Baylor vs WashU vs Yale

[GoodEats]

I posted this up in Allo earlier, but I think the activity might be a little better here. Copied and pasted from over yonder:

I know these threads are old and tiresome, but I've hit a situation where I could really use some more voices to consider. I was pulled off the waitlist to both WashU and Yale on the 15th, and need to decide pretty soon which one to attend (if not Baylor, the lone school I had before the 15th). I think the toughest part about it right now is that my parents took their time with their tax stuff, and I don't think I'll have financial aid packages in hand before I need to make my decision. If anyone can shed light on the relative generosity of each school or a best estimate (I'm also a TX resident), that'd be really helpful.

A little about me: I'm real easy-going and will be happy wherever I go. I did nix Michigan when faced with UMich vs Baylor b/c of cold and cost, though. I enjoy being physically active, and love Austin (my current residence) for it. Career-wise, not too sure what I want to do. I have always been interested in peds, anesthesiology, and neuro/behavioral stuff. I also have a girlfriend (fairly serious) who is looking to do occupational therapy, and that's something to consider.

I guess my biggest questions would be about relative costs, happiness of students, educational/curriculum comments, location comments, etc. Thanks for any light you guys could help shed on my situation.

Oh, and I grew up in Houston my whole life, school in Austin, so I'd love to get out of state for a while to live elsewhere. I think if accepted to only WashU or Yale on the 15th, I think it's a 90% chance I go there over Baylor. But now with 3 in the mix....WashU and Yale might cancel each other out like Kobe and LeBron, and Steve Nash (Baylor) might eke it out. Or maybe not. Eek...I'm definitely in need of help....

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GoodEats]

Oh, and the other thread can be found here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=284145

In case you wanted to see what they had to say on that board or see how the poll is going over there...

 

[JohnHolmes]

I posted this up in Allo earlier, but I think the activity might be a little better here. Copied and pasted from over yonder:

I know these threads are old and tiresome, but I've hit a situation where I could really use some more voices to consider. I was pulled off the waitlist to both WashU and Yale on the 15th, and need to decide pretty soon which one to attend (if not Baylor, the lone school I had before the 15th). I think the toughest part about it right now is that my parents took their time with their tax stuff, and I don't think I'll have financial aid packages in hand before I need to make my decision. If anyone can shed light on the relative generosity of each school or a best estimate (I'm also a TX resident), that'd be really helpful.

A little about me: I'm real easy-going and will be happy wherever I go. I did nix Michigan when faced with UMich vs Baylor b/c of cold and cost, though. I enjoy being physically active, and love Austin (my current residence) for it. Career-wise, not too sure what I want to do. I have always been interested in peds, anesthesiology, and neuro/behavioral stuff. I also have a girlfriend (fairly serious) who is looking to do occupational therapy, and that's something to consider.

I guess my biggest questions would be about relative costs, happiness of students, educational/curriculum comments, location comments, etc. Thanks for any light you guys could help shed on my situation.

Oh, and I grew up in Houston my whole life, school in Austin, so I'd love to get out of state for a while to live elsewhere. I think if accepted to only WashU or Yale on the 15th, I think it's a 90% chance I go there over Baylor. But now with 3 in the mix....WashU and Yale might cancel each other out like Kobe and LeBron, and Steve Nash (Baylor) might eke it out. Or maybe not. Eek...I'm definitely in need of help....

Whatever choice you make, you can't go wrong. It's cheesy but true.

WashU has a nice hospital in Barnes, and a very strong medicine program, along with a few other specialties.

Yale matches very well, has a great curriculum, very laid back, but is very cold much like Michigan. They have a nice, but not breath-taking hospital.

The cost of attendance is probably comparable for the schools. WashU would likely be a more intensive environment, as the kids there are top of the line academically, and do well in standardized test taking abilities, but not necessarily the most sociable people in the world.

The kids at Yale are great, laid back, and go with the flow. People there love it, and are not stressed out. The system seems to work for those who choose it, but some can't survive without grades, as they feel they would "let themselves go"

Baylor is a wonderful choice, and you would save some cash. I try not to let economic decisions factor in too much as you will make a heap of cash as a doctor regardless.

JH

 

[Inuyasha]

I second JohnHolmes' opinion/s. Can't add much else to that.

But, oddly enough, I definitively voted for Yale. Of the three, I was most impressed by the faculty there-- they're brilliant AND inspiring.

