PharmD or Nursing?

[PharmD or nursing]

Accepted to a BS Nursing program starting next January, I also want to apply for PharmD starting next September, Western University of Health Science international PharmD is my only choice.

Any advice?

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[BC_89]

From your past posts, it doesn't sound like you want to apply for a PharmD starting next year, but rather try to prepare to go to medical school. On top of this, you have researched schools shutting down and have recognized the supply vs demand not playing favoritism to new graduates (with you being a nontraditional student yourself).

That said, with your history in chemistry and degrees outside the U.S., it would be drastically difficult to even try to give any advice on choosing nursing vs pharmacy and which would suit your personality and tolerances (one is nothing like the other). Do you like being on your feet well beyond any 8 hour work day trying to deal with multiple patients in a stress fast paced environment, or do you like dealing with third party insurances with little tech help and hour cut-backs (majority of pharmacy being retail setting)? I would just look at the best and worst case scenarios for each one and then imagine doing those tasks for the next 20+ years.

If your end-sight in nursing (after putting in your time) is to be a nurse practitioner, then I would at least consider that route. If age is not a factor for you and your desire is set to medical school, then do that. No matter your decision, you will have to cough up more money to pursue a career change so in the end, in the next 4-8 years, do you want to be a 45 - 50 year old physician, nurse, or pharmacist?

Whatever your first thought is, do that.

 

[PharmD or nursing]

From your past posts, it doesn't sound like you want to apply for a PharmD starting next year, but rather try to prepare to go to medical school. On top of this, you have researched schools shutting down and have recognized the supply vs demand not playing favoritism to new graduates (with you being a nontraditional student yourself).

That said, with your history in chemistry and degrees outside the U.S., it would be drastically difficult to even try to give any advice on choosing nursing vs pharmacy and which would suit your personality and tolerances (one is nothing like the other). Do you like being on your feet well beyond any 8 hour work day trying to deal with multiple patients in a stress fast paced environment, or do you like dealing with third party insurances with little tech help and hour cut-backs (majority of pharmacy being retail setting)? I would just look at the best and worst case scenarios for each one and then imagine doing those tasks for the next 20+ years.

If your end-sight in nursing (after putting in your time) is to be a nurse practitioner, then I would at least consider that route. If age is not a factor for you and your desire is set to medical school, then do that. No matter your decision, you will have to cough up more money to pursue a career change so in the end, in the next 4-8 years, do you want to be a 45 - 50 year old physician, nurse, or pharmacist?

Whatever your first thought is, do that.

Thank you very much for reply. You did research my background. I appreciate.

I will getting old no matter what. I can be a 45-50 year old chemist, or 45-50 year old health related professional. It is not easy to change.

 

[VA77]

Well considering you can always get into pharmacy school then this becomes a rhetorical question.

 

[PharmD or nursing]

Well considering you can always get into pharmacy school then this becomes a rhetorical question.

I am thinking about Nursing, wondering if everyone can always get into nursing school as well? how about nursing job market in the future if is it so easy to get in?

 

[VA77]

I am thinking about Nursing, wondering if everyone can always get into nursing school as well? how about nursing job market in the future if is it so easy to get in?

Nursing is the best ROI and you can go on to be CRNA, NP, etc. Where I'm at it is harder to get into the nursing program as opposed to pharmacy. At least nursing requires an admittance exam where I'm at and all the regional pharmacy schools eliminated the PCAT.

 

[RN2RPh]

I graduated from both BSN & PharmD programs and here is my 2 cents:
1/ Education BSN vs PharmD
* Didactics: PharmD is more demanding. However some of my classmates said it is not as hard as their senior year in college (Biochem/Chem major)
* Clinical: RN is way harder. Sometimes half of your clinical groups fail (which lead to only ~ 50% of your cohort graduate on time)

2/ Career:
*Bedside RN vs retail RPh: I was pharmacy manager for a national chain and yes it was rough BUT is was nothing compared to a bad day as a RN. Think about it: poop, pee, all kind of body fluids that you have to deal with as a bedside RN
* NP: there is a big competition between NP vs PA. MD seems to prefer PA to NP (cuz NP wants to be independent). There is a saying about NP: "working as a doctor but get paid as a nurse"

