotations in Arizona in my 4th year and I wonder if this will be difficult to do. Can you tell me which hosptials are easier to get rotations at? I am looking at Mayo in Scottsdale, St. Josephs, Maricopa General, St. Lukes, and Good Sam but I think the majority of these are run by U of A.
Also can you give me the contact info for the person that handles your rotations at AZCOM? Maybe they can help me make some contacts in Arizona as well.
Thanks.

 

[LukeWhite]

PC,

There's an embarrassment of riches when it comes to housing. Many people in class have bought their own homes, which are very cheap around here and skyrocketing in property value.

I opted for the on-campus housing, which is a bit more expensive with slightly fewer amenities than many of the apartments nearby. Being able to walk to class is a big advantage, though.

I'm in a luxury two-bedroom, which I'd recommend if you don't mind a roommate. They're FAR nicer than the standards. Ask for a 3rd floor apt. if you can, since those have vaulted ceilings.

The lux-2-bedrooms have one small bathroom and one enormous one (one attached to a bedroom, the other in the hallway), a fairly nice kitchen (the newer ones have dishwashers) and a private balcony. Basic cable and high-speed internet are included in all the apartments.

Electric bills are the one downside, which is to be expected in Arizona. My last three electric bills have been $200-100-50, split with a roommate.

There's a large clubhouse with various entertainment and kitchen accessories, a swimming pool, fully gated community, etc. On the whole, I'd say the student housing is a major plus for the school. It was so nice not to have to hunt for apartments and to have rent and utilities automatically deducted from the student account. Those who are more adventurous, however, tend to be able to get somewhat better deals just across the street.

 

[Pooh Chong]

Luke,
Because of your post I now want a 3rd floor luxury apartment!

Would anyone mind commenting on the housing issue a bit more? I guess I am more interested in 1-bedroom apartments as I am a little scared of getting a non-compatible roommate for my first year.

It would make sense that the order of "niceness" would correspond with the dollar amount being asked...but I ask which of the possible options are really the BEST DEAL FOR WHAT YOU GET.

How would you order the four options:

a: Luxury 1-bedroom 1104 sq. ft. $775 (building G & H) With dishwasher & added upgrades.

b: Luxury 1-bedroom 1104 sq. ft. $803 3rd floor (building G & H) With dishwaster & added upgrades.

c: Studio Apartments 613 sq. ft. $494 (building G & H) with dishwaster & added upgrades.

d: Studio Apartments 613 sq. ft. $ 509 (buidling G & H) With dishwaster & added upgrades.


I guess I really want a dishwasher real bad!

 

[LukeWhite]

b over a without a doubt...I think the vaulted ceilings are worth the extra dollar a day. As for the others, I'm given to understand that the studios really are tiny little things. My thinking was that with a roommate I'd have a much nice apartment for less than I'd pay for a studio. Jose in housing is excellent at getting things lined up well, so as long as you make your preferences very clear on the little personality-match thing they send, you'd probably have good luck with a roommate.

I specifically requested a roommate who was an MS1 in the DO program, which I do think is important. If you're stuck with someone in the other programs, there's more potential for incompatibility since the other programs don't have every Monday tests. From what I've seen, within the DO class more or less everyone gets along; I think I'd be fine with any of the members of my class in student housing as roommates.

 

[jhug]

From what I've seen, within the DO class more or less everyone gets along; I think I'd be fine with any of the members of my class in student housing as roommates.

this is really true!
we don't have a dishwasher in our unit on campus but we bought a table top one at walmart that has worked great for over a year. the thing i love about on campus is that the only bill you get is electricity (which now is about $50) phone, water, internet, is included in what you pay. I, like my classmates, can't think of anything substantially negative to say about azcom. I am grateful to be here.

 

[daelroy]

I already pm'd you but I thought I would share my thoughts with others who are interested.

I personally did not like AZCOM based on my interview and feedback from friends who attend the school.

The criticisms were not glaring but the general notion I got was that these students would have went elsewhere if given the opportunity to start over. Their impression of AZCOM was it was better than most DO schools, but it wasn't in the top 5 like the impression it is given on studentdoctor. And I would have to concur with this.

The campus is beautifull but it is in a rather remote area of Phoenix near the west side in Glendale. The popular areas are found in Scottsdale, Tempe and Ahwautukee which is 30-60 minutes away depending upon traffic.

The other criticisms focused on their rotations being very unstructured. And I suppose that depends on your perspective. Some like the flexibility of it. Others hate the lack of structure it has. Getting 4th year rotations in Arizona can be difficult.

Other feedback I received was the homogenous nature of the student body. It is rather conservative and lacks diversity. A large portion of the student body tended to be older and married. AZCOM has a large percentage of Mormon students which leads to the conservative nature of the campus. So if you are someone who grew up in a liberal and urban setting, and you want to attend a school with younger students AZCOM may not be for you. want to seek out. In my opinion, TUCOM, CCOM, Western, PCOM and Nova better suit these requirements

 

[bla_3x]

Other feedback I received was the homogenous nature of the student body. It is rather conservative and lacks diversity. A large portion of the student body tended to be older and married. AZCOM has a large percentage of Mormon students which leads to the conservative nature of the campus

I might be able to add some insight.
As to the ?conservative? nature of the student body/school, I don?t think that this is an issue. I mean, it?s ?medical school?. I am not understanding what exactly would be considered a non conservative medical school??? We are entering the most conservative profession known to man. As to the ?large portion? that are older and married, we had something like 148 people in our class. I wouldn?t say a ?large portion? are older and married. I think that the majority of the classes lean towards the more traditional med student I guess it depends on where you draw the line.
I grew up in Las Vegas, fairly urban, fairly liberal I didn?t feel out of place at all. There is a great night scene in Scottsdale, although I haven?t been to Tempe?.Hey, ASU was voted the ?Best Party School in the nation? so I would assume the scene is rockin down there. The distance thing with the eastern cities?you get used to it.
Our class may lack a bit in the diversity category, but it is FAR from homogeneous. Again, Very Few (but not all) medical schools of any kind will too much in their class consistency.
I have said this before, but you cannot beat the professors here! The open door policy is Sooo true.

