Bachelors degree or PHD?

[ChemistWiz]

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Hello, I was looking things up and found that at Purdue (a school im seriously consider) they have a PharmD/PHD program that lats 6 years. With a 2 year pre- pharmacy requirement thats 8 years which is the same as getting a bachelors and getting a PharmD. Hoping I don't wish to change my plans and I get into everything just fine, what would be the smarter choice? I mean whats so great about a PHD in something besides being able to be a professor and do research? Will I be more competitive with the PHD/PharmD than the bachelors/PharmD? OR is the competitiveness limited to what i want to do and what my PHD is in?
thanks for the advice

 

[pearljam5a1]

Hello, I was looking things up and found that at Purdue (a school im seriously consider) they have a PharmD/PHD program that lats 6 years. With a 2 year pre- pharmacy requirement thats 8 years which is the same as getting a bachelors and getting a PharmD. Hoping I don't wish to change my plans and I get into everything just fine, what would be the smarter choice? I mean whats so great about a PHD in something besides being able to be a professor and do research? Will I be more competitive with the PHD/PharmD than the bachelors/PharmD? OR is the competitiveness limited to what i want to do and what my PHD is in?
thanks for the advice

I'm not aware of any program that lets you get a PhD without having a Bachelor's first. I know at my school the PharmD/PhD students are required to have a Bachelor's degree.

PhD/PharmD is more geared toward research or academia. You are still a pharmacist and are able to practice as such but why would you if you spent that extra time on a PhD?

A PharmD is for practicing as a pharmacist. You can still have options open for research and academia but not as much as a PhD. The CEO here at St. Jude Research Hospital is a PharmD sans PhD.

 

[ChemistWiz]

actually Purdue offers a program where u do pre-pharm for 2 years then 2 years of Pharmacy school and then apply to the graduate program. I believe its only Purdue however. Anyway my concerns are: In a PHD program i do research so if if im being paid to do research will that pay for pharmacy school partially as well? Also will i get paid better with a PHD/PharmD? Is it overall a smart move for someone considering research or maybe clinical pharmacy?

 

[pearljam5a1]

actually Purdue offers a program where u do pre-pharm for 2 years then 2 years of Pharmacy school and then apply to the graduate program. I believe its only Purdue however. Anyway my concerns are: In a PHD program i do research so if if im being paid to do research will that pay for pharmacy school partially as well? Also will i get paid better with a PHD/PharmD? Is it overall a smart move for someone considering research or maybe clinical pharmacy?

You are paid to go to school when you are working on a PhD... that means no tuition and you get $$ to learn. 👍

Smart for research, but not for clinical. You would be better off just getting a PharmD and doing a residency for a year or two if you were more interested in the clinical aspect.

 

[ChemistWiz]

Well im undecided between research and clinical but I think both would be appealing to me. However, if I did choose Clinical over research is it a smart idea to get a bachelor's to fall back on? Also why is it that clinical gets paid less than retail?

 

[Monalyce]

The money you "earn" working on a PhD can be used towards tuition for the PharmD, but the PharmD will cost you the same.
Before you commit to any sort of PharmD/PhD program, I'd do some more research about the profession of pharmacy. It's great that you are interested in pharmacy and clinical and research are both great areas to go into, but a PharmD/PhD is a very specific way to go and probably not a good idea to work towards blindly.

 

[ChemistWiz]

im sorry i wasn't specific I mean i looked up the stuff and it said that it depends what my PHD is in i guess it comes down to if i like research ideally if i do Ill do that and I know that for a fact but if i dont like it then ill probably do clinical or hospital pharmacy because I like pharmacy a lot but the I want to kind of feel mentally challenged and I feel that retail is kind of boring and not a lot of mental work. So how would i know if i like research?

 

[pearljam5a1]

Well im undecided between research and clinical but I think both would be appealing to me. However, if I did choose Clinical over research is it a smart idea to get a bachelor's to fall back on? Also why is it that clinical gets paid less than retail?

My recommendation is to work on your prereqs and apply to pharmacy school after around 2 years (depending on how long it takes you). If you don't get accepted then keep working on your BS/BA. If you do get accepted then I wouldn't worry about finishing your Bachelor's.