*Jobs: good RN jobs are just as hard to get as good RPh jobs

 

[Dred Pirate]

pharmacy
pro's - higher pay (see caveats below), if you get a good hospital job, relatively low stress, less blood, poop, and urine to deal with.
con's - saturated, cost a lot more money and years to get a degree. Retail sucks for most people, and 70% of new grads end up there.

nursing
pro's - there has been a shortage of nurses since nursing was developed. Travel RN pay is redonculous. Can always go NP (although likely to be saturated soon), can get a degree in 2-4 years
con's - you deal with a whole lot of crap (literally and figuratively) lower pay

 

[Dred Pirate]

Nursing is the best ROI and you can go on to be CRNA, NP, etc. Where I'm at it is harder to get into the nursing program as opposed to pharmacy. At least nursing requires an admittance exam where I'm at and all the regional pharmacy schools eliminated the PCAT.

they seriously have elimited the pcat? I am not a huge fan of standardized tests (even thou I scored in the 99% percentile) but you have to have something

 

[VA77]

they seriously have elimited the pcat? I am not a huge fan of standardized tests (even thou I scored in the 99% percentile) but you have to have something

Alot of schools have made done away with PCAT. I surprised they haven't lobbied NABP to stop the NAPLEX and just license automatically at graduation. Greed at its finest. Schools are just pillmiils.

 

[RN2RPh]

People usually refer "nursing shortage" as a positive aspect of nursing career. However, if you dive a little bit deeper, it may not be a positive thing. Do they have a hard time filling good RN jobs? Absolutely not. So where is the shortage and why? Well just like retail pharmacy, most of the nursing shortage is in bedside nursing jobs. However, unlike retail pharmacy that you can staff every position with a new grad RPh, you can not staff the majority of your nursing unit with new grad RN. Those nursing units will fill their schedule with travel RN (instead of hiring new grad RN). That is why you see RN job posting everywhere and agency nursing is always in high demand. What most people dont see is that new grad RN also have a hard time getting a job. And so, just like most new grad RPh end up in retail, most new grad RN end up in bedside nursing. Those places are constantly understaffed, and have high turnover rate. Either you survive, get a better nursing job or quit nursing. Yes, BSN costs less than PharmD, but RN get paid less than RPh, and I have never seen any entry level RN job with 50k bonus

 

[PharmD or nursing]

I graduated from both BSN & PharmD programs and here is my 2 cents:
1/ Education BSN vs PharmD
* Didactics: PharmD is more demanding. However some of my classmates said it is not as hard as their senior year in college (Biochem/Chem major)
* Clinical: RN is way harder. Sometimes half of your clinical groups fail (which lead to only ~ 50% of your cohort graduate on time)

2/ Career:
*Bedside RN vs retail RPh: I was pharmacy manager for a national chain and yes it was rough BUT is was nothing compared to a bad day as a RN. Think about it: poop, pee, all kind of body fluids that you have to deal with as a bedside RN
* NP: there is a big competition between NP vs PA. MD seems to prefer PA to NP (cuz NP wants to be independent). There is a saying about NP: "working as a doctor but get paid as a nurse"

*Jobs: good RN jobs are just as hard to get as good RPh jobs

Thank you for your reply.
So you recommend Pharmacy more than RN.
This makes me more hesitate which one to choose......

 

[RN2RPh]

Thank you for your reply.
So you recommend Pharmacy more than RN.
This makes me more hesitate which one to choose......

No, I did not try to persuade you to choose either. I just want to provide you some perspectives from someone who has been working as both a RN and a RPh. You have to choose which career path is the best fit for your situation.
By the way, I didn't choose PharmD over RN. I did choose PharmD over NP (I got accepted to NP program also) because I didn't want to do the doctor's jobs and get paid as a nurse. However, I have many NP friends ( as well as RPh friends) who are happy with their careers.

