Bad interview experience?

[DScully]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Long time reader...but this is my first time to post (a long post, just to warn you).

So I am currently applying / interviewing for a wide range of programs for residency. Most of them are fairly benign and seem to just want to get to know me as a person. Some would ask challenging questions but none of them are unreasonable. However, I had 2 really bad interviews and I am not sure what to make of it...

The first one is at a pretty decent program (Southeast, strong in cardiac and region for those who are interested in knowing which program I am referring to). The PD asked me what I think about the relationship between anesthesiologists and surgeons, and if there is anything I can do to improve the relationship. So I gave the PD my answer. She proceeded by saying - "do you think it is because of how your own program is structured?" I said, "no, I don't think my comment is specific for my own medical school" and went on to "defend" my medical school.

The second one is at a so-so program (fairly new, nothing special about the program). The PD initially asked me what I think I can do to improve my medical school experience. I gave her my answer (e.g. provide housing or improving the quality of lectures) but basically my answer was related to my first 2 years of experience. Then PD asked again, "what about your clinical year?" I said, "it would be nice if we could have mentors who are not evaluating us during each rotation so that we can feel free to ask questions." And at this point, I was thinking, "WTF?! Why do I have to defend my own medical school AGAIN??"

Then she finally said, "well, in your MSPE, there is a constant theme of "improving throughout the rotation", why do you think that is?"

Let me just give you a little bit of my background. My medical school is not top 3 but it is at least top 20. During my third year, I only got PASS on Medicine, Family Med, and Ob/Gyn. Everything else is Honor. My final rank is at 50-75th percentile. So I'd like to think that my MSPE is at least decent. The "improving theme" that she referred to was only 2 LINES in my FM and Ob/Gyn.

And the truth be told, I hated FM and Ob/Gyn. Nothing personal...I just didn't like those rotations and it took me a while to figure out what I was supposed to do during the rotation. So I told her that "sometimes it took me a while to figure out what my responsibilities are or what the objective of the clerkship is, and that's why I think it'd be helpful if there were mentors for each rotation."

Now I am really mad. I don't understand why this particular PD would specifically pick out those 2 lines. What made it worse was that she was not being straightforward. She asked me initially what I could do to improve my medical school experience while all she really wanted to know was my response to those 2 lines in my whole MSPE!! 😡

The rest of these 2 interviews were good, but I just don't know what to make of the interview experience. Nothing I can do at this point, I know. And to be honest, I am thinking about not ranking this second so-so program...not sure if this is a reasonable move, but since it was the PD that I HATED, then perhaps I shouldn't rank them? Any suggestions?

Or perhaps I really suck....which could be another possibility and the reason I wasn't asked this specific question during my previous interviews (I have been going to 15+ interviews) was because other people were too nice...?

 

[Prof Moriarty]

Any chance these questions were designed to make you feel a little uncomfortable to see how you reacted? Or to see how you deal with criticism? What do you think the interviewer's intent was: constructive, accusatory, confrontational, challenging, obscure?

Every place has its "problems", including top 20 med schools. Perhaps the interviewer was just probing you to see how you dealt with these situations. Another possibility: maybe the interviewer was inviting you to dump on your program? If you did, it might be a red flag. Important to stay positive/keep it constructive, right? Or maybe they got rejected from your school when they applied 20 years ago and they're still made about it!😀

It's hard to know their intent. It could be one of those things above, or it could be the PD's personality. What do you think it was? Will you rank these programs low b/c of this interaction?

 

[aredoubleyou]

Im guessing that they were asking these things to get you to sweat a little, maybe...oir maybe you got too used to the friendly get-to-know-you interviews that are common when applying to anesthesiology residency. Either way, not to be critical, but more as advice, you are going to need to seriously grow thicker skin to get through residency - there is constant unwarranted criticism that you just have to suck up and let go.

 

[DScully]

For my first bad interview, I don't really know what the intentions were...I get the sense that the PD is a very *straightforward* person. In other words, this person will say whatever is on his / her mind without thinking it twice. So the comment might just have been his / her way of selling the program to me (since they claim to have a "wonderful" relationship between anesthesiologists and surgeons"). I think I will still rank this program because everything else seems solid.

For my second bad interview, the PD was mean and the intention was obscure (at least that's how I felt...I don't know how to phrase it to sound more polite). If the PD really believes that these 2 lines in my MSPE are a major red flag, then please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DO NOT invite me to an interview!! I honestly don't know if I am going to rank this program....and that's why I want to see how you guys think.

