AZCOM students any questions for a current medical student

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Either is fine Niki or Nicki (my screen name I typed in wrong, but too late to change now)

All throughout my time at AZCOM I have heard about the Physical Examination part of Step 2 for both the COMLEX and the USMLE. Are class is not affected, because the test will not be impletmented by 2004 but the classes below us will be. Many schools (AZCOM one of them) have this requirement for graduation and I think the move in the future is to make these exams more standardized. I know for the COMLEX, AZCOM will be a testing site and this will save everyone traveling expenses that attend AZCOM. Right now I know our student chapter of the AMA and SOMA for the osteopathic side is really working on getting the test cost down to a more reasonable level. This is what I know for now. I know Dr. Devine of the OMM department on campus has really been a key player in AZCOM becoming a testing site for the exam and probably has a wealth of knowledge on this subject!

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Thanks for the are always a wealth of knowledge.
Originally posted by jhug

I have a question for everyone....i'm taking a refresher anatomy course right now and really feel i'm (re)learning a ton. BUT, i am taking the class to get used to the classroom feel (triplets can make you forget what that is like really fast:D ) and now i find myself TOTALLY slacking on my studying b/c i'd rather be with the kids & my poor wife who i'll probably not see too much over the next few years. I feel like i have the luxury (of not stressing over performance) now, and REALLY won't have that option come august. So, now i'm wondering if i withdraw from the class to avoid a grade i know i'll despise (i'm somewhat of a perfectionist, if i don't do as well as i know i can it drives me nuts!) or just hang in for the ride and TRY to balance the time (i don't want to balance) between class and three adorable little kids. I don't need the class to graduate, i don't need it to get into med school...but i hate starting something i don't finish. What do you think?? i know in the eternal scheme of things this is really NOT important, it is just eating at me right now. Thanks for the advice!

If you were single and had no children I would lean toward taking the course because familiarity is half the batlte in med school (even if you were doing badly, since you're already accepted). But I have a kid, and a spouse, and I have such limited time to see them right now, that I can assure you, what you will gain in that class is not worth the time you will spend away from your family. If you could switch to an audit or to a pass/fail, so that you are just in class soaking up information, that might be an acceptable compromise. Anatomy is the best taught class at the school (even if you are an anatomy ***** like me), so you will be fine next year without your refresher course - not to say you won't struggle necessarily, but the help is there for you to get it from instructors, tutors, and TAs.

My vote is to drop the class!

Good luck in your choice!

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I agree with kristing I think if you audit it or pass/fail that would be one thing and it would help familiarize you with the material. the tough thing about med school is not the individual subjects it is the shear volume that you have to learn. Really enjoy your time now!
you all are so great!!!! please excuse the cheesy-ness but it is really great to know that i'll be with people such as yourselves for the next four years. This has seemed like a big deal until put in the perspective that you all have given me and now i look at it and wonder why i didn't see it this way before. I'll see if i can audit or pass/fail, but even if i can't (it is way past the deadline) i will still attend the class and see if i can still take the test-- just without that stress hanging over my head. THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!
jhug -
you will really like this school. I am happy you decided on AZCOM. It is a great place. I think you already figured that out, but medical school sucks - it's hard - that's why it's so important to find one that fits you, and you;ve found it!

has anyone heard anything (good/bad) about the archstone deer valley apartments? the address is 3010 W YORKSHIRE DR, Phoenix, AZ 85027. According to yahoo maps it is about 4 mi east of the school. I know i'll be there in a few days, i'm just getting excited about all this.

Kel, any news on house in your area (as if you have nothing better to do):D

We are hoping to see most of the spots monday and and then use tuesday to finalize stuff so monday will probably be the better day if you and niki would like to do lunch.
Monday at noon works great for me I will PM you my cell number.

I ran Archstone by my husband. The area is okay and there are a ton of apartments. There are a few calls that police respond to domestice violence, property damage, etc. It is behind a very busy theater, target strip mall. It is semi gated. Check it out and decide for yourselves.

