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Baby Miller vs Mikhail & Morgan

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by drlee, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. drlee

    drlee Senior Member
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    I'm almost done reading Baby Miller the first time through. Should I read it again and master it or should I just go straight to Mikhail & Morgan? I'm a CA-1 resident and would like to do well on the in-service next year after having done so-so my first time around.
     
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  3. UTSouthwestern

    UTSouthwestern 1K Member
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    Go on to M&M.
     
  4. ThinkFast007

    ThinkFast007 Senior Member
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    Yo what's the deal w/ M&M ???

    I'm just a M4 doign my gas rotations. ON my first gas rotation i read through a couple of the med student books for anesth. But instead of reading baby miller i went directly to M&M. The book is dense!

    friggin putting me to sleep. well maybe its teh beginning 3 chapters. I think i will be awake once i start reading about pharmacology. but yo that anesthesia machine section and OR section are sooooooooooooooooooooooo friggin dry. I hope this book becomes a little mroe entertaining :laugh:
     
  5. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Dude,

    if you know most of Baby Miller's stuff,

    you'll pass the ABA written with style.
     
  6. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Ditto.

    M&M is more in depth and you will need to read it and know it b/4 you finish but Baby Miller will get you through boards (written). You should be able to finish it in a short amount of time the 2nd go around. Then off to the real stuff.


    Thinkfast: Those chapters are booooooring in all the books.
     
  7. MAC10

    MAC10 A Pimp Named Slickback
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  8. MAC10

    MAC10 A Pimp Named Slickback
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    Honestly i probably wouldnt try to read M&M as an MS4 or intern its just gonna frustrate most people. On the other hand try to memorize baby miller. Thats all you need for now. Once you get into the OR reading M&M is a whole lot easier. Everything will start to make sense and it will stick. Especially the machine chapter, very important.
     
  9. adleyinga

    adleyinga Einstein
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    I disagree with Jet on this one

    For a CA-1 they need to read something with more depth than baby Miller. If you memorize every table and every diagram in baby miller than you can pass the test but there will be very little understanding and comprehension.

    Reading a larger text will let one understand stuff and then can go back to Miller for review.

    Jet- Is baby Miller the only text you read during your residency?
     
  10. CambieMD

    CambieMD cambiemd
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    I read the first 16 or so chapters in M&M before I started my residency. That book saved me. I had a basic understanding of what was going in my first month. I had Baby Miller and sold it. I think that M&M is a lot easier to read than Baby Miller.

    We can debate which book is better but the bottom line is that you should find a source that you are comfortable with and read it to death. Start reading now.

    I felt very awkward in the OR my first two months. I am sure that it showed.
    I could barely start a case but I knew the mac of this and the metabolism of that. Again, just read something.


    CambieMD
     
  11. davvid2700

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    Listen to me! I think jets advice is solid. His approach to patient care is excellent; however he took the written exam and passed 9 years ago. I took the exam july of 2004 and passed and orals in april of 05 and passed. so i have a more recent recollection of how things go.

    Throw away baby miller. Its garbage. Im serious. The critical care medicine portion is ok because it explains Aa gradients, A/a ratio and the alveolar gas equation pretty good but the rest is lacking. I dont know why people buy it. You wont pass the ABA written exam by memorizing it. However if you have Mikail and morgan and read it from cover to cover and memorize it (truly) you will pass it with ease. I had the one with the red cover went through that one had to throw it away because it was coming apart. Then I got the new edition when It came out (with the green cover), that cover is falling off it too. SO i gotta get another one.. DUDE You have no idea how much detail is required to pass that written exam. The questions are written by psychologists/ anesthesiologists. The detail is insane. I remember knowing every single thing there was to know about nitroprusside toxicity and still got the question wrong. Look up nitroprusside (toxicity of) in baby miller see what you get.. Its a pretty big key word to know
     
  12. adleyinga

    adleyinga Einstein
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    . The questions are written by psychologists/ anesthesiologists. The detail is insane. I remember knowing every single thing there was to know about nitroprusside toxicity and still got the question wrong. Look up nitroprusside (toxicity of) in baby miller see what you get.. Its a pretty big key word to know[/QUOTE]

    Actually Glenn Gravlee who is head of question section is not a psychologist but he is very bright and into minutiae.
    yes the questions are not straight forward and baby miller won't cut it at I said above.
    And I sure hope that you are training for a career in anesthesia- reading a medical scool text is completely inadequate.
    It;s like reading cliff notes for book reports
     
  13. nitecap

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    Why not just be a man and grab big Miller when you need to study a certain aspect. Its all there, cant go wrong. Use M &M just to breeze through, shot my anesthesia class notes are more better than M & M, not that I dislike it but just think its brief as all heck.