The other criticisms focused on their rotations being very unstructured. And I suppose that depends on your perspective. Some like the flexibility of it. Others hate the lack of structure it has. Getting 4th year rotations in Arizona can be difficult.

Rotations: Not there yet, but I am not worried. I am one who like the freedom of the rotations. We are able to do quite a few out of state, which some think is cool, while others don?t and can stay here. I heard the opposite about 4th year. A lot of hospitals want only 4th years, so it actually makes it easier than in the 3rd, so I?ve heard. Our board scores rock!! And our grads get great residencies (md derm, md ortho, for example) Bottom line, A great school!

If I had it all over to do again?.I would have save the freakin money on the applications and just chose AZCOM!!

This is just my humble opinion.

 

[bla_3x]

Other feedback I received was the homogenous nature of the student body. It is rather conservative and lacks diversity. A large portion of the student body tended to be older and married. AZCOM has a large percentage of Mormon students which leads to the conservative nature of the campus

I might be able to add some insight.
As to the ?conservative? nature of the student body/school, I don?t think that this is an issue. I mean, it?s ?medical school?. I am not understanding what exactly would be considered a non conservative medical school??? We are entering the most conservative profession known to man. As to the ?large portion? that are older and married, we had something like 148 people in our class. I wouldn?t say a ?large portion? are older and married. I think that the majority of the classes lean towards the more traditional med student I guess it depends on where you draw the line.
I grew up in Las Vegas, fairly urban, fairly liberal I didn?t feel out of place at all. There is a great night scene in Scottsdale, although I haven?t been to Tempe?.Hey, ASU was voted the ?Best Party School in the nation? so I would assume the scene is rockin down there. The distance thing with the eastern cities?you get used to it.
Our class may lack a bit in the diversity category, but it is FAR from homogeneous. Again, Very Few (but not all) medical schools of any kind will too much in their class consistency.
I have said this before, but you cannot beat the professors here! The open door policy is Sooo true.

The other criticisms focused on their rotations being very unstructured. And I suppose that depends on your perspective. Some like the flexibility of it. Others hate the lack of structure it has. Getting 4th year rotations in Arizona can be difficult.

Rotations: Not there yet, but I am not worried. I am one who like the freedom of the rotations. We are able to do quite a few out of state, which some think is cool, while others don?t and can stay here. I heard the opposite about 4th year. A lot of hospitals want only 4th years, so it actually makes it easier than in the 3rd, so I?ve heard. Our board scores rock!! And our grads get great residencies (md derm, md ortho, for example) Bottom line, A great school!

If I had it all over to do again?.I would have save the freakin money on the applications and just chose AZCOM!!

This is just my humble opinion.

 

[LukeWhite]

I'd agree with both the previous posts to some extent--the student body is fairly homogenous, and it's good to get out on the town.

The homogeneity is actually sort of pleasant, and part of what adds to the famed "niceness" of the school. The high proportion of marrieds and LDS lends the school a definitive family feel, which is perhaps why we don't have too much of the every-man-for-himself gunner vibe so often present in schools with more young singles.

With that said, the amount to do on and directly around campus is limited. But Phoenix is spectacular. I get to a few concerts a month, Tempe's got the college town atmosphere down almost to self-parody, and Scottsdale makes a reasonable attempt at the LA club vibe.

So in short, social life at AZCOM is much like the academic setup: there's an excellent core to fall back on, but the greatest rewards are reserved for those who are proactive. If you're the type who prefers a self-contained collegiate Fortress of Fun and a no-brainer set program of rotations, AZCOM's not a good match. Those who don't mind exploring the town and, in 3rd and 4th year, the country, will adore the school.

 

[referee]

Originally posted by daelroy


I personally did not like AZCOM based on my interview and feedback from friends who attend the school.

The campus is beautifull but it is in a rather remote area of Phoenix near the west side in Glendale. The popular areas are found in Scottsdale, Tempe and Ahwautukee which is 30-60 minutes away depending upon traffic.

1) were you accepted?

2) how much free time do you think you will have?

There is more than enough trouble around here to get into. This is also medical school, what would the benefits be for us to have bars within walking distance? I partied in undergrad, but I like living with less broken bottles, fights, and disturbances around me.

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by bla_3x
I might be able to add some insight.
As to the ?conservative? nature of the student body/school, I don?t think that this is an issue. I mean, it?s ?medical school?. I am not understanding what exactly would be considered a non conservative medical school??? We are entering the most conservative profession known to man. As to the ?large portion? that are older and married, we had something like 148 people in our class. I wouldn?t say a ?large portion? are older and married. I think that the majority of the classes lean towards the more traditional med student I guess it depends on where you draw the line.

I think we all know the difference between a student body that consists mostly of LDS and married couples versus one that contains mostly singles that are not very religious such as most medical schools located in large cities. I'm at AZCOM and I can clearly note the diffence between our students and the ones at the U of A for example.

I grew up in Las Vegas, fairly urban, fairly liberal I didn?t feel out of place at all. There is a great night scene in Scottsdale, although I haven?t been to Tempe?.Hey, ASU was voted the ?Best Party School in the nation? so I would assume the scene is rockin down there. The distance thing with the eastern cities?you get used to it.

The fact that you haven't been to Tempe shows you how far the campus is from the fun spots. Scottsdale's club scene is nice. It would be even nicer if it wasn't 45 minutes away without traffic.

Our class may lack a bit in the diversity category, but it is FAR from homogeneous. Again, Very Few (but not all) medical schools of any kind will too much in their class consistency.

That is not true. Many other medical schools offer classes with far more Asians, and African Americans. I think we have one African American in our class? There might be more. Relatively speaking, our class is homogenous.