Should I not rank any program just because of a bad interview experience with the PD? 😕

PS. I guess I just think that in general, if you don't think I could potentially be a good fit for the program or if I am not competitive enough or if you don't like my picture on the application, then please don't bother to send an invitation. I know why some programs would try to gauge how you react under pressure or why they somehow think this approach is productive. However, I highly doubt that such information will help them make a more informed decision.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

For my first bad interview, I don't really know what the intentions were...I get the sense that the PD is a very *straightforward* person. In other words, this person will say whatever is on his / her mind without thinking it twice. So the comment might just have been his / her way of selling the program to me (since they claim to have a "wonderful" relationship between anesthesiologists and surgeons"). I think I will still rank this program because everything else seems solid.

For my second bad interview, the PD was mean and the intention was obscure (at least that's how I felt...I don't know how to phrase it to sound more polite). If the PD really believes that these 2 lines in my MSPE are a major red flag, then please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DO NOT invite me to an interview!! I honestly don't know if I am going to rank this program....and that's why I want to see how you guys think.

Should I not rank any program just because of a bad interview experience with the PD? 😕

PS. I guess I just think that in general, if you don't think I could potentially be a good fit for the program or if I am not competitive enough or if you don't like my picture on the application, then please don't bother to send an invitation. I know why some programs would try to gauge how you react under pressure or why they somehow think this approach is productive. However, I highly doubt that such information will help them make a more informed decision.

How competitive if your application overall, and how many interviews do you have? If you feel pretty competent that you'll match, it's OK not to rank this program. If you're not a super strong candidate, though, I would think pretty seriously before not putting a program on your list. Not to say that even then there aren't cases where you shouldn't rank a spot, but it sounds like the only think you have against this program is that it's "so-so" and that the PD wasn't the friendliest. How do the residents feel about her? If she creates a malignant environment, then that's pretty bad. If she's just not super nice, that's something that probably beats having to scramble.

And I'm with the other posters that maybe you're overreacting a little to these interviews. I don't think anybody's intention was to insult your school, and I'm kind of puzzled why you would be so sensitive about it since you said you go to a highly ranked school.

 

[DScully]

Dude, are you serious? If you sweat these things, your days in anesthesiology are going to be long and painful.

In other words, I assume that you are trying to tell me that I should not take this bad experience seriously and still rank the program...?

Could I have done better with my FM and Ob/Gyn rotation? Yes.
Could I have done better in my whole third year or 4yr of medical school? Of course.

I can always improve and I am more than willing to modify whatever is wrong to make it right and will certainly do so during not only residency but hopefully for the rest of my life. True and helpful advices are hard to come by and I appreciate all what you guys have to say. I think this statement is especially true during residency and I'll strive to be less sensitive and more receptive to constructive criticism.


I guess I have a different point of view for interview...I guess if the consensus for the discussion is that I should let it go, then I should still rank the program...Or perhaps I should just start treating my interview as a part of my residency.....

 

[DScully]

How competitive if your application overall, and how many interviews do you have? If you feel pretty competent that you'll match, it's OK not to rank this program. If you're not a super strong candidate, though, I would think pretty seriously before not putting a program on your list. Not to say that even then there aren't cases where you shouldn't rank a spot, but it sounds like the only think you have against this program is that it's "so-so" and that the PD wasn't the friendliest. How do the residents feel about her? If she creates a malignant environment, then that's pretty bad. If she's just not super nice, that's something that probably beats having to scramble.

And I'm with the other posters that maybe you're overreacting a little to these interviews. I don't think anybody's intention was to insult your school, and I'm kind of puzzled why you would be so sensitive about it since you said you go to a highly ranked school.

I hope that it was not her intention to insult my school and I sincerely wish that she was at least trying to give me feedback, instead of hating me.

I guess my concern is that if I end up there, knowing how "unfriendly" she can be towards me on a day to day basis, then I am a little bit worried. I agree residency is whatever you make of it, to a certain extent. However, in this case, it will just have to be an uphill battle...(since obviously her first impressions of me weren't that great).

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. I'll try to be less sensitive in the future.

 

[coprolalia]

I guess I have a different point of view for interview...I guess if the consensus for the discussion is that I should let it go, then I should still rank the program...Or perhaps I should just start treating my interview as a part of my residency.....

You are being WAY too sensitive. Dream is right. Grow a thicker skin. You will be constantly scrutinized during residency. Even if you're one of those dudes who thinks he can fly under the radar. Everyone gets picked apart by everyone else... and I strongly advise you that you'd better figure out who the "power players" (both co-residents and faculty) are early on and act accordingly around them. If you're even a little bit controversial (like I was), might as well paint a target on your back.

-copro

 

[DScully]

You are being WAY too sensitive. Dream is right. Grow a thicker skin. You will be constantly scrutinized during residency. Even if you're one of those dudes who thinks he can fly under the radar. Everyone gets picked apart by everyone else... and I strongly advise you that you'd better figure out who the "power players" (both co-residents and faculty) are early on and act accordingly around them. If you're even a little bit controversial (like I was), might as well paint a target on your back.