There are a few houses in my neighborhood 91st Ave and Union Hills for sale. It is a nice quite neighborhood and affordable. After luch if you wanted to swing by the neighborhood and see I will be happy to show you it.
Are there any books that you know will be needed for our classes next fall? I know that books change editions and such, but I was just wondering if there were any standards that I could pick up cheap now.
I am not just getting stoked and wanting to "read-up", I just would like to grab a good price or two if I can. Thank you much!

Also, what' s a "good" time of day to visit the campus? I am bringing my fiance' on the 20th or 21st to see the place. Can we go into the buildings and such, or should we check with the student affairs office before?

Thank you!!
Student Services on campus are in charge of scheduling the white coat ceremony. For us we did not know until orientation week. At the beginning of orientation week you get your id, library tour, discuss financial aid, parking sticker, mailbox key and many lectures from clinical faculty and basic science professors. The highlight for me was the panel of students (basic Q and A session). The weekend before we started class we all went out as a class to a restaurant/bar and hung out and got to mingle with the people that we would be attending class with.
jhug -
My husband used to live in apartments near Archstone. It is a busy area with lots of traffic and noise because of the movie theatre/strip mall. I didn't like it very much, but he thought it was alright. One of the girls in my class lived in that area (not at that apartment complex) and she felt unsafe because of multiple car break-ins and hearing gun shots - she moved to a new apartment soon after school started. I looked at the Arizona Republic classifieds for rentals in my area and they are running between 1000-1200 for a 3 bedroom. That is comparable to a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment near school. The area around Archstone is less expensive. Meeting on Monday? Sounds good - email me with details. :)

bla -
I would wait to get the books when you get to campus. A lot of 2nd year students offer to sell their books to 1st years for cheap, or even borrow them. Since our lecture notes are so great you may not want to buy many books at all. You will most likely need an Atlas of Human Anatomy by Netter. The best time to visit campus is during the day... there isn't much activity at night. You don't need to visit student services, but if you have any questions they are the ones to ask!

Yea, after I posted that i realized that that might be the case, which is cool! I was just freaking out at the moment because I realize that i won't be getting any private loans most likely...(me + credit= Hah Hah!) and right then I had it in my mind that "books were gonna break me"...I must have been paying bills at the moment:)
niki, kel, and anyone else who may be interested....
my wife and i are going to arrive in phx at about 9:30am and then we'll see a few apptments in the area. At 11.30am we are meeting up with the on-campus guy to see those. That will put us on campus and done (for the a.m. at least) by about noon. Where is the best place to meet on campus?? I'll be in shorts, t-shirt, and tevas!!!!:clap: :clap:
and we'll only have one of the kidlets-- hopefully we won't be too hard to spot. We are up for pretty much anything, i personally love fudrukers (?spelling). We also appreciate how busy you are and thank you for making the time to get together.
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jhug -

Let's meet in the Student Services office at noon. See you then!
My husband and I will meet you all in the student service building (Barrel is the name of the building). I am 5'4 and my hubbie is 5'10 both brown hair. See you tomorrow.
we look forward to meeting you--- if anyone else is interested and finds themselves in the area tomorrow, please feel free to come!!
Niki and kel-- THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! You two are amazingly wonderful people!!!!!! My wife and i left with the best, reassuring feeling yesterday and we owe a lot of it to you both (and all the people we met on campus) To all that are attending/thinking of attending azcom, you will be hard pressed to find such admirable, friendly, NORMAL people to go to medical school with. The atmosphere of support and just a general kindness is second-to-none!!! I am constantly amazed at how so many look out for one another and motivate and encourage each other in such a productive way. It is a real honor and privilege to be associated with such great people. Thank you!!!!

A few of the many pearls that we came away with (i thought to share with all):

*take school one quarter at a time, don't get caught up in looking ahead as it is very overwhelming and intimidating.
*There may seem like days/nights that you just can't make it/do it will. Just stick to it, you will get through this.
*stay away from malignant students.
*live close to school (mostly if you have family)
*use your resources (other students, student services, preceptor coordinators)

There are many more, these are the ones that come to mind right away-- i'll randomly post more as they come:D

Thank you again for all you did for my wife and i, and for making the time to be with us!!!