 

[Shredder]

Inuyasha search for the Anime thread and post! Ah Goodeats, you've finally given into the school poll hehe. WashU! Nice job

WashU should have a much lower cost of living compared to Yale, for one. Also I've never fancied Yale's strange curriculum/grading, it's why I didn't apply. WashU is just for sure the strongest med school of all of these, I'm uncertain why Yale is enjoying such popularity.

 

[mountainhare]

Inuyasha search for the Anime thread and post! Ah Goodeats, you've finally given into the school poll hehe. WashU! Nice job

WashU should have a much lower cost of living compared to Yale, for one. Also I've never fancied Yale's strange curriculum/grading, it's why I didn't apply. WashU is just for sure the strongest med school of all of these, I'm uncertain why Yale is enjoying such popularity.

It's 'cause people at Yale just seem so damn happy. Both their first and second years are true pass-fail, they have the opportunity to take classes and do research at the amazing non-med-school parts of Yale (the public-health school, the peerlessly awesome law school, etc.), etc. Plus, many people favor living in the East Coast megalopolis (I learned that awesome word on wikipedia.com), 'cause so many other big cities are just a train ride or bus ride away, which is great for people who have a support network somewhere on the East Coast. It would seem that the unique curriculum attracts quirky and offbeat students with lives outside the classroom, which might be viewed as a plus as well. That being said, the things that make Yale attractive to so many voters are not necessarily the sort of things that would make everybody happy. Like all polls, the OP should take this poll with a grain of salt and look into his own heart for answers, blah blah blah.

God, I need to stop posting on SDN so much. I don't know what's wrong with me.

 

[Gut Shot]

Tough call, but these are the problems you want to have.

I'm a little biased, but I'll make a plug for Baylor. For what it's worth, it just moved up the rankings (#10 overall, #11 in primary care), it's inexpensive (coming from someone with >100K in debt that's nothing to sneeze at), it's certainly warm, the cost of living is relatively low, and >90% of the med students who have rotated on my service are both smart and cool. There's been an annoying freak or two, but they're ultimately unavoidable.

For the girl, there is an OT program through TWU. One of my fellow residents' wife is an OT and trained there.

Finally, a word about money. Pre-meds are focused on gaining admission, so the mantra is not to worry about cost. If you hang around the residency forums the attitude changes to "yes, definitely worry about cost!" Forty years from now your loans will be paid off no matter which route you choose; how painful the process will be depends on the decision you make now.

And no, not all doctors will make a heap of cash. In other words, if you're going to hamstring yourself with a mountain of debt, make sure there's a damn good reason to do so.

 

[SeventhSon]

go yale. you will love your life, although people at washU seemed really happy too.

 

[GoodEats]

Again, my latest post from the Allo board:

Thanks for all the help so far...I think most of the main points have been covered nicely by everyone, and in the end it's going to come down to how much weighting I give to each one. WashU has asked for a decision by Tuesday (as specified on the paperwork...tried calling on Friday to talk but I think they were closed because of graduation), my deposit's already in at Baylor, and Yale has been characteristically nice and flexible asking that I get back to them in a reasonable amount of time, preferably by the end of next week, and I promised a hard deadline by the end of the month because I fly out of the country on the 1st. And I apparently love really long sentences.

So I think my plan will be to call up each of the schools tomorrow and ask if it's ok I do this: WashU, do I neeed to pay that deposit? Can I have an extension until the end of the month at the very latest (really, once I get my package)? If not, is it ok to put in my deposit as a sign of high interest and leave my deposit at Baylor? If that's the case, I'll ask each of the schools to be sure this is kosher with them, and then I'll proceed in waiting for my packages to come in. It's difficult because as explained above Yale can come up with surprisngly generous offers, and I think WashU's is that they split your expected need in half (post-subsidized Staffords) and give you that amount in grants. My parents are upper-middle class, I think, with one child entering as a college freshman next year. Not sure how that will play out yet.

Comments/suggestions?

Oh, and I agree that condos in Houston are cheap and easy. As for the girlfriend, I think she's attracted to the TWU and WashU OT schools, but there's not much in the Yale area. As a result she waffles between putting Yale last and Yale first because of all the reasons above. I think I'll try and decide tonight just what amount of money would be worth going to each institution over Baylor, and then use that as a starting point when my packages come in.

Thanks again for all the help so far!

 

[GoodEats]

Copied and pasted once again. Not to say I don't love you guys...I promise I'll type it in here next time and paste over there. Cheers...