I have said this before, but you cannot beat the professors here! The open door policy is Sooo true.

That is true but this thread is asking to clarify the bad things associated with our school.

Rotations: Not there yet, but I am not worried. I am one who like the freedom of the rotations. We are able to do quite a few out of state, which some think is cool, while others don?t and can stay here.

Actually, they can't stay here on every rotation and that has been a huge problem for those who don't wish to travel. Thanks to the University of Arizona, we are prevented from rotating in many hospitals which prevents us from doing certain rotations here. Where are you getting your information, Jim Walters?

 

[bla_3x]

That is true but this thread is asking to clarify the bad things associated with our school.

Well, better slap the cuffs on and boot me from SDN! But in actuality, my whole post was pretty positive.

Like I said, this is just my opinion. Although, at points, you sound like you are trying to make me sound like I don?t know what I am taking about.

I think we all know the difference between a student body that consists mostly of LDS and married couples versus one that contains mostly singles that are not very religious such as most medical schools located in large cities. I'm at AZCOM and I can clearly note the diffence between our students and the ones at the U of A for example.

I have close friends at 5 other medical schools in the US (MD and DO) and I have been to several as an undergrad as an officer in a pre professional committee. I do believe that a majority of classes I have seen are very much like mine at least?maybe there is a big difference between classes, who knows. It is true, there are several LDS students, but how is this really affecting other people? They don?t put their beliefs on others, just as the nonreligious/other religion folks don?t press their beliefs.
It?s not like those in our class who are married and have kids are like excommunicated from the rest! Some of the coolest and most popular people in our class are married and have kids. I case it sounds that way?I don?t have any kids, not LDS, and am not married.

That is not true. Many other medical schools offer classes with far more Asians, and African Americans. I think we have one African American in our class? There might be more. Relatively speaking, our class is homogenous.

This is a touchy issue, in regards to diversity. But what is just not that any minority students applied? I don?t know if that is the case, but perfectly possible. I think that it is foolish to judge any institution in this way. Hey, I am half Mexican, does this help

The fact that you haven't been to Tempe shows you how far the campus is from the fun spots. Scottsdale's club scene is nice. It would be even nicer if it wasn't 45 minutes away without traffic.

I wouldn?t say 45min w/o traffic. 30?ok but that really isn?t that bad. I mean, how much should one expect to be going there during med school anyway? And, there is NO shortage of things to do in the area. Of course, for those that believe the world revolves around clubs may need to take a drive.

Actually, they can't stay here on every rotation and that has been a huge problem for those who don't wish to travel. Thanks to the University of Arizona, we are prevented from rotating in many hospitals which prevents us from doing certain rotations here. Where are you getting your information, Jim Walters?

True, but this IS something that should have been hashed out in the interview. At least at mine, we went over this a lot, with faculty and some 3rd years who hung out with us. It does ultimately come down to personal preference. My information?? 2nd, 3rd, 4th years?and Linda. And according to some, the noose UofA has over the area is loosening. Slowly, but loosening.

 

[LukeWhite]

I'll toss in a few more negative things while they're near to mind. I appreciate the point of the thread; it certainly may seem sometimes as if the AZCOM students are sugarcoating things, since we generally have nothing but good things to say. But there's enough overwhelmingly good stuff that it really does outweigh any negatives (unless, of course, you're virulently anti-LDS and dead-set on that prestigious plastic surgery and an entirely Phoenix-based education)

NOTES:

On the upside, we're provided extensive notes for all our classes, obviating the need for a note-taking service. However, there are several professors I can think of who really just don't edit their notes carefully. These errors can run the gamut from small but annoying typos to full-blown factual errors.

In classes in which spelling counts, like anatomy, this can be a major problem since the spelling in the notes will be inconsistent with the text, and even from one page of the notes to the next.

Anatomy is really the class in which this happens most frequently with a few professors. Juxtaposition of terms like "anterior" and "posterior" is particularly common and reflects, I think, a certain carelessness in writing the notes.

But then again, we do have notes, so I'm not complaining overly much. It's certainly something incoming students should be aware of, though.

 

[azcomdiddy]

Well, better slap the cuffs on and boot me from SDN! But in actuality, my whole post was pretty positive.

The original poster didn't ask for positive reviews of AZCOM. If he or she wanted glowing reviews, the person could have read the hundreds of other propaganda like threads.

Like I said, this is just my opinion. Although, at points, you sound like you are trying to make me sound like I don?t know what I am taking about.

I think you know what you are talking about. I just think you are putting a positive spin on the school to be defensive. The OP requested negative information. if you can't be objective about your own school then don't respond. Some of your replies seem very contrived as if you are saying anything you can to defend the school.
You are in the wrong thread buddy. Try one of the others like AZCOM 2007 students. You can tell everyone how great yet inexpensive the surrounding apartments are.

It is true, there are several LDS students, but how is this really affecting other people? They don?t put their beliefs on others, just as the nonreligious/other religion folks don?t press their beliefs. It?s not like those in our class who are married and have kids are like excommunicated from the rest! Some of the coolest and most popular people in our class are married and have kids. I case it sounds that way?I don?t have any kids, not LDS, and am not married.

It does make a difference. Whether you are discussing arranging school sponsored events, student government issues etc. One of the biggest reasons why we don't carry alcohol at events is because of the large percentage of LDS students. This wouldn't happen at PCOM for instance. Furthermore, it does impede learning at times. Try arranging study sessions when someone has to attend to their family or church. The flexibility of your classmates' schedules is seriously limited when they are married or committed to a relgious faith. I'm not criticizing that. However, a young, single, and non-religous student may find that this doesn't appeal to him or her. This potential student should at least be given the choice to make a decision. By covering up the potential drawbacks of the school, you aren't allowing a person to make an informed decision.