While you were in AZ, did you get to check out the apartments across the street from AZCOM? (I think they were called Arrowhead Highlands. I have a friend from Glendale, who says that they are pretty sweet.)
sjs-- highlands is really nice....a lot of fluff, but really nice. What i mean by fluff is it has a SAND beach for the pool, i have no idea how many achres of ponds (that they dye blue!!!!!:D ), and a bunch of fountains. I have a hard time paying a higher rent knowing that some of that is going toward pond dye!! :) For us, the rooms seemed quite small (remember, we are trying to squeeze triplets into an apartment) and the ponds don't have any kind of fence or protection around it (again a HUGE concern for my wife and i w/kids). The administration seems really nice, very attentive and accomodating.
Highlands is nice, and we got on the wait-list for a three bedroom-- but it is third behind 1)on-campus and 2)sierra canyon.
any other questions??
Thnaks for the reply, jhug. Where is Sierra Canyon? Is there a website for it?

I liked on-campus housing, but figured that if my wife and I were going to end up shelling out $750 on a place, it might as well be nice. We don't have much, so we don't need much space.

On another note, I can't wait to get out of here, enjoy my working summer, and get down to business at AZCOM. The paper I have to do for my meteorology class keeps seeming more and more like busy work :).
BTW, does anyone know when Orientation Week is supposed to happen? I called the Admissions offcie, and they said they'd mail us everything we needed to know in July. That's a little late for me, I'd love to know sooner.

Also, anyone know when the end of the first term is? I was thinking mid-Novemebr for some reason. My wife's due date is Nov. 10th, so of course I will hope she can hold out until after finals are over. Thanks.
I think I heard August 27th was the start of orientation--but I could be dreaming.
It was so nice to meet with you last week! It was great meeting your wife and one of the adorable triplets!:D I am so glad you got a lot accomplished on your trip and I look forward to seeing you as well as all your classmates around campus next year! :)
jhug -

It was so nice to meet you and your family. Thanks for the pearls of wisdom - they inspired me! :) Now back to studying...

Hey I wanted all of you to know I am doing surgery this month and I am also out of town in Kingman. So if I do not get back to you right away you know I have not fallen off the edge of the earth. Hope all is well with you all and keep the questions coming!

Orientation is the Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday before school starts. The first term sill end 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. So you will have one week before Thanksgiving off and then the week that has Thanksgiving in it off. At least that's how it's been done the last few years.

Books -

I bought every book for first year (call me anal), so I know a lot about this topic!

Biochem. I could have just looked up what I needed in the library the three times I cracked that book. But the new genetics book they have you buy is realy good, so I would think that one might be a good one to have.

Anatomy - Get a Netter's atlas. Don't borrow one. I highlighted in mine and put tabs on pages. This will be a well-used book. Other books - I bought the text book for Anatomy (Moore and Daily) as well as a Grant's atlas and another atlas I got in a second hand store that had real cadavers in it. I loved these books. They all helped me tremendously. Some people say you only need Netter's, but I am somehat spacially illiterate, so I needed different views to get a grasp on things and these helped so much! I wish I had bought a few more anatomy books.

I liked the Gartner and Hiatt (Hyatt?) histology book and atlas. They pull pictures from the atlas so I would say they are must haves. But again, if you are poor you can always just look at this stuff in the library. I know you can find Wheater's atlas and the Erlandsen and Magnum atlas (Magnen?) books online from or some such cheap book place. E&M is currently out of print and there are several of the atlasses in the library, but you can also generally get somebody's burned CD in class and that may help. I know that the guy who wrote the book sells the CDs - someone from our class found him and then we all gave her money and she ordered the CDs.

The first years had a new Embryology book this year that I can't comment on. I liked the one we had and I read it because I got really confused at times in lecture. It helped. But you have a new embryology teacher who I think is really good at explaining embryology.