    Compare big miller to M & M on nearly any topic, even minus all the rat studeis the Miller includes Miller is way more thorough and complete. M & M seems elementary I guess after reading big miiler the last 6 months. Just my 50 cents.
     
  14. davvid2700

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    Hey go back to allnurses to spout that "be a man" bull****. youre a nurse. dont give studying advice in a physicians forum. get the ******* out.
     
  15. CambieMD

    CambieMD cambiemd
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    That's unnecessarily and offensive.

    CambieMD
     
  16. nitecap

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    Cambie you cant expect anything less from ole Dave. His insecurity shines brighter everyday. Pretty funny seeing a "professional" act as he does. Would hate to see his beside manner when and if he sees his patients postop on the floor. Rather unpleasant Id guess. I think what insecure dave needs is a woman. Maybe a little poontang would brighten his day.
     
  17. davvid2700

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    say what you want about me nitie but how can you tell a physician to "be a man" and read big miller like "you" You didnt even take day one in medical school!! You prolly didnt even take "the hard chemistry" in college. " The one with the 5 hour lab per week" for 2 years in a row. DID you study non stop for one exam after the other for 4 years in medical school. Each one covering like 900 pages worth of notes? Each exam more anxiety provoking than the next with nobody giving a **** whether you pass or fail. NO. You didnt!! I think whomever you were referring to "to be a man" and read big miller experienced and successfully went through what I referred to above so I think they know "just a tad" more than you do in what to study and how to do it. SO step off your horse, honestly. I am a good guy but you dont have the credentials to be talking "smack"
     
  18. davvid2700

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    and by the way you are wrong. Im happy to report. M and M is the way to go. during residency. Its one stop shopping. and has just enough detail to keep you happy. sometimes too much detail.

    I would definitely encourage buying the following books and referring to them often during residency in addition to reading the above. Like when you need to refer to cases like pheochromocytoma, anterior mediastinal mass, goiters, etc.
    1) Coexisting diseases
    2) Pharm and Phys
    3) an ob text (pick one) I have schnyder but chestnut is good
    4)barash clinical anesthesia
    5) yao and artusio (later on) maybe beginning of ca 3 year
    6) board stiff how to survive the anesthesia orals
    7)buy aba questions from the asa.. there are 4-5 past written exams available for sale to review for the written
    8) TAKE MICHAEL HO'S ESSENTIAL BOARD REVIEW BEFORE THE ORALS... Thats if you wanna pass..
     
  19. rn29306

    rn29306 Drugs are bad, m'kay?
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    OMG
     
  20. nitecap

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    abra cadabra.
     
  21. davvid2700

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    You didnt answer my question? how can you give studying advice to physicians? DID you experience the things I alluded to in my previous post? dont you think you are being a bit presumptuous? out of place? and big miller is not one stop shopping its 2 stop shopping since its 2 volumes and its so friggin hard to wade through. I used barash for my big reference but m and m pretty much constantly. just to repetitively read someting over and over. and my residency was poor on academics but we did cases like crazy. I didnt have much didactics, just m/m conference and your occasional lecture nothing structured but i got through it and passed my boards "beotch". You have no idea what our writtens are like or how they are structured so "dont" friggin give advice to the residents on here about how to study or how to pass the exam. thanks you.. now go back to nursesare the best.com
     
  22. Noyac

    Noyac ASA Member
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    Well HOLY CRAP, you must be a doctor in disguise. YOu mix it up with the residents and are self proclaimed as equal. Well then why don't you take the ABA written and orals? Oh, I forgot your a nurse. So like Dave said your study and reading advice doesn't mean crap here. You can read BIG Miller all you want but your grasp will be limited at best without you even knowing how limited it is.