This is a touchy issue, in regards to diversity. But what is just not that any minority students applied? I don?t know if that is the case, but perfectly possible. I think that it is foolish to judge any institution in this way. Hey, I am half Mexican, does this help.

Diversity in school enhances the learning process. When people are exposed to different types of people and not one group or groups, everyone benefits. This is one major reason why some of our country's best institutions like Harvard emphasize this.

I wouldn?t say 45min w/o traffic. 30?ok

Well, I'm rerferring to people who aren't driving 80 MPH the entire way.

And, there is NO shortage of things to do in the area.

Like going to Fryes, Safeway, Albertsons and Starbucks. Oh, I forgot we can go to Panda Express and Home Depot as well.

Of course, for those that believe the world revolves around clubs may need to take a drive.

Or restaraunts

True, but this IS something that should have been hashed out in the interview. At least at mine, we went over this a lot, with faculty and some 3rd years who hung out with us. It does ultimately come down to personal preference. My information?? 2nd, 3rd, 4th years?and Linda. And according to some, the noose UofA has over the area is loosening. Slowly, but loosening.

Right, I'm certain Dean Cole instructs all of the interviewers to emphasize preceptorship and the lack of hospital based rotations at a time when AZCOM is trying to recruit students.

 

[referee]

Originally posted by azcomdiddy

Or restaraunts

come on 79th and bell is not that far. How much more do you want?

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by referee
come on 79th and bell is not that far. How much more do you want?

Something other than Applebees and the other chains would be nice. How about Oreganos? Is that asking for too much?

 

[referee]

I was told that end of bell has the most restaurants in America, have you already exhausted all the choices? May I suggest home-cooking?

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by referee
I was told that end of bell has the most restaurants in America, have you already exhausted all the choices? May I suggest home-cooking?

I take it you don't get out much. Because Hooters, and In/Out Burger aren't exactly what most would consider choices? And whoever told you that it had the most restaraunts in America? I take it this same person also said there were more bars there than the French Quarter in New Orleans?

 

[referee]

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I take it you don't get out much. Because Hooters, and In/Out Burger aren't exactly what most would consider choices? And whoever told you that it had the most restaraunts in America? I take it this same person also said there were more bars there than the French Quarter in New Orleans?

More bars...now I know thats wrong. What would most consider choices than? By the obesity epidemic, I think most would consider that fine dining.

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by referee
By the obesity epidemic, I think most would consider that fine dining.

Hey DeKalb boy

Okay, you want to know where some fine dining is, check out 24th and Camelback. Go to Houstons for starters. When you are done there, we will go up a notch. Trust me, your girlfriend will like that much better than Wendys on a Friday night.

 

[referee]

Pick the date, I'll buy, should I ask for your table?

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by referee
Pick the date, I'll buy, should I ask for your table?

Whatever you do, make sure you don't ask for a Whopper. And wear shoes too.

 

[cdreed]

As a current MSI, the only complaint I have about AZCOM is the unwritten "rule" that everyone "should" attend lectures. Profs have taken to giving quizzes and giving more difficult exams if they feel that lecture attendance is dwindling.

In regards to the environment and social aspects, I happen to be one of the married with children students you seem to dislike. But part of the reason I chose AZCOM is because the campus is relatively quiet and located in a fairly nice neighborhood. I grew up in Atlanta, so I know what a great social scene is. If I were younger, that would probably have affected my decision about school attendance, as well.

Scottsdale and Tempe are not that far away. I did my undergrad at ASU West, and I used to go out at least twice a week. Who has time for that in med school anyway? And yes, there are some wonderful restaurants on the east side. I compare Glendale to suburbs of Atlanta. Chain restaurants galore exist in the area, because that's where most middle-class suburbanites choose to eat. If you have more discriminating tastes, then you will have to travel to Scottsdale or Paradise Valley.

Yes, a large portion of the student body is LDS. But I feel that people have a right to choose what they want to believe as long as they don't force it on me...

Take my opinion with a grain of salt. My overall impression of AZCOM is positive though. For the most part, I am pleased with my decision to come here.

Cyndi

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by cdreed
If I were younger, that would probably have affected my decision about school attendance, as well.

This is all I have said. So apparently if I advise others of this it means I dislike married students, but when you state this, it's okay. I don't dislike married students. However, I'm young and single. This isn't the best campus for those applying under the age of 25.

Anyway, you provided an excellent and balanced response. I wish more students could provide objecive analysis of the school.

 

[Jinyaoysiu]

Pooh Chong,

What are you looking for in a med school and why do you like AZCOM?

From what I could tell, the 2 factors important to you are:

1)Curriculum linked with the Northwest (COMP)
2)Solid clinical years (COMP)

In addition to that, COMP also has a very solid core curriculum and offers good social life. From what I've been hearing/reading, COMP's alum network and reputation are also COMP's advantages.

I think you know what you want in a med school and I would advice you just to follow your gut instinct. Knowing the negative aspects about each school won't help you decide but knowing what you want will. A school that has nothing negative(which does not exist) is not necessarily a good match for you but a school that has what you want is.

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by Jinyaoysiu
Pooh Chong,

What are you looking for in a med school and why do you like AZCOM?

From what I could tell, the 2 factors important to you are:

1)Curriculum linked with the Northwest (COMP)
2)Solid clinical years (COMP)

In addition to that, COMP also has a very solid core curriculum and offers good social life. From what I've been hearing/reading, COMP's alum network and reputation are also COMP's advantages.

I think you know what you want in a med school and I would advice you just to follow your gut instinct. Knowing the negative aspects about each school won't help you decide but knowing what you want will. A school that has nothing negative(which does not exist) is not necessarily a good match for you but a school that has what you want is.

COMP will be a better fit for you. It's class is younger and there is more to do in LA especially if you are young and single. It's class is more diverse as well. If you are dead set upon working in California, COMP will be a better option. Their match list was as impressive as ours so I don't think either schools wins out in regards to matching in prestigous programs.