 

[PharmD or nursing]

No, I did not try to persuade you to choose either. I just want to provide you some perspectives from someone who has been working as both a RN and a RPh. You have to choose which career path is the best fit for your situation.
By the way, I didn't choose PharmD over RN. I did choose PharmD over NP (I got accepted to NP program also) because I didn't want to do the doctor's jobs and get paid as a nurse. However, I have many NP friends ( as well as RPh friends) who are happy with their careers.

Thanks.
I want a career I can do for the next 20 years, with a job security. It's hard to choose. I personally like pharmacy more than RN. But it seems so hard for new grad pharmd to land a job, maybe same for RN too.

 

[RN2RPh]

Thanks.
I want a career I can do for the next 20 years, with a job security. It's hard to choose. I personally like pharmacy more than RN. But it seems so hard for new grad pharmd to land a job, maybe same for RN too.

Well, as a licensed healthcare provider, as long as you have your license, you can always get a job. It is hard for new grad to get a good job. It is not hard for new grad to get a job.

 

[radio frequency]

I definitely would not pick the PharmD, but I’m not certain I’d pick nursing either. The downside to working as a nurse is working with other nurses. Truly.

 

[RN2RPh]

I definitely would not pick the PharmD, but I’m not certain I’d pick nursing either. The downside to working as a nurse is working with other nurses. Truly.

I am not sure where you get that notion from. When I worked as a RN in a 49 beds nursing unit, I didn't have any issue with my fellows RN or CNA. Of courses there are always great co-workers and not so great ones. RN are just as professional as any other healthcare occupations.

 

[radio frequency]

I am not sure where you get that notion from. When I worked as a RN in a 49 beds nursing unit, I didn't have any issue with my fellows RN or CNA. Of courses there are always great co-workers and not so great ones. RN are just as professional as any other healthcare occupations.

The oft quoted “nurses eat their young” didn’t come from nowhere, unfortunately. A few of the top Google results will quickly explain.

“Nurses Eat Their Young”: A Novel Bullying Educational Program for Student Nurses

Bullying is a known and ongoing problem against nurses. Interventions are needed to prepare nursing students to prevent and mitigate the bullying they will experience in their nursing practice. The purpose of this article is to describe the development ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Why Nurses Eat Their Young and How to Stop This Damaging Practice

This article will address bullying initiation and its devastating effects on nurses and offer solutions to stop this damaging practice.

www.aapacn.org

 

[RN2RPh]

The oft quoted “nurses eat their young” didn’t come from nowhere, unfortunately. A few of the top Google results will quickly explain.

“Nurses Eat Their Young”: A Novel Bullying Educational Program for Student Nurses

Bullying is a known and ongoing problem against nurses. Interventions are needed to prepare nursing students to prevent and mitigate the bullying they will experience in their nursing practice. The purpose of this article is to describe the development ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Why Nurses Eat Their Young and How to Stop This Damaging Practice

This article will address bullying initiation and its devastating effects on nurses and offer solutions to stop this damaging practice.

www.aapacn.org

Unfortunately those harassing behaviors can happen to all professions at any workplace. Nursing gets the spotlight probably because they are usually the biggest group at any organization. When I was a new grad RPh, there were a few techs who were trying to "eat me alive" when I floated to their stores. However, if you know your place and your power, you can easily set them straight.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I would choose computer programming instead. Very easy to land and switch jobs, high pay, relatively little schooling, and extremely cushy work environment compared to healthcare.

Pharmacy is probably the worst since you will likely graduate with $200k+ in loans and have a hard time finding a job. Even if you do find a job, it will likely be in retail hell and pay less than what nurses are getting right now let alone computer programmers.

 

[radio frequency]

Unfortunately those harassing behaviors can happen to all professions at any workplace. Nursing gets the spotlight probably because they are usually the biggest group at any organization. When I was a new grad RPh, there were a few techs who were trying to "eat me alive" when I floated to their stores. However, if you know your place and your power, you can easily set them straight.