Just wanted to update: called each of the financial aid offices and also Dr. Dodson at WashU (Yale was closedish for graduation). Everybody everywhere has been nice, and those at Yale and WashU especially so. Deans Dodson and Silverman have both been fantastically nice, and are strong endorsements for the schools. Basically, I have asked for extensions at those schools until I have my finaid packages in hand, which should be some time by the end of the week. Once that happens, I should have a decision for them within 24 hours, no problem. I'm leaning towards Yale or WashU, though if Baylor comes up with a scholarship somehow then it would be tough to turn down. As it stands, though, the sticker price says Baylor will cost about 140k, WashU 220k, and Yale 240k. For 50k or less of a difference, I go with WashU or Yale without a doubt. As the gap grows wider I become more and more reluctant, but I can see myself still going out of state for.....mmm....80k difference. I'll try and keep you guys updated if you're interested, or at least post an update when I make my final decision.

Interesting breakdown: on Allo, Yale wins 42% to WashU 29% to Baylor 29%. On Pre-Allo, Yale wins 55% to 20% to 25%. I wonder if I took this to one of the older boards if Baylor or WashU would overcome Yale for the top spot as what's important changes as you get older.

 

[lmnop]

baylor is definitely less than 100,000 for instate!! Tuition + fees and health insurance is <12,000 so even w/a very nice lifestyle, I don't see why you think baylor will be so much.

 

[GoodEats]

I was basing it off of this webpage: http://www.bcm.edu/osa/osa-financial.html

Total for tuition/fees/books/living for each of the 4 yrs: 35k + 31k + 32k + 29k = 127k

Still halfish of Yale sticker price-wise, but not <100k. I plan on sitting down and asking each of the advisors what it really comes out to in the end, basically asking "if I pay this off in 10 years, how much am I paying per month?" I think putting it in those terms will make it a little more real and it will make more concrete sense.

 

[GoodEats]

I was a little high with that previous 140k guess, though.

 

[TypeA]

Judging from the things you have said...I would go with Baylor. But, put personal life, cost, weather, etc aside...I'd go Yale.

 

[EmoryMD]

I was a little high with that previous 140k guess, though.

Dude, Baylor tuition is 6K a year (since you're in-state...all med school tuition is the same). Seriously, Baylor is definitely the best top 50 value. Go to Baylor. Yale is so slack. They have optional, anonymous tests. Everyone at Baylor loves it. (I spent 8 weeks there last summer.) It's a deal. You won't have a huge debt. They have a ridiculously high average board score. It's relaxed. You won't be far from Austin. St. Louis and New Haven both suck. Baylor all the way. You won't regret it. And WashU is really cut-throat. Baylor is a lot more relaxed.

 

[sen]

WashU and Yale were two of the four schools that I considered at the end of the day (I attended re-visit at both schools). I also interviewed at Baylor and withdrew my application from the moment I was accepted to WashU. With that information, these are my thoughts:

Yale: I would personally go to Yale of these choices. First off, Yale is great becasue they have relatively little class time, which combined with the "Yale System" (and don't forget Pass/Fail, no rakings, no AOA until after residency!!), allows students to be really involved in things other than studying. STudents were doing really fascinating research projects (and having a fair amount of time to do them) and getting involved w/really great extracurriculars (like the guy I stayed with was one of the people running their free clinic, I met another girl who was involved on the school's equivalent of the IRB, there was another girl who was on the whole university's safety committee, there were people taking classes at the dance, art, theatre etc schools, people taking classes at the huge gym etc). The one university concept of Yale is a HUGE draw for me over your other schools, as this raelly gives tons of academic adn social opportunities (classes in all the other schools, lots of pan-grad student events, largest gym in the world (I think), and just over all TONS of academic and personal connectinos you'd have by being @ Yale). The Yale students all seemed genuinely happy to me and I thought everyone who I met there was extremely social and friendly. Both the people in the first year and in the incoming class were people I would want to spend four years with. The administration also seemed to really care about the students and value their input. The proximity to NYC would also be another draw to me, and a lot of people were going into NYC pretty often from yale, as well as the proximity to other east coast cities. Also, I personally really liked New Haven, and would say that in my view it's the best place to live of your options. The Med School is very convient to most of New Haven (and a really nice area right around the school), and tons of great restaurants etc in the city, as well as obvoiusly a great number of other grad students @ Yale who could be the basis of your social life. Yale also has a fantastic match list, and I personally would say its better than WashU or Baylor (depends on what is importnat to you, but they 've got a tone ofp eople at the top med cetners on the east coast/new england). However, I ultimately chose not to go to Yale becuase I didn't think the Yale-New Haven hosptial had the best clinical exposure (WashU and Baylor probably trump Yale there), I didn't like the fact that there was tremendous pressure to take a fifth year to take advantage of Yale, and because I thought there were some people for whom the extracurriculars/research were making med school the back burner (I know its a fine line, but it is a distinctino between being in med school and being involved, or being involved and also being in med school).