Do not buy books for the psych class. They say mandatory on them but they will not help you. Unless of course, you want to buy mine really cheap. ;)

OMM books. I bought them all. You don't need them for OMM. But I like having them around for reference and to look at pictures. There's a blue OMM review book that's a must have for Board study that some people bought their first year by Savarese. It's awesome and I know a lot of people thought it was good for OMM tests.

Phys is a pretty good book. It's by Costanzo and it's good. I have the Board Review Series Phys book by her now for Board Review and I really like it. I think that might have been a better book because it's by the same author but she cuts out all fluff in it. It's all just must-know stuff. But you may be able to look at it in the library. The instructors put a lot of tables and diagrams from the book into their notes.

I don't recall any other books being necessary. first quarter.

Wow that was a really LONG post.
Here's a question I forgot to ask during my interview. How are the electives during the second year? I see that there are a lot listed in the catalog, but I was doubting in my mind that they could actually offer all of those each term. How is the selection of electives? There are several that look really interesting to me. Thanks!
Hey Girl!
It's Erica. It looks like these guys are keeping you busy with questions. I'm glad you are available for questions. I, of course, should be studying for boards right now, but my brain hurts.

For those interested in AZCOM, you may be interested to know that you can "decelerate". Sounds like the short bus, I know, but it's actually nice to have that option. Nichole can attest to the fact that I used to have the worst car in the world- it was so unreliable as to be unsafe. I finally had to start working parttime to make a new car payment, so in the beginning of my second year at AZCOM I decelerated. That means I took half my core classes over each of two years. I'm now in my "Second" Second Year here. Boards loom (I'm taking COMLEX and USMLE), and third year rotations beakon me with their sweetness.

About apartments: anything that says "Arrowhead" in the name will probably be in 'luxury' catagory, gated, with a pool and clubhouse, etc. The whole area around school is being built up right before your eyes. What used to be citrus groves are now Home Depots.

And the rotations situation is interesting, and bearable. You just have to do your homework. We go out of state for lots of our hospital-based rotations. I still have about one third of my third year rotations to set up.

That ski-guy missed the point about being shut out of AZ. We aren't shut out when we are physicians, we are just shut out of some of the metropolitan training. You can get wonderful rural hospital rotations, but the U of A kids have dibs on the Phoenix and Tucson ones, it seems. (Speaking of which, N, how hands-on can we be at Maryvale? I know it is in the worst part of town, but they've got a serious ER, even though the hospital is small. Should I go for it?)

Take care,

Erica, MS II (and three quarters)
So, does this situation with the phoenix area hospitals affect just the "core" rotations, or can we still get into some of the nicer phoenix area hospitals for our elective rotations?? Can we get a good sub-I spot at a place in phoenix in which we would like to end up in residency??
Also, is there a "popular" site that AZCOM students like to go for their hospital rotations out of state?

If anyone has the means, could someone give some examples of schedules used by AZCOM students for their 3rd and 4th year rotations in the past??
Hey Kristing,

Love your info, it's great! I want to know how are you guys being prepared for the COMLEX or USMLE right now? I know that there is some kind of board prep at AZCOM, what do they make you do? I read somewhere you have to memorize First Aid Step 1 for 1 of your review classes or a previous year did. Tell me what this is like?

Also tell me some of the practical skills you learn during years 1 and 2- like did you learn basic suturing in one your classes yet?

"Also, is there a "popular" site that AZCOM students like to go for their hospital rotations out of state?

If anyone has the means, could someone give some examples of schedules used by AZCOM students for their 3rd and 4th year rotations in the past??"

There are popular hospitals we go to, usually because there is free housing and sometimes free meals.

In no particular order:
1. St. Vincent's in Toledo, free housing and meals.
2. Bottsford hospital in Michigan, free housing.
3. Eastmoreland in Portland (?), free housing.
4. St Barnabus in a sketchy NYC neighborhood, free housing.