Nonetheless, if you are comparing just the schools themselves regardless of location, AZCOM is certainly more benign. Our campus and facilites are amazing which makes coping with medical school less stressfull. The instructors here are much more laid back and kind than the ones at COMP(so I heard). And the student body at AZCOM doesn't have as many gunners thanks to the large portion of LDS and married students here. Although this student body isn't fun in terms of going out, they are extraordinarily nice when it comes to helping one another.

So this is what it comes down to

Fun and stressfull vs. Boring and peacefull

 

[cdreed]

azcomdiddy,

Sorry, but I did not mean to insult or offend you. Just on first reading of the thread I picked up an anti-married vibe. I probably read into your post something that was not there. I apologize.

Cyndi

 

[LukeWhite]

I'll mention again that as far as going out is concerned, it really depends on what you want out of a school. If, as azcomdiddy suggests, you're interested in a group of young, available single people with whom to go out, you'll certainly have that, though to a more limited extent than at other schools.

Phoenix has no shortage of young single people, though. I think some tend to expect that their entire social circle consist of those within the medical school. Certainly nothing wrong with that, and for them, AZCOM's social structure is more conducive if they have families than if they're young twentysomething singles (Though anyone choosing for or against a school based on its social composition might, I think, have somewhat unrealistic priorities.)

Myself, I prefer to have at least part of my social life entirely separated from school, and it's hard to beat Phoenix as far as opportunities are concerned. Between Tempe, Scottsdale, and the more bohemian downtown Phoenix vibe (my personal favorite), you've got everything you could ask for in an easily driveable distance.

Again, it's a matter of personality for most people. All things being equal, AZCOM has great facilities, instructors, and programs. As far as the gravy of clinical years and social life is concerned, the people who will be happiest on balance are those who naturally incline to independence and travel.

 

[Pooh Chong]

Hi everyone,

I just want to say that I greatly appreciate everyone taking their valuable time to add some insight/thoughts/comments to the thread. I thought after Luke's post last week this thread was done...but I guess it had some life in it for sure! I would have responded earlier, but I am teaching this year and this week took all my time away (my own classes and sub'd for another teacher).

Jinyaoysiu asked me what I was looking for in a medical school...if I could sum it up accurately then here it goes;

I want a medical school that has more of a family atmosphere, one where the students all know each other and are friendly towards each other. I also want to know my professors and I want to know (or at least feel) that they are there to teach first and do research second. I also would like like to the best I possibly can on my boards (both COMLEX + USMLE). During the clinical years, I want to have an opportunity for excellent training during rotations. My for my residency I would like to come back to the NW and work in either Portland, OR or Seattle, WA. Since I don't know which area of medicine I want to go into....whatever field it is, I would prefer to be in the NW if at all possible. This is all I want...essentially. Now I'm left with the decision to figure out which school accomplishes all of this in the best possible way for me!

I think that the flexibility of leaving AZ could be in my favor if I could schedule rotations out in OR or WA state. Could someone explain to me what factors determine whether you can do a rotation at a hospital? What the possible bad/good aspects could be? If I were able to do some rotations in the NW then I think everything couold work out well for me and I should be able to land a residency there. It is true that you are more likely to match at a hospital if you have done a rotation at that hospital isn't it?

I'd like to say I do appreciate the time people have taken to PM with their thoughts (I appreciate both the positive & negative thoughts about AZCOM as well as COMP).

 

[jhug]

It is true that you are more likely to match at a hospital if you have done a rotation at that hospital isn't it?

like many of us posting here, i am a first year and limited in my total understanding of how this works...but...from what i do think i know, this is the main way to land a residency. It is asking a lot for a residency program to accept you without intimate knowledge of how you work. A letter will help, experiencing you first hand will leave a lasting impression.
As far as lining things up, we have a clinical office with info on every rotation a student has done...where, with who, how it went. i havn't had the time to look but i would imagine others from the NW have come here and wanted to go back as well and will have a file on where they rotated. If you see one you are interested in you let the proper people know and together you try and work out the details. (schedule,etc..)

from what you've said about wanting a friendly, family atmosphere....you will be hard pressed to find a better school than azcom (of course this is the only med school i've attended) The faculty are wonderful and make it known that they are here for us. One of the biggest reasons i came here is because i could see where my $$ was going. IMO, the faculty here are second to none (of course this is the only med school i've attended) Just like students, you are going to come across some malignant ones...the key is to limit how much they matastasize
this school isn't perfect, it's not some utopia in the desert...but i can't think of one thing i would want different (within reason)

 

[Kadyra]

Alrighty... What do I not like about AZCOM... There's plenty.

The Deans ignore the fact that we all go to the school we got into or the school in the location we wanted to be. They get extremely defensive when confronted with the fact that we don't have a base hospital for rotations. One I can quote as saying, "You knew when you applied here that this was an ambulatory program. We never said it wasn't." Well, when you're applying, you don't always realize what that means. That having been said, of my 11 rotations for next year, 8 are hospital-based. The only ones that aren't are OMM and my 2 FP rotations. I didn't like having to take time out of my studying to set them all up, but I did it and my grades didn't go down in the meantime. It's nice that I'll be able to know if I can stand living in certain places where I'm thinking of applying for residency in my 3rd year.

The "punishment" for people who don't go to class.... This is lame. I've personally spoken to profs about the pettiness of it all. They seem to think it encourages people to go to class. I think it just creates resentment. It certainly hasn't inspired me to start going to class again. In fact, my grades are better since I stopped going...

When is the flipping cafeteria going to have food in it? They said October, January, and now it's April. So frustrating. They can put a really nice pool table in it, but food seems to be... too difficult. I know it has to do with permits and all that, but they knew about that before they broke ground on the building. Perhaps some foresight would have helped here. Ah well, I'm only on campus for lunch 2 days a week anyway.