-copro

Wow...this is something that I haven't thought before! Hm...very good to know.

Could you elaborate what you mean by the "power players"? People who have a say into what you do? Or people who just gossip a lot?

It is interesting that now you mention this, I remember one of the CA2s told me that once you start residency, do not complaint for whatever reason. Guess I'll have to keep my mouth shut and seriously, just suck it up.

 

[DScully]

People that 1. are quick to voice opinions and 2. whose opinions others are quick to follow.

Good to know...thanks for the advice!

 

[SleepIsGood]

DSCULLY

i'm assuming you are from a top 20 US MEDICAL SCHOOL.

Dude, you will be fine. Just apply far and wide. Good scores and what seems liek honors in almost everythign except two is AWESOME.


Be confident.

 

[jennyboo]

They probably invited you because you at least met or exceeded their minimum requirement for someone they think could be one of their residents.

Now what they want to see during the interview is that you can smile even when they make you sweat.

 

[DScully]

Thanks for all the replies...I do appreciate all the advice and suggestions.

Will continue to work on how to respond positively and calmly under stressful situations. I think I'll still have a lot to learn in residency!

 

[ultm8frisbee]

If you where offended by those questions you are gonna have a long four years my friend...

 

[2win]

Long time reader...but this is my first time to post (a long post, just to warn you).

So I am currently applying / interviewing for a wide range of programs for residency. Most of them are fairly benign and seem to just want to get to know me as a person. Some would ask challenging questions but none of them are unreasonable. However, I had 2 really bad interviews and I am not sure what to make of it...

The first one is at a pretty decent program (Southeast, strong in cardiac and region for those who are interested in knowing which program I am referring to). The PD asked me what I think about the relationship between anesthesiologists and surgeons, and if there is anything I can do to improve the relationship. So I gave the PD my answer. She proceeded by saying - "do you think it is because of how your own program is structured?" I said, "no, I don't think my comment is specific for my own medical school" and went on to "defend" my medical school.

The second one is at a so-so program (fairly new, nothing special about the program). The PD initially asked me what I think I can do to improve my medical school experience. I gave her my answer (e.g. provide housing or improving the quality of lectures) but basically my answer was related to my first 2 years of experience. Then PD asked again, "what about your clinical year?" I said, "it would be nice if we could have mentors who are not evaluating us during each rotation so that we can feel free to ask questions." And at this point, I was thinking, "WTF?! Why do I have to defend my own medical school AGAIN??"

Then she finally said, "well, in your MSPE, there is a constant theme of "improving throughout the rotation", why do you think that is?"

Let me just give you a little bit of my background. My medical school is not top 3 but it is at least top 20. During my third year, I only got PASS on Medicine, Family Med, and Ob/Gyn. Everything else is Honor. My final rank is at 50-75th percentile. So I'd like to think that my MSPE is at least decent. The "improving theme" that she referred to was only 2 LINES in my FM and Ob/Gyn.

And the truth be told, I hated FM and Ob/Gyn. Nothing personal...I just didn't like those rotations and it took me a while to figure out what I was supposed to do during the rotation. So I told her that "sometimes it took me a while to figure out what my responsibilities are or what the objective of the clerkship is, and that's why I think it'd be helpful if there were mentors for each rotation."

Now I am really mad. I don't understand why this particular PD would specifically pick out those 2 lines. What made it worse was that she was not being straightforward. She asked me initially what I could do to improve my medical school experience while all she really wanted to know was my response to those 2 lines in my whole MSPE!! 😡

The rest of these 2 interviews were good, but I just don't know what to make of the interview experience. Nothing I can do at this point, I know. And to be honest, I am thinking about not ranking this second so-so program...not sure if this is a reasonable move, but since it was the PD that I HATED, then perhaps I shouldn't rank them? Any suggestions?

Or perhaps I really suck....which could be another possibility and the reason I wasn't asked this specific question during my previous interviews (I have been going to 15+ interviews) was because other people were too nice...?

Hey dude - YOU DON'T SUCK!!!
It's easy like that - you look for a job (fellowship, residency) - you play at your best and they play their violin. The theory that they will check your level of stress and how you cope with it is BS. The rule says that when you invite somebody in your house you play nice...You look at that candidate as a possible member of your team - share the best and worst with him(her). There is no reason to make him feel bad or to be rude. There was an interest in your application - because they called you for an interview.
Finally - imagine them on the toilet seat (not an original idea) and see that they are the same like you...
If the PD wasn't what you want - just forget about them. Hey Jedy - you'll find your master!

