Basic Science Grades

[HTxFrog]

I should be studying for my Epidemiology test that starts in ten minutes, but oh well. I had a quick question that maybe someone could help me with. I'm an MS1, and I'm interested in ophthalmology, and I was just wondering, if you were going to guess, what percentage of honors would you say that most succesful ophthalmology candidates have in basic science classes. Also, how much importance is placed on basic science grades as compared to LORs, clinical grades, Step 1 etc. Thanks for your help.

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[MAYOphtho]

I should be studying for my Epidemiology test that starts in ten minutes, but oh well. I had a quick question that maybe someone could help me with. I'm an MS1, and I'm interested in ophthalmology, and I was just wondering, if you were going to guess, what percentage of honors would you say that most succesful ophthalmology candidates have in basic science classes. Also, how much importance is placed on basic science grades as compared to LORs, clinical grades, Step 1 etc. Thanks for your help.

Of the things you listed, basic science grades tend to be by FAR the least important. Med school reputation, Step 1, clinical grades, LOR, and (sometimes) research is MUCH more important than basic science grades.

However, if something stands out (i.e. failing a class versus being #1 in your class) that will certainly help or hurt...otherwise, dont stress it. You must keep in mind that basic science grades factor into class rank and AOA status, which certainly does matter...but the basic science grades do not matter that much independent of the other factors.

 

[alleyesonme]

Of the things you listed, basic science grades tend to be by FAR the least important. Med school reputation, Step 1, clinical grades, LOR, and (sometimes) research is MUCH more important than basic science grades.

However, if something stands out (i.e. failing a class versus being #1 in your class) that will certainly help or hurt...otherwise, dont stress it. You must keep in mind that basic science grades factor into class rank and AOA status, which certainly does matter...but the basic science grades do not matter that much independent of the other factors.

I agree with the above, the actual grades your receive in each course does not matter, especially now that most schools have gone to a Pass/Fail system. However, your grasp of the material in 1st, and more importantly, 2nd year, will play a big part in how well you do on Step 1. As Mayo points out, remember that AOA selection takes into account all years. I know for my school, you had to be in the top quarter of the class to even be considered, which I think is the norm.

In the end, there are much more important factors: Step 1, clinical grades, LOR, and med school reputation. Followed by research, AOA, and other factors.

Good luck with that epi test!

 

[Corn Dog]

Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think basic science grades are important, especially at schools that use GPA system.

Suppose there's an applicant who did extremely well during the clinical yr (with all honors), but during 1st yr, he/she received a couple of sub-par grades from the basic science courses. If his/her school uses GPA system, this applicant will have sub-par cumulative GPA (despite superb 3rd yr GPA).

Is there a section on the application that asks for clinic year performance? I was told that there's only a section for cumulative GPA. If that's the case, then this applicant will unfairly be at a disadvantage due to his sub-par basic science grades. I would even assume that different programs might not even bother to look at the rest of his application (thus being "screened" just based on his cumulative GPA).

So I think basic science grades are still really important. What do you guys think?

 

[MAYOphtho]

Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but I think basic science grades are important, especially at schools that use GPA system.

Suppose there's an applicant who did extremely well during the clinical yr (with all honors), but during 1st yr, he/she received a couple of sub-par grades from the basic science courses. If his/her school uses GPA system, this applicant will have sub-par cumulative GPA (despite superb 3rd yr GPA).

Is there a section on the application that asks for clinic year performance? I was told that there's only a section for cumulative GPA. If that's the case, then this applicant will unfairly be at a disadvantage due to his sub-par basic science grades. I would even assume that different programs might not even bother to look at the rest of his application (thus being "screened" just based on his cumulative GPA).

So I think basic science grades are still really important. What do you guys think?

I can only answer based on the applications I've seen. When I see applicants from a school that does the GPA thing, I've noticed these transcripts show a cumulative GPA AS WELL AS a GPA listed at the end of each year (which is not cumulative, but only a score of that year). When we come across these applicants, we without a doubt look right to the Clinical Grades unless something about the Basic Science grades draws our eyes back up there.

In fact, we had an applicant that had a GPA decrease in each year (4.0 after MS1, 3.6 during MS2, then 3.2 in MS3) and we basically tossed the application. His transcript listed his class rank at the end of each year as well. So, even though his basic science grades were a 3.8 (top 8 in his class) his MS3 grades were so subpar that (1) he wasnt AOA and (2) we were no longer impressed by him. Again, this is just one situation, but I think it can be translated well.

Again, however the overall GPA (and AOA status) depends on all the grades as a whole...so dont ignore them...but do NOT focus your whole application on them.

 

[Corn Dog]

I can only answer based on the applications I've seen. When I see applicants from a school that does the GPA thing, I've noticed these transcripts show a cumulative GPA AS WELL AS a GPA listed at the end of each year (which is not cumulative, but only a score of that year). When we come across these applicants, we without a doubt look right to the Clinical Grades unless something about the Basic Science grades draws our eyes back up there.

In fact, we had an applicant that had a GPA decrease in each year (4.0 after MS1, 3.6 during MS2, then 3.2 in MS3) and we basically tossed the application. His transcript listed his class rank at the end of each year as well. So, even though his basic science grades were a 3.8 (top 8 in his class) his MS3 grades were so subpar that (1) he wasnt AOA and (2) we were no longer impressed by him. Again, this is just one situation, but I think it can be translated well.

Again, however the overall GPA (and AOA status) depends on all the grades as a whole...so dont ignore them...but do NOT focus your whole application on them.

But you don't look at the transcript for EVERY single applicant, do you? Meaning, don't you guys quickly skim through the application first and "screen" for applicants above a certain level first?

For example, if you have an applicant with 3.2 basic science GPA (say 2.8 1st yr and 3.6 second yr) but like a 3.9 clinical year GPA. Cumulative GPA will only be 3.4. As the pdf application only lists the GPA (so I am told), I was assuming that this particular applicant will be "screened" just based on his cumulative GPA before anyone gets to look at his transcript.

Along those lines, do you guys read the personal statement for every applicant? Or only of those who were "screened" first? I'm really curious.

 

[newapp]

i'll just say that i did not get any honors in my basic sciences except for pharmacology and a few in 3rd yr clerkships and i still matched... personality during interviews/away rotations i feel matters much more.... i had what i feel really strong letters cause i have a great work ethic and a easy to work with personality that residents and attendings saw which i felt helped.... just another side of the coin...

 

[JMK2005]

Out of curiosity... which med schools have grades/GPA these days? My guess would be that it's very few.

 

[HTxFrog]

Well the Epidemiology test went well despite my reading these forums before the test. Thanks for the responses. They were very helpful. About that last question, I can only speak for my school specifically, but I think most schools are pass, high pass, honors (like mine), or pass/fail. Someone more informed than me probably has a better answer to that though.