Our grades are inflated. Our exams aren't easy, that's for sure. But when most average grades at medical schools are in the high 70's low 80's and our class' average grade is an 87 (according to the registrar), it doesn't mean that it's because we're geniuses and the other med schools suck. Most med schools seem to be out to screw the students on exams and the profs here seem to be out to make ours pretty fair (except in clinical correlates and micro). So it seems, I don't have confirmation on this, as I only know a few people at about 10 other schools.

The faculty. Some of the faculty is awesome. The rest is... mediocre. I don't think a good prof is someone who reads directly off the powerpoint presentation. I can do that on my own in less time. Our path faculty is guilty of this a lot. All in all, the first year faculty is better than the second year faculty. I am still learning a ton this year, but it's not because my teachers are awesome. They use good books. And the books often make more sense than their notes.

The amount of busywork is sometimes... ridiculous. I hate doing presentations. I think my time is better spent studying for exams than making a presentation only the prof is going to be listening to while the rest of the class sits there with their eyes glazed over. While writing SOAP notes is super important and I like the practice I am getting in ICM, the amount of work required for a one hour a week class is... well, frankly, it's stupid.

Glendale isn't the cultural capital of the world. This is no shocker to me. I didn't come to medical school to be cultured. If I want to go to a good non chain restaurant, I'll go home to Tucson (after a year and a half, I haven't had the time or inclinaion to find great restaurants here). I have plenty of time and opportunity to go out to the bars or go clubbing. I don't care about the drive. If I lived in LA or Chicago, the drive would be just as long. And I'm not out looking for my "soul mate" in a bar. I tried that. He's not there. He's probably somewhere doing something equally as nerdy as me right now.

OK. I'm going to go back to studying for micro. This is a very negative e-mail. It fits in very well in this thread asking for negative comments. But do remember that I chose to come to AZCOM over 2 other schools. And I certainly don't regret that choice. Every school has its weak points. But I am confident I'm being very well prepared for my clerkships and residency. Only time and my boards scores will tell

 

[dollarbincommon]

Originally posted by Kadyra

The Deans ignore the fact that we all go to the school we got into or the school in the location we wanted to be. They get extremely defensive when confronted with the fact that we don't have a base hospital for rotations. One I can quote as saying, "You knew when you applied here that this was an ambulatory program. We never said it wasn't." Well, when you're applying, you don't always realize what that means. That having been said, of my 11 rotations for next year, 8 are hospital-based. The only ones that aren't are OMM and my 2 FP rotations. I didn't like having to take time out of my studying to set them all up, but I did it and my grades didn't go down in the meantime. It's nice that I'll be able to know if I can stand living in certain places where I'm thinking of applying for residency in my 3rd year.

What do you mean by "a base hospital for rotations"? What is "ambulatory program"?

 

[LukeWhite]

dollarbin,

We aren't associated with a teaching hospital like most other med schools are. At nearly every other school, you'll do the vast majority of your 3rd (and often 4th) year rotations in the same hospital, along with all your other classmates. You're given a limited number of slots you can fill with away rotations.

AZCOM's program is ambulatory, which essentially (and literally) means that you walk around with whatever doctor you're with. We're a preceptor-based program, so many of your rotations will be you and a doctor; instead of hanging around the clinic and learning from whatever physician is there, you follow "your" doctor around wherever he/she goes.

The disadvantages are as have been mentioned...it's a bit of hassle setting these up sometimes and you have to put in a lot of time to make sure you get good ones. Unlike more traditional programs, there's not as much academic guidance, so a lot of your learning is going to be self-study.

On the dramatic upside, if you set things up right you get FAR more practical experience than at other schools. I will be going into FP in the distant future and am dead-set on obstetrics and underserved medicine. After hearing stories about how many babies 3rd years had the chance to deliver (provided they were motivated to do so and had a good preceptor), I was sold.

Additionally, unlike at most schools, you won't find yourself way down the food chain. In hospital-based programs, you have to compete with the residents, then the interns, then the 4th years, for procedures. If you're the only student with your doctor, though, that's not an issue. You learn HOW to do stuff much more quickly; it's just a bit harder to learn WHY and WHEN you do it.

You're thinking of MSU, right? It's a fantastic school, and the director of admissions gave me a lot of advice after I missed the application deadline and wanted to know what I needed to do to get in the next year. One thing that really struck me, though, was that she took the time to mention other osteopathic schools she thought were great. She spoke glowingly of AZCOM, which was when it first appeared on my radar. When I interviewed at Kirksville, one of the professors told me that if I was really interested in learning to be a full-scope FP, an unopposed residency was the way to go. AZCOM's draw, at least for me, is that it offers you unopposed clinical years. It's not for everyone, but if learning how to really do a lot is your general trajectory, my admittedly inexperienced opinion is that it's the best program of its kind, allopathic or osteopathic, in the nation.

 

[dollarbincommon]

Originally posted by lukealfredwhite
dollarbin,

We aren't associated with a teaching hospital like most other med schools are. At nearly every other school, you'll do the vast majority of your 3rd (and often 4th) year rotations in the same hospital, along with all your other classmates. You're given a limited number of slots you can fill with away rotations.

AZCOM's program is ambulatory, which essentially (and literally) means that you walk around with whatever doctor you're with. We're a preceptor-based program, so many of your rotations will be you and a doctor; instead of hanging around the clinic and learning from whatever physician is there, you follow "your" doctor around wherever he/she goes.

The disadvantages are as have been mentioned...it's a bit of hassle setting these up sometimes and you have to put in a lot of time to make sure you get good ones. Unlike more traditional programs, there's not as much academic guidance, so a lot of your learning is going to be self-study.

On the dramatic upside, if you set things up right you get FAR more practical experience than at other schools. I will be going into FP in the distant future and am dead-set on obstetrics and underserved medicine. After hearing stories about how many babies 3rd years had the chance to deliver (provided they were motivated to do so and had a good preceptor), I was sold.