In state:
Lake Havasu hospital, free housing
Sierra Vista hospital, free housing (acutally, it might be all of $45 for the month of housing)
Kingman hospital, free housing
Tucson hospital, free housing
Prescott VA hospital, free housing

There are more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. If you are interested in a rotation, even if it is one that would be new to AZCOM, (let's say you want to go back home to Cuyahoga Falls, OH for a month), many times they have free housing if you just ask. If they are used to having students, they often have it all set up already.

I am doing at least one rotation in Toledo at St. Vincent's, that's how I know there is a food allowance for the cafeteria there.

Here is what I've set up so far for third year:
-OMM with Dr. Shoup (one of the teachers here)
-Family Med back in Madison, WI
-Psych at the VA in Prescott (free housing)
-Cardio with a doc in town that came highly recommended from my friends doing rotations now.
-Peds in Ohio, either Toledo or a different place with free housing.
-Surgery in town with another friend-recommended doc
-OBGYN I'm still waiting on this is at a womens clinic in a different state (with free housing) that must let that state's med students choose first. They said I am welcome there, I just have to wait after a certain date to apply, and I will probably get in.
My backup OB is a highly recommended doc from one of the Instate places mentioned above (Kingman)
-Rural in Lake Havasu
-Internal Med in Toledo
-Elective in what I want to do my residency in, at the school I want to do my residency in, out of state. No housing. :(
-Fourth year I am doing a rotation abroad

These are all very good rotations, they come highly recommended. When you first hear about setting up rotations, it sounds intimidating and eveyone tells you to relax, but you can't. Now I am setting up my rotations and I see how it is possible to's not so bad. Do not try to construct a written-in-stone schedule, because everybody's schedule changed at least a little. You may switch two of them around, you may get one you really wanted and have to drop one that you wanted. (That happened to me...I really wanted my OM choice, and due to scheduling conflicts I had to give up my local Family Med doc that I wanted. But that was OK, because there are plenty of great Family Med rotations around.)

Or, you can just hit the "lottery" button when you're setting them up and Linda Hammond will fill it for you. You can do Lottery on every single choice, or only one choice if you like, or no choice at all. I didn't want to do lottery for any of them, I wanted rotations that folks had recommended. No matter what anyone says, it's not all done by a certain date. It is flexible, things change. It's OK.

Hmmm...I don't think this post is long enough! ;)

Any more questions?

BTW, the Clinical Ed office is overflowing with brochures from hospitals all around the country that want us to do rotations or residencies there. The most popular sites (like the ones mentioned above) are usually in a bin all of their own, with all the instructions and info you need. And you can also download the info and applications of the most popular hospitals off the Clinical Ed webpage.

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot!! That was a very informative post. :)
I wanted to clarify that Eastmoreland in Portland offers housing for $150 a month - it is a 2 bedroom apartment that you share with 5 other medical students. They have great rotations, from what I hear, but it is a very small community hospital.

We are posting a lot about out of state rotations, but don't discount the local rotations! There are many great sites here in Phoenix. If you have ties to the valley (like a spouse and/or kids) don't think that you have to leave to get the experience you need. I'm doing very few rotations away and I don't feel like I'm getting the short end of the bargain. We have limited hospital based experience in the third year, but you have many more options as a fourth year. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong!)

FA18 -
Regarding the board prep - one of the classes second year, clinical correlates, is designed to be a board prep class. He requires you to read First Aid for the Boards over winter break and he tests you on it about a million times. It is really annoying when he tells you to do it, but you'll love it when it is time to take the boards.

For now, the class of 2007 should be getting excited to come to school, and enjoying the summer. Well, it feel like summer in Phoenix - right now it is about 90 degrees... this is what you have to look forward to!

I just wrote a thesis about board review at AZCOM and it slipped into cyberspace, never to be seen again. grrr.