WashU: I was very imprssed by the facilities of WashU and Barnes-Jewish is obviously an amazing place, as is St. Louis Children's etc. Obviously tons of resaerch, especially clinical. You would get a fantastic eductaion there, and the area right around the med school is veyr nice and you can get really great apartments for very cheap. HOwever, I was not a big fan of St. Louis, which I didn't think had much character or young professionals. But my biggest concern w/WahsU was hte amount of class that they had, as they have something to do class wise until amost 5 pm everyday, and sometimes they are busy until even later, which I think is abig factor to consider. I also thought that there were not very many particularly active student groups @ WashU, due to studetns being very academic. I also got the awkward/anti-social vibe from more than a few students there. I also wans't as impressed w/their match list as Yale's.

Baylor: Baylor was my only negative interview experience. This is largely due to the fact that I had a very agressive, confrontational interviewer who tried to get into a political debate with me, although it was more of a my way or the highway conversation. I understand that you shouldn't let one person turn you off, but its hard not to, especially if its the one faculty member that you have the most interaction with from that school. I was pretty upsed after that interview and so it was hard to farily judge the school after that, but I did get the very competitive vibe from the studetns at Baylor. The TMC is obiviously amazing, the facilities of Baylor were great and they've got gerat resaerch. Houston is a large, growing, modern city, which has its advantages and disadvantages (I'd still rather live in new haven). But after my interview, I would never have considered Baylor over the other two schools.

Good luck and PM me if you have any other specific questions.

 

[Hassler]

WashU and Yale were two of the four schools that I considered at the end of the day (I attended re-visit at both schools). I also interviewed at Baylor and withdrew my application from the moment I was accepted to WashU. With that information, these are my thoughts:

Yale: I would personally go to Yale of these choices. First off, Yale is great becasue they have relatively little class time, which combined with the "Yale System" (and don't forget Pass/Fail, no rakings, no AOA until after residency!!), allows students to be really involved in things other than studying. STudents were doing really fascinating research projects (and having a fair amount of time to do them) and getting involved w/really great extracurriculars (like the guy I stayed with was one of the people running their free clinic, I met another girl who was involved on the school's equivalent of the IRB, there was another girl who was on the whole university's safety committee, there were people taking classes at the dance, art, theatre etc schools, people taking classes at the huge gym etc). The one university concept of Yale is a HUGE draw for me over your other schools, as this raelly gives tons of academic adn social opportunities (classes in all the other schools, lots of pan-grad student events, largest gym in the world (I think), and just over all TONS of academic and personal connectinos you'd have by being @ Yale). The Yale students all seemed genuinely happy to me and I thought everyone who I met there was extremely social and friendly. Both the people in the first year and in the incoming class were people I would want to spend four years with. The administration also seemed to really care about the students and value their input. The proximity to NYC would also be another draw to me, and a lot of people were going into NYC pretty often from yale, as well as the proximity to other east coast cities. Also, I personally really liked New Haven, and would say that in my view it's the best place to live of your options. The Med School is very convient to most of New Haven (and a really nice area right around the school), and tons of great restaurants etc in the city, as well as obvoiusly a great number of other grad students @ Yale who could be the basis of your social life. Yale also has a fantastic match list, and I personally would say its better than WashU or Baylor (depends on what is importnat to you, but they 've got a tone ofp eople at the top med cetners on the east coast/new england). However, I ultimately chose not to go to Yale becuase I didn't think the Yale-New Haven hosptial had the best clinical exposure (WashU and Baylor probably trump Yale there), I didn't like the fact that there was tremendous pressure to take a fifth year to take advantage of Yale, and because I thought there were some people for whom the extracurriculars/research were making med school the back burner (I know its a fine line, but it is a distinctino between being in med school and being involved, or being involved and also being in med school).