Additionally, unlike at most schools, you won't find yourself way down the food chain. In hospital-based programs, you have to compete with the residents, then the interns, then the 4th years, for procedures. If you're the only student with your doctor, though, that's not an issue. You learn HOW to do stuff much more quickly; it's just a bit harder to learn WHY and WHEN you do it.

You're thinking of MSU, right? It's a fantastic school, and the director of admissions gave me a lot of advice after I missed the application deadline and wanted to know what I needed to do to get in the next year. One thing that really struck me, though, was that she took the time to mention other osteopathic schools she thought were great. She spoke glowingly of AZCOM, which was when it first appeared on my radar. When I interviewed at Kirksville, one of the professors told me that if I was really interested in learning to be a full-scope FP, an unopposed residency was the way to go. AZCOM's draw, at least for me, is that it offers you unopposed clinical years. It's not for everyone, but if learning how to really do a lot is your general trajectory, my admittedly inexperienced opinion is that it's the best program of its kind, allopathic or osteopathic, in the nation.

Thanks lukealfredwhite

Each day I'm learning more and more about medical schools.

 

[LukeWhite]

But yeah, since someone mentioned it, the cafeteria thing is irritating, less because it's not open yet than because when I interviewed, its "it'll-be-open-by-the-time-you-start-next-year" appeal was used as a selling point for the school, as am sure is happening again for those interviewing now.

I'll add two other negatives: AZCOM is opening a podiatry school, and as far as I know there are far too many slots in podiatry as it is. Schools are all over the place competing for students, and getting in requires little more than a pulse. I could very well be wrong, but opening a podiatry school seems simply like a push for a new revenue source.

And on the topic of money, our CEO makes about $500,000 a year. Admittedly, that's for both campuses, and I understand the need to compensate med school administrators highly since they'd be making a lot in private practice, but $500,000 seems far too high for anyone, let alone our non-physician CEO.

Both of these moves are probably good business sense, but I do think that even private med schools should throw all their resources into the education of the students rather than to expansion and the profit motive. It's to AZCOM's credit that it's a fantastic school in spite of these things (while others, like LECOM, flounder while their founders build marble statues of themselves.) Still, there's room for improvement.

 

[daelroy]

How are 3rd and 4th years graded? Do you have shelf exams after each rotations, or does your preceptor grade you on your performance?

 

[azcomdiddy]

The amount of busy work does bother me. It is ridiculous. Make sure you are an expert with Power Point because you will be using it a lot here. Seriously, 50% of your credits per quarter are consumed with b.s courses. It totally takes away from studying. That's probably one reason why our exams aren't so bad. They know we take so many other b.s. courses that we would fail out if they made our exams difficult. If you are looking to just pass, AZCOM can be a great time. Getting A's is another story. Your guess is as good as mine at this school. Dr. Mann's questions are tricky as hell. You can know the material inside and out but if you are a poor test taker, you will be toast in his class.

 

[kristing]

okay here's some insight from an MS3.

I loved the first 2 years. We have great instruction and caring teachers. We do well on COMLEX because of this. Very well. But most people know that. If you want to do well on the USMLE start studying early and know your biochem and physiology. They are much more heavily emphasized on the USMLE.

As far as rotations go, there are plusses and minuses.

First of all, rotations for 3rd and 4th year are a pain. Why? Because we have to do a lot of legwork ourselves if we want to go out of system and we have to call all of our preceptors the week before to verify that we are ok to start and then if we have a preceptor who is based at a hospital (or a few) we need to go through their medical education departments to get cleared. These are things other students don't have to do in their 3rd year.

With that said, however, you CAN get hospital experience in Phoenix in your 3rd year.

The family med residency at Tempe St lukes is really just like a hospital IM rotation. In addition, you will get hospital experience in cardiology, surgery, and OB, even if you are with a preceptor and don't go out of the area for a "hospital based" rotation. Why? Because these specialties already have hospital work built in. You can also get a lot of hospital experience with an IM hospitalist. (The name says it all).

Why is this such a sticking point? Why does everyone care? Well, some of the major teaching hospitals require you to have hospital based experiences before you can do rotations there your 4th year. Good Sam makes you do 2 in hospital IM rotations regardless of what you want to do there your 4th year. (And you will HAVE to go out of the Phoenix area to fulfill this. Or get it at the beginning of your 4th year at another hospital in town.) St Joe's requires some in hospital training also - 1 rotation in hospital IM and 1 in clinic based IM for an IM rotation. 1 hospital peds and 1 clinic peds for a peds rotation. Same goes for Phoenix Children's hospital. And once again, you will have to go outside of phoenix to get the peds hospital rotations in your 3rd year. (Or again, you can wait until the beginning of your 4th and get them done in town.)

But here's the rub. It seems like a pain to have to go out of town, right? But MOST 3rd year students DON'T HAVE THIS CHOICE! So it seems like a pain, but we have SEVERAL students in our class that have MOVED AWAY to other parts of the country to do rotations.

So Pooh Chong, if you want to go to the NW to do your rotations, you can. You will just have to set them up yourself (Which isn't impossible). And being able to go away has a lot of advantages if you want to move there for residency - your face will be known, and you will be familiar with all of the programs. Doing a rotation at the place you want to do residency at and doing well, as well as getting a letter of rec can pretty much cement your ability to get into that program. So you have 2 years to get yourself known to the programs, and that is a benefit, it sounds like, to you.

I hope this helps your decision.

 

[Chronotropic]

But here's the rub. It seems like a pain to have to go out of town, right? But MOST 3rd year students DON'T HAVE THIS CHOICE! So it seems like a pain, but we have SEVERAL students in our class that have MOVED AWAY to other parts of the country to do rotations.

So do these hospitals have to be in some way affiliated with AZCOM? Or can we pretty much set up rotations anywhere we like?

Oh and I'll be interviewing at AZCOM on March 5th, wish me luck.