Yes, we are told to learn the First Aid book, plus the packet of questions sent from NBOME when you register for COMLEX, plus the NMS Review for USMLE Step 1 book for Dr. LoVecchio's quizzes and exams. We pretty much feel it is a bit random, but it's OK. Remember, our second year classes are all board-centered in a way, so we can get his questions correct because the Path or Pharm or Micro is still fresh in our minds. (or we get the questions right because it is a topic we covered in Topics in Medicine, Clinical Correlates, or Introduction to Clinical Medicine). It's easy to get stumped on the questions from Biochem and Physiology from first year, imho. Also, anatomy is fresh in our minds because we are still in OMM class.

Some people take commerical review classes as well. Recently people have taken Kaplan and Northwestern...they both come to our lecture hall. There are about 50 people in Kaplan, I think. I don't know about Northwestern.

As far as clinical skills go, we're doing splinting and surgical scrub now. We've done triggerpoint injections, IM, subQ, and subdermal injections. We've done blood draws and you can start IV's with the ER club. We did pelvic and breast exams, prostate and hernia checks in our first year.
Thanks, board prep sounds great, and AZCOM seems like they really prepare the student.

Tell me more about the ER Club, what other kinds of things do you learn there and what else do you do? Is it a popular club, friendly or hard to join? thanks
Tell me more about the ER Club, what other kinds of things do you learn there and what else do you do? Is it a popular club, friendly or hard to join? thanks

The ER club is a nominal fee, something like $20 the first year and $5 each year after that. Plus, I've received the club T-shirt each year, that's a bargain.
Anyone can join.
We've done ride-alongs with the fire department, ride-alongs with Air-Evac, disaster triage practice, IV nights, lots of other things. Both the presidents from this year and last year have given the club a very Wilderness-medicine type feel, which is really cool. We have had speakers that do wilderness medicine bring wonderful picture presentations. It's a very laid-back club.

It's by far been the biggest bang for the buck club I've joined.

Usually there is a whole week in which the clubs set up tables in the lobby so you can see what you want to join. That usually happens in the 2nd or 3rd week of class in September. (If I've got the time frame wrong, maybe the other AZCOM students will chime in.)

Hope this helps.

Do you have models that you practice intubation on, chest tube placements, access to EM computer simulations too?
Do you have models that you practice intubation on, chest tube placements, access to EM computer simulations too?

Let me just start off by saying I will not be going in to ER, so from your detailed questions it sounds like you probably have ER questions that I cannot answer. :)

We are all taking ACLS right now (Advanced Cardiac Life Support), it's a two-day class. On the second day we split into groups of four or five and we run a full code. (The ER staff changes the monitor so we have to respond accordingly) One person calls the code, one person intubates, one person does the paddles, one person is the recorder, then we switch so we've done each position. So we intubated on models at that time. Also, when a Peds doc came in earlier this year we could practice intubating a Peds model.
Just a little to add to a previous post:

Unless things have changed, Kingman used to give free meals housing was approx. $40/mo (I did several rotations there)

St. Barnabas is in the Bronx, housing was $25/mo. You were issued meal coupons and you were capped at a certain price to get free meals.

Will add a nice little hospital in upstate NY: Wilson Memorial Regional Hospital, Johnson City, NY. Housing: free, meal coupons issued. They were thinking about doing away with that though. Good luck.:cool: :cool: :cool:

ted, DO
Emergency Medicine, PGY-1
somewhere in the city
tedsadoc--- how are things in NY???
everytime i see your name on here i get all excited to see what you have to say:D so did you enjoy kingman? Take care of yourself!!
Are we able to do rotations in Chicago--or are they pretty much reserved for CCOM (and other Chi-schools)? It would be nice to live with the fam if I need to while doing a rotation.
So when you do these rotations in Kingman or other places where housing is provided, do you need to share rooms with anyone? Are there other housing options, like staying with a local family, if you don't want to share rooms or if housing is not offered by the hospital? And typically, how much will housing cost if you have to pay yourself? I am concerned because I don't like sharing (anything).
Sorry I didn't answer about the Board prep stuff, but it looks as though others have answered for me (Thanks Kelley and Erica!).

I have to admit I am probably the person who studies the least for boards in the class. I am in Kaplan and I am counting that as a lot of study time. I only just this week feel like I have time to actually crack a book for Board prep. Others have been doing it all year. Those people amaze me.