As to why clinical pharmacists get paid less:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=702130

 

[pearljam5a1]

So how would i know if i like research?

Plenty of opportunities in a 4-year undergrad to find this out. You just need to become a research assistant to a professor.

 

[ChemistWiz]

thank you 🙂 But yes i am aware of those undergraduate research programs. I was thinking of possibly maybe hope college for undergrad then U of M for pharmacy but Purdue is better for PharmD/PHD programs so i dont exactly know what to do. How much do industry/ research pharmacists make a year on average?

 

[MrMeowphers]

Make SURE you do actual research (I'm not talking about those hand-holding jokes of a lab course that are mandatory for all science students to do). E-mail professors in the university (after reading their research interests) and see if they'll let you work in their laboratory for a good 1.5-2 years. It's important to find a laboratory in which you have scientific interests in, also, make sure the guy isn't a jerk (this will sour your experience).

Laboratory research and PhD training is drastically different then any other sort of professional school training (e.g. MD, PharmD, DDS, DO, etc...).

Whereas professional schools are filled with classes and exams (similar format as to undergraduate classes, except much more in-depth and difficult); a PhD track is all about independent research. No one gives a hoot if you got straight A's in your graduate classes, it all comes down to how good are you at conducting independent research projects (how many positive and negative controls did you do? are you sure you analyzed and interpreted your results correctly? enjoy writing primary research articles? do you like reading over 100+ primary articles just to write your thesis prior to your Qualifying exams to actually STAY in graduate school? how good are you at taking MANY days of just bad results, botched experiments, bad juju affecting your results? do you want to repeat your experiments multiple times to make sure your results aren't some sort of anomaly caused by user error?). It's mind numbing, but very worth it because you're looking at stuff that no one has even thought of yet!

If you want to be a trained professional Pharmacist; then do a PharmD track. The PharmD program has AMPLE opportunities to do research during the summer months in labs (Purdue for one is a high powered research institute). If you want to continue in research, then do some research after you finish the PharmD program as your "residency."

Do not take dual-degree programs lightly believing that at the end of the day you'll hold two degrees easily. There is a reason why only a handful of students in Medical and Pharmacy programs are accepted for the dual-degree programs (I'm talking 5 students MAX out of 100-150 students); it takes extreme dedication, sacrifice of time, and diligence.

Good luck👍

 

[MrMeowphers]

thank you 🙂 But yes i am aware of those undergraduate research programs. I was thinking of possibly maybe hope college for undergrad then U of M for pharmacy but Purdue is better for PharmD/PHD programs so i dont exactly know what to do. How much do industry/ research pharmacists make a year on average?

Just to respond to this:

Research scientists in a biological/biochemical field can make between 75K to 250K depending on how long you've been doing research.

A PhD in biotechnology/pharmaceutical companies will garner the 75K out of school; as you work your way up to become a Senior Scientists level III (meaning you run and plan the direction of the lab) then you'll make the 150K++ salaries.

Do not think you'll get into a PhD program without adequate research experience prior hand though.

The average age of students entering pharmacy school is ~21/22; the average age of students entering medical school is 23; the average age of students entering a PhD track is 27.

I've done the PhD/PharmD/MD application process and can tell you that each program is looking for different characteristics.

PharmD and MD programs like good GPAs, good PCAT/MCAT scores, abundance in volunteering would be great, actual shadowing or work in a pharmacy or clinic is usually a must; basically a well rounded student!

Usually half of the application for any PhD program (4 out of 8 pages for schools like USC, Stanford, Michigan State, Florida, etc.) are all about research experience and publication history. You might have a near perfect GPA, and a great GRE score, but if you have 0 research experience or any idea of the type of specific research interests that you have, you'll be lucky to get an interview.

So what am I stressing again?

DO RESEARCH IF YOU ARE EVEN THINKING ABOUT A CAREER IN IT.

 

[ChemistWiz]

Well actually I as planning on that, I mean ideally I want to go to UM for pharmacy but if i don't get accepted Purdue is my next choice, and i know i can do research there and if I don't like it ill just do clinical. But I was also thinking doing Hope college because they have great research than U of M pharmacy school, but yeah i can do research wit ha pharmD correct? How would one go about doing that?