 

[DScully]

Hey dude - YOU DON'T SUCK!!!
It's easy like that - you look for a job (fellowship, residency) - you play at your best and they play their violin. The theory that they will check your level of stress and how you cope with it is BS. The rule says that when you invite somebody in your house you play nice...You look at that candidate as a possible member of your team - share the best and worst with him(her). There is no reason to make him feel bad or to be rude. There was an interest in your application - because they called you for an interview.
Finally - imagine them on the toilet seat (not an original idea) and see that they are the same like you...

I think what you suggested works for me. Will for sure keep that in mind.

Here is what I think (getting on my soap box now)...

Residency is tough. I need to be tougher and stronger. I need to be able to voice my opinions confidently and assertively. More importantly, I need to be able to take criticism and constantly improve myself. Another CA3 once told me that in order to succeed in residency, you need to have short term memory. In other words, don't get frustrated with your previous mistake. Focus on next task. I wholeheartedly agree with his statement (and hopefully I'll be someone like that). I don't know if I will succeed but I can promise all of you that I will try.

On the other hand, I was under the impression that interview is indeed like inviting someone to your house. I put on my best behavior and so do you (here "you" refers to the PD or the interviewer). During the process, we try to be as honest as possible so that each party can make an informed decision; nevertheless, my goal is to convince you that I am the best candidate in the past 100 yrs and your goal is to tell me your program is the best in the whole world. At least that was what I thought....

However, perhaps I am too naive. Perhaps interview is considered a part of residency. If this is the case, then obviously, my previous perception of interview definitely should change.

Anyway, it is very nice to hear what you guys think. 🙂 I will definitely take your candid advice throughout my residency training (provided there is a program that is willing to take me)...

 

[Narcotized]

.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Scully,
Agree with above posters. I bet if you asked the interviewers how the interview went, they would have a much different answer than yours. It is common recently for PDs to ask a few probing questions that might make you squirm a bit. You probably weren't being singled out.
I think it would be a mistake to not rank a program based on what you described.

 

[DScully]

Scully,
Agree with above posters. I bet if you asked the interviewers how the interview went, they would have a much different answer than yours. It is common recently for PDs to ask a few probing questions that might make you squirm a bit. You probably weren't being singled out.
I think it would be a mistake to not rank a program based on what you described.

I cannot tell you guys enough how much I appreciate all of your inputs and stories...I feel much better after knowing what other people think. It is never too late to know I am wrong as long as I don't make the same mistake.

I think I'll still rank both programs (but of course, not on the top of my list for the same reason). If they want to probe, let them probe. I'll just have to assume that it isn't anything personal. Or even if it is, so be it. I'll survive.

Happy new year, everyone!

PS. I never really understand the reasoning behind these questions. I have got some probing questions, but the interviewers were able to frame them in such a way that it does not involve being rude. As a result, I actually enjoy these more challenging conversations. My idea is that you can be very hard-core but there is no need to be rude. Of course, this does not apply to residency, anyway...

 

[IN2B8R]

Thanks for all the replies...I do appreciate all the advice and suggestions.

Will continue to work on how to respond positively and calmly under stressful situations. I think I'll still have a lot to learn in residency!

DScully--do not frown on your interview experience. Odds are very good that what you were exposed to was very similar to what hundreds of other applicants were exposed to. What you have to realize is that there will be a light at the end of a long, dark tunnel that is called residency: you will work hard, be mentally and physically stressed, see incompetence and ignorance in many locations of your training institution, but also meet wonderful people who will inspire you and teach you to become a competent consultant. Fairness is not part of residency. In fact, you have better be able to stare un-fairness in the face, or else be bitter about many of the things that you will encounter in residency (the examples are too numerous to mention...). But when it is all said and done, there will come a day when you will be walking out of your training institution to never look back. And that, my friend, will be one of the best days of your life.👍

 

[DScully]

...but also meet wonderful people who will inspire you and teach you to become a competent consultant....

This wording reminds me very fondly of a recent program where the attendings are called consultants. 😉

I will keep your advice in mind. It is a very thoughtful and insightful post, one that I'll look back constantly throughout my residency. 👍

I agree with you totally - Fairness is irrelevant in residency just as it is in med school. Life isn't fair, and who do I think I am to demand fairness? But it is good to know...that there IS light at the end of tunnel.

 

[Gern Blansten]

PS. I never really understand the reasoning behind these questions. I have got some probing questions, but the interviewers were able to frame them in such a way that it does not involve being rude. As a result, I actually enjoy these more challenging conversations. My idea is that you can be very hard-core but there is no need to be rude. Of course, this does not apply to residency, anyway...

Some people have mastered the interviewing skills and some haven't. They don't really teach doctors how to interview people. Some learn it and some don't. Doesn't usually mean they are a bad doctor or person, just a different style.