I bought First Aid last year and tried really hard to get into this summer, but it was just too overwhelming. So I sort of flipped flipped flipped a few pages and then put it down. I really haven't looked at it since. I've done fine in the class we are supposed to read it in without reading it, because, like Erica sais, you have been prepped from the beginning to know the material, so you can usually dig it out of some recess of your mind for the exam.

We will see how I do on Boards. I think I will pass, I just wonder by how much.

I just wanted to give another response, so that if you are a "I'm too overwhelmed to study, I need to relax" sort of person like me, you have another view point.


PS Kelley will rock boards. She has studied all year, and knows her stuff!
:cool: :cool: :cool: Hey jhug!!!

How's the family? The threesome must be growing faster than the thermometer can climb in Phoenix during the summer.

Kingman was a great experience for me. I loved all of my rotations there (cardiology, OB, FP) Surgery there was a great experience except that I was going through my own family tragedies at the time and I never felt that the surgeon understood what I was going through. He did teach me a lot though. It's been a great year for me so far and we actually already have our PGY2 schedules ready. Another AZCOM'er is joining us as a PGY1 next year, this is awesome.

To respond to the other posts:

The apartment the school had for us (not sure if it is the same one) but it is no more than 3-5 minutes by car to the hospital and 10 to the offices of your preceptors (that is unless you do OB with Dr. Tedesco. His office is in the Cerbat Building right next to the hospital.). The apartment has one bedroom that had a double bed, a bathrooom, kitchen, livingroom, another bedroom that has a set of twin "beds" and that room had a walk in closet and its own bathroom. There is a balcony and it has some appliances (microwave, tv, etc). The living room had a reclining sofa (that was known as "ted's perch" as I spent many a night reading on that sofa) I do not know how much accommodations there cost if you decide to go on your own. I know that before we got the apartment, the class before us used to have use of one of the FP's homes but I don't think he takes students anymore though you can ask the clinical coordinator.

As for Chicago, it is mainly for the Chi students, though I believe you can do a few there, if there is room.

Good luck to all. There is a light at the end of most tunnels and they don't always belong to an oncoming train.

ted, D.O.
Emergency Medicine PGY-1
somewhere in the city

I was wondering if you could eleaborate on your experiences in your rotaions in Kingman? Like, what "your" duties/responsibilities were, how was your average day-to-day, did you get to participate in surgeries, deliveries, etc??

Also, how is the hospital over there? I was wondering because I am interested in Kingman, as my parents now live in Bullhead City
Hi Chuck,

Since I was part of the second class to do rotations in Kingman, there weren't exactly written out rules (not sure if that exists now, perhaps some of the current students can elaborate) for what I should do, but I can tell you what I did. The first day and a half I observed, asked a lot of questions on how things were done in the office setting (I asked the MA's, the NP's, the office managers as well as the preceptors). By the end of the second day, I would ask to be allowed to at least start the patients' care: obtaining a history, reviewing their meds and regime since the last visit and any labs, xrays, etc then do a physical. I filled in the chart up to that point (I should comment that I was completely comfortable with documenting since I was a nurse in my former life:D ). I would then wait for the preceptor and I would present the case to him. He would go in, and check all that was done, then we would discuss what should go into the assessment and the plan. After a few days, I was seeing them and writing their initial assessments and plans as well. The preceptor and I reviewed these things together and this is where the teaching took place.

For cardiology, I would come in to the hospital at 6:30 or 7 am (depending on the census), round on the inpatients, write notes, review labs, and get an idea how the patients were doing from the nurses. My preceptor would join me somewhere around 7:30 and I would present the patients to him and I would get more teaching here. He would go to the clinic at 8:30 or 9 am as I completed notes and then I would join him in the clinic and work with the out patients. If cardiolyte stress tests were done that day, he would go over them with me (what was infarcted/ischemic tissue, which was healthy etc) and we might do one last set of rounds in the hospital and he would sign the notes. He wrote the orders, as no one will accept orders from a third year med student but part of the teaching included him asking (before he wrote the orders) what would I order for this MI patient, CHF patient, unstable angina patient, etc?