 

[kristing]

AZCOM is not affiliated with any hopspital. That's the uniqueness of our school. It's referred to as "ambulatory" based.

You can set up rotations where you like, for the most part. If a preceptor has been used in the past and is in AZ< then you have to go through the clinical ed lottery. If it's someone in AZ who's new, then you can set it up on your own. Same goes for ALL out of state rotations.

If you want to get a lot of hospital based experience in your 3rd year, the trick is to go to the midwest DO hospitals for rotations. They like you, want you, and are happy to have you. Some examples are Doctor's in Columbus, St. Vincent in Toledo, and I know there's a whole boat-load in Michigan.

GOod luck on your interview!

 

[irish79]

I was thinking all medical schools in the United States were "four year med schools." Are there other options?

 

[azcomdiddy]

Originally posted by kristing
AZCOM is not affiliated with any hopspital. That's the uniqueness of our school. It's referred to as "ambulatory" based.

You can set up rotations where you like, for the most part. If a preceptor has been used in the past and is in AZ< then you have to go through the clinical ed lottery. If it's someone in AZ who's new, then you can set it up on your own. Same goes for ALL out of state rotations.

If you want to get a lot of hospital based experience in your 3rd year, the trick is to go to the midwest DO hospitals for rotations. They like you, want you, and are happy to have you. Some examples are Doctor's in Columbus, St. Vincent in Toledo, and I know there's a whole boat-load in Michigan.

GOod luck on your interview!

"Ambulatory based" is code for "we couldn't afford a real teaching hospital." That's what it came down to. Our Downers Grove campus (COM) had a teaching hospital but they sold it. And AZCOM didn't bother investing in one either. You sound like one of our trustees. They too try to spin our lack of a teaching hospital as some benefit.

The lack of a teaching hospital is one of the problems associated with this school. Traveling is not a good thing. It gets expensive and you also waste time setting up your rotations when you could be busy studying. We aren't the only school that lacks a teaching hospital so I'm aware of that. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a pain in the a$$. One of the advantages to attending a state funded osteopathic school like OSUCOM and TexasCOM is that the state helps fund their associated teaching hospital.

I'm not going to Toledo or some small city in the cold Midwest to do rotations when I live in Phoenix. I might as well have gone to a school in the midwest then. That is not an advantage.

We are the only medical school in Phoenix but the reason why our students are forced to doing some of their 3rd year rotations elsewhere is because the University of Arizona school of medicine has a monopoly on the teaching hospitals in Phoenix. Getting to do those crucial third year rotations in Phoenix is difficult to set up. That's why people travel out of state. It's not because people at AZCOM feel their experience is enriched by spending time in Toledo or Tulsa.

Again, if you want accurate advice, speak to me. I'm not the most pleasant person here but I'm honest. I'm not trying to sell the school

 

[LukeWhite]

Well, *I* came here so I could do rotations in those places people seem to like so little.

If we had a teaching hospital, odds are we'd have fewer free rotations, and we certainly wouldn't have a preceptor format. It's entirely possible the current set-up was conceived as a financial as much as a didactic mechanism, but that's irrelevant. Fact is, it allows for flexibility other places don't have, and if we had the advantage of a teaching hospital we'd lose the others.

I suppose it's inevitable people will complain about not being able to stay in Phoenix, and with this sort of program that complaint's going to pop up wherever the school is. There will always be a group of people who chose the school for its location rather than its program. Which is, of course, fine, but there's no sense in acting all shocked and offended as if this were a huge surprise.

If you choose AZCOM for the program, it seems to me you can't help but be pretty happy. If you choose it for the location, I respectfully suggest that there might have been a better tactical move (say, a school that doesn't advertise itself as involving a fair bit of traveling). And if UofA wasn't an option for whatever reason, one might as well be happy with the 2.5 years minimum one does have in Phoenix. Better than nothing!

 

[VentdependenT]

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
"Ambulatory based" is code for "we couldn't afford a real teaching hospital." That's what it came down to. Our Downers Grove campus (COM) had a teaching hospital but they sold it. And AZCOM didn't bother investing in one either. You sound like one of our trustees. They too try to spin our lack of a teaching hospital as some benefit.

The lack of a teaching hospital is one of the problems associated with this school. Traveling is not a good thing. It gets expensive and you also waste time setting up your rotations when you could be busy studying. We aren't the only school that lacks a teaching hospital so I'm aware of that. But it doesn't change the fact that it's a pain in the a$$. One of the advantages to attending a state funded osteopathic school like OSUCOM and TexasCOM is that the state helps fund their associated teaching hospital.

I'm not going to Toledo or some small city in the cold Midwest to do rotations when I live in Phoenix. I might as well have gone to a school in the midwest then. That is not an advantage.

We are the only medical school in Phoenix but the reason why our students are forced to doing some of their 3rd year rotations elsewhere is because the University of Arizona school of medicine has a monopoly on the teaching hospitals in Phoenix. Getting to do those crucial third year rotations in Phoenix is difficult to set up. That's why people travel out of state. It's not because people at AZCOM feel their experience is enriched by spending time in Toledo or Tulsa.

Again, if you want accurate advice, speak to me. I'm not the most pleasant person here but I'm honest. I'm not trying to sell the school

Couldn't have said it better myself. 3rd year leaves much to be desired if one where to stay in phoenix the entire time. I don't want preceptor based IM in an office or preceptor based OBGYN where the "attending" is justifiably more concerned with getting through the day rather than imparting any knowledge on the student. Rural rotations are supposed to be good, but I haven't done any. I must say in retrospect however that when going to large teaching hospitals teaching is just as hit or miss and there is a focus on scut.

When interviewing people may skeptically ask how your 2 months of IM were at "Valley Internal Medicine Clinic." Anyhoots 4th year is fantastic because we can go back home or go wherever the hell we want the entire time. All in all I can say it has been a good experience, but 3rd year was rough. I'll be doing a IM subinternship at Maricopa soon.