    PS: Barash is the bomb. You (not you Nite) can actually read it after spending all day in the OR (Nite, I'll bet you get those nurse hours in crna school also don't you?) without falling asleep.
     
  23. nitecap

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    No Doc in disquise here, not that cool. Actually considered the Med School route when taking post grad classes and preparing to apply to CRNA school. here was my reason not to.

    CRNA school 2.8 years total cost = 90k
    starting salary = 125-130k / 8-10 years experience in rural area = 200k plus
    Graduate at 28 yrs old

    MD 4 years plus residency what 3-4 years
    Cost not sure exact but 200k at least Id assume just through the first 4yrs.
    Graduate closer to 35 yrs old
    Starting salaries vary 150ish for IM, FP maybe , MDA 250 plus ect ect.

    Plus I really was interested in anesthesia, so I can goto school for 2.8yrs, graduate young as hell, and make the same salary that many MD's do now (not including anesthesiologists and the other speacialties) while doing something I really enjoy and feel passionate about. Hey 130k at age 28, not bad, took my Dad 55 years to make that much. So it was a given for me, didnt consider the other route long.

    SO I enter CRNA school and Joe Blow enters med school heres how we pan out the first decade.

    I grad CRNA school 2.8yrs start at 130k.
    SO by the time hes done with med school (4yrs) I have earned 156k him none

    He does 3year anesthesia residency plus 1 year ct fellowship making about 150k maybe during that time and finishes.
    During his residency and fellowship I make 560k with a small raise.

    SO total by the time he is done residency he made 150-160k
    me 716k.

    He starts at 220first year, 240 the next then at 260 the third and 11th year since we started comparing earnings.

    SO after the first 11 years since entering medschool joe made 870k
    I went rural after 7 years at 185K/yr

    SO 11 years since we started comparing:

    Joes MDA = 870k-200k(school)= 600k

    Me= 1.45mil - 90k(school) = 1.36mil


    Another decade passes and with joe making 285k/yr and me still 185k

    Joes=3.45 million
    me =3.21million

    So 20 years after Joe MD entered Medschool he has finally earned more than the CRNA that he despises. Not to metion the CRNA is 48 yrs old and he 55 years old.
     
  24. adleyinga

    adleyinga Einstein
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    Peter Sebel wrote an abstract for ASA about 10 years ago claiming that if CRNA saved properly for retirement then at the end of it all they are ahead of MD due to cost of Med school and compound interest.

    So if you are in this for money then CRNA is much better path
     
  25. davvid2700

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    you took the inferior easier route whilst most of the people on this board toook the superior, harder route and busted their ass and suffered a lot . and have tons of volumes of knowledge over you. So while i appreciate the way you made your decision and how easy life is for you and congratulate you on how happy you are just understand that you did take the inferior route and you dont get to come on here and "tell the residents on this board how to study. Go to your ******* i n g nursing forum and tell them study tactics and how to "be a man" pissant because you are nothing but slime to me.

    oh and bby the way.. you are lazy for not taking the harder route just like those people in NO.
     
  26. nitecap

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    i DONT TAKE MY WHISKEY TO EXTREME
     
  27. nitecap

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    quit looking up my posts damit.
     
  28. davvid2700

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    Hey toughlife can you please respond to this nimrod.. Im too freakin worn out by this arsehole


    Hey nitecap why do you come on here as a nurse telling us how much smarter and wiser you are for choosing the route that you chose? and were supposed to welcome you with open arms.. You are lucky i dont work with crnas because if I did i wouldnt let any of them do anything except sit down and monitor the patient. No central lines nothing No spinals, no epidurals. Not as long as I am the attending physician. and other attending physicians should follow suit. and trust me Im young enough (im only a few years older than you) to get involved and pour my heart and soul into this and effect legislation you pissant.
     
  29. nitecap

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    Dude do you even do cases. You seem to be on this here forum all day at all different times. Either Your MD only group must be slow these days or you are surfing the net in the OR. You are fun to screw with though Dave, you are not as good a shiznit talker as some of the elder MD's here. Its easy to get the best of you and when you come back at me its sounds inmature at best. Why are you getting toughlife involved, at least fight your own battles p u s s yyyy. And by the way, not sure how long you have been active on this forum but I have been a reader for 1 plus years and a poster for maybe 6-7 months and really dont recall seeing you here much besides the last few months, so go to hell man.
     