I had the opportunity to observe the interventional cardiologists on his team inserting pacemakers, do catheterizations, etc. Case presentations were expected every Friday on some prearranged cardiology topic.

OB, yes, I definitely delivered my share of babies with the doc in the room, but you are the one guiding the little one out. The day starts earlier on O.R. days when they do gyn surgery (6 am or earlier to round on patients and write notes) then the surgeries start at 7:30. There's at least 30 mins for lunch in the cafeteria then off to the clinic. You will do call (there is a call room that you can use that has a shower, tv, comfortable bed, chair, and clock radio. (Remember there were no residents when I did rotations, hopefully with the renovations they were doing on the hospital they added on call rooms), you have a pager, so if you tell the nurses you are going to rest remember to leave your number with them so you can do your delivery. FP with the doc that did high risk OB gave me even more deliveries the following month.

Surgery as I mentioned before was the only rotation where I didn't get out as much as I should have because of personal circumstances. He did let me do a few procedures but I understand that the other students (particularly the male students) were able to do a bit more (I was only the second student to rotate with this particular preceptor). There are 2 surgeons that precept in Kingman and their styles are very different.

Not sure if all this verbiage helped, I hope so. But remember, things are bound to vary by the time you get to third year but this should give you an idea of what's going on.

P.S. As I mentioned, the hospital was being renovated while I was a third year. They increased the number of beds. Not sure what else they added. Also, you'll be glad to know that AZCOM does have rotations in Bullhead City!

For clarification on anything above that wasn't clear (I was on call with ortho last night and I haven't slept yet) send me a PM and I'll elaborate.

ted, D.O.
Emergency Medicine, PGY-1
somewhere in the city:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Thanks out to Tedsadoc, Erica and Kristin for keeping things going while I did Surgery in Kingman!

Erica, You will get to do a ton in mAryvale. I delivered 15 babies on my own (with Doctor in the room) and assisted on C-sections, did all the morning rounds and presented to him seven in the morning. Assisted in hysts, D and C, did all the paps and Ob checks. Basically worked my tail end off!

I have been in Kingman this month and will be up there next month for FP with OB. I love the hopsital even if there is not a lot going on in the town. I will have been there for 3 months and two of the three I had to share a room, but this month one of my great friends from AZCOM is coming to do ER and we will share a room (we will be the only ones who have to share a room). At Kingman you pre-round for your doctors, report to them, do deliveries (babies:) for OB/GYN , first assist in surgery, ton of H and P and progress notes, lectures to attend (some you do presentations (no big deal)). It is a teaching hospital with an internship program and resident in FP, dermatology and ER. Some rotations you work with interns and residents. In surgery you do not so you get to be first assist which is AWESOME:clap:. Meals are covered and housing is forty-five dollars a month. Oh and the a gym membership is included :D right by the hospital. I enjoy the flexibility of the program in Kingman and feel very prepared to rotate at MAYO, Maine medical Center, Colorado College of Health Sciences and Michigan next year.

Keep the questions coming and thanks again everyone for helping me out with all the questions. Good luck with finals and boards!!!!!!!!!:)
The program in Kingman sounds like a great deal! Is it particularly hard to get to do your rotation there (surg, OB, FP+OB) with the large class size of AZCOM??

How is the hospital up there with the renovations that tedsadoc2002 spoke of? Are they done yet?
The program in Kingman sounds like a great deal! Is it particularly hard to get to do your rotation there (surg, OB, FP+OB) with the large class size of AZCOM??

How is the hospital up there with the renovations that tedsadoc2002 spoke of? Are they done yet?
Renovations are done the hospital is great!!!

I found it very easy to get all the rotations I wanted there. There are so many slots available out of town and in the Phoenix metropolitian area. Even if you do not get at first I kept asking evey month about cancelations and finally got to do surgery there and it was worth it!

Happy Easter!!!!!!!!!:)