WashU: I was very imprssed by the facilities of WashU and Barnes-Jewish is obviously an amazing place, as is St. Louis Children's etc. Obviously tons of resaerch, especially clinical. You would get a fantastic eductaion there, and the area right around the med school is veyr nice and you can get really great apartments for very cheap. HOwever, I was not a big fan of St. Louis, which I didn't think had much character or young professionals. But my biggest concern w/WahsU was hte amount of class that they had, as they have something to do class wise until amost 5 pm everyday, and sometimes they are busy until even later, which I think is abig factor to consider. I also thought that there were not very many particularly active student groups @ WashU, due to studetns being very academic. I also got the awkward/anti-social vibe from more than a few students there. I also wans't as impressed w/their match list as Yale's.

Baylor: Baylor was my only negative interview experience. This is largely due to the fact that I had a very agressive, confrontational interviewer who tried to get into a political debate with me, although it was more of a my way or the highway conversation. I understand that you shouldn't let one person turn you off, but its hard not to, especially if its the one faculty member that you have the most interaction with from that school. I was pretty upsed after that interview and so it was hard to farily judge the school after that, but I did get the very competitive vibe from the studetns at Baylor. The TMC is obiviously amazing, the facilities of Baylor were great and they've got gerat resaerch. Houston is a large, growing, modern city, which has its advantages and disadvantages (I'd still rather live in new haven). But after my interview, I would never have considered Baylor over the other two schools.

Good luck and PM me if you have any other specific questions.

WOW, what a description!!!

 

[doctordoctor123]

i don't understand why you withdrew from umich due to cold weather and finances when washU and yale both pose the same issues?

 

[GoodEats]

Dang, typed out a long entry and then got disconnected. Sorry if there're any gaps in what I say.

About UMich, I loved the place, the staff was nice, and the students seemed like a good bunch, but they offered me $336/yr of grants, and the coldness and snow there is on a whole 'nother level. The AVERAGE low at one point in January dips down to around 9 degrees, whereas St Louis and New Haven get down average-wise to 20-22 (used the site from the UMich vs WashU thread). Money-wise, I think WashU and Yale both are likely to end up cheaper for me than Michigan would've been, and the strengths of WashU and Yale as people have described above are just so outstanding that I could not toss aside either school until I can see how much debt we're actually talking about.

Sen, thank you for the excellent post. I think I agree with most everything, the only big difference being my experience with Baylor. My second interviewer was very nice, and I was her last interviewee, so we had a chance to really talk for an extra half hour or so. The students I didn't get a chance to really get to know--wish I would've gone to Two Rows the night before and stayed with a student host. C'est la vie, I s'pose.

Anyways, thanks for all the replies and the PM's! I'm really taking to heart all of this, and I think I will have a tough decision when all is said and done (though I don't expect anyone's pity, not with this kind of problem). Thanks thanks thanks, and I'll be back...

 

[GoodEats]

Ok, long story short (as I am in China at the moment, and should be out seeing the sights), I chose Baylor at first, but sent a very regretful declination to WashU, citing cost as the overriding factor. They were kind enough to return the favor with a generous scholarship to equalize the cost with staying in state, so I am headed to WashU in the fall! Super excited, and looking forward to starting in the fall!

Also, Yale was just as expensive as WashU was initially, and family/girlfriend factors were very against choosing Yale. (WashU's OT program is excellent, and even provides for a pediatric focus which is what my girlfriend would like to do.) Lots of factors went into it in the end, and WashU won out big...when I have more time to enumerate all the factors I will in case anyone needs to make a similar decision in the future. Thanks all, and see you fellow WashU'ers in the fall!

 

[Monette]

Ok, long story short (as I am in China at the moment, and should be out seeing the sights), I chose Baylor at first, but sent a very regretful declination to WashU, citing cost as the overriding factor. They were kind enough to return the favor with a generous scholarship to equalize the cost with staying in state, so I am headed to WashU in the fall! Super excited, and looking forward to starting in the fall!

Wow, maybe I'm uninformed but I was under the impression that it was atypical for a medical school to offer a scholarship after a candidate turns them down - even if they do so in a gracious manner! They must have *really* liked you. And I mean REALLY liked you! That's awesome! Congrats on the great acceptances and good luck at Wash U!

Monette

 

[Centinel]

Wow, maybe I'm uninformed but I was under the impression that it was atypical for a medical school to offer a scholarship after a candidate turns them down - even if they do so in a gracious manner! They must have *really* liked you. And I mean REALLY liked you! That's awesome! Congrats on the great acceptances and good luck at Wash U!

Monette

Actually, not that atypical. You'd be surprised at how willing they are to use money to protect their yield... err... 'recruit good students'.