  30. nitecap

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    Damn your "worn out", Im just getting started. Its never good practice to admitt defeat Dave, as you just did. Thanks. Where is your stamina man, you talk like you are machine or something. Dont quit now I just drank some coffee.
     
  31. davvid2700

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    why do you come one here? answer that? are you a student doctor? or a anesthesia resident? go freakin hang with your cohorts in the nursing forum because you are not welcome in here if you ask me..
     
  32. nitecap

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    Mike Jones, Mike Jones
     
  33. davvid2700

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    and another thing nitecap

    just some advice.. you may be able to talk down what we do on here but I wouldnt go around telling anesthesia residents how to study and tell them how you will be way ahead of them etc.. probably not going to help your career out much not to mention you wont win over any friends and more than likely the only thing you will be doing are eyeballs. My guess is you are still pretty green and you need a lot of teaching and the only people who can provide you this are the physicians.. That is probably why you come one here so much you pissant
     
  34. bullard

    bullard Senior Member
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    Anybody else ever get the feeling davvid and nitecap is the same guy with multiple personalities? :p
     
  35. nitecap

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    Its ashamed you guys have to try to use cheap tactics to stop SRNA from cruching your ego. Should have done this a long time ago.
     
  36. nitecap

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    LOL
     
  37. davvid2700

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    I understand this is a public forum and you have a right to be here but i dont understand why you would hang around a student doctor site when you are a nurse. What do you have in common with med students and residents and attendings? Most everyone here have the exact same backround. we have gone through the same exact stuff just different times and locations. you have a completely different backround and path. not only that you mock what we have been through. I just dont understand your motive? WHy wouldnt you wanna talk and hang around people who are going through the same things that you are going through?
     
  38. nitecap

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    Oh No Whats That Fuss, Every Body Move To The Back Of The Bus, We The Type Of People Make The Club Get Crunk
     
  39. davvid2700

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    There you go talking s h i t again.
    "someone bitch slap this nurse", and send him over to im a nurse.com with his panties where he belongs.. The
     
  40. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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    He is a loser.
     
    #39 toughlife, Dec 2, 2005
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2008
  41. nitecap

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    Im In Love With A Stripper, She Poppin She Rolling Shes Rolling
     
  42. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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    look dude, you are seriously making yourself look ignorant by making comments like the above. All you are achieving with your attitude is buying yourself more enemies. Listen to JPP's advice and keep it real.

    Think of it like the president and the vice-president. The VP knows how to run the country, can do the same things and be like the boss but is never the boss himself.
     
  43. nitecap

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    Back Then Hoes Didnt Want Me, Now Im Hot They All On Me
     
  44. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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    The vicepresident and the president hang out together, drink together, party together but when it comes down to it, the VP is not the P.
     
  45. nitecap

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    I dont know though, Cheney makes more calls than you think and has quite a bit a responsibility.

    Im a Bush guy and all but not sure the whole P and VP comparision is good here. Think Cheney may be brighter.
     
  46. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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    but you get the drift.
     
  47. nitecap

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    yes
     
  48. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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  49. nitecap

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    laid back,with my mind on my money and my money on my mind
     
  50. toughlife

    toughlife Resident
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  51. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    No. But it was my focus.

    And my focus wasnt self-intuitive...it was advice from senior residents... a couple that I'll keep anonymous, who were right...and very successful now.

    I also had the BIG Miller and the other two-volume text that Tinker was a big contributor to....forgot its title-name...

    but point is...

    there is a finite amount of material a resident has to master in order to pass the boards.

    And your quest is to find the text that can present you with the required information in a compact, easy-to-read fashion, since time is a commodity when you are a resident.

    No, Baby Miller doesnt have ALL of anesthesia compacted into it's text.

    But what it DOES accomplish is covering nearly ALL board material in a compact, easy to read text. And thats your goal as a resident. Learn as much as you can in the least amount of time invested.

    The only other text I used for board review was (Faust? maybe?)...a soft cover, 8.5" X 11" soft cover book that had concise explanations to our profession's data.

    The BIG books are too big to use for board preparation IMHO...are good for expounding on subjects you need clarification for.
     

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