Sure, these behaviors definitely can occur elsewhere, but they are quite notable and noticeable in nursing. Having worked with nurses, it does not surprise me at all. Many are wonderful, and much depends on your organization. But the rotten ones will certainly have you looking to leave the profession quickly.

 

[Ganon]

What most people dont see is that new grad RN also have a hard time getting a job.

Are you currently a practicing nurse?
This hasn't been the case since the pandemic started. At all.

Employers are DESPERATE and paying insane money. I get job offers for nursing when I'm in hospitals for unrelated activities.

 

[RN2RPh]

Are you currently a practicing nurse?
This hasn't been the case since the pandemic started. At all.

Employers are DESPERATE and paying insane money. I get job offers for nursing when I'm in hospitals for unrelated activities.

True, it is probably much easier for a new grad RN to get a job during the pandemic. However, why employers are desperate? Why no seasoned nurse want those jobs? Unless you are also desperate, be careful when taking a job that no one wants.
I dont know what do you mean by saying "insane money". Do they offer those RN a 6-figure salary with 50k sign on bonus like they are doing for RPh now?

I am only practicing nursing at home now. At work, I hide inside my closed-door pharmacy

 

[Ganon]

True, it is probably much easier for a new grad RN to get a job during the pandemic. However, why employers are desperate? Why no seasoned nurse want those jobs? Unless you are also desperate, be careful when taking a job that no one wants.
I dont know what do you mean by saying "insane money". Do they offer those RN a 6-figure salary with 50k sign on bonus like they are doing for RPh now?

I am only practicing nursing at home now. At work, I hide inside my closed-door pharmacy

Actually yes, my coworkers and I are easily clearing 6 figures now.

I will say that I don’t personally work as many hours due to being a 4th year MD student.

Why are employers desperate? Have you been living under a rock?! There is a global pandemic, and a huge chunk of the nursing workforce fled hospital care. That drove demand up wildly!

Your assumption that only bad jobs are left is completely unfounded speculation. Walk into a hospital and ask them the kind of money they are offering these days if you don’t believe me.

 

[RN2RPh]

Actually yes, my coworkers and I are easily clearing 6 figures now.

I will say that I don’t personally work as many hours due to being a 4th year MD student.

Why are employers desperate? Have you been living under a rock?! There is a global pandemic, and a huge chunk of the nursing workforce fled hospital care. That drove demand up wildly!

Your assumption that only bad jobs are left is completely unfounded speculation. Walk into a hospital and ask them the kind of money they are offering these days if you don’t believe me.

Again you just affirm my point. Why a huge chunk of nurses left the workforce (even with hefty pay)? It is simply because it is not worth it. When someone quit their job because it is not worth it then those jobs are probably not "good jobs". Jobs with hefty pay dont always mean good jobs.
Good luck with your residency interviews. Hope that you get matched to one of your top choices.

 

[PharmtoCS]

There is no true shortage of licensed nurses or pharmacists. There is a shortage of healthcare professionals willing to work during a global pandemic in unsafe conditions while taking abuse from patients as administration looks the other way only until money plays a factor, with the only reward being a pizza party and others clapping their hands for you.

 

[Tom Applewood]

Nursing. Avoid pharmacy right now. You can literally do nursing anywhere, everywhere, and they are always hiring, and you will always be in demand. No, your starting RN roles won't make you as much as a PharmD, but you can actively work your way up through levels of nursing degrees and certifications to earn a ton, and take on non-traditional roles and have lots of remote options as well as traditional patient-facing roles.
Pharmacy is in a terrible state right now, and in general it rollercoasters too often.

 

[Ganon]

There is no true shortage of licensed nurses or pharmacists. There is a shortage of healthcare professionals willing to work during a global pandemic in unsafe conditions while taking abuse from patients as administration looks the other way only until money plays a factor, with the only reward being a pizza party and others clapping their hands for you.

There is a massive shortage of bedside nurses that is projected to expand rapidly as more retire or leave the profession.

The unsafe conditions/pizza party/Criminal cases for medication errors are only going to add to it.